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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/11/2004 10:41:00 PM EST
...are there any other LEO ARFCOMMERS whose departments are so screwed up?? What I mean is: Misplacement of funds? Inappropriate spending? Deputies or officers that don't 'back you up'? Policies not being upheld? Policies made to (what seem to me) inconvenience the workplace?

I just don't understand why other deputies don't stick together. I don't know why wages are so low. My most important question is: "What is wrong with a LEO labor union?" These people seem so afraid to even talk about a union. Thanks for your time and input. -Dan
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:42:08 PM EST
NYPD...nuff said.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:45:16 PM EST
Hey, Vinny, elaborate a bit further. I'm not sure what ya mean by that?? Forgive my thickheadedness.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:10:42 PM EST

Misplacement of funds? Inappropriate spending? Deputies or officers that don't 'back you up'? Policies not being upheld? Policies made to (what seem to me) inconvenience the workplace?


Hell, that's our upper management mission statement.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 12:53:37 AM EST
Not here. I work for one of the best Departments in the state, if not the country. Our folks still make mistakes, and we still have problems, but the mistakes are generally honest ones and the problems are probably the unavoidable universal ones that come with any large organation; they are just something you deal with and don't necessarily indicate incompetence.

All in all, I have a good job in good organization. Hiring good people and valuing their contributions and input seems to be a key factor here. If you locals are running things on a shoestring, have management by dictatorial decree (as opposed to participative leadership), then you are probably going to have a crap Department. You get what you pay for, in many things and LE in particular. You as the citizens are responsible too, as your input (or lack thereof) into training, budgets and operational mindset and department culutre can have an impact, for the good or the bad.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 1:20:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:43:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:46:44 AM EST
The more you care ---
the more messed up it seems to be

You have to do what you can , the best you can -- never give up the faith.

The rest don't matter.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:57:22 AM EST
it starts upsatairs...... all i will say.


J
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 7:55:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
it starts upsatairs...... all i will say.


J




+1
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:09:39 AM EST
Our problem can be summed up in three words:

Black

Officers'

Coalition




Don't look at me like that, I'm not the one playing "the race card".

Am I gonna get banned for this?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:13:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By heARtbreaker15:
What I mean is: Misplacement of funds? Inappropriate spending? Deputies or officers that don't 'back you up'? Policies not being upheld? Policies made to (what seem to me) inconvenience the workplace?




EVERY workplace has those problems to some extent. From your local Walmart to the US Army, those problems exist everywhere.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:17:12 AM EST
My cousin who is a Minneapolis LEO told me straight up after he was hired his TO told him he had two things against him when he applied. 1. He's white 2. He's a Male
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:23:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By heARtbreaker15:
Hey, Vinny, elaborate a bit further. I'm not sure what ya mean by that?? Forgive my thickheadedness.



Really can't because you never know who's watching. Let's just say, you're not alone.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:24:53 AM EST
this thread inspires a lot of confidence.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:30:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:20:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:23:25 PM EST by ColtM4]
My department is screwed up beyond imagination. Nepitism is blatant and in your face ( example : Rookie right out of Academy (3-4 ) months assigned to Emergency Service Unit )

Bosses who are tapping young rookie females hand out plum assignements to their girlfriends even though their are much better qualified/trained/experienced other officers with 10-15 yrs on the job.

Corruption? Man theirs so much one newspaper has a reporter dedicated to just reporting corruption in our agency... Former 3 star chief was recently handed a 150 count indictment.

Wasting taxpayers money you say ? They spent 35 million dollars to refurbish one of our buildings then decided to shut it down .

Two years and I'm gone
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 7:43:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:14:44 PM EST
The city I used to work for treated the PD like unwanted step children. Crappy uniforms, crappy cars, crappy radios, etc, etc... There was never enough money for what we needed, but there was always money for beautification projects, new cars and equipment for the other city services and whatever crumbs were left were reluctantly given to the PD. One year it really made a lot of us mad after the "there's no money for..." speech and the city turns around and spends $30,000 on Christmas lights and then pays the light & water employees all this overtime to put them up in time for Christmas...real nice.

I could only stand it for 5 years...
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:19:21 PM EST
Right beforeI took my boss to court.....I got a good luck email from Frank Serpico.... we won a 1st ammendment suit against them. THe NJFOP, backed the administration....some good union they are... I am there, they are not!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:16:26 PM EST
Try working for a FD with the same mentality...

My chief got a 68 on his Lt.'s exam, but argued, since the BOFPC regulations stated that 65% of your score comes from the written that a passing score is 65%.... And got the bugle on the last day of the old mayor's term.

A Shift Commander (glorified union-bust LT.) tells new guys boastfully that "he didn't pass the psych portion of the entry exam 20+ years ago", but got hired because he was just above the political push they wanted on the job...

A fair-share (scab)* payee that had no real interest in the job took it for the pension. 16 years on, and bails out of a chemical fire when a drum vents in the next room. Of course, he runs over the two people he led in there... and it's caught on survellience cams. footprints on the backs of their coats - no BS. He get a bugle...

One senior FF has a history of milking the system for OT, taking classes on City $ and then not using the certs, and a classic "do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do" leadership style. He's in the running for the new Lt. list.

At least our brothers in blue have a chief who refuses to reduce the budget when city hall cries "budget crises" and demands a 20% cut in budget - despite the fact that non-emergency payroll is at 72%...

As I told my wife when she suggested taking advantage of the "pension portability" law that passed recently - 60% of the BS is specific to the JOB... the remainder is dependent on the shop. At least here I know the players, and I have some seniority.

*no slam to vollies - this guy is a die hard anti-union asshat, despite the fact that we unionized because the chiefs buddies would get extra vacation days (the used ones wouldn't get counted), and the City would give "bonuses" instead of raises every year (bonuses don't count towards pension), and finally refused to talk to the non-union "association" about any wages or working condition, despite no raises in over 4 years.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:42:27 PM EST
You are going to get the quality of force you are willing to pay for AND the quality you deserve. So if the City Fathers are willing to let the Department get crappy it will.

As far as looking for minority femalse and joking about it, that's gallows humor. Almost every Dep't gets Federal money of some kind and with Fed money comes EEO/AA Plans, and the easy way out is to promote or select to meet goals (I know I've administered the plans for a Defense Contractor), it's easier to promote a marginal candidate than to prove later that the white male selected was the superior candidate.

Local city here got sued by a minority female not made an offer. Went to court and won, and was awarded ZERO Damages. She was the only minority female in her fire Academy class and was hired by the County and didn't lose any money, in fact made more at the County.

Part of the problem is that both rank and file and management will tolerate bad cops or hose jocks for a variety of reasons, and if that happens you end up with a department with low morale and in many cases the good officers can go elsewhere, like to the big city so you eventually get all the cream skimmed off the top.

Big big departments become bureaucracies, any large organization gets that way.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:40:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By heARtbreaker15:
...are there any other LEO ARFCOMMERS whose departments are so screwed up??



The question is does such a thing as a non-screwed up police dept actually exist?
The first thing I learned in my travels around Florida is that all agencies are screwed up on some level. Sheriff's offices seem to be the worst due to being run by elected sheriffs and all the BS that comes with politics.


I just don't understand why other deputies don't stick together.


Because most cops are selfish and only want to do something if its good them personally. They don't care if it screws other cops as long as they get theirs.


"What is wrong with a LEO labor union?" These people seem so afraid to even talk about a union.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with a union and I advocate being a part of one. I am a rep for our union chapter (Florida PBA) and IMHO they are the only union that is truly dedicated to its members.

It's ironic that cops are brave when it comes to going toe to toe with an armed subject yet afraid to even talk about unionizing. It goes back to most officers being selfish individuals.



ps..If you do unionize and are an active person in the process, be prepared to get screwed over by the very officers whom you are trying to help.
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