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Posted: 10/4/2004 3:30:33 PM EST
Is anyone out there voting for Bush just because of their AR-15? I don't wish to offend anyone, but personally, the only aspect of my life that has improved over the last four years is that I now have a new pre-ban config AR15 that I didn't have before. I earn less than I did four years ago, my life savings is 25% of what it was 4 years ago after a layoff, my employment prospects are about 10% of what they were 4 years ago, I could go on. Don't even ask how I feel about the Patriot Act. So, how do those of you (us) who love the 2nd ammendment but have been ravaged financially over the last four years come to grips with how to vote? Really, if I'm broke I can't buy bullets anyway.

Flame away, I probably deserve it.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:36:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 3:38:47 PM EST by GC456]
Hmmm lets see. We have less gun control laws now. I make almost 3 times what I made in 1999, there are less taxes on my stock, mutual funds and savings... which has almost doubled since 1999.

In fact I don't personally know anyone that is worse off today than in 1999.


GO W!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:38:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:39:46 PM EST
Thanks to GWB, I pay less taxes now and I'm not even rich. Imagine that....
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:42:07 PM EST
You need to start acting like a man and start taking responsibility for your career and employment situation. Quit blaming others, particularly the government, for your misfortunes, bad judgements, failure to keep your skills relevant in the marketplace, etc. etc.

There is VERY little a President can do to stimulate the economy. The sooner you learn that fact, the sooner you will learn to take charge of your own future.

One more question, WTF are you doing blowing $500+ on a rifle when your financial situation sucks so much?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:59:19 PM EST
It wasn't $500, it was $1500 with optics. My financial situation isn't dire, sir, it just hasn't improved over the last 4 years at all. Sure, I can make less than I did 4 years ago and still have money to spend. Those people who make multiples of what they did 4 years ago probably graduated college or some form of higher ed (or maybe got out of the service and into a civilian contracting job) and got a commensurate raise I'm guessing? If not, congratulations, you should be a financial planner. I admit, Bush has done some good things. I was just wondering if anyone's AR-15 was making the difference in their vote.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:06:30 PM EST
i find it amazing people blame the economy (predicted pre bush to go into a slump) and 9-11 on the current president. If terrorists had succeded in bringing down the towers durring clintons time would that make it his fault?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:09:20 PM EST
SWO_daddy:
You make lots of assumptions about things you know nothing about. My skills, my attitudes, my values... Skills don;t have anything to do with it brother, it is all about how cheap you can afford to survive which translates into how cheap you can work. If they haven't come for you yet, then your skills must not be very high paying.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:10:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
i find it amazing people blame the economy (predicted pre bush to go into a slump) and 9-11 on the current president. If terrorists had succeded in bringing down the towers durring clintons time would that make it his fault?



No.

<­BR>

It's still Bush's fault.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:11:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:16:23 PM EST
Be a man and take responsablilty for your own problems. I changed careers in the early 90's. My income was cut in half, but I was much happier and got to spend time with my daughter. Was my loss of income Clinton's fault? I don't think so. If a hot chick doesn't come by tonight, do I get to blame it on Bush?

Let's not even talk about taxes, etc.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:16:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigMag:

Flame away, I probably deserve it.



... What do you want The People to do for you?

... I've always said, if you've given up on Free Enterprise, hard-work ethic, the incentives and opportunities that comes with capitalism; why then vote Socialism.

... It's an easy and lazy man's way of saying "Fuck it, I'll let those that work take care of me"

...



Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:16:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigMag:
before. I earn less than I did four years ago, my life savings is 25% of what it was 4 years ago after a layoff, my employment prospects are about 10% of what they were 4 years ago, I could go on. Don't even ask how I feel about the Patriot Act. So,




Sorry about the job buddy, but

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE BELIEVING THIS PRESIDENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS AND RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

The president is not the reason you do not have a job. Similarly, I don't praise Bill Clinton for the magnificent stock market gains I had in the 1990s.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:17:20 PM EST
[rant]I'm sick to death of this 'victim' mentality that's so pervasive in this culture. So your economic situation is not as you'd like it.... Suck it up and DO SOMETHING ABOUT. The infinite opportunity available to anyone in this contry is NOT just a cliche - it's there for anyone who takes advantage of it. I've changed careers 3 times. Went back to college at 29 w/ 1 kid and got my degree in 5yrs of full and part-time classes and jobs.

Stop whining and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!![/rant]


There,.... I feel better now
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:19:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigMag:
Is anyone out there voting for Bush just because of their AR-15? I don't wish to offend anyone, but personally, the only aspect of my life that has improved over the last four years is that I now have a new pre-ban config AR15 that I didn't have before. I earn less than I did four years ago, my life savings is 25% of what it was 4 years ago after a layoff, my employment prospects are about 10% of what they were 4 years ago, I could go on. Don't even ask how I feel about the Patriot Act. So, how do those of you (us) who love the 2nd ammendment but have been ravaged financially over the last four years come to grips with how to vote? Really, if I'm broke I can't buy bullets anyway.

Flame away, I probably deserve it.



The bad economy isn't Bush's fault:

www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A38826-2004Jan22?language=printer

And Bush's response to it was better than Kerry's would have been.

The Patriot Act is similar to several anti-terror bills that got shot down by the Republican congress during the Clinton years. Except, the versions the Democrats wanted were worse, and would have done things like requiring taggents in gunpowder used by reloaders.

And to answer your question, gun control is only one aspect of why I support Bush.

I like tax cuts. I like free markets, and Bush is more of a free market guy than Kerry (despite Bush's steel terriffs, which were a bad idea). Bush works towards opening up the West, while Clinton closed it down to roads, development, oil drilling, and in California, AW use.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:22:12 PM EST
Go to the site on presidential debates (http://www.debates.org/) and search the 2000 Bush/Gore debate when Bush talks about how to pressure Opec and Saudi Arabia into increasing output by using America's leverage. Seriously, read it... then compare it to the gas pump. Damn, some of you guys are so idealogical you jump to conclusions and ride the "personal responsibility" band wagon without any real assessment of one's responsibility. I have 2 kids a wife and a mortgage, no responsibility there I assure you! Ever consider that maybe the playing field in the Bush economy isn't fair to people working outside the service industry? Ever consider that if you want to make a good living in the Bush economy you'll need a second job to do it? Go Bush...straight to the unemployment line!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:23:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigMag:
Is anyone out there voting for Bush just because of their AR-15? I don't wish to offend anyone, but personally, the only aspect of my life that has improved over the last four years is that I now have a new pre-ban config AR15 that I didn't have before. I earn less than I did four years ago, my life savings is 25% of what it was 4 years ago after a layoff, my employment prospects are about 10% of what they were 4 years ago, I could go on. Don't even ask how I feel about the Patriot Act. So, how do those of you (us) who love the 2nd ammendment but have been ravaged financially over the last four years come to grips with how to vote? Really, if I'm broke I can't buy bullets anyway.

Flame away, I probably deserve it.



hehehe, must be in IT, huh?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:24:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:24:52 PM EST
Incidently, when a natural disaster struck Texas way back when, our president stated: "Texas supports our great nation, but our nation does not support Texas". And then he refused to sign an aid bill. But that was a long time ago, and our modern politicians have taken to pandering and posing, and individual responsibility is no longer a keystone in our culture.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:29:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By thompsondd:

Originally Posted By BigMag:
Is anyone out there voting for Bush just because of their AR-15? I don't wish to offend anyone, but personally, the only aspect of my life that has improved over the last four years is that I now have a new pre-ban config AR15 that I didn't have before. I earn less than I did four years ago, my life savings is 25% of what it was 4 years ago after a layoff, my employment prospects are about 10% of what they were 4 years ago, I could go on. Don't even ask how I feel about the Patriot Act. So, how do those of you (us) who love the 2nd ammendment but have been ravaged financially over the last four years come to grips with how to vote? Really, if I'm broke I can't buy bullets anyway.

Flame away, I probably deserve it.



hehehe, must be in IT, huh?



I'm in IT, I just didn't jump from job to job during the bubble. Stayed with the same boring and (at the time) lower paying job with one of the largest banks in the country. Been there 8 years now and make a good living. Lots of folks I know left for jobs making 50% more, but they lost those jobs long ago. My motto is dance with the one that brought you.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:30:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigMag:
Really, if I'm broke I can't buy bullets anyway.

Flame away, I probably deserve it.



Just make sure to save the last one for the inevitable end of your downward spiral.

Bush is making you broke. That's fucking classy. How many clicks did it take to get over here from DU troll boy?



Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:32:24 PM EST
Let's see...

...signed on Oct 02

...2nd post,

...opens with commentary of false and inflammatory nature,

yep, another

[AOL] Goodbye[/AOL]

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:32:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:33:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigMag:
Go to the site on presidential debates (http://www.debates.org/) and search the 2000 Bush/Gore debate when Bush talks about how to pressure Opec and Saudi Arabia into increasing output by using America's leverage. Seriously, read it... then compare it to the gas pump.



First, gas is still cheap. Sure, you have to adjust for inflation to see this. But it remains cheap relative to other items. Second, using pressure to get better prices is wrong, and it's bad policy in the long run.


Originally Posted By BigMag:
Damn, some of you guys are so idealogical you jump to conclusions and ride the "personal responsibility" band wagon without any real assessment of one's responsibility. I have 2 kids a wife and a mortgage, no responsibility there I assure you!



You are the one most responsible for your economic fate. Frankly, Bush doesn't have much to do with it. That's the point.


Originally Posted By BigMag:
Ever consider that maybe the playing field in the Bush economy isn't fair to people working outside the service industry? Ever consider that if you want to make a good living in the Bush economy you'll need a second job to do it? Go Bush...straight to the unemployment line!



Oh my. It's economics, clear and simple. It has nothing to do with fair. If your line of work doesn't pay, find another line of work!.

Now, lets talk about all those blacksmiths and saddle makers and horse shoers who are out of jobs. The president should ban cars and trucks and modern technology to ensure their job security.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:38:04 PM EST
I'll give $5 to stop your whining.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:39:46 PM EST
Yep, STILL in IT. Got a clearance now and that should help. For defense, whether it's Bush or Kerry, defense spending will not go below 4% of GDP which is about where we are now. Defense will be the strongest IT sector for the next 20 years. Especially since the work can't be done by non-US citizens for the most part.

Anyway, now I know what it's like here. This is my um, 5th post? Maybe 6th? You guys are pretty f*ing brutal. Thanks for the candor though.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:41:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigMag:
Is anyone out there voting for Bush just because of their AR-15? I don't wish to offend anyone, but personally, the only aspect of my life that has improved over the last four years is that I now have a new pre-ban config AR15 that I didn't have before. I earn less than I did four years ago, my life savings is 25% of what it was 4 years ago after a layoff, my employment prospects are about 10% of what they were 4 years ago, I could go on. Don't even ask how I feel about the Patriot Act. So, how do those of you (us) who love the 2nd ammendment but have been ravaged financially over the last four years come to grips with how to vote? Really, if I'm broke I can't buy bullets anyway.

Flame away, I probably deserve it.



Of course I am not voting for Bush JUST BECAUSE of my AR-15. Not to brag...and just to make an example, I make a ton more $$$ now than in 2000, and a 15% raise is about to make Miz LWilde REALLY happy...and that's a good thing. My taxes have fallen dramatically, thanks directly to the president's belief that our money is OUR money and NOT some bureaucrats to use to engineer society. My life savings is WAY up since Bush took over and the market regained its poise. The Clinton Justice Dept.'s policies toward some huge business entities, such as MicroSoft, caused great damage to the market and helped bring on the late recession. Employment numbers which always lag a large market adjustment and a recession or boom are now back to pre-Clinton numbers.
Employement nationwide is essentially zero. Any unemployment numbers down around 5% which is what we have now means 95% of all eligible and employable are in fact employed.

Certainly there are those among us who have been and will continue to be hit by the changing face of American labor. Like it or not, America is in the next major labor revolution. We are IN FACT moving away from a manufacturing paradigm to one of information management...into the computer age. We led the world in the agrarian revolution, the industrial revolution and now into this latest labor revolution. If you or others happen to be in a field that is moving off shore, then you must retrain yourselves. If your current employment prospects are about 10% of what they were, then you must adapt. It is sheer folly to expect a company to maintain a manufacturing plant here when they can make the same widgets overseas for less than 1/2 the cost of labor. Contrary to some common socialist ideas from the Left, companies aren't in business to employ workers...they are in it to make money...and by doing so they employ lots of folks.

How can you logically infer that you have been "ravaged" during the last four years? What work do you do? What did you do during the Clinton years? What Bush policies cause you to lose your job? Have you been unemployed during the Bush years?

Finally, I don't "love" the Second Amendment. I respect and believe in the Constitution, including the Second Amendment...AND, can you identify ONE way in which the Patriot Act has disrupted your life? Can you tell us one occasion where the Patriot Act took away a single right given you by the first ten amendments to the Constitution? How have you been harmed byt the Patriot Act? How has anyone you know been harmed by the Patriot Act?

I await your answers.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:41:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:48:22 PM EST
Prestidents can tinker with the economy but they can't turn it around. I think we are doing pretty well after taking the double whammy of 9/11 and the dot-com bust.

My company stock is at record levels, I have to pay less taxes and I get to buy the guns I want.

I will vote for Bush. I also don't think Kerry would be a very effective leader against the terrorists. He would be changing his strategies every month.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:10:56 PM EST
Vote for Kerry and you'll have to change your handle to "restricted mag".
Fuck off troll.
I dont care to spend too much time telling you demo asshats to shoulder a little personal responsibility. Stop hoping that .gov takes care of your every need and controls every aspect of your life. What you want from the .gov is not freedom and you WILL get the control you're asking for.
Me? Personally I feel I'm responsible for myself and my needs and my job and my healthcare and my house and my life and my freedom and I am willing to do the work needed to ensure I have those things.
You whiny little bitch! Get a sac and go and do something for yourself and stop blaming your problems on the .gov and whoever you can find to point a finger at like Haliburton or Enron.
I got plenty of problems and you know what? They're MY fucking problems you fucking crybaby! I've been out of work too! I lost my savings too! I aint crying for the President to come save me!
I have neighbors who lost their homes and they arent going to .gov for handouts. They bought FUCKING INSURANCE like I did and are paying for their own fucking repairs.
You probably believe Bush is responsible for the hurricanes because he didnt sign our sovereignity over to the world with Kyoto and caused global warming! I think it was caused by the Bermuda high being shifted a little to the west this year and I'm willing to take my lumps because of that.
Get lost troll. Go hide in your Momma's skirt.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:16:19 PM EST
[crickets]chirp[/crickets]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:19:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

... I have neighbors who lost their homes and they arent going to .gov for handouts. They bought FUCKING INSURANCE like I did and are paying for their own fucking repairs.
You probably believe Bush is responsible for the hurricanes because he didnt sign our sovereignity over to the world with Kyoto and caused global warming! I think it was caused by the Bermuda high being shifted a little to the west this year and I'm willing to take my lumps because of that.
Get lost troll. Go hide in your Momma's skirt.



Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:25:43 PM EST
I lost my job due to IMPORTS from China while Clinton was prez. Since Bush has been prez my income has grown 60%
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:25:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:40:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:10:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:11:48 PM EST by Arch-angel]

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:25:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:36:50 PM EST by NYPatriot]
BigMac...


Anyway, now I know what it's like here. This is my um, 5th post? Maybe 6th? You guys are pretty f*ing brutal. Thanks for the candor though.


So... you didn't know what kind of response you would get "here", as in you didn't lurk for a while before registering so you could tell if this was a community that you would like?

...as in you registered "here" for one purpose & one purpose only... to stir up shit!

"You guys"??? Aren't you one of us? You know... freedom loving gun owners? You mean you are actually admitting to not being one of us "guys"???

Go back to DU troll... your Kung Fu is weak!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:40:45 PM EST
Personally, my income has improved over 300% since Bush took office. The ***EVIL*** tax cuts enabled me to buy several items, and thereby stimulate the economy. I'm now completely debt free, as compared to 20K+ in debt 4 years ago.

Saddam Hussein is in a jail cell (What was the last war where the U.S. actually captured the dictator of a country?), Al-queida's organization is shit, and the military is stronger than it's been since the cold war buildup.

It still amazes me that the people I work with, whose income, and standard of living have improved drastically, can support JK. Ask them why, and they can't cite a single reason other than "they hate Bush". Sickening.

Not that it makes much of a difference here anyway, Indiana always goes for the republican candidate, so their votes are pretty much wasted. Hopefully, their moronic JK bumper stickers will eat the paint off their cars.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:17:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:29:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:31:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 3:10:24 AM EST by BigMag]
I can see what most of you are all about. Tell Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity hi for me....and don't forget to swallow! When you only get your news from one source it allows the puss to form.

I came to this site for help on determining which AR to get once the ban lifted, not to stir up sh*t. Damn, from now on I'll stick to the f*ing technical forums. I can get objective answers to my questions there.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:46:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:56:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 3:02:48 AM EST by BigMag]

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
I have neighbors who lost their homes and they arent going to .gov for handouts. They bought FUCKING INSURANCE like I did and are paying for their own fucking repairs.
You probably believe Bush is responsible for the hurricanes because he didnt sign our sovereignity over to the world with Kyoto...



Bush isn't responsible for the hurricanes. What an idiot *ss thing to say! Keep your eye on Florida over the next few months, the story isn't over yet. That's part of why Bush is giving so much money to Florida, because people's 1% deductables, actual cash value policies instead of replacement cost, and more will cause people (insured people I might add) to still lose their *ss. Many in FL will learn of this for the first time once they contact their insurance companies because their policy was changed either in the fine print or without them noticing. Hold true to your word, don't take a govt. dime.

Funny thing is lots of you bitch about the gun laws in your state...so why don't you move to a state that doesn't ban what you want and quit whinning like a bunch of pussies? I just bought my new AR over the counter with no waiting period just like I did all my rifles and pistols. Take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and move to where you are more happy? It's that simple, isn't it?
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:32:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 3:20:59 AM EST by BigMag]

Originally Posted By LWilde:
How can you logically infer that you have been "ravaged" during the last four years? What work do you do? What did you do during the Clinton years? What Bush policies cause you to lose your job? Have you been unemployed during the Bush years?

Finally, I don't "love" the Second Amendment. I respect and believe in the Constitution, including the Second Amendment...AND, can you identify ONE way in which the Patriot Act has disrupted your life? Can you tell us one occasion where the Patriot Act took away a single right given you by the first ten amendments to the Constitution? How have you been harmed byt the Patriot Act? How has anyone you know been harmed by the Patriot Act?

I await your answers.



ATTN FOLKS: This is positive and constructive criticism. Thanks for the respect Wilde.

Yes I was unemployed, for 4.5 months. I could have taken a job in the first 2 weeks and at least 3 other times during my 4.5 month respite. But I was greedy and didn't want to compete at foreign labor rates, so I held out. It paid off, I took a cut, but just the avg 15% and not what some others worse off have had to endure. What Bush policy has caused me problems, well let's see, only after 3 years did the Bush govt. lower H1B visa limits. The letter of the law says that H1B visas are to be issued for short term need and NOT to replace domestic workers. I know people who have been in this country for YEARS on an H1B that keeps getting renewed. BTW, they make about 20% less a year than me too. Also, does Bush help protect a livable wage by allowing millions of Mexicans to cross the border illegally each year, putting pressure on wages at the lowest end of the spectrum? Both parties are guilty of this, but Reagan's amnesty deal in the 80's has led to the current situation. The border has been highly publicized since 911 and nobody can defend Bush on that. Even Bush's interview with O'reilly he couldn;t give a good explanation. I want to get to your next question. Is this a good enough answer? Bush doesn't enforce the law when it comes to labor standards. Labor standards are law and the law is the law. If the law needs to be changed, the repubs have full control.

The Partiot Act, where do I start? I see the Patriot Act as "a step towards desensitizing the citizenry in preparation for a total ban of" free speech and privacy. Any movement away from privacy rights is dangerous. That hasn't (yet) affected my life directly but if it isn't struck down it will. I visit the public library, I buy stuff with my debit card, I do a ton of surfing online, AND I know what all the information can do when combined, and there are bills to allow it being propsed that piggy back off of the Patriot Act. There is some amazing software out there that could profile you very accurately if it had access to all of those data sources. Only laws prevent it from happening, it is no longer technically unfeasable. We are surrendering our freedoms in a time, with the help of technology and data, where enforcement could easily become 100% absolute. That is Nazi Germany my friend, that is the USSR. That is something I want no part of. If Bush/Ashcroft could just add the restriction of enforcement of the Patriot Act to terrorists only I'd shutup. Instead they are using provisions of the Patriot Act to get even higher sentences for methamphetamine manufacturers (no sympathy here) because they produce a hazardous by-product in their manufacture, clearly an unintended application of the law.

Thanks again Wilde for your courtesy.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:51:53 AM EST
I'm in IT and the only people that our department has laid off has been DEAD WEIGHT. If you excel at what you do, you will be the LAST one out the door. That's the way I do it. You want to make sure you're not on the bottom of the totem pole. I'm proud to be in a position that DOESN'T have a union to negotiate for me and 'protect' me, thereby giving all the no-skill fuckbags the same salary as me. I have been getting substantial increases over the last several years and have my eye on a management position.

If you can't keep a job, it's more than likely YOUR FAULT.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:27:19 AM EST
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