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Posted: 4/9/2002 8:02:54 AM EDT
OK I pretty much know how to lead a target from a static position. However, what if both you and the target are moving? Scenario: You are in a car going north. Your target is in a car going north. You are neck and neck going about 40MPH. 30yds apart. You are using a 55gr bullet in an AR, 16inch barrel with a 1:7 twist. How would you lead your target in this scenario? What is the formula?
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:19:37 AM EDT
Instinct. It's a hit every time.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:21:36 AM EDT
Yeah, I suppose. Too bad I don't know of a target range where I can practice this.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:26:12 AM EDT
Assuming no wind and that you both stay at the same speed you should not have to lead them, your motion relative to the other vehicle is basically zero. But since you have a cross wind of 40 mph you need to adjust your windage or lead him enough to correct for the wind.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:28:21 AM EDT
I'm tempted every minute of every day while I'm on the road. But you know what it's like; you lived here. I figure with 30 rounds going about 3200 fps, one or two of them are bound to hit something important (i.e. neck, brain pan, face)!
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:33:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: Assuming no wind and that you both stay at the same speed you should not have to lead them, your motion relative to the other vehicle is basically zero. But since you have a cross wind of 40 mph you need to adjust your windage or lead him enough to correct for the wind.
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Since the round is traveling in a straight line and the target is moving forward. Wouldn't there be some sort of a perceived curving effect?
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:42:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 8:43:30 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Sorry I have very little to add here except to say that it's relatively easy to rig moving targets at the range. Buy ya a cheap remote controlled car and attach a target to the top of it, have buddy operate it while u shoot, then you do the same for him (works best if you place a board track down so vehicle doesn't bounce and travels perpendicular to LOS). And second, don't mean to rain on your parade, but firing a weapon from your vehicle on a roadway in Texas is [b]against the LAW[/b], whether your moving or stationary. Mike
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:53:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 8:55:59 AM EDT by JIMBEAM]
Originally Posted By Necromancer:
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: Assuming no wind and that you both stay at the same speed you should not have to lead them, your motion relative to the other vehicle is basically zero. But since you have a cross wind of 40 mph you need to adjust your windage or lead him enough to correct for the wind.
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Since the round is traveling in a straight line and the target is moving forward. Wouldn't there be some sort of a perceived curving effect?
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No when the bullet leaves the barrel it wll be traveling ~ 2300ft/sec toward the target and 40 mph to the north. The only thing that will change it's movement north is the 40 mph cross wind. Example If a plane releases a gravity bomb. At the time of release the bomb has the same forward speed as the plane. If you assume no wind resistance and if the plane stays at the same speed and course the bomb will stay directly beneath the plane as it falls away. So the bomb will hit the ground directly beneath the plane.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:22:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 9:23:35 AM EDT by Necromancer]
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: Example If a plane releases a gravity bomb. At the time of release the bomb has the same forward speed as the plane. If you assume no wind resistance and if the plane stays at the same speed and course the bomb will stay directly beneath the plane as it falls away. So the bomb will hit the ground directly beneath the plane.
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Yes but the ground is not moving. If the ground was moving, it will not be there. It will be where the plane is after it released the bomb. If both are moving at the same speed. Much like shooting a moving car(C1) while you are in a moving car(C2). You aim at point A but by the time the bullet gets there, the car is at point B. So you would need to aim at point B, but how far ahead is point B? -------C1(pt A)--(pt B)----- -------aim/fire -------C2(pt A)--(pt B)------
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:35:33 AM EDT
Suppose the other car accelerates to 80 mph, hits a ramp, and flies into the air at a 25 degree angle. And at the same moment, you swerve to avoid an armadillo, flip your car, and are flung out the window at a 60 degree angle, tumbling end over end. 1) Should you change magazines in mid air if you have one on your belt loaded with 62gr M855? 2) If a flock of migratory waterfowl is passing behind the flying car, how large of a soft money donation will you have to make to the DNC to get away with taking the shot? 3) When you see this exact same sequence of events three years from now in a John Woo movie, can you sue him for copyright infringement? [:\]
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:44:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 11:59:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DamageInc: I'm tempted every minute of every day while I'm on the road. But you know what it's like; you lived here. I figure with 30 rounds going about 3200 fps, one or two of them are bound to hit something important (i.e. neck, brain pan, face)!
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HEHEHE, I guess I should go back and try it out on the 5 or 405fwy one of these days.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 10:15:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Necromancer: You are in a car going north. Your target is in a car going north. You are neck and neck going about 40MPH. 30yds apart. You are using a 55gr bullet in an AR, 16inch barrel with a 1:7 twist. How would you lead your target in this scenario? What is the formula?
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There is no formula. You could have the same scenario anywhere there was a 40 mph crosswind. Imagine you are on a giant flatbed trailer that is being pulled along the highway at 40 mph. You dont need to lead becasue you are both moving in the same direction with the same speed. If you were moving in different directions though, that gets tricky. SP
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 2:58:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: Suppose the other car accelerates to 80 mph, hits a ramp, and flies into the air at a 25 degree angle. And at the same moment, you swerve to avoid an armadillo, flip your car, and are flung out the window at a 60 degree angle, tumbling end over end. 1) Should you change magazines in mid air if you have one on your belt loaded with 62gr M855? 2) If a flock of migratory waterfowl is passing behind the flying car, how large of a soft money donation will you have to make to the DNC to get away with taking the shot? 3) When you see this exact same sequence of events three years from now in a John Woo movie, can you sue him for copyright infringement? [:\]
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Funny Sheet mayne.....
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:13:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2002 4:32:24 AM EDT by ARndog]
Imagine that you are in a car traveling at 40 mph and you are trying to hit a stationary target. Since you are moving at 40 mph you are going to have to lead the target in the opposite direction of that in which you are moving. Now imagine the target is moving with you...this eliminates the need to lead the target because the target is also moving at 40mph
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:51:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ARndog: Imagine that you are in a car traveling at 40 mph and you are trying to hit a stationary target. Since you are moving at 40 mph you are going to have to lead the target in the opposite direction of that in which you are moving.
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Use negative lead. BTW lead for walking target at 100 yards is 1/2 body width. For running target 1 1/2 body width. For fast running target 2 1/2 body width. Multiply for distances over or under 100 yards.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:59:42 AM EDT
I drew a picture but I don't know where to host it...I could e-mail it to someone quick. It isn't great but it might help.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 5:25:19 AM EDT
Put on full auto and "Spray and Pray".
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 5:43:41 AM EDT
The only thing I know about leading targets is that you just don't lead women and children as much.z
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 6:12:36 AM EDT
Let me know if this works... [img]http://photos.msn.com/imageserver/image.aspx?Image=*EtEZjHm6cqkzjU12Hh2VD9YLBOv3FnxzSY7DAT7jD6xq­F55rSVdNlXPuv6WA7jFWqTxm*jRUaJKbC68Mcg5iDhZ6u­!Y!aU2M3t2etZ0DetSLbHd!8fRXZFoCMZCHdOi[/img]
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 7:17:58 AM EDT
ARNDog It may be clearer if you show the velocities and how they result it the path of the bullet. ~3000 ft/sec toward the car and 40 mph toward the north result in the bullets flight path.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 7:33:40 AM EDT
JIMBEAM this wasn't meant to be accurate, I was just exaggerating how the bullet flies and where you should aim. besides I am tired and I don't remember much from my physics class...I think this would be a vector problem or something like that. Once again I just meant for this to be approximate (I didn't even show the 40mph crosswind) AR_Rifle was right, if all else fails...accuracy by volume. [heavy]
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