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Posted: 4/28/2011 7:09:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:10:45 AM EDT
He's fucked.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:13:05 AM EDT
Info is limited and I don't claim to know Kansas law, but it certainly looks like a bad shoot.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:13:08 AM EDT
I wonder if they'll eventually give up and drop it. The area does not seem to have much sympathy for the victims, right or wrong.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:13:50 AM EDT
Yoder says the homeowner grabbed a rifle, chased the burglar outside and opened fire on a group of about four people.




Not smart to shoot at fleeing suspects.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:13:56 AM EDT
Title is a little misleading.

Chasing them outside and then shooting them is usually frowned upon.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:15:52 AM EDT
you gotta shoot before they pass the threashold(sp)
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:16:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:18:28 AM EDT
Chase one guy outside, shoot at four people?
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:18:59 AM EDT
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:21:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


"Kansas law allows the use of force against a burglary suspect inside a home or workplace. In this case, deputies said the suspects were already outside."

Once someone is fleeing, unless you can articulate otherwise, they are no longer considered a threat.
Had he shot them all inside the house, it's likely nothing would have come of it.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:22:15 AM EDT


"In this case, deputies said the suspects were already outside."



"Already" outside?



That infers they had "Already" been inside.





Might have been a good shoot here.



We have 2 cases where suspects were shot and killed outside after being inside with no charges filed.



One was Teenager shot in the ass with a 12 guage when he exited a window. He bled to death outside.



The second is a fleeing burglar shot in the backyard as he headed towards the fence.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:22:57 AM EDT
He just didn't want to clean blood and brains from the carpet and walls of his house !
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:22:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.

Now you go to jail. Sorry but the law should be, you can chase any motherfucker to the ends of the earth if they break into your house. You know what'll happen break ins will stop.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:29:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GlockZen:
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.

Now you go to jail. Sorry but the law should be, you can chase any motherfucker to the ends of the earth if they break into your house. You know what'll happen break ins will stop.


movies aren't reality.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:33:12 AM EDT



Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:



Originally Posted By GlockZen:


Originally Posted By Mach:

It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.




Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.



Now you go to jail. Sorry but the law should be, you can chase any motherfucker to the ends of the earth if they break into your house. You know what'll happen break ins will stop.




movies aren't reality.


Yea, and the reality is if the piece of shit will break in once he'll do it again so it should be a good shoot even as they are fleeing.
 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:33:31 AM EDT
He must have thought they were going to come back and he feared for his life.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:36:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


"Kansas law allows the use of force against a burglary suspect inside a home or workplace. In this case, deputies said the suspects were already outside."

Once someone is fleeing, unless you can articulate otherwise, they are no longer considered a threat.
Had he shot them all inside the house, it's likely nothing would have come of it.


Like I said, it''s sad when someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they run away, even if they are across the street.

I understand the law. I am commenting on the law.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:37:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:37:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:
Originally Posted By GlockZen:
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.

Now you go to jail. Sorry but the law should be, you can chase any motherfucker to the ends of the earth if they break into your house. You know what'll happen break ins will stop.


movies aren't reality.

Yea, and the reality is if the piece of shit will break in once he'll do it again so it should be a good shoot even as they are fleeing.


 


10 points for Griffindor
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:38:42 AM EDT
Bad shoot.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:40:12 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Mach:



Originally Posted By thedoctors308:


Originally Posted By Mach:

It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.




"Kansas law allows the use of force against a burglary suspect inside a home or workplace. In this case, deputies said the suspects were already outside."



Once someone is fleeing, unless you can articulate otherwise, they are no longer considered a threat.

Had he shot them all inside the house, it's likely nothing would have come of it.




Like I said, it''s sad when someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they run away, even if they are across the street.



I understand the law. I am commenting on the law.


If I'm your neighbor across the street, I don't want you putting rounds into my home as you fire a rifle on the run, chasing someone who is no longer a threat.



I'm a STRONG supporter of stand your ground laws, but stand your ground doesn't mean pursue them into the street and open fire.



 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:42:37 AM EDT
Good shoot or not, this man will be drained financially in legal fees etc.  

Things to think about folks when faced with a deadly force situation.  If the person is no longer a threat while running away is it worth being "right" but destitute?  
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:44:14 AM EDT
four people on his property.  at least one having been inside his home already. thats enough to cause fear for your life.   I wouldn't convict him.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:44:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:

Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


"Kansas law allows the use of force against a burglary suspect inside a home or workplace. In this case, deputies said the suspects were already outside."

Once someone is fleeing, unless you can articulate otherwise, they are no longer considered a threat.
Had he shot them all inside the house, it's likely nothing would have come of it.


Like I said, it''s sad when someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they run away, even if they are across the street.

I understand the law. I am commenting on the law.

If I'm your neighbor across the street, I don't want you putting rounds into my home as you fire a rifle on the run, chasing someone who is no longer a threat.

I'm a STRONG supporter of stand your ground laws, but stand your ground doesn't mean pursue them into the street and open fire.
 


That's two separate things.  If he chases them outside and shoots them, who gives a shit?  If he actually hits your house that's another story.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:45:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GlockZen:
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.

Now you go to jail. Sorry but the law should be, you can chase any motherfucker to the ends of the earth if they break into your house. You know what'll happen break ins will stop.


How do you prove that they were inside the house?  You cant just shoot people walking by
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:46:34 AM EDT
Am I missing something?  4 burglers are on your property in the middle of the night, 2 are shot by the property owner and now he's been arrested?  WTF is wrong with this country?  Kansas needs a castle doctorine I guess

Hope the state comes to it's senses before it ruins this guys life.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:51:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2011 7:55:57 AM EDT by substandard]
Kansas has the "Castle Doctrine" but from what I have heard and read locally the man shot at the perps when they were OUTSIDE of his house.



Sumner county is pretty much conservative and religous in make up, so if it does go to a jury I would suspect he has a decent chance of getting off. The Kansas Rifle Assoc. has taken a great interest in this as it is the first time the Castle Doctrine has been to court.



If the home owner did shoot them in his yard, then it wasn't the smartest move, however if I was on the jury he would walk. We need to plant a few more "troubled yutes" for the good of the Nation..



ETA: The links Bama gave are from a Kansas City newspaper and a Wichita TV station. Both of these cities are large and anti-gun, so they most likely will not give a fair view. Unlike the large cities, most of Kansas is pro-gun, anti-Obama, leave us be types.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:56:16 AM EDT



Originally Posted By joedirt1977:



Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:




Originally Posted By Mach:


Originally Posted By thedoctors308:


Originally Posted By Mach:

It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.




"Kansas law allows the use of force against a burglary suspect inside a home or workplace. In this case, deputies said the suspects were already outside."



Once someone is fleeing, unless you can articulate otherwise, they are no longer considered a threat.

Had he shot them all inside the house, it's likely nothing would have come of it.




Like I said, it''s sad when someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they run away, even if they are across the street.



I understand the law. I am commenting on the law.


If I'm your neighbor across the street, I don't want you putting rounds into my home as you fire a rifle on the run, chasing someone who is no longer a threat.



I'm a STRONG supporter of stand your ground laws, but stand your ground doesn't mean pursue them into the street and open fire.

 




That's two separate things.  If he chases them outside and shoots them, who gives a shit?  If he actually hits your house that's another story.



Allowing people to shoot at fleeing suspects seems like a poor policy, and would almost certainly create situations that in turn, embolden the anti gun crowd to further restrict our rights.



Again, in your own home, you should be allowed to shoot any intruder who has made unlawful entry, but once that person is fleeing from your property its a whole different situation.



 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:56:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FlashHole:
Am I missing something?  4 burglers are on your property in the middle of the night, 2 are shot by the property owner and now he's been arrested?  WTF is wrong with this country?  Kansas needs a castle doctorine I guess

Hope the state comes to it's senses before it ruins this guys life.


The castle doctrine does NOT extend to pursuing and shooting outside the house.

We do not have a death penalty for burglary, and if they are running away the threat is probably over.


Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:58:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GlockZen:
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.

Now you go to jail. Sorry but the law should be, you can chase any motherfucker to the ends of the earth if they break into your house. You know what'll happen break ins will stop.


Self defense shooting is good. Being Judge and executioner is not.

Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:59:44 AM EDT
Let them get outside.....not good
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:00:14 AM EDT

Yoder says the homeowner grabbed a rifle, chased the burglar outside and opened fire on a group of about four people


He's fucked, Bad shoot, go to jail do not pass go.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:00:36 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Tin_Star:



Originally Posted By GlockZen:


Originally Posted By Mach:

It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.




Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.



Now you go to jail. Sorry but the law should be, you can chase any motherfucker to the ends of the earth if they break into your house. You know what'll happen break ins will stop.




Self defense shooting is good. Being Judge and executioner is not.





Breaking and entering is not a capital crime, so shooting a burgler as they flee would not be a just act.



If they are in your home, and pose a threat to you, that is a totally different situation.
 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:04:06 AM EDT



Originally Posted By dawgm:


four people on his property.  at least one having been inside his home already. thats enough to cause fear for your life.   I wouldn't convict him.


I wouldn't either. I rate thieves up there with murders and rapists.



But I won't be on that jury. That guy is probably fucked.



 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:07:59 AM EDT




Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:

He must have thought they were going to come back and he feared for his life.


That was why the homeowner who shot the guy in the backyard here was not prosecuted.



The reason given was he was headed for a fence. If he failed to clear it, he could have turned and come back towards the homeowner.

Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:08:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2011 8:12:15 AM EDT by Deadeye675]
Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:

Originally Posted By Tin_Star:
Originally Posted By GlockZen:
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.

Now you go to jail. Sorry but the law should be, you can chase any motherfucker to the ends of the earth if they break into your house. You know what'll happen break ins will stop.


Self defense shooting is good. Being Judge and executioner is not.


Breaking and entering is not a capital crime, so shooting a burgler as they flee would not be a just act.

If they are in your home, and pose a threat to you, that is a totally different situation.


 


bullshit... maybe not in Illinois and hell maybe not by the letter of the law here in Tn, but I'll be damned if it isnt just.


ETA-

anyone breaking into my house needs to have watched Big Jake

Jacob 'Big Jake' McCandles: And now *you* understand. Anything goes wrong, anything at all... your fault, my fault, nobody's fault... it won't matter - I'm gonna blow your head off. No matter what else happens, no matter who gets killed I'm gonna blow your head off.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:09:48 AM EDT
Maybe it goes against the letter of the laws, but I'm not ready to convict based on what happened. Guy was woken up at 3 am out of the blue, he did the best he could to survive. He may not have had time to think it through and was going off of instinct. Plus, any of those people could have been armed and he didn't know how many more people might have been around. Don't want to be shot? Don't become a home invader. If I was the DA, he wouldn't be charged, plain and simple. I'd throw the book at the burglars.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:10:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2011 8:12:23 AM EDT by EternalVigilance]
I think it is situationally dependent.  Hypothetically, for example, in a case where there has been an exchange of gunfire and the fight is on, it's not like you are just going to be able to "turn it off" the moment your attacker retreats.  It would be hard to make this assessment without 'being there".  I could see something like this happening where the defenders mental trigger to fight is tripped, and in a matter of seconds, he is supposed to go from 600 mph to zero just because of some magic line drawn at his front door?  I don't agree that this is a hard and fast rule.  If I'm in fear for my life, I'm fighting until the threat is no longer a threat.  Being inside or outside or running in the opposite direction (running away?  running for cover?) after a threat has put my safety and my families safety in jeapordy doesn't mean shit to me.  I think the possibility exists that is quite reasonable to postulate that in this man's mind, at the time, he was still in fear for his life.

Remember that self-defense does not require that the threat is ACTUALLY a threat.  Only that a reasonable person would be in fear for their life and would believe that it is necessary to use lethal force in order to stop the perceived threat.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:11:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TX80:
Maybe it goes against the letter of the laws, but I'm not ready to convict based on what happened. Guy was woken up at 3 am out of the blue, he did the best he could to survive. He may not have had time to think it through and was going off of instinct. Plus, any of those people could have been armed and he didn't know how many more people might have been around. Don't want to be shot? Don't become a home invader. If I was the DA, he wouldn't be charged, plain and simple. I'd throw the book at the burglars.


+1
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:12:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By Mach:
It's sad that someone can break into your house at 3 am and you can't shoot them as they are getting away.


"Kansas law allows the use of force against a burglary suspect inside a home or workplace. In this case, deputies said the suspects were already outside."

Once someone is fleeing, unless you can articulate otherwise, they are no longer considered a threat.
Had he shot them all inside the house, it's likely nothing would have come of it.


What happens when you have a homeowner claim to shooting before the suspect turns and runs, and the suspect has holes in his/her back? I've seen somewhere online (I know, ) that one jurisdiction did some forensics that showed a sequence could develop where this happened and the shooter should be cleared.  How often does this happen, anyway?
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:15:13 AM EDT
Yeah I don't think it is reasonable to expect a man to be woken up out of a dead sleep at three A.M. with people breaking into his house, and expect him to instantly go from "fight for your life and crush the enemy" mode into "let the poor man run away" just because the home invader's passed some magical threshhold
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:17:56 AM EDT
This little note at the top of the comments was pretty cool.

Question Of When Deadly Force Can Be Used Generates Comments
A botched burglary that we first reported yesterday, has many up in arms. Comments on our website about a Sumner County homeowner arrested after shooting men he caught on his property have reached record numbers.
Reporter: Chris Frank
Email Address: chris.frank@kake.com
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:21:15 AM EDT
According to the article, he chased one guy out of the house, then opened up on a group of people outside.

I don't think it's going to go well for him.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:22:15 AM EDT
Dude, messed up.  If they're running out of the house, don't shoot.  Bullet holes in the back are hard to defend in court.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:28:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2011 8:28:54 AM EDT by cyborg543]
Here, let me sum up how this thread is going to play out based on past examples -


ARFCOM GD COMMANDO:  If someone steals my newspaper, I'll shoot to kill.  It's the law.  I'll stack repo men 10 feet high, how dare they try to do their legally and morally justifiable work.  Trick-or-treaters get a bean bag round, that's my only concession. Little snot nosed punks looking for a hand-out.

NON CRAZY GUY:  That would be liable to ruin your life, maybe put you in jail, and it's un-Christian and immoral right on the face of it.  Even just from a practical aspect, for your own best interests, you really need to be on the side of the angels when you start blasting people.

ARFCOM GD COMMANDO: Fuck you, you communist UN one-worlder yankee.  The problem with this country is not enough people executing each other under questionable circumstances.  Chasing down people and killing them makes for good public relations and news articles for all gun owners.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:30:48 AM EDT
I think the only way you might shoot them outside and get away with it would be to stand in front of their vehicle in order to detain them. If the driver attempts to run you over, say you were in fear for your life and shoot the driver. Then you risk being shot by the responding Police.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:43:54 AM EDT



Originally Posted By cyborg543:


Here, let me sum up how this thread is going to play out based on past examples -





ARFCOM GD COMMANDO:  If someone steals my newspaper, I'll shoot to kill.  It's the law.  I'll stack repo men 10 feet high, how dare they try to do their legally and morally justifiable work.  Trick-or-treaters get a bean bag round, that's my only concession. Little snot nosed punks looking for a hand-out.



NON CRAZY GUY:  That would be liable to ruin your life, maybe put you in jail, and it's un-Christian and immoral right on the face of it.  Even just from a practical aspect, for your own best interests, you really need to be on the side of the angels when you start blasting people.



ARFCOM GD COMMANDO: Fuck you, you communist UN one-worlder yankee.  The problem with this country is not enough people executing each other under questionable circumstances.  Chasing down people and killing them makes for good public relations and news articles for all gun owners.


LOL you put it way better than I could.
 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:46:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2011 8:48:40 AM EDT by tc556guy]
Originally Posted By GlockZen:
Thats whats wrong with us today, how many times in old movies, did the homeowner chase out the bad guy shooting off his rifle, as the bad guy drove out or ran away.


Maybe people shouldn't base their force decisions on old movies.

Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:
I'm a STRONG supporter of stand your ground laws, but stand your ground doesn't mean pursue them into the street and open fire.
 


I thinka  whole lotta people hear "don't have to retreat" and think that thats exactly what it means..that as you said, they can chase them into the streets shooting.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:48:34 AM EDT
The homeowner was arrested on suspicion of aggravated battery...

LEOs / Lawyers: Would you consider such a charge as 'giving him a pass'? Or is that a standard sentence for someone in a similiar, but less-than-righteous circumstance?
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 8:56:23 AM EDT
Good thing he didn't chase them into a neighbors yard and shoot their dog.

There would be hell to pay.
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