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Posted: 4/29/2011 2:24:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 2:26:37 PM EDT by zeekh]
I've been thinking about getting LCD monitor for my notebook computer. I'd like to be in the 23" range. I've seen there is a difference in refresh rates. Some are 5ms some are 2ms. Will I see the difference. I use the monitor for mostly surfing the net & AutoCad. No gaming some video or DVD watching. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks zeekh

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:28:32 PM EDT

If you are not gaming, then the ms difference will be negligible to you. Hell, not everyone who games would notice the difference (big difference between that and a CRT though, even for scrolling down through text, as I found a few years back).



Do you want 1920x1080 for movies too, or would you prefer 1920x1200 which is better for 'computer' stuff?

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:32:05 PM EDT
I didn't know CRTs even still existed. Maybe you should call up the Smithsonian and tell you have one.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:39:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 2:42:26 PM EDT by keroppl]
Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.

Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.

23" IPS panel LCD from Dell
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:19:05 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Molotov357:


I didn't know CRTs even still existed. Maybe you should call up the Smithsonian and tell you have one.


Wiseacre.





I run 20" twin Sun monitors (Sony manufactured) on my work computer and another of the same kind at home.

They can't be beaten by any LCD monitor that has yet made it to market.



What I like best about them is that any resolution looks good.  No aliasing or artifacting like you get when you run an LCD

monitor at a resolution other than its native resolution.



I can run up to 2048x1536 resolution on each monitor.  That's rarely needed but it's impossible to do at all with LCD monitors.



So they take up a lot of desk space...big deal.  I have a big desk and it's for nothing but the computers.





I have no reason to switch over yet.   When they fail, I'll get new LCD monitors and they'll be good ones.  But for now,

I'll stick with my high performance dinosaurs.





CJ





 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:38:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:42:49 PM EDT



Originally Posted By keroppl:


Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.



Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.



23" IPS panel LCD from Dell



These are sick. Bought two for work last week. They are really really nice especially for the price.



 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:43:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:56:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Molotov357:
I didn't know CRTs even still existed. Maybe you should call up the Smithsonian and tell you have one.


Actually I do have a CRT at my shop. Very old computer with very old higher end crt monitor. Thats not the computer I'm buying the LCD monitor for.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:58:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By theskuh:

Originally Posted By keroppl:
Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.

Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.

23" IPS panel LCD from Dell

These are sick. Bought two for work last week. They are really really nice especially for the price.
 


So I'm guessing sick is good
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:00:25 PM EDT



Originally Posted By zeekh:



Originally Posted By theskuh:




Originally Posted By keroppl:

Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.



Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.



23" IPS panel LCD from Dell



These are sick. Bought two for work last week. They are really really nice especially for the price.

 




So I'm guessing sick is good


Yeah they look really nice.





 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:05:17 PM EDT



Originally Posted By cmjohnson:





Originally Posted By Molotov357:

I didn't know CRTs even still existed. Maybe you should call up the Smithsonian and tell you have one.


Wiseacre.





I run 20" twin Sun monitors (Sony manufactured) on my work computer and another of the same kind at home.

They can't be beaten by any LCD monitor that has yet made it to market.



What I like best about them is that any resolution looks good.  No aliasing or artifacting like you get when you run an LCD

monitor at a resolution other than its native resolution.



I can run up to 2048x1536 resolution on each monitor.  That's rarely needed but it's impossible to do at all with LCD monitors.



So they take up a lot of desk space...big deal.  I have a big desk and it's for nothing but the computers.





I have no reason to switch over yet.   When they fail, I'll get new LCD monitors and they'll be good ones.  But for now,

I'll stick with my high performance dinosaurs.





CJ



 


LOL.  We hauled off a 40" Sony CRT HDTV last week.  It has a DVI port, and I had an HDMI-DVI cable just sitting around.  It won't accept a 1080p signal, but 1080i looks incredible.



Damn thing weighs over 300 pounds and has a footprint like a new recliner, but the picture is fantastic.



 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:07:27 PM EDT
Get a 23" for $120
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:10:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By theskuh:

Originally Posted By zeekh:
Originally Posted By theskuh:

Originally Posted By keroppl:
Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.

Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.

23" IPS panel LCD from Dell

These are sick. Bought two for work last week. They are really really nice especially for the price.
 


So I'm guessing sick is good

Yeah they look really nice.

 


Looks nice. Does this hook to my computer through the USB port?
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:17:22 PM EDT



Originally Posted By zeekh:



Originally Posted By theskuh:




Originally Posted By zeekh:


Originally Posted By theskuh:




Originally Posted By keroppl:

Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.



Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.



23" IPS panel LCD from Dell



These are sick. Bought two for work last week. They are really really nice especially for the price.

 




So I'm guessing sick is good


Yeah they look really nice.



 




Looks nice. Does this hook to my computer through the USB port?


No

 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:19:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By zeekh:
Originally Posted By theskuh:

Originally Posted By zeekh:
Originally Posted By theskuh:

Originally Posted By keroppl:
Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.

Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.

23" IPS panel LCD from Dell

These are sick. Bought two for work last week. They are really really nice especially for the price.
 


So I'm guessing sick is good

Yeah they look really nice.

 


Looks nice. Does this hook to my computer through the USB port?

No  


the external monitor port? I don't think I have an HDMI connection on this thing.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:22:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 6:24:39 PM EDT by edb66]
The Dell U2311 is nice!




ETA it has Displayport and DVI .
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:41:46 PM EDT



Originally Posted By zeekh:



Originally Posted By Tekka:




Originally Posted By zeekh:


Originally Posted By theskuh:




Originally Posted By zeekh:


Originally Posted By theskuh:




Originally Posted By keroppl:

Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.



Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.



23" IPS panel LCD from Dell



These are sick. Bought two for work last week. They are really really nice especially for the price.

 




So I'm guessing sick is good


Yeah they look really nice.



 




Looks nice. Does this hook to my computer through the USB port?


No  




the external monitor port? I don't think I have an HDMI connection on this thing.


The thing probably has DVI, Displayport and HDMI inputs. Normal stuff for any monitor.

 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:45:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By zeekh:
Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By zeekh:
Originally Posted By theskuh:

Originally Posted By zeekh:
Originally Posted By theskuh:

Originally Posted By keroppl:
Make sure the response times are listed for grey to grey, that is a more realistic measure of real life performance. For the most part it shouldn't affect you much if you don't game.

Go for viewing angles and color reproduction. MVA, S-PVA, and IPS panels are good. Anything cheap will have a TN panel which are crap for viewing angle and color.

23" IPS panel LCD from Dell

These are sick. Bought two for work last week. They are really really nice especially for the price.
 


So I'm guessing sick is good

Yeah they look really nice.

 


Looks nice. Does this hook to my computer through the USB port?

No  


the external monitor port? I don't think I have an HDMI connection on this thing.

The thing probably has DVI, Displayport and HDMI inputs. Normal stuff for any monitor.  


No HDMI, but it is HDCP compliant so you can run HDMI cable and use a HDMI/DVI adapter.

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:59:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Molotov357:
I didn't know CRTs even still existed. Maybe you should call up the Smithsonian and tell you have one.


The high end Viewsonic CRT monitors are unmatched for color fidelity.  They can fetch quite a high price amongst photographers and graphics artists, for the right model in good shape.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:01:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By Molotov357:
I didn't know CRTs even still existed. Maybe you should call up the Smithsonian and tell you have one.


The high end Viewsonic CRT monitors are unmatched for color fidelity.  They can fetch quite a high price amongst photographers and graphics artists, for the right model in good shape.


My old crt is viewsonic. I paid ~$800 in the mid 90s for it.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:05:20 AM EDT
i use a samsung lcd tv
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:07:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Molotov357:
I didn't know CRTs even still existed. Maybe you should call up the Smithsonian and tell you have one.




I got rid of mine several years ago. I game so I have a LCD with a rating of 4ms.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:15:01 AM EDT
http://www.amazon.com/Acer-H233H-bmid-23-Inch-Widescreen/dp/B001OD76RW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304168623&sr=8-1

I use this one on my desktop. It's 23" and 5ms, and I game and watch blu-ray and i don't notice any difference over a 2ms my roommate has. I think its just bragging rights really. Contrast ratio is key though, it's what makes all your s*** look good. Although it looks like on amazon you can get an extra inch for 10 bucks, I would do that if I was buying now.


http://www.amazon.com/Acer-H243H-bmid-24-Inch-Widescreen/dp/B001MTYX10/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1304168623&sr=8-2

And for all you who don't understand connections to your monitor from your notebook:
PC's:
If your pc is made after 1999 and doesn't suck a big one, then it should have a port that has a lot of pin-holes in it. It is either blue (VGA) or white (DVI). DVI is also about twice as long as the VGA and on most monitors and desktop computers these days. Or it could have a slot that is slightly thinner and wider than USB. This one is HDMI. If its really old, it could have a round hole with holes and a small slot, this one is "S-video".
From best to worst quality it goes
DVI - HDMI (same video signal, hdmi just does sound to)
VGA
S-VIDEO

To connect these simply, just get a ___ cable and run it between the two devices with the same ports. If they are different, don't fear! The following combinations are possible:
Computer to Monitor
DVI to HDMI
HDMI to DVI
VGA to DVI
DVI to VGA
Svideo to VGA
VGA - SVIDEO
I have never seen it done, but common sense dictates that in the case that it is necessary, you should be able to somehow do
vga to hdmi (via a DVI in the middle)

Well thats my computer lesson for today. Tune in next week where I talk about routers and firewalls :)
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:07:48 AM EDT
I have an Asus gaming LCD (24.6" Widescreen, "HD") that I really like. Very fast response time, excellent quality, and has VGA, DVI, and HDMI ports. I actually use it for my gaming PC and my Xbox. I just switch the input setting (Xbox uses HDMI, PC uses DVI) depending on what I am running.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:09:12 AM EDT
I use a 32" Samsung.  
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:22:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:24:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 6:26:39 AM EDT by Tekka]
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:23:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Soonershooter12:
http://www.amazon.com/Acer-H233H-bmid-23-Inch-Widescreen/dp/B001OD76RW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304168623&sr=8-1

I use this one on my desktop. It's 23" and 5ms, and I game and watch blu-ray and i don't notice any difference over a 2ms my roommate has. I think its just bragging rights really. Contrast ratio is key though, it's what makes all your s*** look good. Although it looks like on amazon you can get an extra inch for 10 bucks, I would do that if I was buying now.


http://www.amazon.com/Acer-H243H-bmid-24-Inch-Widescreen/dp/B001MTYX10/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1304168623&sr=8-2

And for all you who don't understand connections to your monitor from your notebook:
PC's:
If your pc is made after 1999 and doesn't suck a big one, then it should have a port that has a lot of pin-holes in it. It is either blue (VGA) or white (DVI). DVI is also about twice as long as the VGA and on most monitors and desktop computers these days. Or it could have a slot that is slightly thinner and wider than USB. This one is HDMI. If its really old, it could have a round hole with holes and a small slot, this one is "S-video".
From best to worst quality it goes
DVI - HDMI (same video signal, hdmi just does sound to)
VGA
S-VIDEO

To connect these simply, just get a ___ cable and run it between the two devices with the same ports. If they are different, don't fear! The following combinations are possible:
Computer to Monitor
DVI to HDMI
HDMI to DVI
VGA to DVI
DVI to VGA
Svideo to VGA
VGA - SVIDEO
I have never seen it done, but common sense dictates that in the case that it is necessary, you should be able to somehow do
vga to hdmi (via a DVI in the middle)

Well thats my computer lesson for today. Tune in next week where I talk about routers and firewalls :)


Thanks Sooneshooter12. That helped alot.

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 8:10:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul:
There's so much fun to be had in this thread.

Contrast ratio ... once you turn on a light or put the monitor into a room that has a window not painted black they collapse by hundreds of times. Any light landing on the screen from any source is going to lower the contrast ratio.  Old analog televisions had a contrast radio of 7.5/100 or just better than 13:1 and ten years ago nobody was selling monitors by contrast ratio because the NTSC said what everyone's contrast ratio was.

The refresh rate of the human eye is also a factor. The refresh rate of the human eye is what makes television and computer monitors work. If it was very high you'd actually see the interlace or progressive scan of the lines one-by-one. Your computer might have some crazy high refresh rate but what are the limits of human vision that televisions were designed around? Numbers are fun to play with but eventually people get smart enough to understand the limits of human vision.

There are darn few panel makers that Dell, Apple, HP, and the rest buy from. If you read the technical characteristics you'll quickly see which panel is in who's monitor.

And finally, 99% of people never hang a spider in front of their monitor to calibrate them let alone weekly and nobody controls the light temperature of their room lighting. Of course 99% of people aren't needing color accurate rendering but it sure makes for a good selling point in a confusing technical marketplace.



The part in red isn't true, at least for me.  I have used a screen calibrator for years, and most certainly do make sure that the color temp of the lighting is consistent.  Otherwise, how would I be able to consistently produce graphics for sublimation?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 2:39:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul:
There's so much fun to be had in this thread.

Contrast ratio ... once you turn on a light or put the monitor into a room that has a window not painted black they collapse by hundreds of times. Any light landing on the screen from any source is going to lower the contrast ratio.  Old analog televisions had a contrast radio of 7.5/100 or just better than 13:1 and ten years ago nobody was selling monitors by contrast ratio because the NTSC said what everyone's contrast ratio was.

The refresh rate of the human eye is also a factor. The refresh rate of the human eye is what makes television and computer monitors work. If it was very high you'd actually see the interlace or progressive scan of the lines one-by-one. Your computer might have some crazy high refresh rate but what are the limits of human vision that televisions were designed around? Numbers are fun to play with but eventually people get smart enough to understand the limits of human vision.

There are darn few panel makers that Dell, Apple, HP, and the rest buy from. If you read the technical characteristics you'll quickly see which panel is in who's monitor.

And finally, 99% of people never hang a spider in front of their monitor to calibrate them let alone weekly and nobody controls the light temperature of their room lighting. Of course 99% of people aren't needing color accurate rendering but it sure makes for a good selling point in a confusing technical marketplace.



So going from your refresh rate statement, are TVs with 120 MHz and above useless because of the limitations of our eyes?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 2:47:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Molotov357:
I didn't know CRTs even still existed. Maybe you should call up the Smithsonian and tell you have one.


Really?

I have five CRT's that I don't use.

I will sell them for $1,000.00 each as a package.
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