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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/31/2004 4:19:49 PM EST
Before he came along, I kept a pistol (loaded) at the bedside. Only adults were in the house at that point, never kids. I knew that this would have to change because one day he'd be able to find it and pick it up.
After he was able to crawl- even before he could stand- I switched to a Mossy 500 18 inch barrel. I keep it with an empty chamber so that he'd have to do all the following steps to be in actual physical danger:
1. find it
2. find the slide release
3. hold it down while working the slide completely rearward
4. push slide back forward
5. push safety to OFF
6. pull trigger

I figured that the odds on that were pretty low. Well, the other day, he accomplished step one- finding it. While he was never in danger (except for the negative reinforcement he got for touching it), I'm not comfortable with the way things are now.

My wife wants to get a small safe, like a keypad or combination one, and use that. I'm not comfortable with my ability to find a key/correctly enter a code quicky under stress or in a desperate situation. My solution is to put a weapon several feet higher than he could get even standing on an object.

What have you guys done in my situation to strike a balance between easy access to weapons for yourselves and keeping them completely out of reach of your kids? All constructive comments welcome.

-Hobbit
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:23:06 PM EST
There's a handgun safe designed for the bedside table that has a hand shaped keypad. Looks like the ticket you need but i dont know who makes them.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:23:31 PM EST
Put a rack on the wall, hang it about 5 feet or so off the ground, it will take awhile for him to be able to reach it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:24:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:27:56 PM EST
I know a guy who for years and years kept a pump shotgun under his bed in the same state of readiness as you described. Through four boys he never had a problem.

He laid down the law in regard to the gun. That, and the fact the kids we not allowed in the master bedroom (major hell to pay), probably helped.

For handguns, I keep loaded handguns in those little Stack-On security boxes. My daughter (almost 3) is learning not to go near them and push the buttons, etc.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:28:25 PM EST
It aint cheap but it can't be beat for covering all the bases, including storing a gun with a round chambered.

thumbprint safe
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:36:36 PM EST
I kinda did the same with a Hi Power that I knew my daughter was not strong enough to cycle. However the most important is to spank that ass so the kid knows that there are some things he is not allowed to touch (or do).
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:41:29 PM EST
I educated the children...I allowed them to handle the firearm under my supervision and enforced the rule of not handling them without me.

This probably won't work for every child but it has worked well for 3 of mine.

You can cut out a storage area between the studs of your wall, frame it in and hang a mirror or cabinet door.

MT
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:46:14 PM EST
What does the law in your state say? In CA all guns have to be locked (safe/trigger lock) if there is a reasonable cahnce of children being in the house.

CW
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:47:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
There's a handgun safe designed for the bedside table that has a hand shaped keypad. Looks like the ticket you need but i dont know who makes them.




+1
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:49:57 PM EST
THESE are the gunvault ones. I don't have one, but I'm seriously considering getting one. I've never actually heard anything nevative about them.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:54:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:55:49 PM EST
I share your concerns. Miz LWilde and I are raising two of our grandchildren; girl seven and boy five. In spite of my many training sessions with the boy and my constant admonitions to never touch a firearm...without adult supervision, I have no doubt that given the chance, he would pick one up and play with it in a New York second.

Over the years I have carefully mixed my desire to maintain a quick response capability with a good dose of safety. I now have one of my pistols in a dresser top drawer with extra mags...and in the walk-in closet, way up on the top shelf is the Zombie Killer...my Mossy M590A1 with about 13 ready rounds of #4 and 00 buckshot.

When we finished the basement this year, I had the builder create a special gun room/vault. Foundation rebar with earth up to the ceiling on the outside on three sides. I had him reinforce the wall into the new living space with 5/8" plywood then the wallboard. I then had him install a very heavy industrial steel security/fire door. Can a BG get in? Sure he can...given enough time. Given enough time, he can even crack the safes inside. Any security system can be breached by a pro, given enough time. My goal was to secure the guns...except my QR guns, from my grandson and his future hoodlum pals.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:57:01 PM EST

What does the law in your state say?
Move, quickly. Don't support states that try to legislate common sense. I didn't think it was legal to SAY firearm in that state.

Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:58:00 PM EST
Some of the ignorance described in this thread is scary. Use a safe people. I have a GunVault that works just fine. Leaving guns out for toddlers is just plain stupid, and there is no way it could ever be justified.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 4:58:16 PM EST
My dad always kept his handguns on a shelf in the closet when I was little.

Of course, I could disassemble a browning hi-power and put it back to gether about ONE DAY after I learned how to climb up to the shelf.


Later, he used the 'beat-my-butt-raw' strategy (with success) to keep me away from his guns.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 5:00:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1928A1:

What does the law in your state say?
Move, quickly. Don't support states that try to legislate common sense. I didn't think it was legal to SAY firearm in that state.



We don't. We have to say "baby killing bullet hoses"

CW
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 5:17:21 PM EST
Gunvault

Link Posted: 10/31/2004 7:05:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 7:12:00 PM EST
Get this book !!!! Gun Proof your childern. Written by Massad Ayoob.
Published by Police Bookshelf P.O.Box 122,Concorde,New Hampshire 03301.

It gives good tips to sharpen your general saftey skills and helps eliminate the curiosity factor.
It is a two in one book combined with "handgun primer". This half is adult basic safty.
Thanks for the reminder, I try to read it atleast once a year. I have six kids in the house 1-16 years. Teach them young to do it right. I keep a 1911 and am working on a secure way to keep an AR at the ready. E-mail me if you need added info. I have a post under AR misc equip looking for ideas to mount thr AR. I think I have decided to put a lock fixture (like they use in police cars) up on the wall with a wood cabinent around it. Cabinent elevated to keep the little ones out, and locked yet accessable when needed. Just big enough to store an AR and maybe a tac shotgun. The rest are in the rifle safe and ammo is in a smaller firesafe.

Get the book!!!
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 7:24:36 PM EST
Get off your wallet and buy a rapid access gun safe, gun cablinet, or pistol locker! Jeeze, it's only a couple hundred bucks!
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 7:26:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
There's a handgun safe designed for the bedside table that has a hand shaped keypad. Looks like the ticket you need but i dont know who makes them.



I've got two of these, they are pretty awesome.......

I like the molded in top so you can index quickly in the dark.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 7:31:31 PM EST
Another vote for the FINGERPRINT gunvault model. Instant readiness, and no way the kid will get in (in case he decides to spend the day pressing buttons and gets lucky).
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 7:33:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 7:50:33 PM EST
I've been looking into these as well (Grandkids). While more expensive, the biometric ones are the way to go IMHO.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 8:17:48 PM EST
Just randomly came onto this board seeing your username...It's awesome
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 9:28:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2004 9:30:23 PM EST by Drakemir]
while I don't have this problem yet, it is something I'm looking towards in the near future. I'm looking towards the gunvault and good gun habits with the kids (read: fear of touching guns with out me present ;) . My only concern with the biosafe is it's plugged into the wall, since a safe like that is a QR item, I would like to know that I would be able to access the safe no matter the situation. Seems when there are SHTF moments, even minor ones like blizzards and such, people get stupid and I would want access no matter what. I think I would go with a Bio one with keyover ride. Thus the key could be kept with me all the time, then if I wasnt home the key wasnt home. etc.


D-

edit- spelling + lay night = bad
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 10:15:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2004 10:18:04 PM EST by paenutz]
I wasnt going to even read this thread because I knew it was going to tic me off. But inevitably Curiosity killed the cat.

So, I started reading and I got this far...


Originally Posted By arowneragain:
My dad always kept his handguns on a shelf in the closet when I was little.

Of course, I could disassemble a browning hi-power and put it back to gether about ONE DAY after I learned how to climb up to the shelf.


Later, he used the 'beat-my-butt-raw' strategy (with success) to keep me away from his guns.




Thats far enough for me.

I sure hope arowneragain didnt get flame for his post, even though I am betting he did.

I was raised the same way, and I rufes to raise my children differantly.

My kids don't put there fingers in light sockets,
They know that the stove/iron is HOT and will burn them.
They also Know that knives are sharp and will cut them, etc. ect...
( I could go on all day )

My Fire arms are no differant.
They know that daddy KILLS things with them and they are nothing to PLAY with.
That is how I was raised that is how I will raise my kids.

Hell, I Keep a Single shot 12gauge on the Coat Rack Its is there for all to see and
the Wife and my Oldest daughter ( 7yrs old ) KNOW how to use it .
There are NO LOADED weapons laying around my house, but they are here,
and everyone in my home is acustom to them.

Flame away, but my 4yo son Just might have more discipline then YOU.

I didnt read this thread and my Familly is armed,
I am paenutz and I aproved this message...

ETA: Damn you arowneragain I was just starting not to like you!
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 1:50:19 AM EST
Do you leave drano out where they can get it? do you leave pills out where they can get it? have you "baby-proofed"the kitchen? (kid-proofing kitchens in CA is a good idea anyway, afterall when the big one hits, you don't want all the content ejectors in the cabinets to go off?)

You can only "train" kids so far, can you guarantee no other kids will ever come over? family or friends? never any hide-and-seek games on rainy days?

You as the adult must apply the common sense, and having had 3 boys, that rule applies until they become teenagers and you become the dummy in the family. Or according to the wife I have been the dummy for a long time.

In any case hows this for a scenario, smallish kid is exploring, and they do, trips and falls and grabe shottie with both hands at the right places, oops, slide moves back, kid realizes error of ways and in attempting to return items to pr-oops state lifts up on slide and chambers round. maybe at some point pusenes safety off? Not totally impossible, but

Life is a series of tradeoffs and a little inconvenience that adds immeasurably to safety ? Well what do you really think?
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 2:34:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Do you leave drano out where they can get it? do you leave pills out where they can get it? have you "baby-proofed"the kitchen? (kid-proofing kitchens in CA is a good idea anyway, afterall when the big one hits, you don't want all the content ejectors in the cabinets to go off?)

You can only "train" kids so far, can you guarantee no other kids will ever come over? family or friends? never any hide-and-seek games on rainy days?

You as the adult must apply the common sense, and having had 3 boys, that rule applies until they become teenagers and you become the dummy in the family. Or according to the wife I have been the dummy for a long time.

In any case hows this for a scenario, smallish kid is exploring, and they do, trips and falls and grabe shottie with both hands at the right places, oops, slide moves back, kid realizes error of ways and in attempting to return items to pr-oops state lifts up on slide and chambers round. maybe at some point pusenes safety off? Not totally impossible, but

Life is a series of tradeoffs and a little inconvenience that adds immeasurably to safety ? Well what do you really think?



Perfectly said and I don't want the one lesson he doesn't learn to be the one of how a gun can kill if shot at someone.

Last week we went out and invested in a small safe for the handgun. Yes we have to fumble with buttons, but just like your firearm, practice, practice, practice and in an emergency you will be able to do it in your sleep.

MrGungho painted a very scary picture for me, lilgh finds a handgun, the only way he can pull the trigger is using both thumbs. He naturally points the barrel at his face so he can use his thumbs to pull the trigger..........

We still have other weapons out of reach at this time, but the one we need to access quickly at night is locked now. All others are in a safe or very high up.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 2:38:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
There's a handgun safe designed for the bedside table that has a hand shaped keypad. Looks like the ticket you need but i dont know who makes them.



absolutely, although i was raised around weapons that were left out also and never had a problem, why would i take the chance with my son?
why hang it high on the wall when the kid will get tall or be able to stand on a chair. i wouldn't be so much worried about him later, but i'd worry about visitors that eventually come over with the kid.....i'm not getting sued.
people can talk about their kids and the training they'll get from super dad.....i know a girl now in a wheel chair from her otherwise responsible brother playing with the bedside gun, shot her in the neck.....
i'd feel like a douch for not taking preventive steps...
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 2:41:09 AM EST
The loaded firearms in the house are on my person or my nightstand when I am asleep. Others are almost too high for ME to reach. Oldest daughter can just barely operate firearms and is trusted with that knowledge. She wouldn't be the first kid to come to the parent's rescue. Train your kids and take some precaution, but don't go crazy. Guns are meant to be accessable, otherwise what good are they? Planerench out.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 2:56:38 AM EST
+1 on the Gunvault or the Thumbprint vault. As a suggestion though, from personal experience. Buy high quality batteries. The gunvault uses AA's, and you might even consider getting the lithium ones that'd be best for long term use without worrying if they die on you. Then, replace them on a regular schedule. I found that one day they'd be working fine, the next, they wouldn't work cause they were dead and I'd have to use the key to reopen and change the batteries.

Gunvault rocks for absolute ease of use.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 3:16:08 AM EST
There is a fantastic product that would be ideal for securing a firearm at home, or anywhere that it needs to be instantly accessable.

Here is a link to the device that can make it happen:

www.ibutton.com/pki.html

The "key" can be (and is now offered) imbedded in a ring that is worn 24 hours a day. If access is needed, just touch the ring to the touchpad, and the door swings open. There is even a self contained lock and latch assembly that is sold now. Just mount the latch assembly on a hardened door or cabenent, and you are good to go.

This is all off the shelf hardware, no development needed. Will work with door strike locks, and/or mag locks.

If someone wants to incorporate this into a product and manufacture it for sale, I'd be more than happy to serve on your design and development team.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 4:32:11 AM EST
I have all my guns in the safe and my HD pistol in a Gunvault beside the bed.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 5:02:38 AM EST
A loaded gun in the house with kids is just plain stupid!!!

Could you ever live with yourself?

Kids will get into anything!

Get a dog!

If where you live is that bad, or your that paranoid, move.

you can never replace your children!
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 5:29:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By poppinsexz:
A loaded gun in the house with kids is just plain stupid!!!

Could you ever live with yourself?

Kids will get into anything!

Get a dog!

If where you live is that bad, or your that paranoid, move.

you can never replace your children!


I don't know about all of this.

We've had loaded weapons in our house since she was about a year and a half old. We've taught her what they are and what they do (in language she could understand and accept). My husband taught her their parts and she now has a good working knowledge of how they work. She's been to the range with her dad and knows more about gun safety than most adults (particularly the non-gun owning ones). She's around them in one way or another pretty much every day. They are no mystery to her. Now she notices them about as much as she notices the lamps in the house. She doesn't touch them. She's barely even interested in them. I have no fear of her touching one without my husband or I present. That being said, we also do NOT under any circumstances allow her around toy guns. Why? Because guns aren't toys. And if you ask her, she'll say the same thing.

That's what ticks me off about when "investigative" reporters do their little studies and stick kids in a room with a toybox with a pistol in it. HELLO! You stick something in a toy box, what's a kid going to think it is?
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 5:37:55 AM EST
The child's personality will be a major factor...many children won't have a problem. Each parent will have to read their children to get the best idea. There have been multiple cases where a parent misread a child and it turned out tragic, so some extra caution will have to be built into the final solution.

All these numbers are variable...
Under age 2, one could easily do the "up high" thing and the kid simply won't reach it. Somewhere around age 3 or sooner, they'll learn they can climb, get a chair, etc.

Kid's learn at amazingly young ages all sorts of stuff (playing parents off each other, etc...hehe), but certain realities, particularly cold-hard realities such as death and such may not sink in until 4-5 years old. Hopefully children won't be required to go through hard lessons that soon, but we want them to know certain things are harmful, etc.

When my two older daughters were 4&6, we went to the supermarket and bought a few watermelons and honeydew melons. They held them in their laps as we drove up to a place to shoot. Once there, they got their ear protection and we set up the melons. Mom held them while I put a single 9mm hollowpoint through one melon (kablooie!). Then I used the AR to put a single round (40gr Corbon) through another melon. I took 4 shots at 4 melons and there wasn't a whole lot of melon left. Their eyes were wide as they were learning that guns did more than make noise on TV. We've reinforced that lesson over the years and we've been back to the range. But the idea was to teach that there was something very real about the guns.

Even with that, kids vary widely in their personalities and what they will and will not do. If you think that it's a possibility, I say +1 on one of those "quick safes"...they're pretty cool.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 5:59:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2004 6:02:12 AM EST by HardShell]
This was my solution: www.gunlocker.com/


They mount in the wall, between studs (and bolted to them on both sides - very secure). They can be put in a closet or covered with a picture/mirror, but mine is right beside he bed in the open. As for the "ability to find a key/correctly enter a code quicky under stress or in a desperate situation" concern (a valid one IMHO), I eliminated that by making the the opening/locking of the GunLocker part of my nightly/daily routine (sort of like arming/disarming the house alarm). I open the safe as I go to bed each night and close it first thing when I get up in the morning. I bought/installed it before "Junior" was born so that we could get used to the routine - it is second nature now.

They make smaller pistol-only models, but I opted for the RifleLocker and like it very much. Here's mine in my bedroom:



Link Posted: 11/1/2004 6:09:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2004 6:10:34 AM EST by meltdown]

Originally Posted By JBritt:
I have all my guns in the safe and my HD pistol in a Gunvault beside the bed.



+1

-edit - I guess there is an old shotgun hanging on the wall in my locked office.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 6:30:06 AM EST
+1 on the GunVault. I had tested it after I bought it to see how well I can get into it if woken in the middle of the night. I often wake at night, usually ~2:00 am, I tested myself to see how quick I could open it. Not a problem.

I highly recommend.

Best thing since PIE.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 6:41:13 AM EST
Buy two gunvaults. I have a three year old daughter and she is naturally curious. She is also stubborn like her mother, and even when you tell her not to do something she will sometimes try and do it when you are not watching.

The first gunvault can go in your bedroom. The second could go near the entrance of your home. That way you can get to a firearm quickly in case there are intruders in the house. Years ago this happened to me, and they were between me and my guns. I fled out the front, they fled out the rear. Now I keep a weapon close at hand to the entrance and a big can of bearspray mounted to the wall with a modified fire extinquisher mount. I painted the can white and it looks like a fire extinguisher if you don't look at it closely. My wife knows not to try and put out fires with it!!

See this as an opportunity to get you and your family a plan of response in case you do have an intruder. Whose job is it to get the baby? Whose job is it to contact law enforcement? My job is to go for the kid. Once I have her I get back to the room my wife is in and she will be both armed and on the phone with the cops.

Bottom line for me is I sleep better with the weapons locked down. Sure it is slower to get to them. Life = managed risks.

Best of luck,
Cheese
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