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Posted: 2/20/2013 4:53:24 AM EDT
In all of the boycott / "don't sell to ban-state LEOs" lately, it's been said that officers often have to buy their own rifles. I'm all for companies taking a stand and not selling to departments and agencies in ban states. But for individual LEOs, it's not so black and white for me.  I think maybe a good compromise would be selling to individual LEOs who provide proof of current NRA membership in good standing. Shouldn't be that hard since I presume they already have to send their LE credentials to get the weapons shipped to a ban-state anyway. Just go ahead and photocopy your NRA card while you're at it.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 4:57:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 4:58:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:01:32 AM EDT
If the pesants can't have them, neither should the king's men.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:07:55 AM EDT
I personally don't care if they have to buy any weapon with their own money ... if the general citizen can't own, then neither should they.  Also if it is illegal for the populace to own such weapons, why do the police need to arm themselves with it ... once the "law" was signed all citizen's firearms magically disappear and everyone complies right.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:09:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:11:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Truth....and if all it takes is current NRA membership for LEO then it should work for civilians....right?

Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:11:50 AM EDT
Allowing that too happen would be defacto "straw purchase" by the agency
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:12:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2013 5:13:12 AM EDT by vm1970]
yeah but how many of us can write off a weapon as a tax deduction.I wish I could.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:13:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2013 5:14:03 AM EDT by althor]
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


you magnificent bastard.  

I knew I loved you.


If you are ever in Idaho, I offer you shelter and women.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:13:19 AM EDT
I see both sides of the argument, but at the end of the day if the citizenry cannot have it then LEAs and LEOs should not either. I think that the current militarization of our police force is a dangerous road to travel. I am 100% supportive of police in their conventional role and realize SWAT needs a little leeway beyond typical LEOs as long as due process is complied with. But if we cannot possess something they should not be able to either. The logic behind that is I should be able to face the same threat with the same equipment as them, because I am my families first line of defense from criminal and tyrants alike.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:13:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.

I want to have your babies
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:16:18 AM EDT
Nope.  And another thing I often take issue with...LEOs are civilians.  There is no distinction.  The only folks who are not civilians are military.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:16:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:17:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:18:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By edthecat:
Nope.  And another thing I often take issue with...LEOs are civilians.  There is no distinction.  The only folks who are not civilians are military.


I know people are people, and there are good people and bad people.  Sadly, I've overheard retired cops talking as though they were superior to mere civilians and more deserving of having weapons.  Retired, not even active duty.  Don't know how common it is.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:19:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


THIS

LEOs often get special treatment in gun ban state which is total bullshit.  If I can't own/carry/have it, neither should they.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:20:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2013 5:20:59 AM EDT by charliepete67]
This->This.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:21:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2013 5:21:46 AM EDT by BASooner]
The department issues our units a choice of shotgun or AR. Both are used and basic models. Many officer buy their own ARs and have to qualify and have them signed off by our department chief. We buy them AS civilians on our civilian time using our state ID and department letter head to obtain a discount or "dealer" price.

If my state bans all AR models to civilian use - How can ANY officer or manufacturer justify selling to a LEO on his own personal civilian time using a department and LEO ID to buy said AR all the while his neighbor can not buy the same rifle?

Department buying and issuing ARs in ban states is different to me then individual officers buying ARs in ban states off the clock using the department.


WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY!!! WE CLOCK OUT!!!

When I clock out - I'm a civilian! I should not be allowed to buy a weapon banned by the state/federal government. Period.

The selling to department thing is a whole different debate.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:21:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Sums it up nicely.

I'm sick of seeing all these REMF Admins in lock step with the gun grabbers. I doubt that companies refusing to sell to their agency will change their minds, they probably haven't made a traffic stop since the mid 80's and are totally out of touch with real police work.

I agree 100% with the stand many of these companies are taking and will send any future business of mine their way.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:22:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JofoShootin:
In all of the boycott / "don't sell to ban-state LEOs" lately, it's been said that officers often have to buy their own rifles. I'm all for companies taking a stand and not selling to departments and agencies in ban states. But for individual LEOs, it's not so black and white for me.  I think maybe a good compromise would be selling to individual LEOs who provide proof of current NRA membership in good standing. Shouldn't be that hard since I presume they already have to send their LE credentials to get the weapons shipped to a ban-state anyway. Just go ahead and photocopy your NRA card while you're at it.


Why?
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:25:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.

^^^

Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:26:56 AM EDT
How about all the manufacturers stop selling weapons and ammo to the government also lets see what happens than. Its going to be a fight to get this Country back and I don't mean the talking head in Washington type of fight.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:29:13 AM EDT
A lot of law enforcement agencies reimburse officers for AR15s and/or buy them back eventually. The individual cops are just proxies of their agencies. Selling an "assault weapon" to LEO is the same as selling to LEAs.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:29:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BASooner:
The department issues our units a choice of shotgun or AR. Both are used and basic models. Many officer buy their own ARs and have to qualify and have them signed off by our department chief. We buy them AS civilians on our civilian time using our state ID and department letter head to obtain a discount or "dealer" price.

If my state bans all AR models to civilian use - How can ANY officer or manufacturer justify selling to a LEO on his own personal civilian time using a department and LEO ID to buy said AR all the while his neighbor can not buy the same rifle?

Department buying and issuing ARs in ban states is different to me then individual officers buying ARs in ban states off the clock using the department.


WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY!!! WE CLOCK OUT!!!

When I clock out - I'm a civilian! I should not be allowed to buy a weapon banned by the state/federal government. Period.

The selling to department thing is a whole different debate.


Um, you are a civilian, just like everybody else, even when on the clock. You just happen to be doing a public service.

Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:29:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


pretty clear cut to me.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:30:43 AM EDT
Why?


Because most of the rank and file, support the second ammendment and civilian ownership...it is the cheifs and kissups that want gun control...like that POS in Philly, Ramsey, he makes me sick everytime he is spewing on the TV..
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:31:25 AM EDT
I don't see eye to eye with Bama on a whole lot of stuff, but he's been dead right and 100% consistent on this issue.

The only way for lovers of the EBR and firearms in general to have any chance of gaining the ear of these wild eyed whacko legislators is for them to see that companies that supply the kings men will not look at them any differently than the citizenry.  If enough manufacturers get on board...we have a chance of them noticing.  

Companies on the sideline or those not supporting our cause by selling in this way deserve to be not only boycotted but humiliated within the firearms community.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:31:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SGocka:
If the pesants can't have them, neither should the king's men.


Yep!!
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:31:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AZjeepguy:
How about all the manufacturers stop selling weapons and ammo to the government also lets see what happens than. Its going to be a fight to get this Country back and I don't mean the talking head in Washington type of fight.


Too bad that's not an effective strategy.  Someone will continue to provide weapons and ammo, even from a foreign source like Glock, Sig, or Beretta.  Where it hurts is the nickel and dime stuff like mounts, lubes, small parts, cases, and stuff like that.  When these companies stop pandering to the emotional teary-eye arfcommer crowd with their feel-good facebook statements and stop sell anything and I mean not a damn thing at the government level, none of this will make a difference.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:32:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JOThompson:
A lot of law enforcement agencies reimburse officers for AR15s and/or buy them back eventually. The individual cops are just proxies of their agencies. Selling an "assault weapon" to LEO is the same as selling to LEAs.



This.

Plus some departments (mine at least) after a certain number of years of service buy their officers a AR with the agreement that at retirement they can buy the rifle for $1.00

IE here, 15 years of service gives the officer a choice of DPMS or Colt with Magpul furniture - Retirement is 20yrs (or 5 year sign ons after).
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:32:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:33:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


This.

OP, I see what you're saying, no one wants to see LEOs outgunned. But if they need them so badly to protect themselves against armed criminals, so do we.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:34:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Agreed.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:34:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheWind:
Why?


Because most of the rank and file, support the second ammendment and civilian ownership...it is the cheifs and kissups that want gun control...like that POS in Philly, Ramsey, he makes me sick everytime he is spewing on the TV..


That's irrelevant at this point. The time for playing both sides is past, you're either with us or against us. Only when the king's men have to suffer along with the peasants will they reconsider who they support.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:35:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2013 5:36:53 AM EDT by BASooner]
Originally Posted By Hanzerik:
Originally Posted By BASooner:
The department issues our units a choice of shotgun or AR. Both are used and basic models. Many officer buy their own ARs and have to qualify and have them signed off by our department chief. We buy them AS civilians on our civilian time using our state ID and department letter head to obtain a discount or "dealer" price.

If my state bans all AR models to civilian use - How can ANY officer or manufacturer justify selling to a LEO on his own personal civilian time using a department and LEO ID to buy said AR all the while his neighbor can not buy the same rifle?

Department buying and issuing ARs in ban states is different to me then individual officers buying ARs in ban states off the clock using the department.


WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY!!! WE CLOCK OUT!!!

When I clock out - I'm a civilian! I should not be allowed to buy a weapon banned by the state/federal government. Period.

The selling to department thing is a whole different debate.


Um, you are a civilian, just like everybody else, even when on the clock. You just happen to be doing a public service.



Respectfully disagree. I'm a public servant. Rather you want to argue semantics is up to you. Civilians are not granted the authority that a LEO is while on duty. (Open carry, SWAT with fully auto MP5, power to arrest, etc etc).

Just disagree to some degree. I think we both agree on principal though however.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:37:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:37:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By silentweapon338:
Allowing that too happen would be defacto "straw purchase" by the agency


This. Good for the goose good for the gander.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:38:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2013 5:38:35 AM EDT by drkddl]
Originally Posted By BASooner:
Respectfully disagree. I'm a public servant. Rather you want to argue semantics is up to you. Civilians are not granted the authority that a LEO is while on duty. (Open carry, SWAT with fully auto MP5, power to arrest, etc etc).

Just disagree to some degree. I think we both agree on principal though however.

You can disagree all you want, but a LEO is not a special class of citizen. Unless you can find a part of the Constitution that lays that out?

You get those privileges because you are acting on behalf of your department. Your department has the privileges, you as an individual don't.

Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:38:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2013 5:38:56 AM EDT by BASooner]
Originally Posted By CopesDist:
From LE who wanted to order from us in New York. Sorry.

We are not shipping any product that the citizens of New York are not
allowed to purchase.

Sincerely,
Roger



Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:38:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CopesDist:
From LE who wanted to order from us in New York. Sorry.

We are not shipping any product that the citizens of New York are not
allowed to purchase.

Sincerely,
Roger




THANK YOU!

Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:39:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Yup.

The 2nd is there for a reason.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:40:30 AM EDT
Ours are issued.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:40:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CopesDist:
From LE who wanted to order from us in New York. Sorry.

We are not shipping any product that the citizens of New York are not
allowed to purchase.

Sincerely,
Roger


Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:41:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By drkddl:
Originally Posted By BASooner:
Respectfully disagree. I'm a public servant. Rather you want to argue semantics is up to you. Civilians are not granted the authority that a LEO is while on duty. (Open carry, SWAT with fully auto MP5, power to arrest, etc etc).

Just disagree to some degree. I think we both agree on principal though however.

You can disagree all you want, but a LEO is not a special class of citizen. Unless you can find a part of the Constitution that lays that out?

You get those privileges because you are acting on behalf of your department. Your department has the privileges, you as an individual don't.



I agree. Without the authority of the department LEO can not do as they do. However, with the authority of the department LEOs are given powers they would not have off duty. Acting on behalf of the state and the department - We are a PUBLIC SERVANT.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:42:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By vm1970:
yeah but how many of us can write off a weapon as a tax deduction.I wish I could.


How many of us actually go past the standard deduction... I wish I could.  
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:42:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheWind:
Why?


Because most of the rank and file, support the second ammendment and civilian ownership...it is the cheifs and kissups that want gun control...like that POS in Philly, Ramsey, he makes me sick everytime he is spewing on the TV..


Pretty sure Ramsey was a complete disaster when he ran the DCPD.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:43:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hanzerik:
Originally Posted By BASooner:
The department issues our units a choice of shotgun or AR. Both are used and basic models. Many officer buy their own ARs and have to qualify and have them signed off by our department chief. We buy them AS civilians on our civilian time using our state ID and department letter head to obtain a discount or "dealer" price.

If my state bans all AR models to civilian use - How can ANY officer or manufacturer justify selling to a LEO on his own personal civilian time using a department and LEO ID to buy said AR all the while his neighbor can not buy the same rifle?

Department buying and issuing ARs in ban states is different to me then individual officers buying ARs in ban states off the clock using the department.


WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY!!! WE CLOCK OUT!!!

When I clock out - I'm a civilian! I should not be allowed to buy a weapon banned by the state/federal government. Period.

The selling to department thing is a whole different debate.


Um, you are a civilian, just like everybody else, even when on the clock. You just happen to be doing a public service.



Seriously? You think when you clock out you cease to be a cop?  You still carry your badge and a gun most of the time off the clock no?  You say you get no special privileges for being off duty LEO, you gotta be kidding me.  If you do something off duty that goes against the moral code of being a LEO, that affects you both personally and professionally.  Heck, I'm and RN and when I clock out, I'm still an RN...I can't go perform surgery just because I'm off the clock I'm still an RN and not licensed to do that.  If I get a DUI, for instance, I can lose my RN license...does that not apply to cops?
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:44:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thatguywiththeak:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


Agreed.


+1
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:45:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Armed_RN:
Originally Posted By Hanzerik:
Originally Posted By BASooner:
The department issues our units a choice of shotgun or AR. Both are used and basic models. Many officer buy their own ARs and have to qualify and have them signed off by our department chief. We buy them AS civilians on our civilian time using our state ID and department letter head to obtain a discount or "dealer" price.

If my state bans all AR models to civilian use - How can ANY officer or manufacturer justify selling to a LEO on his own personal civilian time using a department and LEO ID to buy said AR all the while his neighbor can not buy the same rifle?

Department buying and issuing ARs in ban states is different to me then individual officers buying ARs in ban states off the clock using the department.


WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY!!! WE CLOCK OUT!!!

When I clock out - I'm a civilian! I should not be allowed to buy a weapon banned by the state/federal government. Period.

The selling to department thing is a whole different debate.


Um, you are a civilian, just like everybody else, even when on the clock. You just happen to be doing a public service.



Seriously? You think when you clock out you cease to be a cop?  You still carry your badge and a gun most of the time off the clock no?  You say you get no special privileges for being off duty LEO, you gotta be kidding me.  If you do something off duty that goes against the moral code of being a LEO, that affects you both personally and professionally.  Heck, I'm and RN and when I clock out, I'm still an RN...I can't go perform surgery just because I'm off the clock I'm still an RN and not licensed to do that.  If I get a DUI, for instance, I can lose my RN license...does that not apply to cops?

I think his point was that a LEO is a civilian whether on or off the clock, they are not a special class of citizen and thus should only have the same weapons as the rest of us.
Link Posted: 2/20/2013 5:45:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
IMO, if they can't sell to civies then no sales to LEA or individual LEO's.


You clearly don't understand how hard and dangerous a cop's job is.
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