Katrina Gun Confiscation - What Have You Learned?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Katrina Gun Confiscation - What Have You Learned? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:33:06 PM EDT

There has always been a lot of talk about just what would happen if the orders ever came down to confiscate guns. Most of the time, it's just talk. Hurricane Katrina gave us a rare opportunity to catch a glimpse of what happens when the orders come down to confiscate guns from an area that has fairly high gun ownership rates. We have to take some lessons from that.

It's not a perfect scenario by any means. The city was already a higher crime area then usual, and since there was a hurricane, most of the sensible people left long before the SHTF. It was also a single city, half deserted, so it was easy for the law to send an unusually large number of LEOs and NGs to the area. So we can't learn too much. I would be careful about taking lessons on resistance from the hurricane - far fewer smart, sensible people then usual, and far more LEO and NG then usual.

The one big lesson that I take from this is: If the orders to confiscate guns ever come down, the LEOs and Military will follow orders enthusiastically. Don't count on the honor of the law enforcement and military community to save you. Sorry boys, if you're one of the decent LEOs and troops, it looks like you are in the vast minority. Better hope those orders never come, or we'll be in a real mess.

FWIW, I don't want to hear about how your LEO buddies all thought that it was BS and they'd never participate. That means about as much as the tinfoil hat crowd talking about how many cops they're gonna kill when the SHTF. Actions speak louder then words, and the actions tell us all we need to know. It's easy to say that it's BS while watching TV with your buddies. What will you do when you'll be fired and stripped of your guns if you don't and be left alone in a SHTF environment with no protection?

So what lessons do you take from the events in New Orleans? Let's try and keep the chest-thumping on both sides to a minimum.

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:33:59 PM EDT

[#1]

don't open the damn door?

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:34:14 PM EDT

[#2]

Bill O'Reilly denies it happened.

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:35:02 PM EDT

[#3]

Guns? What guns?

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:37:25 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
don't open the damn door?

Badda-Bing!!! We have a winner.

And, anything that comes through your door should not be considered 'friendly'.

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:52:55 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Bill O'Reilly denies it happened.

I don't suppose he watches Youtube? I guess the little old lady was Al-Quada or something.

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:55:14 PM EDT

[#6]

Keep a POS SKS handy so you can be courteous, friendly and cooperative with the LEOs and soldiers who are just trying to do their job during a serious situation.

Keep the AR, AK or FAL out of sight for in case the looters show up after the good guys leave.

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:55:25 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Bill O'Reilly denies it happened.

I don't suppose he watches Youtube? I guess the little old lady was Al-Quada or something.

I've learned that I hope Im stopped by BammaShooter or a similar constible(sp?).

other than that.....yer on your own....

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:56:08 PM EDT

[#8]

friendly neighbor to provide ~~suppression fire~~ moral support.

It takes a village.

Posted: 4/19/2007 6:56:41 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

So what lessons do you take from the events in New Orleans?

The California Highway Patrol like taking down old women.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:03:55 PM EDT

[#10]

If the orders to confiscate guns ever come down, the LEOs and Military will follow orders enthusiastically. Don't count on the honor of the law enforcement and military community to save you.

You hit the nail on the head.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:10:59 PM EDT

[#11]

Don't open the door and if you make that unfortunate mistake don't admit you have firearms.

At about a week out, if the hurricane is threatening your area Stock up on ammo. Thousands of rounds. Stock up on water and non parisable food.

Keep your doors locked and do not, do not open the door for LE or NG.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:12:24 PM EDT

[#12]

Say what you want, but I'd never enforce an unlawful order, nor would my fireteam. In my National Guard unit, those opposed to gun bans form the vast majority, and you'll hear "from my cold dead hands" more times at drill than you would at an NRA convention. If you think we'd follow those orders "enthusiastically," you are out of your mind.

We swore an oath to support AND defend the Constitution. This means that not only must we avoid trampling the Constitution ourselves, but we are obligated to prevent others from doing so. And, that goes for the state Constitution in addition to the federal one. This goes for any enemies, whether they are foreign or domestic, and we aren't allowed to equivocate, since we are sworn to bear "true faith" to the Constitution.

Sure, there are units that would obey orders to go door-to-door, but that wouldn't happen here. Most soldiers would not be willing to shoot their battle buddies, so that would leave us all in an interesting situation...

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:24:34 PM EDT

[#13]

I just hope the point man coming in my front door has Class 10 body armor on because he is going to be receiving a .50 BMG SLAP round.........................

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:26:29 PM EDT

[#14]

Assuming the SHTF is regional, my first choice would be to get out of that region. Within a days warning I could probably have everything valuable and portable in my car and a couple states away. I'm sure things are different for store owners and people physically unable to leave, which are of course the ones who would need to be armed the most.

I was surprised at how many people stayed during Katrina, and even considering that many of them didn't have the means to get out of the city I think there were plenty who just didn't want to go or wanted to face the challenge of staying there. I can't say I blame them either, but after seeing the example there's no way I'd hang around in a similar situation.

Can anyone tell me why they wouldn't just bug out other than a non mobile person to defend or general orneryness? As long as you have insurance, most stuff can be replaced.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:32:21 PM EDT

[#15]

1. Move a few guns to another location before a SHTF type event.

2. Don't answer the door, and leave a note taped to the door saying you are with family out of town.

3. If they do enter your home, say you own nothing.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:34:12 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Say what you want, but I'd never enforce an unlawful order, nor would my fireteam. In my National Guard unit, those opposed to gun bans form the vast majority, and you'll hear "from my cold dead hands" more times at drill than you would at an NRA convention. If you think we'd follow those orders "enthusiastically," you are out of your mind.

We swore an oath to support AND defend the Constitution. This means that not only must we avoid trampling the Constitution ourselves, but we are obligated to prevent others from doing so. And, that goes for the state Constitution in addition to the federal one. This goes for any enemies, whether they are foreign or domestic, and we aren't allowed to equivocate, since we are sworn to bear "true faith" to the Constitution.

Sure, there are units that would obey orders to go door-to-door, but that wouldn't happen here. Most soldiers would not be willing to shoot their battle buddies, so that would leave us all in an interesting situation...

Bullshit...
Please remember, NG / LEO's:
Searched and stripped weapons from those entering the Superdome.
Then were not enforcing the law at the " animal house " .... gang rapes, beatings, stabbings, and total chaos inside.
Did not allow people to leave the premises ( for their own well being ), for approx 5 days.

Whatever you do... do not bank on ANYONE keeping the peace, or defending your loved ones.
Katrina taught us that there are times that you have to be responsible for your OWN well being and safety.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:34:13 PM EDT

[#17]

A squad of misguided LEO's or NG's coming up the driveway should be an event we all should have prepared for by now, with no less attention and diligence than preparing for a natural disaster or major act of terror. Both are inevitable. In the case of the former, I'm not going to advise anyone. But I will say this: Know your priorities beforehand --- I mean really know them --- and you'll stand a far better chance of being able to live with whatever the outcome.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:35:35 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
don't open the damn door?

yea no fuckin shit.

.gov dick " hi there, do you have any guns in your home?"

me "oh dear no sir, I hate those things!

.gov dick "oh ok sorry to have bothered you"

TADA no taking my guns. I never got how people let them take there guns like they did.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:47:48 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Say what you want, but I'd never enforce an unlawful order, nor would my fireteam. In my National Guard unit, those opposed to gun bans form the vast majority, and you'll hear "from my cold dead hands" more times at drill than you would at an NRA convention. If you think we'd follow those orders "enthusiastically," you are out of your mind.

We swore an oath to support AND defend the Constitution. This means that not only must we avoid trampling the Constitution ourselves, but we are obligated to prevent others from doing so. And, that goes for the state Constitution in addition to the federal one. This goes for any enemies, whether they are foreign or domestic, and we aren't allowed to equivocate, since we are sworn to bear "true faith" to the Constitution.

Sure, there are units that would obey orders to go door-to-door, but that wouldn't happen here. Most soldiers would not be willing to shoot their battle buddies, so that would leave us all in an interesting situation...

That's good to hear. Trouble is that, like in N.O., they'll just import L.E. from California or similar gun hating states to do the job instead. They'll find somebody. They always do.

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:48:30 PM EDT

[#20]

1. Keep the video camera charged & out of sight
2. Never let anyone you don't know into your house unless they have a warrant.
3. Guns? Never saw the need for those things, can I buy/borrow one of yours?
4. No, you can't come in.

-JTP

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:50:29 PM EDT

[#21]

I'm afraid it would probably go more like

.gov dick " hi there, do you have any guns in your home?"

me "oh dear no sir, I hate those things!

.gov dick "oh ok we're just going to come in and be sure. Keep your hands where I can see them."

Posted: 4/19/2007 7:51:14 PM EDT

[#22]

What have I learned ? ......I've learned that Arizona has passed a law that specifically forbids "officials" from confiscating weapons during an emergency.
I love Arizona.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:04:59 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Bullshit...
Please remember, NG / LEO's:
Searched and stripped weapons from those entering the Superdome.
Then were not enforcing the law at the " animal house " .... gang rapes, beatings, stabbings, and total chaos inside.
Did not allow people to leave the premises ( for their own well being ), for approx 5 days.

Whatever you do... do not bank on ANYONE keeping the peace, or defending your loved ones.
Katrina taught us that there are times that you have to be responsible for your OWN well being and safety.

Are you calling bullshit on what I said? Are you calling me a liar?

I won't dispute that there are units out there that will violate their oaths. However, my unit would be overwhelmingly opposed to gun confiscations.

The key here is not on whether "cops" or "soldiers" in general will confiscate guns, but on whether the cops and soldiers in YOUR COMMUNITY will do so. And, whether it is likely that your community will import gun-grabbers from elsewhere.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:13:29 PM EDT

[#24]

BiscuitsJaM,

No offense to you personally.

You are not in charge... maybe you should be.

I suppose you have thought about this situation.
With orders to disarm... and then to disobey.... hmmm

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:20:26 PM EDT

[#25]

I learned that it isn't the Lone Beat Cop that comes to the door to take your weapons away

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:24:54 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
There has always been a lot of talk about just what would happen if the orders ever came down to confiscate guns. Most of the time, it's just talk. Hurricane Katrina gave us a rare opportunity to catch a glimpse of what happens when the orders come down to confiscate guns from an area that has fairly high gun ownership rates. We have to take some lessons from that.

It's not a perfect scenario by any means. The city was already a higher crime area then usual, and since there was a hurricane, most of the sensible people left long before the SHTF. It was also a single city, half deserted, so it was easy for the law to send an unusually large number of LEOs and NGs to the area. So we can't learn too much. I would be careful about taking lessons on resistance from the hurricane - far fewer smart, sensible people then usual, and far more LEO and NG then usual.

The one big lesson that I take from this is: If the orders to confiscate guns ever come down, the LEOs and Military will follow orders enthusiastically. Don't count on the honor of the law enforcement and military community to save you. Sorry boys, if you're one of the decent LEOs and troops, it looks like you are in the vast minority. Better hope those orders never come, or we'll be in a real mess.

FWIW, I don't want to hear about how your LEO buddies all thought that it was BS and they'd never participate. That means about as much as the tinfoil hat crowd talking about how many cops they're gonna kill when the SHTF. Actions speak louder then words, and the actions tell us all we need to know. It's easy to say that it's BS while watching TV with your buddies. What will you do when you'll be fired and stripped of your guns if you don't and be left alone in a SHTF environment with no protection?

So what lessons do you take from the events in New Orleans? Let's try and keep the chest-thumping on both sides to a minimum.

Lesson learned:

1) If you stay behind to 'weather the storm' you're an idiot... Pack your guns and GTFO, then come back once things have stabilized. Have good insurance...

2) If you ignore (1) and live in a 'Democrat City' with a fruitcake for a mayor, he may just try and confiscate guns... Note that no gun confiscations occurred in TX in the wake of Rita - Hmm...

3) The only defense to (2) if you don't have the common sense to pack the fuck up and leave before the damn hurricane hits is to make sure your state passes a law preventing such confiscations.... Several states have done so since Katrina...

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:27:46 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
What have I learned ? ......I've learned that Arizona has passed a law that specifically forbids "officials" from confiscating weapons during an emergency.
I love Arizona.

Those laws mean nothing. Lip service, that's all. The law basically says we will follow the 2nd amendment. If they didn't follow the second amendment taking peoples guns, what makes you think they will follow that new law.

Years before Katrina one of my old Criminal justice professor (former cop) told me something along the lines of:

"You think you have rights? Wait till there is a disaster, you will lose them so fast that your head will spin."

Those rights in the constitution are just words. Nothing more, nothing less. That is why our founding fathers wanted us armed.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:28:06 PM EDT

[#28]

Search Warrant?

Quoted:
I'm afraid it would probably go more like

.gov dick " hi there, do you have any guns in your home?"

me "oh dear no sir, I hate those things!

.gov dick "oh ok we're just going to come in and be sure. Keep your hands where I can see them."

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:30:00 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What have I learned ? ......I've learned that Arizona has passed a law that specifically forbids "officials" from confiscating weapons during an emergency.
I love Arizona.

Those laws mean nothing. Lip service, that's all. The law basically says we will follow the 2nd amendment. If they didn't follow the second amendment taking peoples guns, what makes you think they will follow that new law.

Years before Katrina one of my old Criminal justice professor (former cop) told me something along the lines of:

"You think you have rights? Wait till there is a disaster, you will lose them so fast that your head will spin."

Those rights in the constitution are just words. Nothing more, nothing less. That is why our founding fathers wanted us armed.

Under current jurisprudence, the 2A does not apply to the states... Like it or not, that is the way the courts see it...

These state laws, of course, apply to the states that pass them...

The same argument could be made against preemption laws, but those seem to be working SPLENDIDLY to keep libby city governments in line as to gun-bans during non-disaster times... The same should apply to confiscation-prohibitions...

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:32:03 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Bill O'Reilly denies it happened.

He has said the order to confiscate was part of the larger mandatory evacuation order thereby making it ok to take away possibly the only thing preventing individuals from being murdered and/or robbed. I believe he stated it would make it safer for law enforcement to do their job.

Now he's pushing for psychological records to be made available (mandatory by law) on the instant checks for firearms purchases.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:35:17 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What have I learned ? ......I've learned that Arizona has passed a law that specifically forbids "officials" from confiscating weapons during an emergency.
I love Arizona.

Those laws mean nothing. Lip service, that's all. The law basically says we will follow the 2nd amendment. If they didn't follow the second amendment taking peoples guns, what makes you think they will follow that new law.

Years before Katrina one of my old Criminal justice professor (former cop) told me something along the lines of:

"You think you have rights? Wait till there is a disaster, you will lose them so fast that your head will spin."

Those rights in the constitution are just words. Nothing more, nothing less. That is why our founding fathers wanted us armed.

Under current jurisprudence, the 2A does not apply to the states... Like it or not, that is the way the courts see it...

These state laws, of course, apply to the states that pass them...

The same argument could be made against preemption laws, but those seem to be working SPLENDIDLY to keep libby city governments in line as to gun-bans during non-disaster times... The same should apply to confiscation-prohibitions...

Then why did the NOLA court rule the confiscation was a breach of the 2nd amendment?

Sure the preemption laws have been working well, if the mayor sends his cops out to arrest you anyways, are you going to be happy, even if you will win the court case? Laws mean NOTHING when you have people in power who wish to disregard them, and people that will follow those orders. Didn't the police chief already come out and specifically say that he will disregard that law again if he needs to?

Those who have both the ability and the will to use force decide what your rights are, not some piece of paper, and not what your own beliefs hold. I'm sorry if such a concept is scary, it's the truth.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:38:18 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What have I learned ? ......I've learned that Arizona has passed a law that specifically forbids "officials" from confiscating weapons during an emergency.
I love Arizona.

Those laws mean nothing. Lip service, that's all. The law basically says we will follow the 2nd amendment. If they didn't follow the second amendment taking peoples guns, what makes you think they will follow that new law.

Years before Katrina one of my old Criminal justice professor (former cop) told me something along the lines of:

"You think you have rights? Wait till there is a disaster, you will lose them so fast that your head will spin."

Those rights in the constitution are just words. Nothing more, nothing less. That is why our founding fathers wanted us armed.

+ 1

They are gonna take orders and do WTF they are told.... or else.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:41:33 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Under current jurisprudence, the 2A does not apply to the states... Like it or not, that is the way the courts see it...

Whether or not the 2nd Amendment applies to the states, our state constitution has its own protection. And, in many ways, our protection is written in stronger language.

I believe you'll find the same is true of most state constitutions.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:44:24 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

+ 1

They are gonna take orders and do WTF they are told.... or else.

I choose "else." What is "else" anyway?

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:46:38 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Keep a POS SKS handy so you can be courteous, friendly and cooperative with the LEOs and soldiers who are just trying to do their job during a serious situation.

Keep the AR, AK or FAL out of sight for in case the looters show up after the good guys leave.

This is the most pragmatic response.

Staying low profile would be the name of the game.

Plus, surreptitiously document with video if at all possible

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:49:39 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

+ 1

They are gonna take orders and do WTF they are told.... or else.

I choose "else." What is "else" anyway?

Else be jailed or court martialed for disobeying a 'lawful' order...regardless of whether the order was lawful or not.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:52:29 PM EDT

[#37]

Once the constitution doesnt apply you are under siege by a hostile occupying force. That is what I have learned

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:53:40 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

+ 1

They are gonna take orders and do WTF they are told.... or else.

I choose "else." What is "else" anyway?

Take issue if you like.

Back in the old days:
They would shoot a deserter...

YOU WILL FOLLOW ORDERS.
Now ... I speculate an article 15 for failure to obey a direct order (depending on the circumstances) would range from a dishonorable discharge to 10 years hard labor.

You may want to make your mind up before your are " forced " to make a decision.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:55:05 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Guns? What guns?

yeah, if they think they are just following orders, then they know they broke their oath to go work for the dark side (think StarWars), and so therefore, thee confiscator shall no longer be considered a friendly, and if there are rules for everyone to play by, but these people are playing outside of the rules, then they no longer apply to all involved.

It's pretty obvious now what is REALLY happening to this country.

Stand up for what is righteous.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:55:52 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Else be jailed or court martialed for disobeying a 'lawful' order...regardless of whether the order was lawful or not.

There are worse things to go to jail for. It's not like I'd miss much of a paycheck.

If that's it, they don't have much to hang over our heads. The odds of a court martial are VERY slim anyway, because of the political implications. Chances are, they'd try to push an Article 15, which I can always request a Court Martial in lieu of... The most likely scenario is reduction in rank to E1, loss of pay, and extra duty. Jail time or a discharge are possible, but pretty unlikely. Worst case, the martyred soldier can make a big PR thing out of it.

Hopefully, one of the officers or NCOs higher in the chain of command would put a stop to things long before they got to me though.

Posted: 4/19/2007 9:58:56 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Else be jailed or court martialed for disobeying a 'lawful' order...regardless of whether the order was lawful or not.

There are worse things to go to jail for. It's not like I'd miss much of a paycheck.

If that's it, they don't have much to hang over our heads. The odds of either jail or court martial are VERY slim anyway, because of the political implications. And, if they did decide to make a martyr out of one of us, there are plenty of ways to publicize that.

Its about right and wrong. Good and Evil. People have to choose a side. We don't want to undo 200+ years of forward movement.

It depends what kind of person you are. Remember that actions speak louder than words.

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:01:12 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Search Warrant?

Quoted:
I'm afraid it would probably go more like

.gov dick " hi there, do you have any guns in your home?"

me "oh dear no sir, I hate those things!

.gov dick "oh ok we're just going to come in and be sure. Keep your hands where I can see them."

We're talking about people who are already violating the Second Amendment by confiscating your firearms. I don't think it's wise to assume that they would not choose to disregard the Fourth Amendment as well in a Katrina-scale emergency.

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:01:58 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Else be jailed or court martialed for disobeying a 'lawful' order...regardless of whether the order was lawful or not.

There are worse things to go to jail for. It's not like I'd miss much of a paycheck.

If that's it, they don't have much to hang over our heads. The odds of a court martial are VERY slim anyway, because of the political implications. Chances are, they'd try to push an Article 15, which I can always request a Court Martial in lieu of... The most likely scenario is reduction in rank to E1, loss of pay, and extra duty. Jail time or a discharge are possible, but pretty unlikely. Worst case, the martyred soldier can make a big PR thing out of it.

Hopefully, one of the officers or NCOs higher in the chain of command would put a stop to things long before they got to me though.

Spc. 4 Michael New

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:03:43 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Search Warrant?

Quoted:
I'm afraid it would probably go more like

.gov dick " hi there, do you have any guns in your home?"

me "oh dear no sir, I hate those things!

.gov dick "oh ok we're just going to come in and be sure. Keep your hands where I can see them."

We're talking about people who are already violating the Second Amendment by confiscating your firearms. I don't think it's wise to assume that they would not choose to disregard the Fourth Amendment as well in a Katrina-scale emergency.

That's what I'm saying. No more rules. Its up to the people as a collective whole to stop this.

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:11:06 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Search Warrant?

Quoted:
I'm afraid it would probably go more like

.gov dick " hi there, do you have any guns in your home?"

me "oh dear no sir, I hate those things!

.gov dick "oh ok we're just going to come in and be sure. Keep your hands where I can see them."

We're talking about people who are already violating the Second Amendment by confiscating your firearms. I don't think it's wise to assume that they would not choose to disregard the Fourth Amendment as well in a Katrina-scale emergency.

You got it friend and it doesnt get more simple. Once the 2nd amendment is out the window everyrthing else in the constitution is null and void.

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:12:17 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Spc. 4 Michael New

Errr, it doesn't sound like wearing a bit of blue cloth violates the constitution OR constitutes an unlawful order.

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:13:15 PM EDT

[#47]

ORDERS ARE ORDERS :

" YOU STRIP THOSE PEOPLE OF WEAPONS, AND PUT THEM IN HERE".

" uuuh.. no man, i ain't gonna do that.... "

" CUFF YOURSELF AND GET YOUR ASS IN THE BACKSEAT OF THE FOOKIN' HUMVEE "

" uhh ... i ain't gonna do that either "...

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:15:50 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
ORDERS ARE ORDERS :

" YOU STRIP THOSE PEOPLE OF WEAPONS, AND PUT THEM IN HERE".

" uuuh.. no man, i ain't gonna do that.... "

" CUFF YOURSELF AND GET YOUR ASS IN THE BACKSEAT OF THE FOOKIN' HUMVEE "

" uhh ... i ain't gonna do that either "...

Orders are not orders. Some orders are lawful, others are not.

For an unlawful order, the first thing to do is to respectfully inform whoever issued it that you believe the order to be unlawful. You do NOT respond with "uuuh.. no man".

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:17:33 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Spc. 4 Michael New

Errr, it doesn't sound like wearing a bit of blue cloth violates the constitution OR constitutes an unlawful order.

I, and many others, are of the opinion that being forced to wear the uniform of a foreign power and accept command from foreign officers violated his oath...and the oath he took is the same one we're arguing about here regarding the confiscation of firearms.

That is, he disobeyed an unlawful order and has been wrung out to dry for it.

Posted: 4/19/2007 10:18:53 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ORDERS ARE ORDERS :

" YOU STRIP THOSE PEOPLE OF WEAPONS, AND PUT THEM IN HERE".

" uuuh.. no man, i ain't gonna do that.... "

" CUFF YOURSELF AND GET YOUR ASS IN THE BACKSEAT OF THE FOOKIN' HUMVEE "

" uhh ... i ain't gonna do that either "...

Orders are not orders. Some orders are lawful, others are not.

At this point in time, you may expect a rifle butt at the back of your head from someone that " TAKES ORDERS ".

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Katrina Gun Confiscation - What Have You Learned? (Page 1 of 2)

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