Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 3/12/2005 5:17:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 6:46:20 PM EDT by chapperjoe]
Isn't t true that once the dealer has teh guns they can sell them to anyone?
E.g. I'm lookin at a Vertec G (also the new PX4 storm for that matter)

So why would beretta make these LEO????
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:29:05 PM EDT
I've often wondered the same thing... for example, WTF is a Glock 26 that is marked Law Enforcement Only? Someone told me recently that there's some special tax break for LE firearms, so I guess once the gun has that "status" attached to, the dealer can only sell it to LE.

--Mike
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:32:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:34:02 PM EDT
Glock sells LE handguns to dealers for less than regular guns. They are identical except for the sticker on the box. However, by purchasing guns at the LE price and selling them at full retail, the dealer turns a bigger profit. This is also known as fraud. Beretta may have the same deal with their distributers.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:36:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:38:58 PM EDT
My Sig is issued from my dept. but its not marked.

The Mags are.

Which leaves me to believe that its the pre ban mag cap rule.


just a guess though.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:42:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:48:12 PM EDT
the px4 WILL be sold to the public. They're sending em out to LEO first before anything. I think you can buy em from impactguns.com for yourself if you want.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:49:20 PM EDT
Certain handguns sold as LEO are exempted from a Federal tax.

Having consumed 5 beers tonite, I dimly recall that it's about 11%.

Quote this at your peril.

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 3:16:27 AM EDT
I understand now, at least i know the reason!

So how can people get vertec G's. I know many that have it, and I know how to get one. (I heard that ernst langdon will get you one, and so i went to a hangout of his, VA arms, they said yeah go call langdon.)
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 3:47:05 AM EDT
Wave, I love that sig. That video is freakin scary. I especially liked when they all started to bail when he brought out the AR.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 3:52:39 AM EDT
I'd have to call BS if it weren't for the sheer terror in the room ,when he asked for the AR - that was true raw fear. Hilarious.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:03:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
LEO guns aren't required to have the FET (federal excise tax) paid on them, so LEOs can buy them at a discount (this is supposed to be for duty use only). That's why a dealer can't sell one to you, even if he sold you the identical model gun that was non-LEO. The type 1 FFL cannot collect or pay the FET (only a manufacturing FFL can), but can also not bypass the FET requirement.

-Troy



Not quite true. Only guns being purchased by an LE agency are FET exempt. Guns purchased by individual officers with their personal funds are not exempt.

Glock sells guns to individual officers at a reduced price because they are pretty supportive of law enforcement, and they sell a hell of a lot of guns that way. Beretta has their 'police special' line of guns that they only sell to cops. The ones I have seen have a parked finish instead of Bruniton and cheaper packaging. The 'G' series guns are LE-only because of a perceived liability issue. Beretta apparently doesn't want so sell G guns to the unwashed masses because they don't have a manual safety. Why this isn't a problem with the Elite series I'm not sure. Sig apparently now has a discount for LE folks, although I'm not sure what it is. For a long time their position was, to quote a Sig rep, "We'll give you a discount when we have trouble selling guns".
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:13:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sparky315:

Originally Posted By Troy:
LEO guns aren't required to have the FET (federal excise tax) paid on them, so LEOs can buy them at a discount (this is supposed to be for duty use only). That's why a dealer can't sell one to you, even if he sold you the identical model gun that was non-LEO. The type 1 FFL cannot collect or pay the FET (only a manufacturing FFL can), but can also not bypass the FET requirement.

-Troy



Not quite true. Only guns being purchased by an LE agency are FET exempt. Guns purchased by individual officers with their personal funds are not exempt.

Glock sells guns to individual officers at a reduced price because they are pretty supportive of law enforcement, and they sell a hell of a lot of guns that way. Beretta has their 'police special' line of guns that they only sell to cops. The ones I have seen have a parked finish instead of Bruniton and cheaper packaging. The 'G' series guns are LE-only because of a perceived liability issue. Beretta apparently doesn't want so sell G guns to the unwashed masses because they don't have a manual safety. Why this isn't a problem with the Elite series I'm not sure. Sig apparently now has a discount for LE folks, although I'm not sure what it is. For a long time their position was, to quote a Sig rep, "We'll give you a discount when we have trouble selling guns".



Exactly, the FET exemption is conveyed to AGENCY acquired guns. Individual officers are not exempt from FET.

The practice (of LEO handguns) stems from the pre-ban/LEO marked mags issue. In some states LEO marked mags are still banned (not that I agree with it) but still available to LEOs. So these guns are (suppossed) to be sold via letterhead due to the LEO mags.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:14:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ben70:
Certain handguns sold as LEO are exempted from a Federal tax.

Having consumed 5 beers tonite, I dimly recall that it's about 11%.

Quote this at your peril.




FET on rifles is 11%, the same as ammunition.

Pistols are 10%.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:14:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sparky315:

Originally Posted By Troy:
LEO guns aren't required to have the FET (federal excise tax) paid on them, so LEOs can buy them at a discount (this is supposed to be for duty use only). That's why a dealer can't sell one to you, even if he sold you the identical model gun that was non-LEO. The type 1 FFL cannot collect or pay the FET (only a manufacturing FFL can), but can also not bypass the FET requirement.

-Troy



Not quite true. Only guns being purchased by an LE agency are FET exempt. Guns purchased by individual officers with their personal funds are not exempt.

Glock sells guns to individual officers at a reduced price because they are pretty supportive of law enforcement, and they sell a hell of a lot of guns that way. Beretta has their 'police special' line of guns that they only sell to cops. The ones I have seen have a parked finish instead of Bruniton and cheaper packaging. The 'G' series guns are LE-only because of a perceived liability issue. Beretta apparently doesn't want so sell G guns to the unwashed masses because they don't have a manual safety. Why this isn't a problem with the Elite series I'm not sure. Sig apparently now has a discount for LE folks, although I'm not sure what it is. For a long time their position was, to quote a Sig rep, "We'll give you a discount when we have trouble selling guns".



The SIG deal is limited to certain guns, seems whatever they have an excess of. The price isn't that great of a deal.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:32:40 AM EDT
The way I was told that the gun itself isn't Law enforcement just the mags. You can sell the gun to anyone. You just couldn't sell the mags that are marked. They just give you a discount on the gun itself.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:36:39 AM EDT
Here's the "deal"

There are several different types of LE Only guns.

1. Guns that are FET out, when a department buys handguns, they are bought FET out meaning they don't carry that sporting tax that all firearms carry. Those normally can only be sold or traded between dealers and other departments or broken down for kits.

2. Idividual officer guns are not FET out...so they can be bought and sold in the "open market". Normally LE will get a slight deal on IO guns, so sometimes that savings is passed on to the next buyer.

3. Some departments will not trade their guns in to be sold into the "common market". I know of several departments that have hundreds of pistols that are just sitting there because they are either going to destroy them and haven't or just have no real way of getting rid of them.

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:39:22 AM EDT
No.

Now the mags are availible to anyone (with regards to certain states that still have hicap laws)
Most guns that are "leo" guns are no marked in any particular way, it's just a tax issue.

For those that would like to see the form for FET exempt purchases. There are a bunch on the site, some in word, some in pdf format.
Forms




Originally Posted By OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN:
The way I was told that the gun itself isn't Law enforcement just the mags. You can sell the gun to anyone. You just couldn't sell the mags that are marked. They just give you a discount on the gun itself.

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:56:42 AM EDT
It's all about taxes.

For LEA guns no taxes have to be paid on them.

On guns sold to individuals and non LEAs the tax must be paid.

CRC
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:15:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SOT_II:
No.

Now the mags are availible to anyone (with regards to certain states that still have hicap laws)
Most guns that are "leo" guns are no marked in any particular way, it's just a tax issue.

For those that would like to see the form for FET exempt purchases. There are a bunch on the site, some in word, some in pdf format.
Forms




Originally Posted By OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN:
The way I was told that the gun itself isn't Law enforcement just the mags. You can sell the gun to anyone. You just couldn't sell the mags that are marked. They just give you a discount on the gun itself.




No, the mags are not availale to anyone as you point out, several states still have a ban on LEO marked or post "pre-ban" mags. Your state included.

With most IO purchases you are certifying it is not for resale even though you DO pay FET on it.

I have bought IO direct from factory and always paid FET.

The dept. does not however pay FET on it's purchases.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:30:20 AM EDT
FET isn't forever, either. As long as the weapon is used in bona fide LE work (BATFE says about 1 year, give or take) and its purchase wasn't meant to be a tax dodge, then the weapon may be trasferred non-FET exempt persons, like the individual officer.
Top Top