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Posted: 8/16/2007 8:47:11 AM EDT
LAPD Pot Raids Draw Controversy
Posted: August 16th, 2007 10:58 AM EDT

STEVE HYMON, Times Staff Writer
Los Angeles Times

Los Angeles police said Wednesday that they will continue to participate in federal raids on local medical marijuana dispensaries against the wishes of some members of the City Council.

A continuing conflict between federal and state drug laws, they said, has created a stalemate that doesn't appear likely to soon end.

Officials with the Los Angeles Police Department contend that it's their job to help enforce the federal law. Council members argue that police raids, at best, send a mixed message about the city's support for the state law passed in 1996 to permit the use of marijuana for prescribed medical purposes.

The discussion before the council Wednesday sparked sharp exchanges between council members and LAPD Cmdr. David R. Doan.

At one point, a frustrated Councilman Bill Rosendahl told Doan, "You are the policing organization that follows the laws that we put in place. [It's] not for you to interpret them."

Later, under more questioning, Doan refused to waver. "If it's going to be our position to say we're not going to help the [Drug Enforcement Administration], I'm not authorized to make that statement today," Doan said.


The council last month placed a yearlong moratorium on permitting new dispensaries in the city while lawyers draw up an ordinance to regulate them. At the time, several members of the council reiterated their support for the state law that allows medical marijuana dispensaries to exist.

On the same day the council passed the moratorium, the DEA raided 10 dispensaries in Los Angeles, with LAPD officers providing logistical support. DEA officials said the timing of the raids was a coincidence and that they were merely enforcing federal law, which continues to prohibit any sale of marijuana.

As supporters of medical marijuana looked on, frequently applauding or booing during Wednesday's discussion, Doan told council members that the LAPD had a positive relationship with the DEA -- which helps with drug enforcement in the city -- and didn't want to risk damaging that relationship. It is also LAPD policy, Doan said, to provide assistance with lawful federal warrants.

Doan said that it is the LAPD's view that some of the city's more than 200 dispensaries are a nuisance to their communities and that some are violating the state law that mandates they not profit on their sales.

However, Doan said he did not know why the DEA targeted the dispensaries that it did last month, nor did the LAPD apparently ask before agreeing to help with the raids.

DEA spokeswoman Sarah Pullen said Wednesday that the agency was not revealing the reasons it chose to raid the 10 facilities and that warrants for the searches remained under seal.

"The bottom line is anyone distributing marijuana is in violation of federal law," Pullen said.

Both Rosendahl and Doan said that it remained unclear whether the council ultimately had the authority to tell the LAPD whether it was permitted to participate in the DEA raids. Local laws often shield police from such orders as a way to guard against political abuses.

Councilwoman Janice Hahn said the LAPD didn't always follow the federal lead. Over the years, the LAPD has ignored federal immigration laws and chosen not to ask people about their immigration status as a way to build a better relationship with the community, she said.

"When we come back with our new regulations, I will be one of those who will ask the LAPD to rethink your policy," Hahn said.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 8:50:02 AM EDT
[#1]
legalize it and tax it
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 8:52:09 AM EDT
[#2]

Over the years, the LAPD has ignored federal immigration laws and chosen not to ask people about their immigration status as a way to build a better relationship with the community, she said.


So which one pays better, busting up state-legal businesses or illegal aliens?

What does more damage to the community, pot stores or illegal aliens?

Your answers are hiding behind those questions.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 8:56:55 AM EDT
[#3]
REEFER MADNESS!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 9:10:23 AM EDT
[#4]
this wouldn't be a problem if our gov was still "by and for the people"...
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 9:15:18 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Over the years, the LAPD has ignored federal immigration laws and chosen not to ask people about their immigration status as a way to build a better relationship with the community, she said.


So which one pays better, busting up state-legal businesses or illegal aliens?


I'll bet they are not state legal businesses. If they are for profit they are not covered under the medical marijuana law. Plus they have to meet all the zoning issues and permits of any other business.

Ironically one local dispensary was shut down because they refused to retrofit the building to be handcapped acessable. seems they were more interested in dispensing to surfers than those with real medical conditions.  
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 9:30:46 AM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:

Over the years, the LAPD has ignored federal immigration laws and chosen not to ask people about their immigration status as a way to build a better relationship with the community, she said.


So which one pays better, busting up state-legal businesses or illegal aliens?

What does more damage to the community, pot stores or illegal aliens?

Your answers are hiding behind those questions.


What good does it do to ask them their legal status when local officer can't arrest for immigration law violations and if you do arrest them on a state/local charge ICE won't come get them?


Also from what I saw of the raids, LAPD was basiclly traffic control during these raids.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 9:51:11 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:


Officials with the Los Angeles Police Department contend that it's their job to help enforce the federal law.


How 'bout those Federal immigration laws and the millions of illegasl in LA???
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 9:57:08 AM EDT
[#8]
Kinda why we unite here...


Quoted:
this wouldn't be a problem if our gov was still "by and for the people"...
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:05:20 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
legalize it and tax it


Tax for revenue, or punitive tax?

Why is either appropriate?
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:13:05 AM EDT
[#10]



so, the LAPD is deciding which policy it will enforce and which policy it will not enforce, *despite* the wishes of the local government?

how does that NOT make the LAPD a rogue paramilitary organization?


Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:15:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Selective enforcement.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:15:52 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:


so, the LAPD is deciding which policy it will enforce and which policy it will not enforce, *despite* the wishes of the local government?


Yes, it appears they are deciding what laws they will enforce and which laws they will ignore.



how does that NOT make the LAPD a rogue paramilitary organization?


Isn't that a very interesting question.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:26:20 AM EDT
[#13]
LAPD is participating in federal raids on medical marijuana dispensaries...

huh... well...

Why doesn't the LAPD participate with I.C.E. to raid employers of illegal aliens?

I smell the future… it’s manure.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 11:12:25 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
legalize it and tax it

+1

but why tax it if you can grow it in your back yard ? Thats like taxing tomatoes .
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 1:55:49 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
legalize it and tax it


Tax for revenue, or punitive tax?

Why is either appropriate?


for revenue, just for the sake the .gov actualy does legalize it.  If they have nothing to gain by it becoming legal theres no way the greedy bastards will let it be sold
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 1:59:19 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
legalize it and tax it

+1

but why tax it if you can grow it in your back yard ? Thats like taxing tomatoes .


I'd just tax the stuff sold in stores.

kinda like tomatoes, depending on what state your in, all groceries are taxed.
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 12:15:34 AM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

but why tax it if you can grow it in your back yard ? Thats like taxing tomatoes .


And what we do now makes as much sense as banning tomatoes.  Legalize, no taxes.
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 12:54:11 AM EDT
[#18]
My great uncle grew/dried his own tobacco until he passed on a couple of years ago, at the tender ago of 98
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 1:43:19 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
legalize it and tax it


its already taxable


oh yeah, watch this video  of the testimony of Irv Rosenfeld regarding medical Marijuana. He is very well spoken and to the point. same guy that was on penn & teller. he is currently the on the federal government's medical marijuana program.



I think it should be legalized and NOT taxed or regulated. I have NEVER personally used/smoked/consumed Marijuana.
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 2:04:02 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
legalize it and tax it

+1

but why tax it if you can grow it in your back yard ? Thats like taxing tomatoes .


Tomatoes are not an intoxicant.  Can you distill your own liquor in the backyard still without paying taxes?  Why not?  
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 4:44:42 AM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Over the years, the LAPD has ignored federal immigration laws and chosen not to ask people about their immigration status as a way to build a better relationship with the community, she said.


So which one pays better, busting up state-legal businesses or illegal aliens?


I'll bet they are not state legal businesses. If they are for profit they are not covered under the medical marijuana law. Plus they have to meet all the zoning issues and permits of any other business.

Ironically one local dispensary was shut down because they refused to retrofit the building to be handcapped acessable. seems they were more interested in dispensing to surfers than those with real medical conditions.  


Wrong. SB420, now law, says that caregivers are entitled to "reasonable compensation." Everywhere else in law, "reasonable compensation" is:

1) Determined solely by the parties in the transaction and no one else and;
2) includes "profit"

In judging "reasonable compensation" you might ask yourself what is "reasonable compensation" for an activity that could get your property seized and someone thrown in jail.
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 4:52:29 AM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
legalize it and tax it


Tax for revenue, or punitive tax?

Why is either appropriate?


for revenue, just for the sake the .gov actualy does legalize it.  If they have nothing to gain by it becoming legal theres no way the greedy bastards will let it be sold


You missed the point entirely.  Giving the .gov the ability to tax something just to make it legal is no justification for said taxes.  The fact that any idiot can grow weed means that very little tax will be collected anyway.  Thus, the existence of a tax will once again give rise to some regulatory scheme to enforce taxation laws.  At the very least, home growers woul dnto be immune from the tax.


Wrong. The best economic analyses done so far indicate that it would produce at least two billion to six billion in taxes nationwide. That is at the low-end estimate of the market at ten billion dollars. The market may be as big as fifty billion or more.

And growing good stuff is not that easy. It requires enough time, expense, and labor that most people would opt to buy it -- for the same reason they opt to buy wine rather than make it (and it takes less time and effort to make wine).

You can find some economic studies of the subject at Let Us Pay Taxes


It seems logical that a tax levied on something should have some relation to the object taxed, for example, gas is taxed with the understanding that the revenue goes toward roads.  There is no reason to tax marijuana, as it's use does not require supporting infrastructure.


That's a good logical argument. However, the sellers of the marijuana are now willing to pay the taxes just to settle the issue. There is always the theory that marijuana causes some significant health harm that should be covered by taxes. That's not really a good argument, but taxing it would be better than the current situation.


BTW:  Marijuana was taxed for a time, then straight up banned.  The pattern is very similar to the strategy used to regulate guns.  If there isn't political will, or constitutional authority, place a tax on it.  Later, when times change, go for the full on ban.


No, the tax was intended to be a ban from Day One. Once the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 was passed, there was no intention ever to collect the tax. It was purely for prohibition. You can see it discussed in the hearings for the Marihuana Tax Act
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 4:54:08 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
legalize it and tax it

+1

but why tax it if you can grow it in your back yard ? Thats like taxing tomatoes .


Tomatoes are not an intoxicant.  Can you distill your own liquor in the backyard still without paying taxes?  Why not?  


You can make your own wine or beer without paying taxes.
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 5:11:17 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:


Tomatoes are not an intoxicant.  Can you distill your own liquor in the backyard still without paying taxes?  Why not?  



There is no logical reason why you can't make your own liquor. The .gov just wants their cut.
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 5:13:24 AM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Over the years, the LAPD has ignored federal immigration laws and chosen not to ask people about their immigration status as a way to build a better relationship with the community, she said.


So which one pays better, busting up state-legal businesses or illegal aliens?

What does more damage to the community, pot stores or illegal aliens?

Your answers are hiding behind those questions.


Bingo. Illegals have nothing to steal.  Drug raids can net you the houses, cars, and bank accounts of the "criminals".

I have a lot of respect for the crap that LEOs go through most of the time, but the forfeiture laws have turned them into common thieves.
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 5:34:10 AM EDT
[#26]
gotta keep those illegal aliens stoned 24/7, makes 'em work harder
Link Posted: 8/17/2007 5:51:40 AM EDT
[#27]

Officials with the Los Angeles Police Department contend that it's their job to help enforce the federal law.




How 'bout enforcing those immigration laws??  Huh, huh,  what about that???
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