Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 10/29/2001 5:05:50 PM EDT
OK, let's try to keep this civilized. Like GB said when he locked the "Other" thread, it started out OK, then quickly degenerated. Let's not repeat that again. First, from the LE perspective. Before I was a LEO, I was a citizen. While I'm a LEO, I'm a citizen. After I leave LE, I'll be a citizen. I've never forgotten that. I'm just as big(Maybe bigger)a gun "Nut" as the rest of you. Now, I would gladly surrender my guns, If the Government could garentee me, without a doubt that All other guns, and assholes on this planet would be totally eradicated. And that my family could live in peace without threat of oppression. I think we'll all agree that there's not much of a chance of that happening. Therefore, I'm not inclined to surrender my Firearms, or other weapons. This being the case, the real challenge here is not to debate what we would do AFTER our guns are banned, but to organize to insure that that never happens. How many people here Know the name of your elected officials? Did you vote for them? Did you bother to find out about them before you voted? Ever communicated with them? "They" are "Us". They work for you. Tell them what you want. I'll do my part to insure that the Right laws are passed. But for as long as I wear that Badge, I'll enforce the laws as they are written. I don't live to wear the badge, I wear the badge to make a living. If I feel that that Badge becomes a conflict with my primary duty as a United States Citizen, I'll take it off. Just the same as any one of you would quit a job because it became incompatible with your goals, or beliefs. I hope that answered the original question. Rich
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:21:09 PM EDT
You are sworn to uphold the law. The law includes the Constitution. If the 2 become incongruous it would be your duty to abide by the constitution. If it came to a total ban, I believe war would break out. And yes, I would kill the enemies of freedom. Before, I get banned (a la I_LUV_CARROTS Aka. McUzi) I will point out that this means anybody LEO or otherwise creating or enforcing an unconstitutional gun ban. I will not join McUzi (Assault Web Wannabe) in indiscriminately killing innocent LEOs.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:26:20 PM EDT
I'm with you on this one 100%. Although my other posts regarding LEO paint a different image of me, I'm against LEO that abuse the power and the badge. Never surrender your guns/weapons. Yes the crime can be totally eradicated (give 6 months free control) but the Government needs the crime to hide behind it and control the masses. Regarding your position that you follow the law only, so did the Germans during WW2. If the law one day would say to shoot point blank all the French in the US would you do it? Remember you said that the elected reps make the law, you only enforce it. In my oppinion you have a poor excuse for the mistakes of others. Remember this country was born not on respecting the law but fighting against it. Where is your line between common sense and enforceing the law. If one day the law (that you did not make but enforce) will send you to take down the doors of people and take the guns away would you do it?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:30:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2001 4:37:36 AM EDT by e8ght]
Ah, but what if the gun laws are being passed with an unstated intent of getting good people OUT of law enforcement? Passing laws which gradually expose shooters to increasing amounts of legal jeopardy seems like a sweet deal for the leftists. Such laws could eventually convince good cops to quit, thus creating job openings which will have an increased chance of being filled by more antigun, just-follow-orders types.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:35:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 5:32:11 PM EDT by reidry]
First, I would never surrender my firearms willingly just because everyone "gave them up" - I am addicted to the shooting sports, I learned to shoot at the age of 7 and will continue into the shooting sports until I'm too feable to hold a shotgun, rifle or pistol on a target. I consider myself a law-abiding citizen with certain inalienable rights - the preservation of those rights requires eternal vigilence. I know who my elected officials are on the local, state and national level. I voted for them after I researched their positions on my issues gun control and taxation. I contact their offices generally about every 2 - 3 months. I often receive letters updating me on my representatives actions wrt my POV. I call, fax, email and sometimes mail (sometimes all 4 depending on the importance of the issue). I agree with the cc48510 that Law Enforcement officers are ulimately responsible for upholding the US Consitution - just as a soldier is responsible for ulimately determining if an order is moral and just - so is the LEO. Any LEO who would consider enforcing an outright ban draws strong question as to his character as an Amercian and his/her understanding and belief of the principles established by the founding fathers. In the wake of recent events America is starting to shake off the Liberal induced haze of the past half century and recall that we, each of us, are the defenders of Freedom, Liberty, our persons and our families. A government that would refuse the right and the ability of its citizens to defend themselves has slid the slippery slope of tyranny.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:35:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 5:30:30 PM EDT by Rapid_Fire]
I think I answered the question of what i would do if faced with an unconstitutional Law in my last paragraph.... BUT...I think all this doom and gloom SHTF talk is mute. Our country is at war. We have been attacked. The American People are afraid. And rightly so. The enemy has fired the first volley, but they aren't finished with us by a long shot. Wait till the first bomb goes off in a shopping mall. And all that terrorist crap we've become acustomed to on the 6:00 news, happening "Somewhere over there" is now right here. For an elected official to even attempt to stand behind gun control will be the kiss of death for his political career. In fact, my guess is, there are lots of Post 9/11 Anti Converts out there, who are now pretty pissed that they can't just go out and buy a gun to protect themselves, or thier families. I expect some of the restrictione we are under now to go away soon. 9/11 changed a lot of things in this country. The Anti's bubble got busted.... Rich
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:41:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 6:43:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2001 5:18:54 AM EDT by libertyof76]
Originally Posted By cc48510:You are sworn to uphold the law. The law includes the Constitution. If the 2 become incongruous it would be your duty to abide by the constitution. If it came to a total ban, I believe war would break out. And yes, I would kill the enemies of freedom. Before, I get banned (a la I_LUV_CARROTS Aka. McUzi) I will point out that this means anybody LEO or otherwise creating or enforcing an unconstitutional gun ban. I will not join McUzi (Assault Web Wannabe) in indiscriminately killing innocent LEOs.
View Quote
Hear hear! Edited to change the spelling of hear.(I never could spell)
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 7:50:28 PM EDT
It is hard for me to believe that any portionable number of cops would ever enforce a gun ban. im not worried about ever shooting at a cop or any other LEO over my second amendment rights. unlike the brown shirts of germany, i seriously doubt that even stupid criminals would go up against armed citizens. in my state of virginia, there is a law outlawing the carry of knives more then three inches in blade length. lockblade or straight. i still see people walking around with such knives on their person. fisherman, hunters, "rednecks", truckers, construction workers, etc. this law is stupid and not enforced. The enforcement of some laws seem to be up to the officer and their judgement. Police are too few to ever organize any sort of confiscation effort for 80 million plus gun owners nationwide. any such effort would have to be slow and incremental (ban manufacture, ban ammo type, ban features, handguns of certain size and quality, magazine capacity, and so on) the above incremental approach does not involve an interraction between Law Enforcement and private citizens, but Law Enforcement and private enterprise. thereby restricting those items from purchase for citizens. this is where the "real fight" is at. the right to manufacture for possesion said features of a firearm. lib out[:/]
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 7:54:21 PM EDT
"Dear LEO's- if faced with this decision, what would you do? BTW, this is the only acceptable answer to us, and we'll kill you if you don't agree with us." Did I miss anything? That's a really good way to win over LEO's who are undecided on the subject. I personally think that a ban on private firearms ownership would blatantly violate the constitution and would not enforce it. If they ordered me to, I would find another job. However, the constant blathering about how you tough guys are gonna slaughter us LEO's if we dare to come for your guns is getting a little tedious. Frankly, we're not impressed. Spend your energy stopping those laws from being passed instead of running your mouths.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 8:01:40 PM EDT
On knives: A lot of LEOs deal with it as a if you are being a stupid person endangering yourself and/or others, they will arrest you and take it away, but most of the time, they won't bother you if you're just packing it. As to the guns, all the cops I know except for about 2 will be with the rest of the gun owners if the day ever comes that the Gov bans our guns. They have guns to use for fun, recreation, and protection of their families, and they will be saying the same things as us, "No way you can have them if you can't guarantee our safety." Ice
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 8:02:34 PM EDT
and so it begins...
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 8:06:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:15:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 10:10:46 PM EDT by Sparky315]
Beekeeper- Sorry, I don't remember you, but don't take that personally. I haven't had much sleep in the last 6 weeks since my daughter was born, and my brain isn't running at top speed [:)]. I never said I would stand by and watch confiscation happen. What I said was, as an LEO I'm really getting tired of people threatening to blow my head off if I do something they don't agree with. I personally don't think there will ever be out-and-out nation-wide confiscation in our lifetime- way too much resistance. The anti-gunners and the rest of the social engineers are working to educate our youngsters that guns are evil and that violence is never, ever acceptable, even in self-defense. If they get their way, there won't be any war over our guns, because our grandchildren will turn them over willingly as 'instruments of evil'. That being said, I would not stand by idly while my neighbors' doors got kicked in. I truly think that disarming the populace is a huge step on the road to a complete dictatorship, and is something we should fight if it is ever truly tried. I believe the founding fathers' thoughts were very clear on this point. The difference between a citizen and a subject is indeed the rifle. I have no argument with the concept that we may, at some point, have to resist unlawful aggression by our own government. Our government is made up of people, just like the governments of Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy, and the same cancers that infected those governments could conceivably infect our own. The problem I have is with all the goddamned armchair commandos on this site who get their kicks telling us LEO's we'd better watch our step or we're gonna get whacked. This is, in my opinion, juvenile and counterproductive, as I've already explained in my reply to "liberty of 76"'s post on the other discussion board. I'm frankly tired of hearing about it. The LEO's on this board are not the enemy. Those of us who are basically on your side get alienated by that kind of talk, and those who are not get fuel for their anti-gun fires. And Liberty, it's "Hear, hear" not "here, here".
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:32:21 PM EDT
What's all this "if" Leo's had to disarm us stuff. Look around, they are disarming us one at a time. If your wife calls the cops on you the LEO's take your guns away when they leave. If someone gets a restraining order they take your guns away. They give out restraining orders like candy. Everyone here has had disagreements with someone, it would be easy to get a restrainig order against them. Here in CT they have a turn in your neighbor law. If a couple of your neighbors think your a little flaky they can call the cops and get your guns taken away. They are using these laws to take guns away from a few of us at a time because they know an all out ban could cause alot of violence. I haven't seen any LEO turn is his badge rather than take someone's guns away. No disrespect to the LEO's, just my opinion.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:49:39 PM EDT
When I applied for my CHL, it required a trip to the local sherrifs office for verification of a background check and firearms related "training". A fairly young deputy (maybe 22) asked me the rather brilliant question "Would you ever shoot a cop?". I answered "I would shoot a cop the same as I would shoot anyone else.". To which I do believe he took offense and was about to say something until an older and obviously wiser Sgt that was helping me with my paperwork told him to, "Get your ass back to work". Point being there are more LEO jobs in the US than you could possibly fill with the experienced people that you would like. Many of the inexperienced ones honestly see themselves as somehow above reproach. Alot of LEO's have had very little life experience before getting hired into law enforcement. In general they are underpaid, under trained and generally shit on way to much by the general public for us not to expect a good size minority of them to develop an "us vs. them" attitude. Try and keep that in mind before you start arguing about your next speeding ticket, and general being an asshole to a cop.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:39:00 PM EDT
The average age of the city police in my area is 26. Youth and lack of life experience determines their beliefs. They know not war and have lived their whole lifes being told guns are evil. The older, more mature LEOs will soon be all gone, and it will be these youths we will all be dealing with soon. That is the danger. Sgtar15 [img]http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000017294/1000017294_1030200131206AM0.8566553.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 1:20:39 AM EDT
[url]www.geocities.com/aaadock1/dear_officer.html[/url] and [url]www.geocities.com/aaadock1/howthey.html[/url] [marines]
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 4:55:02 AM EDT
Two questions: 1. Anybody know a cop that has taken guns away from people that weren't criminals? 2. Anyone know of any cop, anywhere, that has turned his badge in over this?
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 5:16:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 5:34:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: Beekeeper- Sorry, I don't remember you, but don't take that personally. I haven't had much sleep in the last 6 weeks since my daughter was born, and my brain isn't running at top speed [:)].
View Quote
Congratulations! [:)]
I never said I would stand by and watch confiscation happen.
View Quote
That is all we wanted to know.
What I said was, as an LEO I'm really getting tired of people threatening to blow my head off if I do something they don't agree with.
View Quote
That something could only be violation of liberty, and it would have to be pretty damn clear that "blowing you head off" would be warrented. I wouldn't do something like that, unless the 3rd Revolution started. I'd cooperate and let the courts handle it as long as my life wouldn't be in danger.
I personally don't think there will ever be out-and-out nation-wide confiscation in our lifetime- way too much resistance. The anti-gunners and the rest of the social engineers are working to educate our youngsters that guns are evil and that violence is never, ever acceptable, even in self-defense. If they get their way, there won't be any war over our guns, because our grandchildren will turn them over willingly as 'instruments of evil'.
View Quote
The thing is somewill turn them over willingly. But there will still be a small number who would put up a fight. That would happening if any banning guns would pass. War would happen very soon
That being said, I would not stand by idly while my neighbors' doors got kicked in. I truly think that disarming the populace is a huge step on the road to a complete dictatorship, and is something we should fight if it is ever truly tried. I believe the founding fathers' thoughts were very clear on this point. The difference between a citizen and a subject is indeed the rifle. I have no argument with the concept that we may, at some point, have to resist unlawful aggression by our own government. Our government is made up of people, just like the governments of Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy, and the same cancers that infected those governments could conceivably infect our own.
View Quote
That is all we wanted to know. It is good to hear you are on our side(not that I had much doubt).
The problem I have is with all the goddamned armchair commandos on this site who get their kicks telling us LEO's we'd better watch our step or we're gonna get whacked. This is, in my opinion, juvenile and counterproductive, as I've already explained in my reply to "liberty of 76"'s post on the other discussion board. I'm frankly tired of hearing about it. The LEO's on this board are not the enemy. Those of us who are basically on your side get alienated by that kind of talk, and those who are not get fuel for their anti-gun fires.
View Quote
Not to flame, but we get tired of hearing LEOs being defended just because they are LEO's. I understand that the LEO's [red][b]on this board[/b][/red] on not the problem. It is you defense of those who don't share our belief in liberty that is the problem. sgtar15 brought up a good point. If you would never do anything to take away our rights, then you have nothing to worry about.
And Liberty, it's "Hear, hear" not "here, here".
View Quote
Toché(sp?) [;)]
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 9:28:46 AM EDT
After reading cluster's How They link, I continue to think of a good solution to fight back. If an outright gun ban were passed, alot of states wouldn't enforce it. Perhaps to the point of secession. Definitely, Texas would secede. Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Kentucky would probably follow. As well, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, North & South Dakota, Utah, Colorado and possibly Nevada would follow. States such as Alabama, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Virginia would have resistance, but probably wouldn't secede. North Carolina West of Asheville would probably join Tennessee. Point is, the Most Pro-Firearm Sates would fight it tooth and nail. No Texas cop would enforce it. My first suggestion would be (when such ban passes Congress) that every firearm owner in the People's Republics of: New Jersey New York Connecticut Rhode Island Massachutsetts Deleware Maryland Washington, D.C. Ohio Illinois Wisconson Minnesotta California Leave Town and move to a Borderline state (one that isn't anti, but isn't pro.) Shore up their lines. When and if it is signed, every gun owner in a borderline or Anti state should move to Texas, Louisiana, or Mississippi. These are 3 very pro-gun states. Then, the gun-owners in those 3 could fight off the FEDs if necessary. Their legislatures would probably even secede from the union if guns were banned.
Top Top