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Posted: 9/19/2017 11:26:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 11:57:01 AM EST
In.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 12:07:42 PM EST
Dis gun be gud

And in b4 the comments about 1/9 twist
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 12:24:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2017 12:35:24 PM EST by StewartTR]
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Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:
Dis gun be gud

And in b4 the comments about 1/9 twist
View Quote
62grn 1/9 twist b fin...
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 12:31:49 PM EST
Serious question: is there any reason to favor M855 over M193?

Or any particular situation where you would, if not in general?
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 12:35:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
Serious question: is there any reason to favor M855 over M193?

Or any particular situation where you would, if not in general?
View Quote
Better penetration at long range. Reduced fragmentation range. My choice would be M193 IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 12:36:26 PM EST
Please consult the all knowing all seeing Oracle...

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 2:17:50 PM EST
Why isn't Molon doing these videos?


I do like how the guy in the video looked right then left after his shot!
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 2:21:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By StewartTR:
Please consult the all knowing all seeing Oracle...

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/
View Quote
I've always found the ammo oracle to be a cluster fuck. So hard to find info.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 2:39:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:



I've always found the ammo oracle to be a cluster fuck. So hard to find info.
View Quote
The new format sucks. The original was better IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 3:47:20 PM EST
I have my barrel of ammo ready for the apocalypse
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 4:06:46 PM EST
Well done as usual Andrew.  
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 4:12:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StewartTR:


62grn 1/9 twist b fin...
View Quote
Seems the argument could be made that an 11.5 inch 1/9 will stabilize m855 less that a 14.5-20 inch 1/7, so this test may be showing optimum performance of this bullet.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 4:21:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2017 4:21:34 PM EST by Frost7]
As far as accuracy goes, I zeroed my ARX-100 using some of my 2005 stockpile of LC M855 last month at one of those digital Olympic zeroing ranges. Averaged around 1.5 MOA from a benchrest out of a 16" 1/7 CL CHF ARX barrel. Not bad at all for a non-match fighting round out of a non-match fighting rifle. That'll get the job done.

M855 gets too much hate, IMO.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 5:41:47 PM EST
Good vid, please keep doing more with more ammo / barrel combinations!
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 6:07:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2017 6:08:10 PM EST by chriss1069]
Thanks for the vids....could you please shoot some various 556 rounds at 100 yards+ out of the SBR to see if the terminal effects change with distance and less velocity since they are already so close to the 2500fps magic number.....

Link Posted: 9/19/2017 6:14:40 PM EST
Nice video, I have been enjoying the series. You have put a lot of effort into these videos and it shows.

I would love to see a table of the various 5.56/.223 ammunition that you have tested with the neck, temp cavity, and any fragmentation notes along with the velocity and rifle used in the test all in one place. It may not be scientific enough to satisfy the haters, but it would be a damned useful resource to have as a real world reference.

Keep up the good work!
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 6:52:35 PM EST
I love these videos good work
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 6:59:46 PM EST
I like 855 and have a good bit. I will continue to buy more.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 7:07:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2017 7:07:50 PM EST by ThrustMyStoma]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:



I've always found the ammo oracle to be a cluster fuck. So hard to find info.
View Quote
@GoatBoy
and the formatting on the left side topic expansion is messed up still from the site change maybe.

win 7/chrome.

Link Posted: 9/19/2017 7:15:57 PM EST
I never tire of watching AR ballistic tests.

Thanks for taking the time to do these.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 7:32:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By chriss1069:
Thanks for the vids....could you please shoot some various 556 rounds at 100 yards+ out of the SBR to see if the terminal effects change with distance and less velocity since they are already so close to the 2500fps magic number.....

View Quote
Thank you. Testing at longer distances is problematic. I have to lug 30lbs of gel downrange along with the table and cameras, then race back before it warms up and gets out of calibration. On top of that, I have to not only hit the face of the block in the right spot, but align the shot so that it passes through in the right place in three dimensions. I may simulate longer distance with a reduced charge if there is enough interest.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 7:33:44 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PalmettoState:
Nice video, I have been enjoying the series. You have put a lot of effort into these videos and it shows.

I would love to see a table of the various 5.56/.223 ammunition that you have tested with the neck, temp cavity, and any fragmentation notes along with the velocity and rifle used in the test all in one place. It may not be scientific enough to satisfy the haters, but it would be a damned useful resource to have as a real world reference.

Keep up the good work!
View Quote
I'd like to see that too, but I'm too lazy to put it together. If anyone else wants to take it up, I'll assist.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 7:34:40 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
Serious question: is there any reason to favor M855 over M193?

Or any particular situation where you would, if not in general?
View Quote
I use it for my training ammo. It over laps the groups from my carry 69 smk's, M193 does not.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 7:35:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 7:36:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2017 7:38:17 PM EST by UTex86]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


Thank you. Testing at longer distances is problematic. I have to lug 30lbs of gel downrange along with the table and cameras, then race back before it warms up and gets out of calibration. On top of that, I have to not only hit the face of the block in the right spot, but align the shot so that it passes through in the right place in three dimensions. I may simulate longer distance with a reduced charge if there is enough interest.
View Quote
That would be cool. I mean we're just talking about velocity at impact right? Should be easy enough to simulate and the results should be applicable.

I would be very interested to see how 855 and 193 do on gel in 100fps increments down to as slow as you're comfortable doing. Shouldn't be too much work
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 8:07:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


Thank you. Testing at longer distances is problematic. I have to lug 30lbs of gel downrange along with the table and cameras, then race back before it warms up and gets out of calibration. On top of that, I have to not only hit the face of the block in the right spot, but align the shot so that it passes through in the right place in three dimensions. I may simulate longer distance with a reduced charge if there is enough interest.
View Quote
Or, you could leave the gel, table, and cameras where they are and move yourself and the rifle 100 yds

Down loading will give you part of the equation but won't factor in the rate of fleet yaw at distance
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 8:38:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AS556:
I like 855 and have a good bit. I will continue to buy more.
View Quote
Same.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 9:14:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By UTex86:
That would be cool. I mean we're just talking about velocity at impact right? Should be easy enough to simulate and the results should be applicable.

I would be very interested to see how 855 and 193 do on gel in 100fps increments down to as slow as you're comfortable doing. Shouldn't be too much work
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By UTex86:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


Thank you. Testing at longer distances is problematic. I have to lug 30lbs of gel downrange along with the table and cameras, then race back before it warms up and gets out of calibration. On top of that, I have to not only hit the face of the block in the right spot, but align the shot so that it passes through in the right place in three dimensions. I may simulate longer distance with a reduced charge if there is enough interest.
That would be cool. I mean we're just talking about velocity at impact right? Should be easy enough to simulate and the results should be applicable.

I would be very interested to see how 855 and 193 do on gel in 100fps increments down to as slow as you're comfortable doing. Shouldn't be too much work
Well, velocity is the biggest factor, but there are other factors that also influence fragmentation. Lower muzzle velocity means less stability, which could result in more yaw at the moment of impact. While the forward progress of the bullet is slowed by air quickly, it maintains much more of its rotational velocity over distance. So a lower muzzle velocity isn't quite the same, but it's close.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 9:59:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
Serious question: is there any reason to favor M855 over M193?

Or any particular situation where you would, if not in general?
View Quote
There are reasons to shoot M193 over M855, though - anything steel going downrange makes for an increased fire risk, if that's a thing you have to worry about.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 10:20:01 PM EST
I crack up at the hate it gets. I guess all those dead people from m855 didn't get the memo that it sucks.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 11:06:42 PM EST
As Doug Marcaida would say "It will kill!" PERIOD
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 7:50:38 AM EST
Paul Howe, who has killed a lot of folks for this country, doesn't think much of it.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 9:20:16 AM EST
Good stuff !

Thx again.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 9:31:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 11:18:26 AM EST
Great video, thanks.

As others have said, would love to see gel performance at a little longer range so the velocity is lower.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 1:12:23 PM EST
I like how people will argue that it doesn't kill people, like the US Military picked a totally ineffective round for use on people.

I've always wondered about the wound channel coming out of my SBR, looks like it's pretty good. :D
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 1:13:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Stylz:
@bluefalcon tests Lake City M855 from an 11.5" 1/9 SBR. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOJdv38Fypg
View Quote


I would have preferred the shorter barrels that he has done tests with before. Also, the silencer increases velocity, so that's kind of counter productive to keep on there for the nature of the test.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 1:17:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Blain:


I would have preferred the shorter barrels that he has done tests with before. Also, the silencer increases velocity, so that's kind of counter productive to keep on there for the nature of the test.
View Quote
Wait, you don't run an SBR so you can use a suppressor without adding OAL?
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 1:23:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By chriss1069:
Thanks for the vids....could you please shoot some various 556 rounds at 100 yards+ out of the SBR to see if the terminal effects change with distance and less velocity since they are already so close to the 2500fps magic number.....

View Quote
Do you like shot up chronographs?

Because thats how you get shot up chronographs.....


Link Posted: 9/20/2017 1:38:37 PM EST
So would these results point to M855 is to some degree less velocity dependent than XM193?
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 2:21:50 PM EST
OST
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 2:23:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MikeE23666:
So would these results point to M855 is to some degree less velocity dependent than XM193?
View Quote
No
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 2:52:55 PM EST
Makes me want to have a 50 yard 556 rifle. Get a 1:12 twist barrel and shoot m855 out of it and keyhole my "soft targets"
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 3:18:53 PM EST
I'm just here for the ballistic gel test
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 4:41:04 PM EST
A couple of old school ARFCOM members already did the frag distance work many, many, years back...






Link Posted: 9/20/2017 6:13:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:
And in b4 the comments about 1/9 twist
View Quote
1/7 overstabilizes it and makes it ice pick through teh bad guys!!!




How was that?
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 7:02:28 PM EST
Well--is the lower velocity limit for fragmentation with M193 2700 feet per second, or 2500?



I have seen people interpret this chart as meaning "M193 will fragment reliably in soft tissue down to 2700 f.p.s. and sometimes but not 100% of the time down to 2500 f.p.s., below which it yaws but does not fragment in tissue."

At least for the specific lot of M193 that was tested to produce those results. I will guess that jacket thickness, jacket material (copper vs. copper washed mild steel), cannelure depth, and so on, have varied a bit from plant to plant over the past fifty years. That's even before we start talking about M193-ish ammunition produced outside the US.

I'd ask the same question about the heavy OTM type bullets. One of the charts on this page appears to say that the 77gr Nosler and similar bullets can fragment in ballistic gelatin at velocities below 2100 f.p.s., but the chart above says 2300.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 7:43:13 PM EST
@bluefalcon Nice work!

.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 8:15:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Blain:


I would have preferred the shorter barrels that he has done tests with before. Also, the silencer increases velocity, so that's kind of counter productive to keep on there for the nature of the test.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Blain:
Originally Posted By Stylz:
@bluefalcon tests Lake City M855 from an 11.5" 1/9 SBR. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOJdv38Fypg


I would have preferred the shorter barrels that he has done tests with before. Also, the silencer increases velocity, so that's kind of counter productive to keep on there for the nature of the test.
I don't have a shorter barrel.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 9:00:18 PM EST
In.
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