My son's mother-in-law was diagnosed as having CJD, aka Mad Cow Disease, December 2. She died Sunday night, December 21. So, I guess you could say that I am very concerned about this situation in the United States. Also have a tendency to think the authorities may be downplaying the situation because of the tremendous economic repercussions from it.
 
Today, a reporter from the Salina Journal contacted my son. It will be interesting to see if they run a story about it in the next few days. http://www.saljournal.com

[url]http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cjd.html[/url]
You might give this a read.

"If eating cattle with BSE did cause CJD in humans, then we could expect more cases in countries with BSE than in those without it. And we could also expect more cases since the outbreak of BSE than before it. But neither is the case. As the table shows there are no more cases of CJD in Britain, which has by far the highest incidence of BSE, than in other European countries where there is none"

BS...Worldwide there were 150+ cases of CJD last year. All but a handfull were in England.

Oh crap.  This is going to ruin cattle producers, and just when prices got good for them.

I bet Hillary's making a killing in the futures market, though [;)]

[bs] I guess she ate cow brains or spines.

Prions disease can be transmitted through muscle meat........

Nova did a great special about BSE/CJD/Prion diseases a couple of years ago.  The [b]concern[/b] over BSE is its ability to readily cross species barriers which other prion diseases have a difficult time doing.  Presumably infected cow material made into food for mink farms/zoo animals was able to transmit the disease.  

In residency, I saw about 1-2 cases of CJD per year.  We had a drawing area of about 1.5 million.  In some cases, it was readily apparent that the patient had had exposure to brain/spinal fluid material.  Such was the case for a neurosurgeon, and a medical photographer who had handled brains without gloves.  But it is true that some of the cases cannot be attributed to hereditary origins or obvious exposure.

Because of the long incubation period that can span [b]several decades[/b], I don't see how we can conclude that BSE cannot cause disease in humans.  Only time will tell.  
     

Can you tell me more about her?
Travels?
Eating habits?
Missionary service?
anything else that seems to stand out?

the problem is that the science community don't enough about what causes this wasting disease, so they put out many different theories, at this point the scientists are only guessing what causes and what to do about vCDJ
=========================================================
ttp://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/25/national/25WARN.html

December 25, 2003

Expert Warned That Mad Cow Was Imminent
By SANDRA BLAKESLEE

ver since he identified the bizarre brain-destroying proteins that cause mad cow
disease, Dr. Stanley Prusiner, a neurologist at the University of California at
San Francisco, has worried about whether the meat supply in America is safe.

He spoke over the years of the need to increase testing and safety measures.
Then in May, a case of mad cow disease appeared in Canada, and he quickly sought
a meeting with Ann M. Veneman, the secretary of agriculture. He was rebuffed, he
said in an interview yesterday, until he ran into Karl Rove, senior adviser to
President Bush.

So six weeks ago, Dr. Prusiner, who won the 1997 Nobel Prize in Medicine for his
work on prions, entered Ms. Veneman's office with a message. "I went to tell her
that what happened in Canada was going to happen in the United States," Dr.
Prusiner said. "I told her it was just a matter of time."

The department had been willfully blind to the threat, he said. The only reason
mad cow disease had not been found here, he said, is that the department's
animal inspection agency was testing too few animals. Once more cows are tested,
he added, "we'll be able to understand the magnitude of our problem."

This nation should immediately start testing every cow that shows signs of
illness and eventually every single cow upon slaughter, he said he told Ms.
Veneman. Japan has such a program and is finding the disease in young
asymptomatic animals.

Fast, accurate and inexpensive tests are available, Dr. Prusiner said, including
one that he has patented through his university.

Ms. Veneman's response (he said she did not share his sense of urgency) left him
frustrated. That frustration soared this week after a cow in Washington State
was tentatively found to have the disease. If the nation had increased testing
and inspections, meat from that cow might never have entered the food chain, he
said.

Ms. Veneman was not available for interviews yesterday, and the White House
referred all questions to the department. A spokeswoman for Ms. Veneman, Julie
Quick, said: "We have met with many experts in this area, including Dr. Prusiner.
We welcome as much scientific input and insight as we can get on this very
important issue. We want to make sure that our actions are based on the best
available science."

In Dr. Prusiner's view, Ms. Veneman is getting poor scientific advice. "U.S.D.A.
scientists and veterinarians, who grew up learning about viruses, have
difficulty comprehending the novel concepts of prion biology," he said. "They
treat the disease as if it were an infection that you can contain by
quarantining animals on farms. It's as though my work of the last 20 years did
not exist."

Newer tests, by a variety of companies, are more sensitive, cheaper and faster.
Dr. Prusiner said that his test could even detect extremely small amounts of
infectious prion in very young animals with no symptoms. Sold by InPro
Biotechnology in South San Francisco, a single testing operation could process 8,000
samples in 24 hours, he said.

British health officials will start using the test in February, Dr. Prusiner
said. If adopted in this country, it would raise the price of a pound of meat by
two to three cents, he said.

"We want to keep prions out of the mouths of humans," Dr. Prusiner said. "We don't
know what they might be doing to us."

His laboratory is working on promising treatments for the human form of mad cow
disease but preventing its spread is just as important, he said. "Science is
capable of finding out how serious the problem is," he said, "but only
government can mandate the solutions."

Copyright 2003 The New York Times

*IF* the numbers of infected people from "mad cow disease" are true, it is still much more likely that we will die from a car wreck than mad cow disease.

From what I read Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease has an unusually long incubation period (measured in years) so it is unlikely she contracted it from the recent events.

[url]http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/cjd/cjd_fact_sheet.htm[/url]

Edited to add link to CDC

we also just recently had our first confermed case of "mad cow desease" found in a dairy cow in washington state.

Nor is it short in cattle. 5-6 years on avg so who knows...

FWIW, variant CJD, or human madcow, seems to have a potentially much shorter incubation period than CJD, though, in fact, they may well be the same prion.

Just for the record...the prions in "traditional" CJD and BSE are not the same.  There is evidence linking a new CJD variant and the mad cow incidents; however, without proper testing it is irresponsible to assume that this was a mad cow derived illness.  I don't want to down play the possible cross over of BSE prions and the new strain of CJD.  We do need to make that hysteria and fear are not being fed by misdiagnosing one type of prion related illness with another.

Again, there is no firm evidence for this statement to my knowledge. Perhaps I missed it in the previous thread on this but if you have a link, or better yet links, to scientific articles which support this assertion I would be interested.



That would be correct. Thus my questions concerning lifestyle and travel, etc.



Agree on the esoteric point you make but consumers have reason to be concerned, very concerned. Even if the risk of infection [i]remains[/i] low the outcome for someone infected is well known. It is 100% fatal.

Further, it makes little or no difference in the long run whether or not there is a difference in the 2 prions. From a standpoint of prognosis the outcome is the same, prevention is the same and at this point treatment is the same(nonexistent).

I don't have the refernce here now (its at work), but it was the 1996 article in Nature.  They determine through western blotting assays that the new CJD variant and BSE were very similar...much more than the traditional CJD.

I disagree with you.  It does matter if this is a traditional CJD prion versus new CJD variant.  While death is the result in both, the traditional CJD can be chalked up to the traditional occurance of CJD.  If it is the new variant there is the obvious concern that it COULD be a BSE prions that have crossed over.  As such the implications on the beef industry would be unbelievable.

I am trying to fight the chicken little mentality that I can see starting to build.  Is there reason to be concerned? probably so.  But there is a big differnce betwene concern and blind fear.  We shouldn't start going off the deep end before we know all of the facts.  With this specific case of CJD , I have concerns that some over zelous talking head at the local media outlet will see a big news story and chacterize this incorrectly as a cross over case of CJD when it could be due to traditional CJD.


As with any given health concern you can react with any given spectrum of precautions.  A couple of months ago people were afraid to open their mail b/c of the risk of anthrax...I saw people in Wal-MArt with dust mask on.  That sort fo reaction IMHO is silly.  You can assume the worse possible scenario; or you can look at a risk assesment and decide the level of precautions you'd like to take.  At this point we have a single case of confirmed BSE.  Given the nature of the prion related illnesses, it is prudent to limit exposure to meats that containg much lower levels of prions (muscle) and it is probably a good idea to keep an eye on whats going  on with the staus of new cases in the US.  

I am not saying that there is nothing to worry about, I don't want that on my head.  But I'd urge people to not let their fear of the unknown needlessly alter their lifestyles.  There are always going to be people out there claiming that the sky is falling.  With this outbreak the news outlets have been looking for every possible gloom and doom scientist to put on television (it makes for really good rating to pander to peoples fears).  Just listen to many sources and don't adopt a worse case scenario mentality based on the opinions of a few people.  

[url]http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/cjd/bse_cjd_qa.htm[/url]

This stuff won't turn folks into zombies will it? [:)]

Certainly, I agree that individuals should educate themselves and make their own informed lifestyle decisions for themselves and their families. I made them for myself and mine over a month ago. Some changes we made well over a decade ago.

Care to elaborate on any of them?

See the "Breaking: Madcow Disease in WA" thread.

I am at work and we're very busy today. Will try to get a link later, or try to get the mods to take my posts as well as sloth's and set up a new thread.

No it doesn't.....

And from what I've read and heard, therein lies the problem - since the cow fails to present symptoms, it isn't tested, and it is processed as a healthy cow ... even if it is infected - and that means we don't know how many were already placed into the chain that were infected.

Whereas testing each cow as it's slaughtered, would keep the infected ones out of the food chain.

Correct?

More bullshit.. cows don't even produce milk til the first calving, usually two years old. Average useable lifespan after that is at least five years, or the dairy farmer goes broke by not being able to payoff his investment. I know many herds that have 35-50% of the herd over 10 years old.  FYI the cow here in Wa was only four years old.  I am willing to bet it's an import from canada two years ago before she matured.

Even symptomatic cows are processed. That is the lunacy of this situation.

Testing isn't perfect. Any test will have false negs and false pos depending on how sensitive you want the test vs how specific. It would be highly effective, however, if it is a good test.

Another concern is the sanitation of the slaughterhouse, yards, etc. Definite risk of cross contamination.
I used to work in a virology lab where we worked with specimens for prion testing. WE were all scared to death of these specimens as we were all aware of how difficult it was to destroy prions.

What needs to happen is that there needs to be a complete and total moratorium on use of animals for animal feed. Period. This needs to happen NOW. It will not, however. The economics of this will dictate otherwise but the cost will be far, far greater in the future. Short sightedness is likely to win out again.

That very thing happened in 1998 here in the US. now there is no bone meal available to use as cheap protein.  For bovine food, there is no legal animal recycled feed in the us.  In canada, however, it's still available.  I think chicken feed still might have meal in it, but not cow feed anymore.  the problem is mexico, with virtually no standards and far cheaper prices that look appealing to some consumers..

I am aware of restrictions on feed and their length of duration. Do you think they are adhered to?
This has led to a false sense of security in the american cattle industry. I am not at all surprised that madcow has shown up here. Further, there should have been more pressure on our neighbors to the north and south to adhere to common sense precautions.

What about other animals? Deer? Elk?
Are you certain that this wasn't transmitted to the american herd via these species indirectly? What do you think Game Farms are going to feed their wild herds? My guess is it is whatever is cheapest.
The use of feed from animals needs to be stopped. I don't care what species it is that is being fed.

The whole scare is started over a DAIRY cow. that's where i was going..

you might be suprised where most of the hamburger in this country comes from..

[url]http://www.cjonline.com/stories/122603/kan_badbeef.shtml[/url]

I feel even better for not eating red meat for the past 3 years.

I know it can incubate, but my chances of not getting it are far better!

it really is only applicable to hamburger.  You can't get it fom steaks, there's no brain or spinal cord in steaks.  Under older processes, virtually everything that isn't solid goes into hamburger.  Thats why the only burgers I eat are the ones I killed and watched get processed.

Oh yeah?
Thats right! I heard you were one of the most active and respected members there. You must have a lot in common with those types for them to like you so much!

I'mma post a few articles for ya'll to mull over.

US Laws Still Allow Beef
Blood In Feed
By Mark Sherman
Associated Press Writer
12-25-03


(Excerpted from longer article)
 
"...the government came under criticism on two fronts. John Stauber, the author of "Mad Cow U.S.A.," said the U.S. hasn't done enough to keep BSE out of the country.
 
Cattle get sick by eating feed that contains tissue from the brain and spine of infected animals. The United States has banned such feed since 1997.
 
"Here's the problem, the feed ban has been grossly violated by feed mills," Stauber said in a telephone interview from his home in Madison, Wis.
 
In one such case, X-Cel Feeds Inc., of Tacoma, Wash., admitted in a consent decree in July that it violated FDA regulations designed to prevent the possible spread of the disease.
 
Agriculture officials said that only two out of some 1,800 firms are not in compliance with the ban, a significant improvement since 1997.
 
Stauber also said he believes the ban is ineffective because it exempts blood from cattle, which Stauber said could transmit mad-cow type diseases. Government officials and industry executives have said there is no evidence that animals can be infected from the blood of other animals.

'Mad Cow' Proteins Form
In Muscle As Well As Brain
By Merritt McKinney
3-19-2

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - The abnormal proteins linked to "mad cow" disease and other brain-wasting illnesses can form in muscle much more easily than previously thought, new research suggests.
 
The accumulation of these proteins, known as prions, has been thought to be concentrated mainly in the central nervous system and lymphatic tissues, but California researchers have demonstrated that high levels of prions can form in muscles throughout the body.
 
The report suggests that current strategies aimed at protecting the food supply, which include taking precautions to ensure that meat does not contain any neurological or lymphatic tissues, may not be adequate for reducing the risk of prion diseases. However, the study's authors caution that the results are preliminary, and it is too soon to know whether prions naturally form in the muscle of animals infected with brain-wasting diseases.
 
Mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), is one of several fatal brain-wasting diseases thought to be caused by the build-up of prions in the brain. In 1996, a new form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), a human brain-wasting disease, was reported in young adults in the UK. There is strong evidence that this new type of CJD arose when people ate meat from cows infected with BSE.
 
Since the discovery of the apparent link between mad cow and the new type of CJD, there has been a push to exclude meat from prion-infected animals from the food supply. Besides slaughtering herds of infected cattle, this strategy has included banning brains, spinal cord and certain other tissues from meat products.
 
Now, Dr. Stanley B. Prusiner and colleagues from the University of California at San Francisco report that, in mice at least, high levels of prions can accumulate in muscles, too.
 
Prusiner and his colleagues injected brain tissue from prion-infected mice and hamsters into the muscles of uninfected mice. The researchers found that these injected prions were able to reproduce extensively in muscle. This accumulation of the abnormal proteins varied widely from muscle to muscle, with muscles in the hind legs having the highest levels.
 
A report on the findings appears in the March 19th issue of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
 
The research demonstrates that skeletal muscle in mice is "intrinsically capable" of forming high levels of the abnormal proteins, Prusiner and his colleagues conclude. The fact that high levels of prions may accumulate in muscle even when neural and lymphatic tissue is excluded "raises the concern that humans consuming meat from prion-infected animals are at risk for acquiring infection," according to the authors.
 
But the risk of contracting a prion disease by eating meat is still uncertain, Prusiner and his colleagues note. They point out that the accumulation of prions may vary from species to species and from disease to disease. Also, compared to being injected with infected tissue, it is much more difficult to become infected with prions by eating infected tissue, they note. The researchers also point out that not all types of prions can move from species to species, so the risk to people is uncertain.
 
The study challenges the conventional thinking on where prions accumulate in the body, Dr. Giuseppe Legname, who is a co-author of the study, told Reuters Health in an interview. "We thought that they were only accumulating in the nervous system and lymphatic system," he said.
 
The formation of prions in muscle could have larger implications, according to Legname. He stressed, however, that the study was conducted in laboratory mice, so it does not prove that prions can form in the muscles of other animals. To find this out, researchers will have to perform similar experiments in other species, he said.
 
People should not panic about the results, Legname explained. There is "no reason to worry yet," he said. Still, he added, "We need to be aware that there might be a possibility" that prions could be present in the muscles of other animals.
 
The findings may have a silver lining. If significant numbers of prions do accumulate in muscle, than it would be easier to diagnose prion diseases by analyzing a small sample of muscle tissue, the investigators note.
 
SOURCE: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 2002;99:3812-
 
Copyright © 2002 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.  

Here is a list of products made from cows.

http://www.rense.com/general6/cow.htm

The stories are all out there, don't you read Drudge?

Check this page on RENSE.COM, HUNDREDS OF LINKS.

[url]http://www.rense.com/health/CJD-CWD-BSE.htm[/url]

IF this gets as bad as it can potentially get...guess who will wind up bailing out the this industry?...The U.S Taxpayer is going to get it right in the [sex]