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Posted: 9/16/2004 6:06:51 PM EST
www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/news/article/0,19912,696240,00.html

Bush Vs. Kerry
An exclusive interview with the two presidential candidates on gun rights, conservation and other issues that affect your hunting and fishing.
By The Editors

In many respects it is difficult to imagine two candidates less alike than President George W. Bush and Senator John Kerry. Even geographically, the contrast between their respective hometowns—the hardscrabble environs of Midland, Tex., and the historical elegance of Boston, Mass.—is extreme. Politically as well, the two candidates have different views on a host of issues. But when it comes to the sportsmen’s vote, these two men want your support and they want it badly. Here, in their own words, Bush and Kerry, both self-described sportsmen, answer key questions on gun rights, conservation, public-land access and other issues that will affect your ability to fish and hunt and enjoy the outdoor traditions you hold so dear.

<snip>

OL: Do you support a renewal of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, a bill that outlawed certain models of semi-automatic firearms? Why or why not?

Bush: The best way to reduce gun crime is to vigorously enforce existing gun laws, so that guns are kept out of the hands of criminals but are not denied to responsible and law-abiding citizens. I support reauthorization of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, but I oppose additions to or expansion of the ban.

My administration has proven that enforcing existing gun laws is a highly effective strategy of combating violent crime. My administration has devoted over $1 billion, since 2001, to Project Safe Neighborhoods, my initiative for enforcing existing gun laws, and has succeeded in increasing the rate of gun crime prosecutions by 68 percent during the last three years. At the same time, the violent crime victimization rate has dropped by 21 percent.

Kerry: Yes, I support extending the assault weapons ban. The weapons that are the subject of this ban are not used for hunting, and extending this ban will not infringe on the rights of any Americans to hunt, including those who hunt with semi-automatic shotguns. It will, however, help police deal with the violence that we are witnessing in too many American cities. Today, one in five law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty is killed with an assault weapon. Innocent citizens continue to be caught in automatic weapon crossfire on city streets. Simply put, I stand with the police officers who have called for extending the ban. Police officers who put their lives on the line every day should not be outgunned by the criminals they are seeking to stop.

OL: In your view, does the Second Amendment protect the individual’s right to own firearms? Why or why not?

Bush: I firmly believe in the right of an individual to bear arms, as granted by the Second Amendment. My administration filed a brief in the Supreme Court asserting that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to own firearms and is not limited to protecting state militias.

Noted in a recent court decision, “the history of the Second Amendment reinforces the plain meaning of its text, namely that it protects individual Americans in their right to keep and bear arms whether or not they are a member of a select militia or performing active military service or training.” This same conclusion has been reaffirmed by numerous legal scholars from across the ideological spectrum.

Kerry: Yes. As a hunter and a gun owner, I believe that law-abiding American adults have the right to own firearms. As President, I will defend the Second Amendment right of law-abiding American adults to own firearms.

OL: Do you think firearms manufacturers should be responsible for the criminal misuse of their products?

Bush: I do not believe that manufacturers or distributors of legal and non-defective products should be held liable for the criminal or unlawful misuse of their product by others. If we hold entire industries responsible for the illegal actions of a few, we risk the confidence of Americans in our laws and we diminish our basic constitutional liberties. Unnecessary lawsuits are also an abuse of the legal system. They set a poor precedent for other lawful industries, cost millions of taxpayer dollars in legal fees, and result in job loss and burdens to interstate and foreign commerce.

My administration strongly supported the passage of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which would have prevented frivolous litigation against gun manufacturers and protected the thousands of workers employed by gun manufacturers and in related businesses. This legislation struck a good balance, reducing frivolous lawsuits while carefully preserving the right of individuals to have their day in court with civil liability actions. The Senate failed to pass this bill, but I will continue to support this legislation in the future.

Kerry: In cases where firearms are criminally misused, the blame should be placed on the person perpetrating the crime. However, in the few cases where it is clear that a gun dealer is consistently selling guns to criminals, gun manufacturers should exercise common sense and stop supplying those dealers. For example, 1.2 percent of licensed gun dealers supply 57 percent of the firearms recovered from criminals. In such cases, if a gun manufacturer knows that this dealer is supplying criminals and yet continues to sell guns to the dealer, then it is fair to hold the manufacturer accountable for this behavior, which is endangering public safety.



OL: Are you a gun owner? If so, what is your favorite gun?

Bush: Yes. My favorite gun is a Weatherby, Athena 20-gauge (over/under).

Kerry: My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam. I don’t own one of those now, but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle.



Article URL: www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/news/article/0,19912,696240,00.html
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:09:12 PM EST

Today, one in five law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty is killed with an assault weapon.


Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:10:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 6:11:53 PM EST by Lightning_P38]
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:10:48 PM EST
Chinese SKS.... (probably import marked)
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:13:08 PM EST
Only those deemed worthy may own such weapons. Us peons are SOL according to Kerry.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:13:26 PM EST
yeah the guy is an absolute asshat.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:14:17 PM EST
argh. vietnam again. what a loon.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:17:48 PM EST
Kerry applies the same logic to guns and taxes. He can have whatever he wants, because he is wealthy. But he wants to structure future gun laws and tax rates to make it impossible for those of less resources to ever attain what he now has. He is no more than a fucking hypocrite piece of shit.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:19:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 8:11:11 PM EST by Winston_Wolf]
... Unfuckingbelievable!

... there it is in black & white (page 4) of the article, wouldn't have believed the thread unless I read it myself!

Outdoor Life: Are you a gun owner? If so, what is your favorite gun?

Bush: Yes. My favorite gun is a Weatherby, Athena 20-gauge (over/under).

Kerry: My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam. I don’t own one of those now, but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle.

Kerry: Yes, I support extending the assault weapons ban. (page 3)
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:20:58 PM EST
Kerry has an AK or SKS

But wants to extend the AWB to ban them...

Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:26:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Kerry has an AK or SKS

But wants to extend the AWB to ban them...




He has always been known for consistency, I dont understand this at all!

- BG
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:26:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 6:28:15 PM EST by Boomholzer]

Originally Posted By Boomholzer:

Today, one in five law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty is killed with an assault weapon.





According to the Violence Policy Center "one in five (41 of 211) law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty between January 1, 1998, and December 31, 2001, were killed with assault weapons."

http://www.vpc.org/press/0305officer.htm



I did some digging: No police officers were killed with assault weapons in 1992. Four died in 1993.
If the VPC facts are true, the AW ban was effective by increasing number of officers killed by AWs by 5x.

Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:26:33 PM EST
Kerry couldnt name a single gun besides the M16.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:28:17 PM EST
Is it possible for me to hate that scumbag any more than I already do?
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:28:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Is it possible for me to hate that scumbag any more than I already do?


its going to get worse until november.

yes. you will hate him more.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:29:28 PM EST
... Oh yeah, and while you're on the Outdoor Life website, go VOTE:

What's the most important issue for sportsmen in the election?

- Gun Rights (hint, hint)
- Land Access
- Conservation
- Fisheries Management
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:34:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Is it possible for me to hate that scumbag any more than I already do?


its going to get worse until november.

yes. you will hate him more.



Great.....

I guess I better go down to the drugstore and stock up now. Do they sell Pepto Bismol in 55-gallon drums? What about Percocet?
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:37:54 PM EST
DOES KERRY OWN ASSAULT RIFLE?
IF SO, WHERE IS IT, SAF ASKS

http://saf.org/viewpr.asp?id=121

Does Sen. John Kerry, a supporter of the so-called "assault weapons" ban, own a "Communist Chinese assault rifle," as suggested by his remarks in the October issue of Outdoor Life?

If so, the Second Amendment Foundation wants to know where Kerry keeps that rifle, if it is legally registered, and how the senator got it into the United States, SAF Founder Alan Gottlieb said today.

"Senator Kerry's own words once again trip him up in an apparent hypocrisy," Gottlieb stated. "Responding to a question from Outdoor Life about whether he is a gun owner, and if so, what's his favorite gun, Kerry strongly intimates he has an assault rifle, which is illegal to own both in Massachusetts and Washington, D.C."

The Kerry quote appears on Page 82 of the October issue of Outdoor Life. In that comment, the senator states, "My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam. I don't own one of those now, but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle."

"Here's another example of Kerry running on his Vietnam service history," Gottlieb observed, "which has become a major campaign issue, for the wrong reasons. Now he's talking as if he's got an assault rifle stashed somewhere, while he's been railing against their ownership by other law-abiding American citizens.

"Senator Kerry," Gottlieb demanded, "where's the rifle? In which one of your mansions are you hiding that gun? Why should it be okay for you to have a Communist Chinese assault rifle when you think nobody else should have one? And if you don't have one, why would you intimate to Outdoor Life that you do?

"Senator," Gottlieb continued, "you told a crowd in St. Louis on Sept. 10 that, ‘As a hunter, I have never ever thought about going hunting with an AK-47 or an Uzi or anything else'. So, then why would a Communist Chinese assault rifle be your favorite gun?

"Whether he is lying about owning the gun, or just being a hypocrite," Gottlieb concluded, "this remark is just more proof that Senator Kerry is full of crap."

The Second Amendment Foundation is the nation's oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 600,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control. SAF has previously funded successful firearms-related suits against the cities of Los Angeles; New Haven, CT; and San Francisco on behalf of American gun owners, a lawsuit against the cities suing gun makers & an amicus brief & fund for the Emerson case holding the Second Amendment as an individual right.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:38:37 PM EST

I won't even bother dissecting what Kerry said - it was so filled with contradictions, distortions, lies and plain old bullshit it's not even worth it.

Kerry is nothing but two-faced, elitist ignoramus.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:38:43 PM EST
What a dumbass Kerry is. I bet if you check this out, he has an illegal full-auto AK he snuck back into the states without going through proper channels. Man, I hope the ATF raids his home and finds it. It would be hard for him to win in November if he's sitting in jail!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:39:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:40:06 PM EST
Kerry is as big as liar as Bill Clinton.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:41:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
argh. vietnam again. what a loon.




Yeah.

"Hi, my name's John Kerry. I served in Vietnam. I hate guns because I say first hand what guns can do when I served in Vietnam. I carried an M16 in Vietnam, so I've seen how well they kill people, especially in Vietnam where I served."
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:42:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By doc_Zox:
Does Sen. John Kerry, a supporter of the so-called "assault weapons" ban, own a "Communist Chinese assault rifle," as suggested by his remarks in the October issue of Outdoor Life?

If so, the Second Amendment Foundation wants to know where Kerry keeps that rifle, if it is legally registered, and how the senator got it into the United States, SAF Founder Alan Gottlieb said today.

"Senator Kerry's own words once again trip him up in an apparent hypocrisy," Gottlieb stated. "Responding to a question from Outdoor Life about whether he is a gun owner, and if so, what's his favorite gun, Kerry strongly intimates he has an assault rifle, which is illegal to own both in Massachusetts and Washington, D.C."

The Kerry quote appears on Page 82 of the October issue of Outdoor Life. In that comment, the senator states, "My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam. I don't own one of those now, but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle."


Now he doesn't actually say he "owns" one - he just said it's "one of my reminders".

I don't own an assault rifle - the family owns it.


Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:44:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By doc_Zox:

OL: Do you support a renewal of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, a bill that outlawed certain models of semi-automatic firearms? Why or why not?

Bush: I support reauthorization of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.


Kerry: Yes, I support extending the assault weapons ban.




Like I've said many times in the past, we WILL get F*UCKED either way IF another ban ends up on a presidents desk. Neither can be trusted to protect gunowners right.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:54:17 PM EST
But since the 94 AWB is no longer on the books and is no longer enforced. GWB wont sign it back right? Since he dont want new laws , just the old laws enforced.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:58:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By jff24gordn:
But since the 94 AWB is no longer on the books and is no longer enforced. GWB wont sign it back right? Since he dont want new laws , just the old laws enforced.


Yep. Just as planned.

Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:11:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 7:15:15 PM EST by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Oh yeah, and while you're on the Outdoor Life website, go VOTE:

What's the most important issue for sportsmen in the election?

- Gun Rights (hint, hint)
- Land Access
- Conservation
- Fisheries Management



I did and the results tell you where most hunters stand on the AWB.

19.7 percent: Gun Rights
10.6 percent: Land Access
29.5 percent: Conservation
39.8 percent: Fisheries Management
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:19:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 7:23:04 PM EST by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By jff24gordn:
But since the 94 AWB is no longer on the books and is no longer enforced. GWB wont sign it back right? Since he dont want new laws , just the old laws enforced.


Yep. Just as planned.




Planned my ass. You guys kill me with this "Secret Master Plan" Bullshit. The truth is in black+White. Both suck when it comes to gunowners rights and will sell us down the river if push comes to shove.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:20:29 PM EST
I'm willing to bet what he's talking about when he says a "communist chinese assault rifle" is a vietnam bring back AK. Of coruse that would make him even more of a hypocritical POS than I thought he was in the first place... if thats possible
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:21:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Oh yeah, and while you're on the Outdoor Life website, go VOTE:

What's the most important issue for sportsmen in the election?

- Gun Rights (hint, hint)
- Land Access
- Conservation
- Fisheries Management



I did and the results tell you where most hunters stand on the AWB.

19.7 percent: Gun Rights
10.6 percent: Land Access
29.5 percent: Conservation
39.8 percent: Fisheries Management



That is truely sad. Its also exactly what I've seen with my "Hunter" co-workers. They could care less about the ban.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:35:03 PM EST
Until it was clear that the AWB was dead I have never heard of the BS 1 in 5 LEO's killed with "assault rifles" , and I am a LEO! What a load of horsesh*t. Every stat I have ever seen has placed the officer's own weapon as the leading cause. Hence the widespread use of Level III holsters and body armor able to stop the officer's issued weapon.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:36:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By okrobocop:
Until it was clear that the AWB was dead I have never heard of the BS 1 in 5 LEO's killed with "assault rifles" , and I am a LEO! What a load of horsesh*t. Every stat I have ever seen has placed the officer's own weapon as the leading cause. Hence the widespread use of Level III holsters and body armor able to stop the officer's issued weapon.



I bet they count the officers weapon as an "assault weapon" in those stats because of the "high capacity" magazine
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:43:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By JeffersonDarcy:


I bet they count the officers weapon as an "assault weapon" in those stats because of the "high capacity" magazine



I think that's how it is.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:51:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By jff24gordn:
But since the 94 AWB is no longer on the books and is no longer enforced. GWB wont sign it back right? Since he dont want new laws , just the old laws enforced.


Yep. Just as planned.


Planned my ass. You guys kill me with this "Secret Master Plan" Bullshit. The truth is in black+White. Both suck when it comes to gunowners rights and will sell us down the river if push comes to shove.


Ooookay cowboy - if Kerry were Prez and the Dems had Congress I guess it'd be the same. Okeedokee.

Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:59:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By JeffersonDarcy:


I bet they count the officers weapon as an "assault weapon" in those stats because of the "high capacity" magazine



I think that's how it is.



That's what they did trying to pass the AWB in the first place. If an officer committed suicide with their service weapon, it was a death by assault weapon. They also included deaths with weapons not on the ban list. Basically they used any way they could to inflate the count.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:03:07 PM EST

Kerry: My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam. I don’t own one of those now, but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle.


Don't be a hypocrite or anything.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:05:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By doc_Zox:
DOES KERRY OWN ASSAULT RIFLE?
IF SO, WHERE IS IT, SAF ASKS



Great article. Copy emailed to Rush via the SuperSecret private account.
Awaiting the on air comments.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:09:39 PM EST
Well, that just proves it.

HE'S A FUCKING DUMBASS!!!!!!!


Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:12:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Well, that just proves it.

HE'S A FUCKING DUMBASS!!!!!!!






He has that total demokook attitude

What's good for him isn't good for you



WHat a fuckstick
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:32:56 PM EST
To all of my Dear Friends at AR15.com...


I honestly do not know how much more of this bullshit I can take. Kerry and his accomplices in the media (CBS, anyone?) are orchestrating what is probably the most extensive disinformation campaign ever attempted against liberty-loving, constitution-embracing citizens in modern history. After reading this post, I am sitting in my chair stunned.

Is it that easy to lie to the American public? Are we that goddamned stupid? If we are, saints preserve us. How any thinking person in This Great Nation could fall for this line of bullshit astounds me. The elitism and arrogance of this charlatan is beyond belief. Frank Herbert said, "scratch a liberal, and you'll find a closet aristocrat". Truer words were never spoken.

How can anyone who understands American citizenship say, "OK for me, not OK for you"? Just think, my friends, this jackass has been a member of the US Senate for 20 YEARS, and now aspires to the highest office on planet Earth! (Pontiff excluded).

I hope the recent polls are prescient, because I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE in a country with this brigand at the helm.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:52:28 PM EST
If Kerry is an AR-15 fan he's obviously a lurker here.

So I think we need a vicious, mud-slinging, McCarthyite mole hunt to root him out. What's his user name? Not
Imbroglio, obvoiusly, since he only has a .38 and a 10/22. ETH, on the theory that he's a deep cover mole?
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:14:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By jff24gordn:
But since the 94 AWB is no longer on the books and is no longer enforced. GWB wont sign it back right? Since he dont want new laws , just the old laws enforced.


Yep. Just as planned.


Planned my ass. You guys kill me with this "Secret Master Plan" Bullshit. The truth is in black+White. Both suck when it comes to gunowners rights and will sell us down the river if push comes to shove.


Ooookay cowboy - if Kerry were Prez and the Dems had Congress I guess it'd be the same. Okeedokee.




Why Yes it is, can't you read the Presidents own words? Thank God, the Dems don't control congress becuase both of these clowns are not going to help us.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:19:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:




Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:22:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:43:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By jff24gordn:
But since the 94 AWB is no longer on the books and is no longer enforced. GWB wont sign it back right? Since he dont want new laws , just the old laws enforced.


Yep. Just as planned.


Planned my ass. You guys kill me with this "Secret Master Plan" Bullshit. The truth is in black+White. Both suck when it comes to gunowners rights and will sell us down the river if push comes to shove.


Ooookay cowboy - if Kerry were Prez and the Dems had Congress I guess it'd be the same. Okeedokee.




Why Yes it is, can't you read the Presidents own words? Thank God, the Dems don't control congress becuase both of these clowns are not going to help us.



You are truly unbelievable, I mean you show no logic in your thinking, if that is what you want to call it.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:48:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
That POS has an SKS!! Just when I thought I could absolutely not detest that POS any more.



[cough]communist[/cough]



Bigfeet
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:00:02 AM EST
Yeah that fucking bastard was probably given that "Communist Assault Weapon" by his new found friends in the 70's while in France...This communist bastard MUST NEVER be our leader!

W..T...F ?? is wrong with the American people? I saw this mother fucker today at the National Guard conference and he was going on and on how he was going to get the troops body armour and all the equipment they needed and everyone was just eating it up..I have never seen such a fucking bunch of hypnotized sheep.Its like this SOB has a spell over these people. I DONT FUCKING GET IT!!!I've never seen anything like it in my life. I am so pissed I could eat nails...Fucker needs a blanket party!!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:05:07 AM EST
What a total tool Kerry is...
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:15:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By doc_Zox:
Kerry: Today, one in five law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty is killed with an assault weapon. .

]



Bovine scatology.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:22:05 AM EST

Innocent citizens continue to be caught in automatic weapon crossfire on city streets.


Where the fuck is THIS happening?
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