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Posted: 8/23/2006 11:45:21 PM EDT
It looks like the loony left has nothing better to do than bash the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot these days. It seems that the Southern Poverty Law Center has a problem with machine gun owners. I guess if you attend this years fall shoot you might be branded as a neo-nazi or extremist. It must scare the hell out of them to think that some citizens can lawfully own a machine gun.

Big Bang Article Link

____________________________________________________________________________________
Big Bang
The Knob Creek machine gun shoot attracts people of all kinds, including neo-Nazis and other extremists. But Folks get along just fine as they revel in an orgy of firepower.
by David Holthouse


WEST POINT, Ky. -- Wearing orange foam earplugs to muffle the nearby thunder of relentless automatic weapons fire, a grizzled man with SS lightning bolt tattoos on his forearms pulls a little red wagon loaded with rifle ammunition. Carefully picking his way through the teeming crowd, he passes table after table laden with machine guns, gas masks, combat knives, war memorabilia and bomb-making guides. The man sheds his camouflage tactical vest to reveal a worn black T-shirt emblazoned with a Totenkopf, the Death's Head symbol of the Waffen SS. Then he parks his wagon to join a huddle of shoppers surrounding a hard-faced spokeswoman from Valkyrie Arms who's extolling the virtues of the Olympia, Wash.-based arms maker's new product, the Valkyrior 556 Rotary Gun.

"It's .223-caliber, six barrels, basically you're looking at a hand-cranked mini-gun," she says.

The man asks, "What's the rate of fire?"

"Just as fast as you can crank it," she replies. "We just shipped a load of these babies to civilian security contractors in Iraq for convoy protection. When I go to sleep tonight, I'll dream of towel heads splattering all over the place."

"We need to ship a few to the border and start splattering Mexicans," he says.

Then he picks up his wagon handle and continues browsing the wares. Two hundred yards away, around the Knob Creek Gun Range's lower shooting area, hundreds of men, women and children are lined up like kids at Disneyland to rent and shoot M-16s, Uzis, AK-47s, SPAS 12 full-auto shotguns, vintage Tommy Guns and Heckler & Koch MP-5s. A teenaged boy wearing a shirt with a grinning Jane Fonda and the words "Commie Traitor Bitch" pays $25 to rip 20 bullets through a .30-06 caliber BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). "Man," he says, grinning and shaking the BAR owner's hand. "That's one hell of a rush."

'Go Hot!'
At a former naval proving ground near Fort Knox, the hills are alive with the sound of gunfire, as the semi-annual Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot gets under way. Billed as "the nation's largest machine gun shoot and military gun show," the Knob Creek festival, which takes place every April and October, is a frenzied exhibition of firepower to rival a bad day in Mogadishu. On the upper range, which is reserved for heavy weaponry, the rental guns include a belt-fed M-60 ($40 for 50 rounds, $75 for 100), a 1917 British-made Vickers Mark 1, and a Civil War-era Gatling gun. The main attraction, though, is a six-barrel M134 Minigun, which is powered by a General Electric motor and sends 4,000 rounds of hot lead per minute downrange. Retail price: roughly $225,000.

Every half hour or so, the upper range master declares a cease-fire. Festival workers remove the smoldering wreckage of junker cars and household appliances and then freshen up the supply of targets. During these breaks, a flamethrower operator suits up rental customers in silver stunt man suits and lets 'em rip for $195 per tank. Nearby, the crew of a privately owned field artillery gun pumps huge shells into a denuded hillside, drawing cheers from the bleachers. The concussive force of the explosions trigger hundreds of car alarms inside the vehicles lining both sides of a rural highway half a mile away, up a muddy hill and across a creek from the Knob Creek Gun Range entrance. The whoops and buzzes of the alarms are nearly drowned out by the dragon's roar of the flamethrower, and then sonically obliterated by dozens of machine guns that erupt when the upper range master announces, "Go hot!"

The Knob Creek shoot started in 1979 as a local event, but now attracts machine gun enthusiasts from across the county. Attendance tops 10,000. Throughout the 1990s, it was a major gathering point and recruiting ground for antigovernment, paramilitary militias. They held meetings in the festival campground and leadership summits at hotels in nearby Shephardsville. In April 1998, a dust-up between leaders of the U.S. Theater Command and the Southeastern States Alliance at a militia unity conference during the Knob Creek shoot caused a lasting split that weakened the movement.

Knob Creek organizers have for years insisted that the majority of people who come to their machine gun festivals are not white supremacists or militia members. While that's probably true, a survey of tattoos, patches, T-shirt symbols, and merchandise at the April 2006 events provided strong evidence of a significant extremist presence. Sonny Landham, the 1980s action movie star who now shills for the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens, signed autographs and distributed CCC literature at his booth near a hot-dog stand. Print and CD editions of the racist fantasy novel The Turner Diaries were widely available, along with copies of the U.S. Militiaman's Handbook, a guide to armed insurrection during "R-2," the second American Revolution.

"When municipal, township, county, or local area law enforcement agents attack or seek to confine or control the U.S. Militia or its individual members, those agencies should be totally eliminated in the initial attack," the handbook advises. "Do not allow any law enforcement agents to escape. Kill them all."

While most of the violent extremist materials for sale were scattered amidst more innocuous items, one booth at the April 2006 shoot, housed in gun show stall C-22, offered nothing but hate paraphernalia: hundreds of neo-Nazi, white power, and hate rock T-shirts; Adolf Hitler, Rudolf Hess and Eva Braun coffee mugs; Hitler youth flags; and Celtic cross "White Pride World Wide" banners.

'This is America'
"I do not think of us as an extremist or militia gathering, but we do not regulate any items sold," Knob Creek Gun Range owner and festival chief Kenny Sumner wrote to the Intelligence Report, responding to E-mailed questions about booth C-22. "If someone wants to sell white supremacist and neo-Nazi crap, that's OK with me. If it offends anyone, they don't have to stop at that vendor's table. It's just like strip clubs. I don't care nothing about them and they can be wherever they want. I have the ability to stop in or drive by. This is America and we do have the right to choose. That's why I do not restrict any of the vendors at our show."

Rob Walker, who describes himself as "the fat, happy guy handing out Shotgun News," has attended the past 15 Knob Creek shoots as part of his job for a New York City magazine publishing house. "I have never perceived an air of hate," Walker says. "In fact, I've seen people of all races having a great time together."

In past years, Walker says, "The militia groups simply used the huge draw of the KCR [Knob Creek Range] shoot to entice a greater amount of attendance at their little meetings, but they were never officially affiliated with KCR. Now, I've never seen anything more disturbing than some truly tasteless T-shirts. While I'd prefer to not even stand next to someone wearing a few of those shirts, it's the First Amendment and I won't argue with that."

Beginning in 2004, Walker has distributed materials on "genocide and gun ownership" produced by the far-right JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) at Knob Creek shoots. "Not only was that well received, it was never scoffed at," he says. "The materials were well marked as being from a Jewish group. Never have I heard a single anti-Semitic utterance."

Saturday Night Special
The Saturday night climax of every Knob Creek machine gun festival is the famous "night shoot." On the upper range, heavy machine gunners load their weapons with phosphorus tracer rounds and take aim through night vision goggles at glow sticks marking 50-gallon drums filled with gasoline and strapped with sticks of dynamite. The signal for the night shoot to begin is the whirring arrival of a black helicopter, its M-60 door gun spewing chartreuse tracer rounds from the sky.

The fiery explosions illuminate the grinning faces of thousands. The vast majority of them are white. But just as Walker claimed, there are a few blacks and Hispanics. All are unified, at least for the moment, in the taboo joy of mass destruction as spectator sport.


Intelligence Report
Summer 2006
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 11:51:55 PM EDT
You're not actually surprised by this are you? I'm surprised it took them this long to set their sights on Knob Creek. ( pun intended)
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 12:02:21 AM EDT
Why would any event organizer allow people to promote these kinds of beliefs at any event they run? While theres a freedom of speech issue that one could argue, you KNOW that its people like these that will be included in media coverage of that event, like the grizzled guy in the OD green jacket being the one that gets interviewed by the local media when the gun show is in town....gun owners have it tough enough with public opinion without having these sorts of guys associated with us.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 12:05:16 AM EDT
There was a guy there selling steel targets a couple years ago, one of them was a running "negro" target. My jaw dropped because before I saw it I passed a very well-built African American in his marine uni.

As cool as the Knob is, I think it does attract some crazies, which is not always good for our cause....but always good for entertainment.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 12:12:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Why would any event organizer allow people to promote these kinds of beliefs at any event they run? While theres a freedom of speech issue that one could argue, you KNOW that its people like these that will be included in media coverage of that event, like the grizzled guy in the OD green jacket being the one that gets interviewed by the local media when the gun show is in town....gun owners have it tough enough with public opinion without having these sorts of guys associated with us.


BECAUSE THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS TYPICALLY BELIEVE THAT ANYONE CAN SAY WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT!
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 12:39:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SpecialOperator:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
BECAUSE THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS TYPICALLY BELIEVE THAT ANYONE CAN SAY WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT!


Even when it comes to comments about racial supperiority? THATS the kind of people you really want to be associated with? I don't! Yes, you can say whatever you want to a degree in this country; it doesn't mean that people have to associate with you. Especially now when its guys liek this that the media will focus on to the exclusion of the regular Joes attending the event being covered.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 12:56:58 AM EDT
Just why in the hell is it called the SOUTHERN Poverty Law Center ?



Link Posted: 8/24/2006 1:01:38 AM EDT
Morris Dees and his Southern Poverty Law Center can kiss my ass.


nice pic of Vahan with the M60 though
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 1:05:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 1:07:46 AM EDT by pv74]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By SpecialOperator:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
BECAUSE THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS TYPICALLY BELIEVE THAT ANYONE CAN SAY WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT!


Even when it comes to comments about racial supperiority? THATS the kind of people you really want to be associated with? I don't! Yes, you can say whatever you want to a degree in this country; it doesn't mean that people have to associate with you. Especially now when its guys liek this that the media will focus on to the exclusion of the regular Joes attending the event being covered.


I don't wish to be associated with militia nuts or 88/ white supremecist types.
These people do nothing but ruin the image of our sport. They are an embaressment.
I hate going to gunshows and seeing that crap, especially with someone new to the sport. It turns them off to it.

Fact is, we need more people on our side. People from other than the white race.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 1:14:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:
Just why in the hell is it called the SOUTHERN Poverty Law Center ?


Because the center is based in Alabama....
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 1:44:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 1:48:51 AM EDT by gus]
This is why it was decided NOT to allow reporters in to Bulletfest. It's also why racist turds are generally not tolerated (by the attendees). Sounds like Knob Creek needs to clean house. 1st Ammendment or not, it's private property and a closed event (with admission charged) and Kenny could put a stop to it without violating anyone's rights. I've never seen one obvious 88'er at BF, and certainly no vendors selling crap like that.

ETA: It's also part of why 88 types are removed from here as quickly as they are found out. That and they disgust the owners and most of the membership.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 2:24:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By K9-Bob:

Saturday Night Special
The Saturday night climax of every Knob Creek machine gun festival is the famous "night shoot." On the upper range, heavy machine gunners load their weapons with phosphorus tracer rounds and take aim through night vision goggles at glow sticks marking 50-gallon drums filled with gasoline and strapped with sticks of dynamite. The signal for the night shoot to begin is the whirring arrival of a black helicopter, its M-60 door gun spewing chartreuse tracer rounds from the sky.




That is all I need to read. I dont believe tracers come in that "color" if it really is a color. Thus I do not believe anything else he wrote!


Link Posted: 8/24/2006 3:45:42 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By gus:
Sounds like Knob Creek needs to clean house. 1st Ammendment or not, it's private property and a closed event (with admission charged) and Kenny could put a stop to it without violating anyone's rights.


You need to read the article please:

height=8

""I do not think of us as an extremist or militia gathering, but we do not regulate any items sold," Knob Creek Gun Range owner and festival chief Kenny Sumner wrote to the Intelligence Report...

If someone wants to sell white supremacist and neo-Nazi crap, that's OK with me. If it offends anyone, they don't have to stop at that vendor's table. It's just like strip clubs. I don't care nothing about them and they can be wherever they want. I have the ability to stop in or drive by. This is America and we do have the right to choose. That's why I do not restrict any of the vendors at our show."


Kenny's not worried about violating anyone rights. If you don't like the racists there, don't go.

I personally think people who hold racist views are seriously misguided, but what do I care? I don't go around trying to make sure everyone holds "proper" views.

NN
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 3:56:58 AM EDT
Not in my lifetime (I'm an old fart), but eventually these shoots will be nothing more than a distant memory as will be guns, after the 2nd is repealed.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:08:53 AM EDT
Funny how any organization or event that includes the New Black Panthers doesn't get the scrutiny of the Southern Poverty Law Center. A bit of a double standard? Nah, not in this country.....
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:12:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 4:13:00 AM EDT by opti12206]
Holy shit. I have to go to the next one. It sounds awesome. I can finally shoot a GE mini gun.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:13:24 AM EDT
Then he parks his wagon to join a huddle of shoppers surrounding a hard-faced spokeswoman from Valkyrie Arms who's extolling the virtues of the Olympia, Wash.-based arms maker's new product, the Valkyrior 556 Rotary Gun.

"It's .223-caliber, six barrels, basically you're looking at a hand-cranked mini-gun," she says.

The man asks, "What's the rate of fire?"

"Just as fast as you can crank it," she replies. "We just shipped a load of these babies to civilian security contractors in Iraq for convoy protection. When I go to sleep tonight, I'll dream of towel heads splattering all over the place."



Last fall and this past April I was there and talked to that lady. In April she was still working on the feed and ejection mechanism. So I'm inclined to believe she has shipped nothing as of April 06. The State Dept would have her jumping thru hoops to authorize export of her item. I kinda doubt they would OK it.

I do not recall seeing Nazi crap for sale there either. Not saying racist types dont attend but they werent "In your face".

I am doubting "Mailcall" and "Shooting Gallery" would shoot episodes at KC if that racist crap was prevalent there.

So Im calling on the premise of the article, typos and all. Not the original poster.

Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:13:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911lover:
Not in my lifetime (I'm an old fart), but eventually these shoots will be nothing more than a distant memory as will be guns, after the 2nd is repealed.



Your lack of faith in my generation is disturbing.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:19:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:21:39 AM EDT

Saturday Night Special...

I find it ironic when a communist that claims to be anti-racist uses a racist term. I'm sure most of us here find that term disgusting.z
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:23:44 AM EDT
Sounds like a party, I need to go sometime.

Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:26:45 AM EDT
"Intelligence Report
Summer 2006"

Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:28:30 AM EDT
A guy wearing a “death head” T-shirt is proof that the whole thing is racist and supports the Nazi party?

Using that logic we can deduce that if they have any event where someone attends in a Malcolm X shirt the entire group is racist and if anyone shows up in a “Che” shirt their organization is Communist too.

Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:31:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Your lack of faith in my generation is disturbing.


I have a HUGE lack of faith because of the voting apathy. We need to elect officials that will stand up for our rights. I don't see any representatives so far in Washington doing anything about Kalifornia or Illinois or NY, NJ, etc. with their anti second amendment laws. If the supreme court refuses to rule on gun laws as unconstitutional, they have neutered the second amendment by default. Without state representatives willing to protect gun rights in spite of this, we can be in big trouble.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:37:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By K9-Bob:
It looks like the loony left has nothing better to do than bash the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot these days. It seems that the Southern Poverty Law Center has a problem with machine gun owners. I guess if you attend this years fall shoot you might be branded as a neo-nazi or extremist. It must scare the hell out of them to think that some citizens can lawfully own a machine gun.

Big Bang Article Link

____________________________________________________________________________________
Big Bang
The Knob Creek machine gun shoot attracts people of all kinds, including neo-Nazis and other extremists. But Folks get along just fine as they revel in an orgy of firepower.
by David Holthouse


WEST POINT, Ky. -- Wearing orange foam earplugs to muffle the nearby thunder of relentless automatic weapons fire, a grizzled man with SS lightning bolt tattoos on his forearms pulls a little red wagon loaded with rifle ammunition. Carefully picking his way through the teeming crowd, he passes table after table laden with machine guns, gas masks, combat knives, war memorabilia and bomb-making guides. The man sheds his camouflage tactical vest to reveal a worn black T-shirt emblazoned with a Totenkopf, the Death's Head symbol of the Waffen SS. Then he parks his wagon to join a huddle of shoppers surrounding a hard-faced spokeswoman from Valkyrie Arms who's extolling the virtues of the Olympia, Wash.-based arms maker's new product, the Valkyrior 556 Rotary Gun.

"It's .223-caliber, six barrels, basically you're looking at a hand-cranked mini-gun," she says.

The man asks, "What's the rate of fire?"

"Just as fast as you can crank it," she replies. "We just shipped a load of these babies to civilian security contractors in Iraq for convoy protection. When I go to sleep tonight, I'll dream of towel heads splattering all over the place."

"We need to ship a few to the border and start splattering Mexicans," he says.

Then he picks up his wagon handle and continues browsing the wares. Two hundred yards away, around the Knob Creek Gun Range's lower shooting area, hundreds of men, women and children are lined up like kids at Disneyland to rent and shoot M-16s, Uzis, AK-47s, SPAS 12 full-auto shotguns, vintage Tommy Guns and Heckler & Koch MP-5s. A teenaged boy wearing a shirt with a grinning Jane Fonda and the words "Commie Traitor Bitch" pays $25 to rip 20 bullets through a .30-06 caliber BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). "Man," he says, grinning and shaking the BAR owner's hand. "That's one hell of a rush."

'Go Hot!'
At a former naval proving ground near Fort Knox, the hills are alive with the sound of gunfire, as the semi-annual Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot gets under way. Billed as "the nation's largest machine gun shoot and military gun show," the Knob Creek festival, which takes place every April and October, is a frenzied exhibition of firepower to rival a bad day in Mogadishu. On the upper range, which is reserved for heavy weaponry, the rental guns include a belt-fed M-60 ($40 for 50 rounds, $75 for 100), a 1917 British-made Vickers Mark 1, and a Civil War-era Gatling gun. The main attraction, though, is a six-barrel M134 Minigun, which is powered by a General Electric motor and sends 4,000 rounds of hot lead per minute downrange. Retail price: roughly $225,000.

Every half hour or so, the upper range master declares a cease-fire. Festival workers remove the smoldering wreckage of junker cars and household appliances and then freshen up the supply of targets. During these breaks, a flamethrower operator suits up rental customers in silver stunt man suits and lets 'em rip for $195 per tank. Nearby, the crew of a privately owned field artillery gun pumps huge shells into a denuded hillside, drawing cheers from the bleachers. The concussive force of the explosions trigger hundreds of car alarms inside the vehicles lining both sides of a rural highway half a mile away, up a muddy hill and across a creek from the Knob Creek Gun Range entrance. The whoops and buzzes of the alarms are nearly drowned out by the dragon's roar of the flamethrower, and then sonically obliterated by dozens of machine guns that erupt when the upper range master announces, "Go hot!"

The Knob Creek shoot started in 1979 as a local event, but now attracts machine gun enthusiasts from across the county. Attendance tops 10,000. Throughout the 1990s, it was a major gathering point and recruiting ground for antigovernment, paramilitary militias. They held meetings in the festival campground and leadership summits at hotels in nearby Shephardsville. In April 1998, a dust-up between leaders of the U.S. Theater Command and the Southeastern States Alliance at a militia unity conference during the Knob Creek shoot caused a lasting split that weakened the movement.

Knob Creek organizers have for years insisted that the majority of people who come to their machine gun festivals are not white supremacists or militia members. While that's probably true, a survey of tattoos, patches, T-shirt symbols, and merchandise at the April 2006 events provided strong evidence of a significant extremist presence. Sonny Landham, the 1980s action movie star who now shills for the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens, signed autographs and distributed CCC literature at his booth near a hot-dog stand. Print and CD editions of the racist fantasy novel The Turner Diaries were widely available, along with copies of the U.S. Militiaman's Handbook, a guide to armed insurrection during "R-2," the second American Revolution.

"When municipal, township, county, or local area law enforcement agents attack or seek to confine or control the U.S. Militia or its individual members, those agencies should be totally eliminated in the initial attack," the handbook advises. "Do not allow any law enforcement agents to escape. Kill them all."

While most of the violent extremist materials for sale were scattered amidst more innocuous items, one booth at the April 2006 shoot, housed in gun show stall C-22, offered nothing but hate paraphernalia: hundreds of neo-Nazi, white power, and hate rock T-shirts; Adolf Hitler, Rudolf Hess and Eva Braun coffee mugs; Hitler youth flags; and Celtic cross "White Pride World Wide" banners.

'This is America'
"I do not think of us as an extremist or militia gathering, but we do not regulate any items sold," Knob Creek Gun Range owner and festival chief Kenny Sumner wrote to the Intelligence Report, responding to E-mailed questions about booth C-22. "If someone wants to sell white supremacist and neo-Nazi crap, that's OK with me. If it offends anyone, they don't have to stop at that vendor's table. It's just like strip clubs. I don't care nothing about them and they can be wherever they want. I have the ability to stop in or drive by. This is America and we do have the right to choose. That's why I do not restrict any of the vendors at our show."

Rob Walker, who describes himself as "the fat, happy guy handing out Shotgun News," has attended the past 15 Knob Creek shoots as part of his job for a New York City magazine publishing house. "I have never perceived an air of hate," Walker says. "In fact, I've seen people of all races having a great time together."

In past years, Walker says, "The militia groups simply used the huge draw of the KCR [Knob Creek Range] shoot to entice a greater amount of attendance at their little meetings, but they were never officially affiliated with KCR. Now, I've never seen anything more disturbing than some truly tasteless T-shirts. While I'd prefer to not even stand next to someone wearing a few of those shirts, it's the First Amendment and I won't argue with that."

Beginning in 2004, Walker has distributed materials on "genocide and gun ownership" produced by the far-right JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) at Knob Creek shoots. "Not only was that well received, it was never scoffed at," he says. "The materials were well marked as being from a Jewish group. Never have I heard a single anti-Semitic utterance."

Saturday Night Special
The Saturday night climax of every Knob Creek machine gun festival is the famous "night shoot." On the upper range, heavy machine gunners load their weapons with phosphorus tracer rounds and take aim through night vision goggles at glow sticks marking 50-gallon drums filled with gasoline and strapped with sticks of dynamite. The signal for the night shoot to begin is the whirring arrival of a black helicopter, its M-60 door gun spewing chartreuse tracer rounds from the sky.

The fiery explosions illuminate the grinning faces of thousands. The vast majority of them are white. But just as Walker claimed, there are a few blacks and Hispanics. All are unified, at least for the moment, in the taboo joy of mass destruction as spectator sport.


Intelligence Report
Summer 2006


I dream the same dreams.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:41:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By pv74:
These people do nothing but ruin the image of our sport.


Gun ownership is NOT a sport. Part of the problem is that far too many people view it as that.


sport  /spɔrt, spoʊrt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spawrt, spohrt]
–noun
1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2. a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors.
3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.

Shooting is certainly a sport .


Gun collecting / shooting is also a hobby .


Just because it is both of those doesn't mean it is also other things. I seriously doubt there is a person on this board who does not enjoy shooting, and only owns guns for "defensive purposes"
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:44:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:45:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 4:47:40 AM EDT by bullyforyou]

Originally Posted By pv74:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By SpecialOperator:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
BECAUSE THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS TYPICALLY BELIEVE THAT ANYONE CAN SAY WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT!


Even when it comes to comments about racial supperiority? THATS the kind of people you really want to be associated with? I don't! Yes, you can say whatever you want to a degree in this country; it doesn't mean that people have to associate with you. Especially now when its guys liek this that the media will focus on to the exclusion of the regular Joes attending the event being covered.


I don't wish to be associated with militia nuts or 88/ white supremecist types.
These people do nothing but ruin the image of our sport. They are an embaressment.
I hate going to gunshows and seeing that crap, especially with someone new to the sport. It turns them off to it.

Fact is, we need more people on our side. People from other than the white race.


hmm. good point. we need to get rid of the people who want only white people on "our side", and replace them only with "people from other than the white race"...

nice.

look people, i'm not supporting neo-nazis here, but the fact is they are everywhere. if the media, for some reason, decided it wanted grocery stores shut down, do you really think they would have a hard time finding a couple racist morons over the course of a weekend to interview as part of their smear campaign? and if you shop at that same store, does that mean you are also "one of them"? ETA: DAMN! in behind TimJ with my grocery store analogy. i thought that was going to be a good one too. must type faster...

the problem isn't "white supremacists" or "militias" or any other buzz word or catch phrase. the problem is that the media HATES GUNS, and they will go that extra mile to make sure that gun owners look as bad as possible. if you got rid of all the neo-nazis, they would focus on the "militia members". if you got rid of them, they would focus on the "bikers". if you got rid of them, they would focus on the "goth kids".

so let's just get rid of everyone that doesn't fit the nice little suburban upper-middle class mold. that way, the media can portray us as mentally diseased idiots who need to be saved from ourselves since "even neo-nazis, 'bikers', 'goth kids', and 'militia members' wouldn't be seen at such an event."


Link Posted: 8/24/2006 4:53:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By K9-Bob:
... Folks get along just fine as they revel in an orgy of firepower...






I think the fella they sent to report on this likes to revel in his own special kind of orgy.

Don't ask, don't tell.

Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:02:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 5:10:40 AM EDT by DvlDog]
K9,
i think its a bit reactionary to label that article as an assault on knob creek. that article is pretty dead-on. it doesnt call for the end of knob creek, it does not argue against civilian machinegun ownership and it doesnt assault or offend gun owners. I thought it did a pretty good job of offering credible counterpoints in the form of reputible quotes.

as a mattrer of fact...your overly dramatic quotes "It seems that the Southern Poverty Law Center has a problem with machine gun owners." and "It must scare the hell out of them to think that some citizens can lawfully own a machine gun." is the same kind of alarmist bullshit that the VPC uses in their anti-gun campaigns.



lets face it....as gun owners we are our own worst enemy. for some reason the "gun culture" atracts society losers like moths to a porch light. everytime i go to a gunshow 50% of the crowd is pure scum with putrid body odor, neckbeards, wolf t-shirts and at least 1 item of camoflage. good wholesome image
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:08:00 AM EDT
wow, that's one real fucked up way of looking at it
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:08:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

Originally Posted By pv74:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By SpecialOperator:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
BECAUSE THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS TYPICALLY BELIEVE THAT ANYONE CAN SAY WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT!


Even when it comes to comments about racial supperiority? THATS the kind of people you really want to be associated with? I don't! Yes, you can say whatever you want to a degree in this country; it doesn't mean that people have to associate with you. Especially now when its guys liek this that the media will focus on to the exclusion of the regular Joes attending the event being covered.


I don't wish to be associated with militia nuts or 88/ white supremecist types.
These people do nothing but ruin the image of our sport. They are an embaressment.
I hate going to gunshows and seeing that crap, especially with someone new to the sport. It turns them off to it.

Fact is, we need more people on our side. People from other than the white race.


hmm. good point. we need to get rid of the people who want only white people on "our side", and replace them only with "people from other than the white race"...

nice.

look people, i'm not supporting neo-nazis here, but the fact is they are everywhere. if the media, for some reason, decided it wanted grocery stores shut down, do you really think they would have a hard time finding a couple racist morons over the course of a weekend to interview as part of their smear campaign? and if you shop at that same store, does that mean you are also "one of them"? ETA: DAMN! in behind TimJ with my grocery store analogy. i thought that was going to be a good one too. must type faster...

the problem isn't "white supremacists" or "militias" or any other buzz word or catch phrase. the problem is that the media HATES GUNS, and they will go that extra mile to make sure that gun owners look as bad as possible. if you got rid of all the neo-nazis, they would focus on the "militia members". if you got rid of them, they would focus on the "bikers". if you got rid of them, they would focus on the "goth kids".

so let's just get rid of everyone that doesn't fit the nice little suburban upper-middle class mold. that way, the media can portray us as mentally diseased idiots who need to be saved from ourselves since "even neo-nazis, 'bikers', 'goth kids', and 'militia members' wouldn't be seen at such an event."




The message that the Poverty Law Center sending is.......if your NOT WHITE do not attended Knob Creek because they hate YOU. Gunowners are ALL NAZIs that will take your rights away and murder you if they get a chance.

Your only hope is to support The Southern Poverty Law Center and vote for Hillary Clinton in 2008.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:12:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By K9-Bob:
Nearby, the crew of a privately owned field artillery gun pumps huge shells into a denuded hillside, drawing cheers from the bleachers. The concussive force of the explosions trigger hundreds of car alarms inside the vehicles lining both sides of a rural highway half a mile away, up a muddy hill and across a creek from the Knob Creek Gun Range entrance. The whoops and buzzes of the alarms are nearly drowned out by the dragon's roar of the flamethrower, and then sonically obliterated by dozens of machine guns that erupt when the upper range master announces, "Go hot!"


i just love that paragraph.



in the taboo joy of mass destruction as spectator sport.


i wonder if he feels the same way about much of what passes for "news coverage" these days.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:14:18 AM EDT
hey dont get me wrong, im no fan of liberal causes but ive seen all that shit at the knob, and i see it all at the local atlanta gunshows i attend. a signifigant portion of the gun culture are fucking slime. this is why gun dealers and cops are such assholes, because on a daily basis they encounter a higher percentage of scum than the rest of us do.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:14:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 6:33:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By pv74:
These people do nothing but ruin the image of our sport.


Gun ownership is NOT a sport. Part of the problem is that far too many people view it as that.


Thank you Hawkeye, I just thought it should be said a little louder
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 6:41:28 AM EDT



I do not recall seeing Nazi crap for sale there either. Not saying racist types dont attend but they werent "In your face".

I am doubting "Mailcall" and "Shooting Gallery" would shoot episodes at KC if that racist crap was prevalent there.

So Im calling on the premise of the article, typos and all. Not the original poster.



I was there last April. There was one stand there that was nothing but nazi/kkk t-shirts and propoganda. His business was slow, people would walk up, take a glance, and move on like they saw a ghost. I saw a few skinhead types walking around but they were in the minority. Maybe like one in a thousand. Most were just regular looking folks out for a afternoon of fun.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 6:45:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 6:47:05 AM EDT
Well, this will boost attendance, free advertising !
Morris Dees = cum guzzler.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 6:53:24 AM EDT
I worked this past shoot at the front gate on Friday Saturday and Sunday. I checked probably a quarter of every weapon that went into the shoot. I also interacted with probably a quarter of every person that went in. I cannot recall seeing ANY issues. Nor do I recall seeing any racial propaganda out of the tables except for some nazi stuff, which is AT EVERY GUN SHOW IN THE US!
I don't like the article and I don't think it was a fair representation of the people that attend the shoot.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 6:56:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 6:58:01 AM EDT by FunYun1983]

Originally Posted By K9-Bob:

"Just as fast as you can crank it," she replies. "We just shipped a load of these babies to civilian security contractors in Iraq for convoy protection. When I go to sleep tonight, I'll dream of towel heads splattering all over the place."




Every half hour or so, the upper range master declares a cease-fire. Festival workers remove the smoldering wreckage of junker cars and household appliances and then freshen up the supply of targets. During these breaks, a flamethrower operator suits up rental customers in silver stunt man suits and lets 'em rip for $195 per tank. Nearby, the crew of a privately owned field artillery gun pumps huge shells into a denuded hillside, drawing cheers from the bleachers. The concussive force of the explosions trigger hundreds of car alarms inside the vehicles lining both sides of a rural highway half a mile away, up a muddy hill and across a creek from the Knob Creek Gun Range entrance. The whoops and buzzes of the alarms are nearly drowned out by the dragon's roar of the flamethrower, and then sonically obliterated by dozens of machine guns that erupt when the upper range master announces, "Go hot!"



Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:01:29 AM EDT

Southern Poverty Law Center :
Sonny Landham, the 1980s action movie star who now shills for the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens, signed autographs and distributed CCC literature at his booth near a hot-dog stand.


This is interesting. Sonny Landham is a native american. He was the the native american guy in the movie "Predator". Who knew a native american would turn into a white supremacist?

The "Southern Poverty Law Center" is nothing but a left wing group that attacks border security, militia groups, and other conservative issues.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:13:23 AM EDT

Intelligence Report
Summer 2006


Or lack thereof
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:14:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 7:16:53 AM EDT by Galland]
Morris Dees is nothing but a trial lawyer who specialises in going after specific and very unpopular groups. He masquerades his law firm as a civil rights organization in order to get good PR. He'd drop the SPLC like a hot potato if the money went out of it. In that sense he really is a modern 'civil rights' leader. He's just chosen a different way to fleece the herd than Sharpton and Jackson. I can guarantee one thing: You'll never see him go after a homeless Klansman.

Galland
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:24:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Southern Poverty Law Center :
Sonny Landham, the 1980s action movie star who now shills for the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens, signed autographs and distributed CCC literature at his booth near a hot-dog stand.


This is interesting. Sonny Landham is a native american. He was the the native american guy in the movie "Predator". Who knew a native american would turn into a white supremacist?

The "Southern Poverty Law Center" is nothing but a left wing group that attacks border security, militia groups, and other conservative issues.


This is interesting about Sonny Landham. I know his life has been screwed up, but I also don't trust Morris Dees about anything. Can anyone confirm or deny his asscoiation with the "Council of Conservative Citizen?"
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:33:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 7:36:34 AM EDT by brasidas]
I read one of Dees' books, and he is a leftist asshat of the first order. A true enemy of the RKBA.

The Southern Poverty Law Center is kind of like the Holy Roman Empire - not Holy not Roman and not an Empire. SPLC is not Southern, sure as hell is not poor, and perverts the law. It ought to be called the Rich Yankee Extortion Gang.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:37:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:41:08 AM EDT
On the bright side, this article caused me to learn a lot about various shades of green.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartreuse_%28color%29
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:41:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 7:42:39 AM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By nignog:

Originally Posted By gus:
Sounds like Knob Creek needs to clean house. 1st Ammendment or not, it's private property and a closed event (with admission charged) and Kenny could put a stop to it without violating anyone's rights.


You need to read the article please:



""I do not think of us as an extremist or militia gathering, but we do not regulate any items sold," Knob Creek Gun Range owner and festival chief Kenny Sumner wrote to the Intelligence Report...

If someone wants to sell white supremacist and neo-Nazi crap, that's OK with me. If it offends anyone, they don't have to stop at that vendor's table. It's just like strip clubs. I don't care nothing about them and they can be wherever they want. I have the ability to stop in or drive by. This is America and we do have the right to choose. That's why I do not restrict any of the vendors at our show."


Kenny's not worried about violating anyone rights. If you don't like the racists there, don't go.

I personally think people who hold racist views are seriously misguided, but what do I care? I don't go around trying to make sure everyone holds "proper" views.

NN


I don't care for one second what their views are, and it's their right to think and say whatever they believe. But if they want to do business in it at the peril of the Knob Creek shoot, and this kind of crap does cause big problems PR wise, they Kenny should boot them. Is their having a market place to display their crap more important than the shoot itself? Let them set up their own place to sell that garbage. Maybe eBay would be happy to help.

Giving the anti's free ammo to do the gun community harm is hardly what I'd call wise.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:49:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By K9-Bob:
SPAS 12 full-auto shotguns,

Intelligence Report
Summer 2006



I want one!
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 7:55:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By notso:

Originally Posted By K9-Bob:

Saturday Night Special
The Saturday night climax of every Knob Creek machine gun festival is the famous "night shoot." On the upper range, heavy machine gunners load their weapons with phosphorus tracer rounds and take aim through night vision goggles at glow sticks marking 50-gallon drums filled with gasoline and strapped with sticks of dynamite. The signal for the night shoot to begin is the whirring arrival of a black helicopter, its M-60 door gun spewing chartreuse tracer rounds from the sky.




That is all I need to read. I dont believe tracers come in that "color" if it really is a color. Thus I do not believe anything else he wrote!




Not to mention that I'm pretty sure there is no such animal as a "Spas-12 full-auto shotgun".

In fact, even the dreaded Street Sweeper and USAS-12 shotguns aren't full-auto, and those are classified as destructive devices because the ATF is run by assholes.
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