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Posted: 6/24/2001 4:43:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 5:57:43 AM EDT by LilRhody]
I volunteer at a local school and I help tutor kindergarteners in an ESL (English Second Language)classroom. I have been stewing in my own juices over something I was told and I need to let it out. The teacher gave me some of those interlocking wooden blocks to occupy some of the kids with; so I proceeded to built a fort with them. I explained to the kids what a fort was, and how the cowboys in years past would lock themselves up in one and defend themselves from Indians. The children (3boys &2girls) went and got me a bucketfull of little plastic kangaroos, of different colors to use as occupants of the fort. The teacher (a wonderfull woman who really cares about these children)came over and told me we should do something more constructive with the blocks. I said ,"no problem" and went on to build towers, houses, bridges, planes, etc. with the kids. Later on she pulled me over to the side and explained to me that such violent images, like forts and cowboys and Indians are no longer tolerated or accepted in our school systems. I did not further discuss the matter or argue it with her because, it would disqualify me from being able to participate in the program in the future. I feel sorry for the children in todays society. We do not need to be THIS PASSIVE to raise good kids that do not turn into homocidal maniacs. Thanks for listening.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:13:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:29:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 7:24:32 AM EDT by 95thFoot]
I remember as a kid in Germany in the 60s and early 70s, a very strong visceral reaction by the public and the schools to Germany's Nazi past and to America's atrocities in Vietnam (well, that's what they thought, folks..) - besides lots of student and labor protests, and just a general sense of upheaval in society, in West Germany, a new concept of child-rearing and education took hold, known as "anti-autoritaere Erziehung" (anti-authoritarian upbringing/education). This concept expunged all forms of violent play, images and thoughts in a child's life, and removed the elements of strict and harsh discipline, including any sort of social coercion that seemed like humiliation, as well as forbidding any sort of corporal punishment or a sense of limits or constraints on the character of the child. This was done so that the child "could unfold like a flower" and not be molded by a violent society into a black-uniformed killer. All sorts of violent play were proscribed: playing army, cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, you name it- gone. If it involved war or guns, or even smelled of it- it was gone. Kids never got a chance to process in their minds from role-playing, the monstrousness of war, and the team spirit that people need to get through seemingly insurmountable situations in life. (Thankfully, I never had to go through this system myself, but I knew friends who did. The areas that we lived in W. Germany as kids were pretty conservative [Baden-Wuerttemberg, Bavaria]) Some of these kids had a lot of problems, esp. w/ drugs. I am no longer in contact with them) It seemed like a great idea in the era of flower power, peace movements, nuclear and conventional disarmament, and the "Umfunktionierung" (re-structuring, from the ground up) of Western society that many people, esp. in the elites, thought was going to happen everywhere in the world. Life was going to be peaceful, harmonious, and natural. Wars and recessions would be eliminated, pollution and unemployment would be checked, and everybody would be able to lead a violence free life, free from evil thoughts or people.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:30:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 9:07:58 AM EDT by 95thFoot]
Well... it didn't quite turn out that way. This new form of child rearing turned out a lot of nihilistic psychopaths who felt no limits on their behavior, and no guilt about it either. Their sense of self-esteem was hollow, like an overinflated balloon, and very insecure. They were truly something out of Nietzsche, but had been subsidised and educated by the state. Sex crimes, drug abuse, murder and just a general level of violence was higher in the kids that came out of this upbringing, and it was found they had a very unrealistic view of life and what they felt they deserved from the world. In other words, they were spoiled little brats, but were worse, because nobody knew how to stop them without feeling guilty about the history of Germany that had driven the system to swing all the way to the other side of the pendulum's path in order to make up for the horrible deeds of Naziism. In the nineties, and in the present, there has, in some German states, been a swing back toward basics and traditional limits in child-rearing and school curriculum. Good. I saw as a student in the Univ. of Freiburg in the mid-Eighties, a lot of aimless people in my seminars, born in the Sixties, who seemed to not have a clue as to why they were even there, or where they were going. They lived in a strange half-world of unreal beliefs about the world, drugs, violence, etc. and had no idea how to make it past the stages in life where they stuck. Just who had guided them? How did they get like this? Well, go back to the unreal upbringing they had rec'd from infancy on, and there might be an answer. From little acorns do mighty oaks grow...if we forbid something, we crave it, esp. when we do not understand it. Teachers and educators of liberal bent- be careful what you wish for- you just might actually get it....
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:32:20 AM EDT
Thanks RAF. I really do understand SOME of the reasoning behind anti-violent and Anti-bullying behavior, but dammit this extreme level of passiveism has reached an almost unhealthy level.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:36:42 AM EDT
See what I mean. Unhealthy. Thanks 95thFoot
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:43:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 5:45:11 AM EDT by LilRhody]
OK Now I'm getting pissed off that my career can be ended because I am a moderate firearms enthusiast. [pissed]
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:57:39 AM EDT
That's what happens when we let inmates run asylums. Our educators have come to the conclussion that kids playing cowboys and indians causes violence. Hmmm... Let me see.... when I was a kid, I had all of the most realistic toy firearms money could buy. All of the kids in the entire neighborhood had similar toy guns. One kid even had an M-60. Every day, after school, we got off the buses, ran home, got our guns and met in the woods for the daily war. I must have killed something like 50,000 kids with my Mattel M-16 Marauder by the time I was 10 years old. I was killed a few thousand times myself. That's what kids did. We killed each other, all day long. We used fingers, sticks, and anything we could get our hands on that even remotely looked like a gun, and we killed, killed, killed. Yet not a single one of us has shot up a school, or murdered anyone anywhere else as far as I know. But kids building a fort in kindergarten promotes murder and mayhem? Such a rational conclussion, huh? Bullshit! It's scary to think that our educators can't reason out this simple problem. I thought problem solving was what they were supposed to be good at? "Let's see now.... we made toy guns turn orange, and made them less and less realistic, yet things still worsened. Toy guns were then forbidden in most gathering places, and in lots of American homes, and things still worsened. Damn! It has to be those toy guns! It has to be! We better ban finger guns too. And drawing pictures of guns! But things still get worse! Ban building block forts, that should fix it! No? Shit! It has to be the NRA then! yeah, they did it! Ban the NRA!" Hellooooooo? Any body home? What we have is a timeline. At one point on the line (point A), life was good. At the point representing the present (point B), things are not so good. What changed between point A and point B to facilitate the change in conditions? No fault divorces, social acceptance of single motherhood, banning prayer, and even mention of God in schools, welfare, FORCED desegregation, Affirmative Action, black rights, yellow rights, brown rights, gay rights, abortion "rights", lying, cheating sleazy presidents, abandoning of the Constitution, high taxes, two working parents in every household, day care... all part of the left wing agenda. For the left though, to admit that it's not the guns, or the gun play, would have the effect of shinning a bright light on the failure of every one of their pet causes, so that won't do. Yep, it's gotta be those bright orange toy guns, and those damned kids playing cowboys and indians!
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:59:03 AM EDT
I just offset all that PC crap by playing all sorts of violent games with my kids. Heck, when my daughter was 10, she reasoned out on her own that it was a good idea for the F/A-18 to have a gun, in case it ran out of missles[:D] Seriously, that kind of stuff will never work. People as a species are the way they are, and there's not much going to change that. If you raise your kids right, they will know the difference between right and wrong. I did as a kid, and my kids are better people than I am (but that's the idea, isn't it?) Ross
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:02:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 95thFoot: I remember as a kid...
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You nailed it! [:)]
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:13:24 AM EDT
Speak up intelligently and with reason at your local PTA meetings or whatever is equivalent. We need to get back to EDUCATING our children not spending all our time passifying, policing, and coddling them. Take an active role in the education and moral upbringing of your children. Involve yourselves in your community and help out others who do not know how or do not care enough to. We need our schools to be an environment of education and KNOWLEDGE of many things. Not fortified institutes of wimpering, cowering, angry, and helpless clueless individuals.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:14:24 AM EDT
Learned this one in Religion/Philosophy class: GOD IS DEAD------NIETZCHE NIETZCHE IS DEAD---GOD Powderburner
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:16:32 AM EDT
Sounds like even though how you handled the teacher didn't sit well with you(it's hard not to rant,etc. at these people huh?), you did the right thing at the moment. Now, you go back in and when you build forts, castles, etc. have handy an explanation they can understand and handle, like the historical perspective... "I'm teaching them what buildings were like when the Mayflower came over." or "I'm demonstrating what the precursor to the American city was back in the frontier days", or "BACK OFF, I've got 120 of America's finest Cavalry LOCKED & LOADED, and if you don't quit your squealing you're gonna feel the pounding of 480 tiny hooves ride San Juan Hill all over your.....", maybe save this one for the moment just before they throw you out. Seriously, don't think of it as you lowering yourself to their level in coming up with an "Acceptable" reason, it's just that with ignorant people we have to find a way they can "feel good" about something. This is a problem THEY have.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:20:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LilRhody: ....my career can be ended because I am a moderate firearms enthusiast. [pissed]
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That is correct. In Los Angeles, I know a teacher that used to be teacher was forced out of teaching because "they" found out that he is a gun owner, or so that is the story he claims.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:30:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: Too bad that the PC mind-straightjacket has reached this level, when children cannot even be informed about historical events.
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Reminds me of a Quote I once heard "Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it" or something like that it goes. [:(] We better start working on banning the history channel...the poor children may see one of those violent shows about WWI or WWII or etc.... Thne again...better get rid of discovery and the animal channels.....poor children might see what it is like for animals (what it was like for humans) to have to survive in a cruel world...We can't have that now can we??
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:30:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 6:31:18 AM EDT by LilRhody]
WSmak, I find it more and more difficult to defend myself in a civilized manner nowadays. Thru patience and civility I attempt to make my own little "stands" whenever and wherever possible. Recently I was smoking well away from a college level school building (at least 50feet) when a young lady walked by me and commented, "That is truly a disgusting habit, don't you know that smoking is not allowed, on school grounds" She proceeded to walk away from me with a disgusted look on her face. My god man I was standing out in the open well away from the building, I did NOT know this young lady and she proceeded to vocalize her opinions about what I was doing in a most rude and what I think is an unacceptable manner! Yes sometimes I feel like I am at wits end on figuring out how to respond to some people. ( no, sarcasm and violence are NOT acceptable responses) "with ignorant people we have to find a way they can "feel good" about something. This is a problem THEY have. " Yes I agree with those words.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:40:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:48:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: A possible response to the young lady(?) might be: "Thank you for your unsolicited and rude comments. I suggest you and I mind out own business in the future. Good-bye." You DID say civilized; I can think of other "uncivilized" responses that might get the point across more clearly.
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I like that.... Yeah I can think of others too just not anything that keeps my blood pressure within reasonable levels. I'm learning. Going back to school when you are older is difficult. All these kids seem to know everything today, and alot of them seem to have respect issues. Specifically a lack of it!
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 6:58:17 AM EDT
This is yet another reason why my son is NOT going to public school.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 7:14:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 7:13:20 AM EDT by Bootedaddy]
In the years to come how does the the United States of America expect to fulfill it's requirements for men and women in the Armed Forces? Only hypocrates would spend 12 years drumming into children's heads the evil of guns and wars and then expect young adults to go against what they have been taught and enlist to do something which is supposedly wrong. History needs to be taught, although war is not good, fighting against evil is necessary. Why is drug education advocated? Because they know the problem won't go away by ingnoring it. But yet guns and violence are treated in a totally different manner. If as young impressionable people if we had been taught the same things back in earlier part of the last century, how would the goverment justify drafting young men for the wars that killed so many brave Americans?
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 7:24:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bootedaddy: In the years to come how does the the United States of America expect to fulfill it's requirements for men and women in the Armed Forces?
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(Sarcasm alert!!) Simple! Do as the Eastern money and intellectual elite have always done in American wars- rely on ill-educated poor Southern whites, blacks and ethnics to do their dirty work for them. What? Get our fingers dirty with blood, guilt and guns- ICK!! (Sarcasm mode off) I doubt any Roosevelts or Kennedys fought in Vietnam, let alone participated in My Lai, the expression of their policies gone bad....
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 7:26:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 7:30:39 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 8:07:43 AM EDT
Wow. With all the push to ban dodgeball, forts, playground kissing, etc, it's no wonder Public School sucks. I sure feel fortunate that I got to attend when public school was still FUN and EDUCATIONAL.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 10:06:17 AM EDT
I am sure that the UN peackeepers that frequent this forum will agree that teaching how to build forts will only engrain a mentality of isolationism in the children. This is very detrimental to future generations of becoming successful global citizens and the implementation of Sustainable Development.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 1:54:07 PM EDT
How can they stop it. It's a biological thing. Are they gonna prevent deviled egg sandwiches or beans. Come on now. If you gotta fart you gotta. M4-AK
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 2:35:19 PM EDT
I can't see how this will help any of the future generations. We are forced to rely on out of school education. I earlier posted on my acceptance of some public schooling. I am retracking that statment. It is my feeling that with this anti gun propaganda spreading like wild fire and the fact that the government is trying to "forget" the things they have had the US military do the burden with increaseningly fall of the parents to educate their children. Ignorence will not make the past go away. Ignorence started the Dark Ages. Look at Rome a huge empire. When it colapsed writing and the arts seemed to utterly vanish of the face of the earth. I belive that this "new Dark Age" will begin with the stripping of our writes and the turning of our children to see the governments "our way is the right way" veiws on life. Thinking about it I suspect that their reasoning about it is that if there are no images of war or violence then there won't be any violence amoung them. Unfortunatly you would have to take away televison(some would say not a bad idea) and the the comupter(too many violent games and they could see somthing violent by accident) movies ( even most G rated movies have violence in them) the list could go on forever. Violence is a part of life I am sorry to say. Plain and simple sheep are easier to control than people and thats what they want sheep. [sniper]
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 3:23:46 PM EDT
Sounds like some more of the party line from the Patrick Kennedy worshipers.
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