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Posted: 9/9/2004 1:22:21 PM EDT
Kerry was given a Remington 11-87 shotgun in Racine, WV.

Under HR 2038 that gun would be banned. Here's how:

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip;

`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds

Remington makes 11-87s for police use with a 7 round magazine capacity:


Now this definition comes into play:

`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).

So if Remington makes 11-87 shotguns for police use that are classified as "assault weapons" under HR 2038, then "hunting" 11-87s using the same recievers are banned cause the receiver is classifed as an assault weapon.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:27:57 PM EDT
Not trying to be difficult here but:

1) Are the receivers used on the police versions identical to the civilian version?

2) If not, the question is then whether they are substantially similar.

3) Arguably, a lesser capacity is enough to take the civilian version outside the scope of the "substantially similar" provision.

Of course, none of this changes the fact that said bill is asinine
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:29:16 PM EDT
No it wouldn't if the receivers were the same.

The receiver itself is an "assault weapon".
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:38:20 PM EDT
Silly, silly, silly.

He would not have to give up his guns. How many times do I have to tell people that laws, especially those pertaining to gun ownership do not count if you are a member of the political or social elite.

It is his duty to subjugate the people, thus the ban of your gun, while he and his buddies keep thiers.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:40:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 1:41:09 PM EDT by Sodie]
`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:42:13 PM EDT
All John Kerry's are evil and should be banned, with or without detachable, pistol-grip bayonet lugs of 11 or more rounds.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 2:15:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
No it wouldn't if the receivers were the same.

The receiver itself is an "assault weapon".

I'm sorry... I don't follow...no what wouldn't?
I do agree with the second clause, however. If the receivers are identical (and I don't know whether they are) then I would concur.

My point was if they are not identical, they may not even be considered substantially similar. If identical, however, my point is entirely moot and a waste of space.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 2:51:00 PM EDT
I'm not 100% that Kerry's gun would be banned. My 11-87 has a couple of little dimples on each side of the mag tube so that you can't put more than 5 shells in even if you have a mag extension. OF course it's rather easy to get rid of, though.
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