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Posted: 10/11/2019 9:37:04 AM EDT
Today, I (36m) attempted to purchase a new handgun from my local firearm dealer in Virginia. The background check was taking a while so we left for a bit.

When we returned, five state police were waiting for me. I had no idea why. I was arrested and charged with falsifying information on the application (felony) and was charged with attempting to purchase a firearm after being involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital (misdemeanor).

It turns out, they are claiming that I was under a mental health temporary detention order in 1999 in Pennsylvania when I was 15 or 16. I remember having touble coping with my parents divorce back then and was taken by my mom for a psychiatric evaluation after I got in some trouble at school. However, I was unaware that this was involuntary. It wasn't like law enforcement forced me to go there. I was a kid and barely remember all of the details. It was over 20 years ago and just now coming up.

So, when asked that question on the form, I said "no" because I believed that to be true. This also made no sense because I served in the Marine Corps Reserves from 2001 to 2008 and nothing was uncovered by the FBI investigation. Also, I have held a concealed weapons permit in my state in the past and have purchased numerous firearms before.

So, I was shocked when I was arrested for this. I thought I was being honest on the form as I have in the past.  The police told me the reason I never had a problem before was because this incident from 1999 didn't make it into the federal database until 2013. I was totally unaware. The last firearm I tried to purchase was prior to 2013.

I have Been honorably discharged from the Marines and have always been a gainfully employed, law abiding citizen. Now, I will have to pay thousands of dollars to a lawyer to try to fix this. Then I have another battle getting my 2nd amendment rights restored...rights I never knew I lost. I am so scared that my life could be ruined over this.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 9:39:47 AM EDT
Contact these folks:  https://www.vcdl.org/

Also, @NoloContendere, any suggestions for this guy?
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 9:43:12 AM EDT
The vast majority of places never forwarded mental health records to NICS until somewhat recently with all the renewed interest in gun control BS.

Fucking sucks and I hope you can get this squared away without too many out of pocket expenses.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 9:50:00 AM EDT
That's crazy. I thought records of minors were sealed, at least criminal records. How long before a fight in school at 15 y/o is domestic violence 20 years later? Or a trip to the guidance counselor is a mental health intervention?
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 9:50:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:01:44 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I'm not licensed in VA, but there was a federal law passed in 2008 if I recall correctly to assist in clearing up mental health prohibitors but the state has to adopt certain procedures to comply.  I am unaware if VA has done this, but it isn't something that should be too difficult to fix.  I would recommend finding an attorney in VA that could help with cleaning up the records and defending against that charge.
View Quote
I'm VA licensed, but don't practice firearms law.

I think you're maybe referring to the NICS Improvement Act of 2007?  I remember the VA Gov. also signed an EO back in 2007 or 2008 after the VA Tech shooting relating to mental health records.

OP, contact the VCDL at the link I posted above.  They'll have the knowledge and can recommend a good VA attorney.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:09:35 AM EDT
dang, I got sent to the office a bunch in the eighth grade and they tried to make me take pills for my 'unruly behavior'. I bet I'm next. Jeez what a mess.

Something that happened (beyond his control no less), when he was a minor is now being held against him, a Marine? That's pathetic.

Edit, I didn't take those pills, and I wasn't admitted anywhere for anything....Mr. ATF man.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:31:36 AM EDT
Why does he type misdemeanor next to psych commitment. Baker acts are not crimes and we do not report them in arrest records.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:32:21 AM EDT
thanks mom
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:33:17 AM EDT
Interesting 1st post
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:33:50 AM EDT
When the government is big enough, everyone is a felon.  Veterans getting a disability for PTSD?  No guns for u.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:41:54 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Interesting 1st post
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Other screen name??
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:45:01 AM EDT
Quoted:
Why does he type misdemeanor next to psych commitment. Baker acts are not crimes and we do not report them in arrest records.
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Because according to VA state law, I'm not legally allowed to purchase a firearm if I was involuntarily held by a psychiatric institution as they are claiming. Trying to buy a gun in that situation is a misdemeanor in this state.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:45:42 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting 1st post
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Other screen name??
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No, I was referred here by a Reddit sub.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:49:42 AM EDT
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Quoted:
No, I was referred here by a Reddit sub.
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Welcome aboard the crazy train? Just kidding this is a great site for gun enthusiast. Lot's of diverse people. You will get some bad advice and some great advice.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:52:25 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Welcome aboard the crazy train? Just kidding this is a great site for gun enthusiast. Lot's of diverse people. You will get some bad advice and some great advice.
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Thank you sir and thank you to everyone else for the helpful comments and tips.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:54:24 AM EDT
Did they go to your house and take your guns? Or did they just cuff you and explain the issue then release you?
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:54:56 AM EDT
Wow
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:58:43 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Did they go to your house and take your guns? Or did they just cuff you and explain the issue then release you?
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They cuffed me, took me to jail, then released me. My guns are at my father's house until this gets resolved. Good thing I still have my Louisville Slugger I guess.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 11:00:52 AM EDT
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Quoted:

I'm VA licensed, but don't practice firearms law.

I think you're maybe referring to the NICS Improvement Act of 2007?  I remember the VA Gov. also signed an EO back in 2007 or 2008 after the VA Tech shooting relating to mental health records.

OP, contact the VCDL at the link I posted above.  They'll have the knowledge and can recommend a good VA attorney.
View Quote
Thanks! Will do!
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 11:10:17 AM EDT
Thats fucked. The Red Flag Laws, are just the tip of the ice berg.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 12:27:44 PM EDT
John Pierce is theguy you want to talk to for Virginia gun issues. Great guy and specializes in this sort of thing.
https://johnpierceesq.com/
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 12:46:44 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
John Pierce is theguy you want to talk to for Virginia gun issues. Great guy and specializes in this sort of thing.
https://johnpierceesq.com/
View Quote
I just got off the phone with Mr. Pierce. Thank you!
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 12:51:58 PM EDT
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Quoted:

I just got off the phone with Mr. Pierce. Thank you!
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Link Posted: 10/11/2019 1:00:53 PM EDT
Good luck
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 1:02:16 PM EDT
Keep us updated please
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 1:12:57 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Keep us updated please
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I certainly will even though it will be a drawn out process. I am to be arraigned in Hanover on October 22. I will then get a subsequent hearing date
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 1:19:36 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Keep us updated please
View Quote
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 1:21:22 PM EDT
Thought this was brought up already that juvenile records are sealed?

ETA: See you are getting traction OP. Welcome, take no offense to anyone here. We are all probably Baker Acts...
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 1:36:16 PM EDT
Quoted:
Today, I (36m) attempted to purchase a new handgun from my local firearm dealer in Virginia. The background check was taking a while so we left for a bit.

When we returned, five state police were waiting for me. I had no idea why. I was arrested and charged with falsifying information on the application (felony) and was charged with attempting to purchase a firearm after being involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital (misdemeanor).

It turns out, they are claiming that I was under a mental health temporary detention order in 1999 in Pennsylvania when I was 15 or 16. I remember having touble coping with my parents divorce back then and was taken by my mom for a psychiatric evaluation after I got in some trouble at school. However, I was unaware that this was involuntary. It wasn't like law enforcement forced me to go there. I was a kid and barely remember all of the details. It was over 20 years ago and just now coming up.

So, when asked that question on the form, I said "no" because I believed that to be true. This also made no sense because I served in the Marine Corps Reserves from 2001 to 2008 and nothing was uncovered by the FBI investigation. Also, I have held a concealed weapons permit in my state in the past and have purchased numerous firearms before.

So, I was shocked when I was arrested for this. I thought I was being honest on the form as I have in the past.  The police told me the reason I never had a problem before was because this incident from 1999 didn't make it into the federal database until 2013. I was totally unaware. The last firearm I tried to purchase was prior to 2013.

I have Been honorably discharged from the Marines and have always been a gainfully employed, law abiding citizen. Now, I will have to pay thousands of dollars to a lawyer to try to fix this. Then I have another battle getting my 2nd amendment rights restored...rights I never knew I lost. I am so scared that my life could be ruined over this.
View Quote
80 percent AR's and Glocks.

Don't need the mans permission Devil Dog.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 1:38:08 PM EDT
So much for the " Police will not obey". Bull fucking shit.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 2:12:26 PM EDT
Following. This is the type of shit I see our state ag pulling in the near future.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 2:26:39 PM EDT
Tagging for updates op. Welcome aboard and good luck to you.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 2:51:27 PM EDT
I'm a little surprised that CT isn't way out in front on this kind of shit.

Good luck, OP.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 6:59:00 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Thought this was brought up already that juvenile records are sealed?

ETA: See you are getting traction OP. Welcome, take no offense to anyone here. We are all probably Baker Acts...
View Quote
Thanks! It is my understanding that juvenile criminal records are sealed, however, any Baker Act stays on your record as long as you were older than 14 when it happened. It sucks, I was just a kid going through a rough spot due to my parents getting divorced. I didn't know it was involuntary treatment. Hell, I repressed most of those memories in the first place. Sad times we live in.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 8:05:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Thanks! It is my understanding that juvenile criminal records are sealed, however, any Baker Act stays on your record as long as you were older than 14 when it happened. It sucks, I was just a kid going through a rough spot due to my parents getting divorced. I didn't know it was involuntary treatment. Hell, I repressed most of those memories in the first place. Sad times we live in.
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Who ordered the involuntary treatment or committment?
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 8:22:37 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Who ordered the involuntary treatment or committment?
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Well, I talked to my mother and she seems to believe that she checked me in and nobody in an official capacity ordered it. But she is foggy on it as well seeing as it was 20+ years ago. I am anxious to see what, if anything, the prosecution gets from the state of PA. If it was ordered though, the FBI should have caught it when I went to MEPS to join the Marines at age 17. Nothing ever came up until now.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 8:32:47 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Well, I talked to my mother and she seems to believe that she checked me in and nobody in an official capacity ordered it. But she is foggy on it as well seeing as it was 20+ years ago. I am anxious to see what, if anything, the prosecution gets from the state of PA. If it was ordered though, the FBI should have caught it when I went to MEPS to join the Marines at age 17. Nothing ever came up until now.
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Thanks.

Please keep us informed.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 9:29:47 PM EDT
Will do.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 9:35:55 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Because according to VA state law, I'm not legally allowed to purchase a firearm if I was involuntarily held by a psychiatric institution as they are claiming. Trying to buy a gun in that situation is a misdemeanor in this state.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why does he type misdemeanor next to psych commitment. Baker acts are not crimes and we do not report them in arrest records.
Because according to VA state law, I'm not legally allowed to purchase a firearm if I was involuntarily held by a psychiatric institution as they are claiming. Trying to buy a gun in that situation is a misdemeanor in this state.
Not a lawyer or a mental health professional, but i was under the impression only a court order could hold you in a hospital against your will.

Was there a court involved?

ETA: I see that you don't remember one. I think your mom would remember if she had to go to court
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 9:42:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Thanks! It is my understanding that juvenile criminal records are sealed, however, any Baker Act stays on your record as long as you were older than 14 when it happened. It sucks, I was just a kid going through a rough spot due to my parents getting divorced. I didn't know it was involuntary treatment. Hell, I repressed most of those memories in the first place. Sad times we live in.
View Quote
It's my understanding that Baker Acts are medical and protected by HIPPA. They shouldn't be in the system.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:23:16 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Not a lawyer or a mental health professional, but i was under the impression only a court order could hold you in a hospital against your will.

Was there a court involved?

ETA: I see that you don't remember one. I think your mom would remember if she had to go to court
View Quote
My mom is positive there was no court involved. Although I am scared shitless, I am anxious to see what evidence the state has.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 10:41:51 PM EDT
In to see how this turns out.  Keep us posted and I really hope it all gets straightened out.  Really seems ridiculous.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 11:12:17 PM EDT
This is infuriating.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 11:22:12 PM EDT
Wow, thats insane and complete BS.  Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 11:54:34 PM EDT
What you describe would not qualify as DQ under FedLaw.

Perhaps VA law is more strict.
Link Posted: 10/11/2019 11:54:55 PM EDT
Thank you all for your kind words of support. It certainly helps because I've been barely able to eat and can't get to sleep. I don't place much faith in our justice system these days.

I have lawyered up now and was told I don't have to show for the arraignment because he is going to take care of that. He did say this may take up to several months until the pretrial and trial (if it goes to that). It may be slow going but I definitely will keep you updated as things develop.
Link Posted: 10/12/2019 6:26:07 PM EDT
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Quoted:
It's my understanding that Baker Acts are medical and protected by HIPPA. They shouldn't be in the system.
View Quote
1) It's HIPAA.

2) Since the facility where the OP was treated was in PA not VA, OP may also need an attorney in PA to un-fuck this and force the facility where he was treated to send the correct info to the FBI.  Josh Prince is a decent 2A attorney in PA and may be able to help with that.  @joshuap
Link Posted: 10/12/2019 7:06:49 PM EDT
Tag for curiosity, hope this gets cleared up ricki tick
Link Posted: 10/13/2019 1:23:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2019 1:25:48 PM EDT
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