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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/2/2005 4:51:09 PM EDT
I live in a suburb of a large metropolitan area. I have a number of friends who are/were basically anti-gun. I have tried to convince many of them that any man who has a family is obligated to own a firearm and know how to use it to protect their family. I would explain to them that when the shit hits, the cops aren't going to be there to help them at first or at all. They basically ignored me, and many would decline the opportunity to go shooting with me because they themselves were afraid of guns or their wives would disaprove.
In the aftermath of this terrible tragedy, anti-gun America has seen the "downside" of humantiy and is shocked by the images from New Orleans. Many people get it now, that in the first few days or weeks of a disaster, you might be on your own. I have been amazed at the number and types of people in my community who are asking me how to buy, and what kind of gun to buy. One friend, whose wife used to look at me like I was insane when I discussed firearms, called me to first apologe for thinking I was "a bit of a nut", and then asked for help in choosing a self dfense weapon. AT THE INSISTENCE OF HIS GUN HATING WIFE! (sorry for the caps). I have told those who contacted me that I would help them out, but only if they would commit to learning how to operate the guns safely and effectively.
This tragedy is going to cause a tectonic shift in the gun control debate, the anti-gun rationale has been exploded. I t is now obvious to the American public that in the event of a large scale disaster or terroist attack that you need to take care of yourself. We have been vindicated.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:54:16 PM EDT
yup; they are a neccesary evil to some and a hobbie/constitutional right to others. Get 'em to the range soon before ya lose 'em; we Americans tend to forget things quick.


Speed
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:44:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By speedracer422:
yup; they are a neccesary evil to some and a hobbie/constitutional right to others. Get 'em to the range soon before ya lose 'em; we Americans tend to forget things quick.


Speed



+1- the attention span ain't what it used to be.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:50:49 PM EDT
On the contrary, I think the average sheep is going to say "How did those people get guns!? We need to keep guns out of stores so they can't ever be stolen!"
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:53:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scoutabout:
I live in a suburb of a large metropolitan area. I have a number of friends who are/were basically anti-gun. I have tried to convince many of them that any man who has a family is obligated to own a firearm and know how to use it to protect their family. I would explain to them that when the shit hits, the cops aren't going to be there to help them at first or at all. They basically ignored me, and many would decline the opportunity to go shooting with me because they themselves were afraid of guns or their wives would disaprove.
In the aftermath of this terrible tragedy, anti-gun America has seen the "downside" of humantiy and is shocked by the images from New Orleans. Many people get it now, that in the first few days or weeks of a disaster, you might be on your own. I have been amazed at the number and types of people in my community who are asking me how to buy, and what kind of gun to buy. One friend, whose wife used to look at me like I was insane when I discussed firearms, called me to first apologe for thinking I was "a bit of a nut", and then asked for help in choosing a self dfense weapon. AT THE INSISTENCE OF HIS GUN HATING WIFE! (sorry for the caps). I have told those who contacted me that I would help them out, but only if they would commit to learning how to operate the guns safely and effectively.
This tragedy is going to cause a tectonic shift in the gun control debate, the anti-gun rationale has been exploded. I t is now obvious to the American public that in the event of a large scale disaster or terroist attack that you need to take care of yourself. We have been vindicated.



Think so? check out DU. They have taken the exact opposite view that if we had better gun control none of these shooting would have happened.

Don't get me wrong, I hope you're right and more are swinging to our way of thinking. I'm just a bit more pessemistic it seems.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:04:48 PM EDT
This was talked about on NRA News today. Looks like the tide is turning in our favor.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:21:50 PM EDT
You guys are dreaming.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:38:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 11:41:59 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
You guys are dreaming.



No they are not dreaming…

The gun-grabbers will try to exploit this tragedy to their advantage and they might sway a few… BUT people know what is happening in NO, many more people now know in you cannot depend on anyone but yourself to protect your own.

I believe a subtle turning point in the gun debate were the LA riots of the early 90’s while the AWB was passed in 94 states allowing CCW increased dramatically and gun control became a back breaking political issue in 1994 that hurt anti-gun candidates. 9/11 also sent a clear message that many got. Current events the LA riots look like a garden party… a lot more people now get it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:55:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:15:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

On the contrary, I think the average sheep is going to say "How did those people get guns!? We need to keep guns out of stores so they can't ever be stolen!"



Sadly also true.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:13:53 AM EDT
Nah, I disagree. IF there is any attitude shift, it's minor and temporary.

How long was the effect of the Rodney King riots? What effect did it have on California gun laws?

No more need be said.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:22:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
You guys are dreaming.



You must be very young. We've been winning handily for a while now.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:26:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glenn_r:
Nah, I disagree. IF there is any attitude shift, it's minor and temporary.

How long was the effect of the Rodney King riots? What effect did it have on California gun laws?

No more need be said.



Agree, strictly temporary.
I know people who bought guns before Y2K to protect their family then pawned them later once they needed money or their wives objected.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:32:10 AM EDT
I have tried to tell people about SHTF scenerios - and they always say it will never happen or the govt will help. BUT even in the wake of Katrina, these anti-gunners are not converting, but saying none of this would be happening if GUNS did not exist. They are right - NONE OF THIS WOULD HAPPEN! It would be different - they would have knives, baseball bats, etc!
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:36:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
I have tried to tell people about SHTF scenerios - and they always say it will never happen or the govt will help. BUT even in the wake of Katrina, these anti-gunners are not converting, but saying none of this would be happening if GUNS did not exist. They are right - NONE OF THIS WOULD HAPPEN! It would be different - they would have knives, baseball bats, etc!


The gangbangers still would have been fully armed.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:55:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jet9999:

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
I have tried to tell people about SHTF scenerios - and they always say it will never happen or the govt will help. BUT even in the wake of Katrina, these anti-gunners are not converting, but saying none of this would be happening if GUNS did not exist. They are right - NONE OF THIS WOULD HAPPEN! It would be different - they would have knives, baseball bats, etc!


The gangbangers still would have been fully armed.



DUh - read my post
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:13:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scoutabout:
I live in a suburb of a large metropolitan area. I have a number of friends who are/were basically anti-gun. I have tried to convince many of them that any man who has a family is obligated to own a firearm and know how to use it to protect their family. I would explain to them that when the shit hits, the cops aren't going to be there to help them at first or at all. They basically ignored me, and many would decline the opportunity to go shooting with me because they themselves were afraid of guns or their wives would disaprove.
In the aftermath of this terrible tragedy, anti-gun America has seen the "downside" of humantiy and is shocked by the images from New Orleans. Many people get it now, that in the first few days or weeks of a disaster, you might be on your own. I have been amazed at the number and types of people in my community who are asking me how to buy, and what kind of gun to buy. One friend, whose wife used to look at me like I was insane when I discussed firearms, called me to first apologe for thinking I was "a bit of a nut", and then asked for help in choosing a self dfense weapon. AT THE INSISTENCE OF HIS GUN HATING WIFE! (sorry for the caps). I have told those who contacted me that I would help them out, but only if they would commit to learning how to operate the guns safely and effectively.
This tragedy is going to cause a tectonic shift in the gun control debate, the anti-gun rationale has been exploded. I t is now obvious to the American public that in the event of a large scale disaster or terroist attack that you need to take care of yourself. We have been vindicated.



People did the same thing during the LA Riots..-->Anti Gun before Riot -->New Gun Owner After Riot.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:14:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:

Think so? check out DU. They have taken the exact opposite view that if we had better gun control none of these shooting would have happened.

Don't get me wrong, I hope you're right and more are swinging to our way of thinking. I'm just a bit more pessemistic it seems.



I am not surprised, however I would bet money that the members on DUh who are screaming the loudest for Gun Control are closet Gun Owners themselves.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:20:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:27:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 6:28:15 AM EDT by happycynic]
Yes the DUmmies will always want more control, but NOLA is a great example for why gun control fails.

First of all, take the "reasonable restrictions" people. Waiting periods, one gun a month, assault weapons ban, ect.... None of this would have prevented the raiding of the gun stores, which is where a lot of guns are coming from. Moreover, a five day waiting period might really suck for some sheeple when the hurricane only gives them three days warning.

Then take the "we want England" people. Again, there would still be some gun stores which would be raided, but fewer. But more importantly, it would not have prevented the thugs from raiding the POLICE armory and getting all of the heavy firepower. Nevermind all the criminals who had them anyway.

Simple fact is that you can't close pandora's box. Even if you hate guns, there is no way "uninvent" them.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:29:51 AM EDT
I posted earlier this week about a very liberal, outspoken anti-gun mother of 4 who called me this week to ask about buying a handgun.

The tide is definately shifting.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:39:41 AM EDT
There are arguments both ways... I think that the used gun market might look good in about another 6 months - the amount of time which I have determined to be the normal attention span of most American Sheeple...

Spooky
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:40:08 AM EDT
May I make one other suggestion?

Insist that ALL of the people who come to any of you for advice and help join the NRA. Make that the one non-negotiable caveat.

Can you imagine an influx of 1-2 million more NRA members, and what effect it would have on gun control and laws in the future?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:16:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
You guys are dreaming.



No they are not dreaming…

The gun-grabbers will try to exploit this tragedy to their advantage and they might sway a few… BUT people know what is happening in NO, many more people now know in you cannot depend on anyone but yourself to protect your own.

I believe a subtle turning point in the gun debate were the LA riots of the early 90’s while the AWB was passed in 94 states allowing CCW increased dramatically and gun control became a back breaking political issue in 1994 that hurt anti-gun candidates. 9/11 also sent a clear message that many got. Current events the LA riots look like a garden party… a lot more people now get it.



The push will be for more government and less personal responsibility.

They (you all know who they are) don't want you to help yourselves.

Sure, there will be a surge in gun purchases. It will die down quick enough. Remember 9/11? How about the L.A. riots? Both accompanied by increased gun sales.

The country is run by sheeple and soccer moms. Combine that with a very slanted media and we are worse off than before.

I hope that I am wrong.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:19:27 AM EDT
My Father in law hated guns until one of his friends was car jacked and murdered. He asked me for advice and I gave him a model 19 S&W on the spot and got him to the range.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:26:39 AM EDT
The rift between the left and right will grow because of this.

The middle ground is becoming harder and harder to stand on.

This will be remembered like John Moses Browning's attack on Harper's Ferry, a true dividing moment.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 10:14:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
The rift between the left and right will grow because of this.

The middle ground is becoming harder and harder to stand on.

This will be remembered like John Moses Browning's attack on Harper's Ferry, a true dividing moment.



John Brown led the attack on Harper's Ferry.
John Moses Browning invented the BAR, 1911 and a bunch o other guns.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:25:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
The rift between the left and right will grow because of this.

The middle ground is becoming harder and harder to stand on.

This will be remembered like John Moses Browning's attack on Harper's Ferry, a true dividing moment.



Damn dude!

LOL!
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:35:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:39:35 PM EDT
My wife was the typical NYC liberal...never saw a gun or a fishing rod until she met me.
While dating, she accepted my 2A views and never voiced an argument about my guns, but also never participated in any way.

Through the years, many invites have been offered to go to the range...I think maybe once she actually came along and fired a few shots. She didnt take to it, no big deal...its not for everyone I guess...and still, she never gave me shit about my collection.

I talk a lot. I voice a lot of opinions about the way things need to be....I have opinions about gun ownership, and why a citizen needs to be armed. Over the years, I guess it was all sinking in to her brain...she never said it in so many words, but all my ranting about the state of the social order in modern society must have registered in her mind.....

Guess who asked me about learning to shoot and getting a gun of her own to have for when Im not at home?

Yep...the missus has come 180 degrees from the day I met her...she now understands why we ALL need to be armed...and this week she will be coming out to sample a few options at the range.

I expect that within the next week or two, my liberal, democrat, NYC Clinton loving girlfriend...will have fully metamorphasized into my current day, somewhat conservative, pro-2A, gun owning, republican voting wife

Reality can only be denied for so long.
We have all been called paranoid at times...lunatics at others....but we arent the ones that need to change their story everytime one of our theories about society gets shot down......rather....we simply nod and smile every time yet another situation like this past week occurs....and further justifies our rationale
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:42:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
The rift between the left and right will grow because of this.

The middle ground is becoming harder and harder to stand on.

This will be remembered like John Moses Browning's attack on Harper's Ferry, a true dividing moment.



a truly bizarre statement....

but... this is the big crisis of bush's presidency. with 2 supreme nominees coming up and and the head supreme appointment and this colosal failure of something, there will a shitstorm politically peraps the equal of vietnam in effect compressed into a year or less. the libs smell blood. and there is indeed blood, enough to float a battleship. if the libs sway the day, gun rights will suffer in the long term, not gain.

the battle is joined bigtime. on one side are those who believe in self reliance, on the other are those who believe in the power of the group, the importance of consensus and the centralization of government for the benefit of all.

the truth is only the feds could have death with this problem. they were slow becuse of the way help works (requests come from the bottom up, the feds expect localized self-reliance and forethougth). the system failed. i looks really bad. it is a golden oportunity for the socialist (dont like to call them leftists).

only way to work this problem is to out left the left on this particular issue. disaster planning and execution must be totally federalized. it will be. if it is by the right we win. if we dont, the socialists will win.

gonna be tough.

this is bushes second defining moment (the first was 911). he blew his 'capital' in iraq. you cant give freedom to someone, they have to earn it with their own blood. bush is now fighting a two front war, iraq and NO.

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:45:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
I have tried to tell people about SHTF scenerios - and they always say it will never happen or the govt will help. BUT even in the wake of Katrina, these anti-gunners are not converting, but saying none of this would be happening if GUNS did not exist. They are right - NONE OF THIS WOULD HAPPEN! It would be different - they would have knives, baseball bats, etc!



Ayup...one line of argument I have used successfully with antis when they go on about guns bring about murders...I say, "well, you know, people were being murdered long before guns were ever invented. At least with a firearm, any physical advantage an attacker has is neutralized, which is good news for smaller women being victimized by larger men."

Seems to work pretty well. Explain it diplomatically, not being exasperated or condescending and you start to exploit the chinks in their armor.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:19:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
The rift between the left and right will grow because of this.

The middle ground is becoming harder and harder to stand on.

This will be remembered like John Moses Browning's attack on Harper's Ferry, a true dividing moment.



John Brown led the attack on Harper's Ferry.
John Moses Browning invented the BAR, 1911 and a bunch o other guns.


Imagine the posibilities.
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