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Posted: 10/29/2004 5:02:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:05:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2004 5:07:42 PM EST by TacticalMan]
You can tell that was written by an idiot who knows nothing of the capabilities of either sporting ammunition or lawyers!
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:07:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:07:41 PM EST
Uh he never did vote to ban pump action shotguns.

That much is true.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:11:39 PM EST
Yes he did, if they had a faux 'pistol grip'. "The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip." according to the bill. That includes nearly all shotguns.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:12:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jon_C_:
Yes he did, if they had a faux 'pistol grip'. "The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip." according to the bill. That includes nearly all shotguns.





The bill he voted for applies to SEMI AUTO shotguns only unless they have a cylinder.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:13:48 PM EST
He is a gun-grabber.

Why bicker with the details
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:14:35 PM EST
Kerry's voting record speaks for itself. He has supported every anti-gun measure to come before the Senate.

Incrimental bans are still bans...Kerry is anti-gun.

Capitol Hill Blue is a Left wing rag sheet.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:15:12 PM EST
I know.

Just read that crap.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:17:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:18:50 PM EST
Whew,
Well now I can vote Kerry.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:24:07 PM EST
Gentlemen, I present the dumbass quote of the day:

Kerry: Well, personally I would support a tax on bullets. There is no reason in the world for these particular- these dum-dum bullets to be sold . They're people-killers, and there is absolutely- they're not duck-killers, they're not deer-killers, they're not used in hunting.
Yeah, soft points are not used for deer hunting...

Hoppy8420
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:27:51 PM EST
I have came to understand that expecting the gun-grabbers to know the first thing about guns is much like expecting the average arfcommer (sgtar15 excluded) to give an on-demand dissertation on the evolution of women's shoes in post-occupation poland, with specific emphasis on the role of the demand for leather in men's work boots in shaping women's acceptance of alternative materials as they became available.


Or something like that.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:29:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:44:11 PM EST
He is a damn gun grabber. Period
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:52:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Actually, the ammo ban would have taken care of just about all Shotguns, except may 16 and 20 gauge. .410 and 12GA have been in military use on and off for years.



would it be ammo the US uses or the world military? if the world then .22's would be gone too
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:31:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 6:32:51 AM EST by Tango7]
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, here it is.

(From thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r108:4:./temp/~r108fHFaIi:e0:



SA 2619. Mr. KENNEDY submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 1805, to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages resulting from the misuse of their products by others; as follows:

On page 11, after line 19, add the following:

SEC. 5. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or

``(iv) a projectile for a centerfire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

(b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

``(2) The standards promulgated pursuant to paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or centerfire rifle from which the projectile is fired and the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile.

``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''



So basically, while the rifle cartridges being sold as A/P would become illegal (they already are in a bunch of states, such as IL), any cartridge that will fit in an XP100, or T/C Contender could be banned, based on the "interpretation" that is is an A/P handgun round, if I read this correctly.

Kerry voted in favor of this amendment, included in S.1805 on 3/2/2004. Therefore, Kerry did vote to ban centerfire ammo.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:56:14 AM EST

He is a gun-grabber.

Why bicker with the details



+1
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:06:38 AM EST
He is a gun-grabber.

Why bicker with the details


+2
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:14:59 AM EST

There's a clear division between Kerry and Bush on the issue of guns. Kerry co-sponsored an legislation that would not only have extended the old assault-weapon ban that expired Oct. 1, but would also have expanded it to cover more weapons.


Very careful fact checking in this article
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:15:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By pv74:
He is a gun-grabber.

Why bicker with the details


+2



+3
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:33:32 AM EST
All you need to know...

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:36:52 AM EST
actually what sKerry did was vote for an amendment to a bill that the Bradites wanted out of play

They knew something so all encompassing would kill the Gun Manufacturers Liability Bill

Check out this Clinton Quote from this week:


He said the junior Bush -- 'a genuine West Texas ultraconservative' -- had been all but put into office by the National Rifle Association in the 2000 election that saw Clinton's vice president winning the popular vote but losing a contested battle that went all the way to the Supreme Court. 'The NRA damaged Al [Gore] so badly in Arkansas,' Clinton said of his home state. 'I don't think the NRA has gotten the praise it deserved for electing George Bush.


http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/041026/323/f5cwt.html

Have the democrats have withdrawn from the field on gun banning for now?

The issue is really a stinker for them
The research says it doen't affect crime
The mommies lost interest

If the democrats would take Orrin Hatches 1982 report to heart and follow the Constitution, the democrats could prolly regain a majority

-dZ
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:37:16 AM EST
He is till An Anti.ANd he still sucks and yes he is still going to lose.

Thank You!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:44:01 AM EST
Factcheck.org sent out a bulletin yesterday taking apart the NRA's claims against Kerry. The article is available here. The relevant text of the article is:

The ad starts off saying, "John Kerry says he’s a sportsman, so why did he vote to ban deer hunting ammunition . . .?" In fact, what Kerry voted for was an amendment sponsored by Sen. Ted Kennedy that would have covered rifle bullets capable of piercing soft body armor and also marketed as "armor-piercing," and wasn't aimed at hunting ammunition.

Kennedy described the intent of his amendment during Senate debate March 2, 2004:

Sen. Kennedy: My amendment will not apply to ammunition that is now routinely used in hunting rifles or other centerfire rifles. To the contrary, it only covers ammunition that is designed or marketed as having armor-piercing capability. That is it--designed or marketed as having armor-piercing capability, such as armor-piercing ammunition that is now advertised on the Hi-Vel Web site.


Kennedy's Amendment

SEC. 5. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section

921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or

``(iv) a projectile for a centerfire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability , that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''

-0-

(The term "body armor" is later defined to mean "body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.")

The NRA attacked Kennedy's amendment, claiming it would outlaw most rounds now used for deer hunting. The amendment did propose to expand a ban on armor-piercing ammunition for handguns to cover rifle ammunition as well, and it would have introduced a performance-based standard applying to rounds that "the Attorney General determines . . . to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber." (See box at left for full text of relevant portion of Kennedy's amendment.)

Sen. Larry Craig, an Idaho Republican, outlined the argument against a performance-based standard during Senate debate:

Sen Craig: The amendment's actual aim and effect would be to expand the definition of ``armor-piercing'' to include ammunition based, not on any threat to law enforcement officers, but on a manufacturer's marketing strategy. . . . The standards he establishes in his legislation, performance-based standards, ban what is currently on-the-shelf hunting ammunition. Does the hunting ammunition in a high-powered rifle have the ability to penetrate soft body armor? Yes, it does. . . .He says not.
. . .The fact is, virtually all hunting and target rifle ammunition is capable of penetrating soft body armor. That is a reality. So by his definition does that go off the market? I believe it does. That is why I think it is unnecessary.

Ignored both by Craig and the NRA, however, is the plain language of the amendment itself, which referred to ammunition that could penetrate body armor and is designed or sold as "armor piercing." Both conditions would have had to apply for the ammunition to fall under the proposed ban.

The Kennedy amendment was rejected 34-63, with only one Republican in favor of the measure and 13 Democrats against it.

--

Now before anyone goes off on Factcheck.org, they also took Moveon.org apart for their false ads about assault weapons. They also support GWB with the statement "But it is also a fact that Bush was publicly committed to sign an extension if Congress passed it, and it was Congress that failed to do so.". The relevant article is available at www.factcheck.org/article258.html.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:51:36 AM EST

KERRY DID NOT VOTE TO BAN CENTEFIRE AMMO!


Well, that changes everything... now I'm voting for Kerry!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:59:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 8:02:51 AM EST by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By Aardvark:



As pointed out byTango7


(3) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or



May be used in a handgun, handguns are already made in any conceivabel chambering, so that condition is already met.

and that the Attorney General determines, How quickly could a gun hating/grabbing/banning administration get a gun hating/grabbing/banning attorney general to "determine" that pretty much every centerfire rifle round is capable of penetrating body armor.

Under such a situation we might get to keep 30-30, 444, 45-70s and other such lower velocity blunt large frontal area cartridges, but anything with a spitzer and some velocity is gone.

John Kerry is quick to claim that his votes for or against something weren't really such votes instead they were some nuanced machination of what was being voted on, so it's easy to see and fair to say that by voting yes for the Kennedy amendment he was in his own style of voting casting a vote to ban most centerfire ammuntion.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:13:03 AM EST
i trust Neal Knox on this issue. Kerry voted to ban hunting ammo including 30-30 ammo. Just made that vote last Spring.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:14:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 8:16:04 AM EST by shootemup]
Did anyone read this from sKerry's website:


sportsmans bill of rights
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:27:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 8:29:24 AM EST by madmedic]
Well...lets see...
Here's a scenario:

1) They pass a bill to ban all centerfire ammunition that is "designed, or marketed as being able to penetrate body armor"

2) Down the road...Diane Frankenstein stands before her colleagues and says:

"Studies by the VPC have found that ALL centerfire rifle ammunition--even if not marketed as such--is capable of defeating standard issue police body armor.
They have also found...that 9 out of 10 police officers who are killed with a firearm, have been shot with ammunition that is NOT marketed as armor piercing.
The ammunition manufacturers have used a loop hole, to get these deadly bullets on the streets, and playgrounds...by deliberately NOT marketing them as "armor piercing".
I propose an amendment to bill number xxxxx, that would strike the language that limits the ban to only those bullets MARKETED as armor piercing.
It is vital to the safety of our children that we get all rifle ammunition off the streets".
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:35:39 AM EST
He's a communist twinkle-toed cocksucker. He plays tonsil hockey with Edwards.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:38:25 AM EST
Kerry: "I think you ought to tax gun sales....I think you ought to tax ammunition sales"


Some of you guys just don't get it and I'm getting sick of it. We Republicans are our own worst enemies.


Go ahead...vote for Kerry.....and prepare to give your guns to the UN, fella!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:41:26 AM EST
Do your research next time:

Some FACTS to consider about Kerry the Traitor's 20 year Senate record:


FACT: Kerry the Traitor co-sponsors a bill that would ban all semi-automatic shotguns and detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifles, a gigantic step toward bringing Austrian-style gun control to the U.S. (Signed on as co-sponsor of S. 1431 on Nov.21, 2003)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor says, "I think you ought to tax all ammunition, personally, I think you ought to tax all guns." (CNN "Late Edition", Nov. 7, 1993)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted nine times in favor of banning semi-auto firearms. (Vote No. 24, March 2, 2004; Vote No. 295, August 25, 1994; Vote No. 294, August 25, 1994; Vote No. 293, August 25, 1994; Vote No. 375, Nov. 17, 1993; Vote No. 365, Nov. 9, 1993; Vote No. 133, June 28, 1990; Vote No. 103, May 23 1990; Vote No. 102, May 23 1990)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted for a Ted Kennedy amendment to ban most center-fire rifle ammunition, including the most common rounds used by hunters and target shooters. (Vote No. 28, March 2, 2004)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted to close off hundreds of thousands of acres of the California Mojave Desert to hunting. (Vote No. 87, April 12, 1994)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted to hold the highly regulated American firearms industry legally responsible for the illegal acts of criminals. (Vote No. 24, March 2, 2004; Vote No. 25, March 2, 2004 ("poison pill" amendmendts))

FACT: Kerry the Traitor was one of only 18 Senators to oppose the Firearms Owners' Protection Act, which ended alarming abuses being committed under the 1968 Gun Control Act. (Vote No. 142, July 9, 1985)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor was one of only 29 Senators to vote to prohibit gun manufacturers from discharging debts created by the reckless lawsuits filed by municipalities. (Vote No. 4, Feb. 2, 2000)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted to allow the BATF to conduct unlimited inspections of FFL holders.(Vote No. 140, July 9, 1985)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted to criminalize legal sales between private individuals at gun shows.(Vote No. 134, May 20, 1999; Vote No. 25, March 2, 2004)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted to impose penalties of a year in prison and a $10,000 fine on an adult if a juvenile steals a firearm from him, and then merely displays it in a public place. (Vote No. 118, May 14, 1999; Vote No. 224, July 22, 1998)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted to force many small firearms dealers out of business, which would have impacted both the availability and price of guns, particularly in rural areas. (Vote No. 227, July 30, 1993)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor has voted 11 times to force law-abiding citizens to wait to exercise their Second Amendment rights. He voted to keep the federal waiting period after the National Instant Check system was in place. (Vote No. 141, July 9, 1985; Vote No. 115, June 28, 1991, Vote No. 113, June 28, 1991; Vote No. 278, Nov. 27, 1991; Vote No. 53, Mar. 19, 1992; Vote No. 262, Oct. 2, 1992; Vote No. 385, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 386, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 387, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 390, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 394, Nov. 20, 1993)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor voted twice to eliminate the Civilian Marksmanship Program.(Vote No. 325, Oct 12. 1993; Vote No. 178, June 27, 1996)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor wants to silence gun owners' voices. When NRA sought the same exemption from campaign finance rules that news organizations have, Kerry the Traitor call that effort "hijacking America's airwaves." (Vote No. 64, April 2, 2001; "Kerry the Traitor asks FEC to Block NRA Channel," AP, Dec 9, 2003.)

FACT: Kerry the Traitor commended the Million Mom March for their march on Washington that included calls for gun owner licensing, gun registration and other restrictions on law-abiding gun owners. (Vote No. 104, May 17, 2000)

FACT: If elected president, Kerry the Traitor will pack the U.S. Supreme Court with Diane Feinstein/Chuck Schumer/Ted Kennedy-selected anti-gun activists who believe you have no right to own any firearm.


DEFEND FIRARMS
DEFEAT Kerry the Traitor
VOTE NOVEMBER 2
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:41:59 AM EST
Kerry on the Senate Floor, 3-2-2004

http://thomas.loc.gov/r108/r108d02mr4.html

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Under the previous order, the time from 11:15 a.m. to 11:25 a.m. is under the control of the Democratic leader or his designee.

___Mr. REID. Mr. President, I yield 6 minutes to the Senator from Massachusetts, Mr. Kerry.

___The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Massachusetts.

___Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, the issue before the Senate today can really be summed up in one word: Responsibility. I first started hunting with my cousins when I was a kid, and I still enjoy hunting today. I believe strongly in the second amendment. I believe in the right to bear arms as it has been interpreted in our country.

___But I also believe that with our rights come fundamental, commonsense responsibilities. The right to bear arms is a right that should be protected for law-abiding Americans who want to protect themselves and their families.

___There is, however, no right to place military -style assault weapons into the hands of terrorists and/or criminals who wish to cause American families harm. There is no right to have access to the weapons of war in the streets of America. For those who want to wield those weapons, we have a place for them. It is the U.S. military . And we welcome them.

___If we do not act today to continue the ban on these deadly weapons, then our families in America, our police officers in America, are more threatened than they ought to be. For 10 years, the assault weapons ban has stopped fugitives, rapists, and murderers from purchasing weapons such as AK-47s. And for 10 years, not one honest, responsible American has had their guns taken away because of this law.

___It is interesting that a few months ago I was actually hunting in Iowa with the sheriff and with some of his deputies. As we walked through a field with the dogs, hunting pheasant, he pointed out a house in back of me, a house they had raided only a few weeks earlier, where meth and crack were being sold. On the morning when they went in to arrest this alleged criminal, there was an assault weapon on the floor lying beside that individual.

___That sheriff and others across this country do not believe we should be selling these weapons or allowing them to be more easily available to criminals in our country. That is why gun owners across America support renewing the assault weapons ban. They support also closing the gun show loophole so that gun shows can continue uninterrupted without being magnets for criminals and/or terrorists who try to get around the law.

___If there is a gun show loophole, a terrorist could simply go to one State, go into the gun show, buy a gun without the kind of ground check normal in the process, leave that gun show, travel to another State, and engage in either criminal or terrorist activity or both.

___Let's be honest about what we are facing today. The opposition to this commonsense gun safety law is being driven by the powerful NRA special interest leadership and by lobbyists in Washington. I don't believe this is the voice of responsible gun owners across America.

___Gun owners in America want to defend their families, and I believe the NRA leadership is defending the indefensible. There is a gap between America's ``Field & Stream'' gun owners and the NRA's ``Soldier of Fortune'' leaders.

___When he ran for President in 2000, President Bush promised the American people he would work to renew the assault weapons ban. But now, under pressure, he is walking away from that commitment, as he has from so many other promises--from education, to the environment, to the economy. This President says he will sign this giveaway to the gun industry, but he is refusing to sign the assault weapons ban he told America he would support.

___I believe gun owners have a responsibility, and so does the President of the United States--a responsibility to keep his word, a responsibility to do what he says he will do, a responsibility to protect Americans from danger, and to provide for the common defense.

___There is a reason every major law enforcement and police group in America supports this ban. They know no police officer should ever have to face the prospect of being outgunned by the military-style assault weapons. No American citizen should have to live in fear of being gunned down by snipers, gang members, or even terrorists who wield assault weapons.

___The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator's time has expired.

___Mr. REID. Mr. President, is there any time left on our side?

___The PRESIDING OFFICER. Four minutes.

___Mr. REID. Mr. President, I yield the remaining time to the Senator from Massachusetts.

___Mr. KERRY. I thank the distinguished leader.

___President Bush needs to tell America's police officers why he is not standing on their side.

___Today George Bush will celebrate the anniversary of the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, and I am glad the President joined us in that effort. But it will take more than a big, new bureaucracy to make America safer. Today airport screeners are being cut, air marshals are not getting trained, fire departments only have enough radios for about 50 percent of the firefighters, and almost two-thirds of our firehouses are shortchanged. The COPS funds have been eliminated in order to fund the President's tax cuts for the wealthiest few. By taking cops off our streets with one hand, and allowing military-style assault weapons back on them with the other, this President is jeopardizing the safety of our communities. It is wrong to do so, to pay for more tax breaks for billionaires and pay back more favors to a special interest lobbying group.

___Let me just say one word quickly about the overall issue of liability itself. I am not for, and I do not think any reasonable person is for, a gun manufacturer being held liable for a murder that takes place in the life of America, unfortunately too often. But what we do know is about 1.2 percent or so of gun dealers and wholesalers are responsible for about 57 percent of the weapons that wind up in the hands of criminals. There are many ``straw'' transactions that take place in situations where manufacturers know who the problem dealers are.

___To not have a wanton-and-reckless-conduct standard for liability is to avoid responsibility; it is to allow people to look the other way, as they have in the past, when we demand responsible actions in the communities of America.

___I believe American gun owners are right to act responsibly and to live by common sense, and I am proud to stand with those gun owners today. I hope President Bush, the NRA leadership, and other lobby groups will reverse course and join the millions of Americans who know gun rights and gun responsibilities are mainstream American values, and that is what we should vote for in the Senate.

___I thank the leader for the extra time.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:23:57 AM EST
capitol hill blue= worst duh site ever.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:40:10 AM EST
That writer is a tool.

Actually anything thats not FMJ is really nonstandard ammo. Think about it. The second amendment does not say "the people have the right to keep and bear arms for hunting and sporting reasons." the meaning of the second amendment was to protect the rights of the people to rise up and replace a Bullshit government. It was intended to protect all guns, but most importantly those most suitable for use by the milita. So ammo than you would think would be FMJ military ammo. That would be standard ammo. Hunting and match ammo are specialty ammos, and while not spesificly designed to rip through a vest, their design based on intended use will defeat any body armor that any LEO is going to be wearing.

True AP ammo for a rifle is already heavily regulated or outlawed. No matter what, the man voted to ban ammo in one way or another, So the writer of the artical needs to STFU and actually understand what happened. And lopok how vague that shit is, any ammo the Atty General decides is AP is AP no other oversight at all. So an overzelous anti-gun AG working for a fuckstick president as sKerry would be could just say, any rifle ammo that can penetrate a bullet proof vest is considered AP and is now illegal to own, sell or posses. Hmmmm..........
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:54:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:
That writer is a tool.

Actually anything thats not FMJ is really nonstandard ammo. Think about it. The second amendment does not say "the people have the right to keep and bear arms for hunting and sporting reasons." the meaning of the second amendment was to protect the rights of the people to rise up and replace a Bullshit government. It was intended to protect all guns, but most importantly those most suitable for use by the milita. So ammo than you would think would be FMJ military ammo. That would be standard ammo. Hunting and match ammo are specialty ammos, and while not spesificly designed to rip through a vest, their design based on intended use will defeat any body armor that any LEO is going to be wearing.



what is the difference between "match" ammo and fmj?

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:52:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 4:53:39 PM EST by legalese77]
Kerry on Guns

Warning, link to large image
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:02:27 PM EST
Who fucking cares???


Kerry is a fucking, god damn Hanoi Jane TRAITOR and should be at least, in JAIL!!!!

He is nothing more than a gun grabber .

PERIOD!!

He isn't fit to carry a bucket full of piss from ANY vetran's bladder!!!!

But, because of the American sheeple have no brains, they follow this pied piper of bullshit.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:06:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 5:13:57 PM EST by Cato556]
Yes he did.

Amendment that would ban all centerfire rifle ammo and most pistol ammo (first one, introduced by Sen. Ted Kennedy):

SA 2619. Mr. KENNEDY submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 1805, to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages resulting from the misuse of their products by others; as follows:

On page 11, after line 19, add the following:

SEC. 5. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or

``(iv) a projectile for a centerfire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

(b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

``(2) The standards promulgated pursuant to paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or centerfire rifle from which the projectile is fired and the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile.

``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.

thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r108:4:./temp/~r108XboiXi:e0:

John Kerry voted for it:

www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00028

In reference to the last line in the amendment, to quote the Department of Justice (in a writing signed by the CURRENT Atorney General):

"Type I body armor is light. This is the minimum level of protection every officer should have,
and the armor should be routinely worn at all times while on duty."

Here is that report:

www.nlectc.org/txtfiles/selectapp2001.html

Also, don't be fooled by the "may be used in a handgun" part; it applies to rifle cartridges as well because of handguns like this:

www.tcarms.com/encpistol/index.php

Here are some of the cartridges that would be banned due to this pistol alone:

www.tcarms.com/encpistol/caliber.php
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:18:53 PM EST
.... just a ploy so he can try and salvage some of the "Sportsmen" vote. Total BS. He wants to ban all firearms and ammunition and will. There is no such thing as a "dear rifle" or "military style rifle" by classification. It is a wedge libs are trying to drive between "Sportsmen" and "Militia-men" such as ourselves.

They will first try to ban our "military style ammo", then our "military style rifles".

Fuck the Johns and anyone who votes for them.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:19:35 PM EST
Ummmmm, we all know that some people at gunshows market 855 as "armor-piercing", and excerpts from the ammo oracle would be useful in the hands of a slick lawyer like Edwards.


M193 and M855 at anything greater than 2200 fps will generally defeat all body armor up to and including Type IIIA


Besides, how does any one website change the fact that he is a giant douche? (Or was that turd-burger, I forget)
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:28:32 PM EST
I think everyone here is preaching to the choir

Less arguing and get the fuck out there and persuade your friends to vote. I'm in Il. and I'm still doing shit!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:16:59 PM EST
I heard that Kerry actually voted for it before he voted against it.

Armin
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:53:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Armin_Tanzarian:
I heard that Kerry actually voted for it before he voted against it.

Armin



No it's an antigun thing therefore he voted for it before he voted for it then he voted for it again.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:03:00 PM EST
Egad. Who the fuck cares? sKerry is clearly an anti-gun fanatic that makes Comrade Klinton look like an NRA Lifer. Starting a thread like this is a total waste of bandwidth and disk space.

Whose day was it to keep the DU imbeciles out of here anyway?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:37:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:
Kerry on Guns

Warning, link to large image



That says enough, right there. Kerry is in no way, shape, or form a politician for gun-owners or sportsmen. Kerry might as well be sleeping with Sarah Brady and Janet Reno, with Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer cracking the whip.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 6:39:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By XJ:

Besides, how does any one website change the fact that he is a giant douche? (Or was that turd-burger, I forget)



i thought it was a turd sandwich?

Link Posted: 10/31/2004 6:48:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
All you need to know...





This fking picture gets me as pissed as seeing sKerry, Feinswine, the Swimmer, and Schumer in the same pic....


Grrrr


- BG
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 6:50:23 AM EST
He is a front boy for the Kennedys, all their family members are too dead or drunk to run for president.
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