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Posted: 9/13/2014 2:44:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2014 2:47:19 PM EST by zealgroup]
Researchers on killings by otherwise law-abiding people - whether soldiers, police or civilians - have found the aftershocks can include conflicting emotions: elation at surviving, and guilt at having to violate an ingrained aversion against killing another human.



http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/experts_the_psychological_afte.html




Don't think I would have a problem nut I would seek help!

I do know it is an old article..
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:45:48 PM EST
I wonder what the pschological aftermath of being dead is.

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Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:51:07 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gitarmac:
I wonder what the pschological aftermath of being dead is.

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FPNI.

I am afraid you will begin to see even more "research" which is anti gun and mixed with psychology .
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:53:21 PM EST
GD tough guys arrived yet?
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:54:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hyperjoe:
I am afraid you will begin to see even more "research" which is anti gun and mixed with psychology .
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Yup. Can't have a gun for self defense, because self defense could hurt you psychologically. It's for your own good and all that stuff
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:56:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2014 2:56:48 PM EST by Recusance]
They are correct.

However, being stabbed, shot or crippled or raped can also have profound psychological effects as well.

I'll deal with the burden of having killed someone bent on doing me harm any day of the week.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:57:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gitarmac:
I wonder what the pschological aftermath of being dead is.

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Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:58:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GADeerHunter:
GD tough guys arrived yet?
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Yep, checking in......I'll cut the fuckers hart out & eat it afterwards
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:58:33 PM EST
Ayoob gives the best post shooting lecture...hands down.

All the possible effects are explained in detail.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:58:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GADeerHunter:
GD tough guys arrived yet?
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Not yet but the smug superiority crowd seems well represented.


To the OP: I honestly don't know how I'd react. Hope I never find out.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:59:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BigPapaColt:


Yep, checking in......I'll cut the fuckers hart out & eat it afterwards
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Originally Posted By BigPapaColt:
Originally Posted By GADeerHunter:
GD tough guys arrived yet?


Yep, checking in......I'll cut the fuckers hart out & eat it afterwards


Have you shot people in self defense?
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:59:44 PM EST
A decent person can have a hard time dealing with the fact hat he had to take another life? You don't fucking say?! As others have said, and should be obvious, it sure beats the alternative. That's the funny thing about being in that situation...there's only two choices.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:00:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2014 3:03:01 PM EST by WilliamGray]
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Originally Posted By hyperjoe:
FPNI.

I am afraid you will begin to see even more "research" which is anti gun and mixed with psychology .
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Originally Posted By hyperjoe:
Originally Posted By gitarmac:
I wonder what the pschological aftermath of being dead is.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
FPNI.

I am afraid you will begin to see even more "research" which is anti gun and mixed with psychology .


Umm. Pro-gun people have been saying this shit for a LONG time.

Read the book On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.
He spent a day with my brothers DPS Academy class talking about how hard it is to take someone's life, and how bad it would fuck them up afterwards.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:00:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Recusance:
They are correct.

However, being stabbed, shot or crippled or raped can also have profound psychological effects as well.

I'll deal with the burden of having killed someone bent on doing me harm any day of the week.
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Nailed it
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:01:07 PM EST
So, if you do ever have to shoot someone, you'll go crazy and they'll have to take your guns away


Sounds like anti gun propaganda to me
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:02:42 PM EST
If I was forced to kill someone, I think it would be difficult for me.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:04:04 PM EST
voted no. If I didn't look at the gore, I think I'd be alright.

I hope I never have to find out.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:04:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By glockftwbbq:
If I was forced to kill someone, I think it would be difficult for me.
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I would be more concerned about the psychological condition of someone that was not affected by it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:05:33 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GADeerHunter:
GD tough guys arrived yet?
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Present





Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:06:25 PM EST
You have to do what you have to do. If you can avoid a situation killing someone, it's better. If you are faced with a grave threat where someone is intent on mortally hurting you, you have no choice. You end up a dead in a wartime situation or the victim of a crime if you hesitate. If you ask someone the choice between worrying or being dead the answer will be obvious.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:06:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:


I would be more concerned about the psychological condition of someone that was not affected by it.
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By glockftwbbq:
If I was forced to kill someone, I think it would be difficult for me.


I would be more concerned about the psychological condition of someone that was not affected by it.


It is chilling. Did you ever hear the audio from the clean kill shot guy that executed the burglars in his house? I know, fuck thieves, but damn. That dude was cold. Makes you wonder what his background was.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:07:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:09:12 PM EST
No problem. It's easy to kill people that need killing.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:10:08 PM EST
How you are set up to deal with it matters most.

Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:11:12 PM EST
It must not be that important since our ingrained reflex to fight and survive overrides it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:13:10 PM EST
If I killed an innocent person then yes I would feel guilty. If someone decides to attempt to kill me and I win the confrontation then no, I would not feel guilty. The dead guy made the decision, not me, so the burden/guilt is on them. Just the way I see it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:14:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2014 3:17:10 PM EST by SinistralRifleman]
Feeling bad about killing someone that was trying to kill you is a modern invention.

Feeling bad about killing when it could have been avoided or killing an innocent would absolutely be normal.

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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:


Umm. Pro-gun people have been saying this shit for a LONG time.

Read the book On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.
He spent a day with my brothers DPS Academy class talking about how hard it is to take someone's life, and how bad it would fuck them up afterwards.
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By hyperjoe:
Originally Posted By gitarmac:
I wonder what the pschological aftermath of being dead is.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
FPNI.

I am afraid you will begin to see even more "research" which is anti gun and mixed with psychology .


Umm. Pro-gun people have been saying this shit for a LONG time.

Read the book On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.
He spent a day with my brothers DPS Academy class talking about how hard it is to take someone's life, and how bad it would fuck them up afterwards.


Grossman was antigun in the past and he's also for censorship in media.

Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:15:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By juan223:
Ayoob gives the best post shooting lecture...hands down.

All the possible effects are explained in detail.
View Quote


Agreed. The self defense legal class he gives is excellent. So.much information. I came away with 40 typed pages of notes from the class.

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Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:16:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2014 3:17:42 PM EST by WilliamGray]
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Originally Posted By skid2041:
It must not be that important since our ingrained reflex to fight and survive overrides it.
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There is an ingrained reflex to not kill other humans.
They have found muskets loaded to the muzzle from soldiers In the civil war that could not bring themselves to shoot someone else.

That's why there is always a guy with a blank in a firing squad. That way everyone can tell themselves they had the blank, or they pulled the dummy switch during any other execution.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:16:44 PM EST
Maybe they shouldn't coddle criminals, then people wouldn't be put in the position of shooting them.



Fwiw, I would not want to have to kill anyone either and go out of my way to avoid trouble. But then you see things like the Memphis mob riots (oh, you mean you haven't heard?) and what's a person suppossed to do.


Good on anyone who kills somebody before they have a chance to harm me.

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Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:17:26 PM EST
I might have problems with all the legal trauma afterwards, but I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep over defending my own life.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:18:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By skid2041:
It must not be that important since our ingrained reflex to fight and survive overrides it.
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more people are victims than fighters
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:18:07 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
No problem. It's easy to kill people that need killing.
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Everyone I know who's done it says the same.

If you believed you had to, or they needed/deserved it, you don't have an issue. (might still be tough for someone lacking the proper mindset or constitution).

I believe if you were forced to kill what amounts to an innocent person (human shield or similar) it could really mess with you. It would me, no matter how many times I told myself that I didn't have any other option.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:18:15 PM EST
I'd be too grateful to have survived the encounter.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:18:24 PM EST
Nope, wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

If I was put in a situation where the outcome had to be me defending me or my family then I would have no problem with it. I would honestly probably feel worse for the persons family then the person themselves.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:18:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GADeerHunter:
GD tough guys arrived yet?
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Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:19:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By B44T:
How you are set up to deal with it matters most.

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exactly, this is why quality training is important, know what the signs are so you can recognize them early on and realise that they are likely very short term.. LE and MIL have a built in 'support network' that will hopefully avert these things before they get started. But everyone is wired different...
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:19:58 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:

There is an ingrained reflex to not kill other humans.
They have found muskets loaded to the muzzle from soldiers In the civil war that could not bring themselves to shoot someone else.

That's why there is always a guy with a blank in a firing squad. That way everyone can tell themselves they had the blank, or they pulled the dummy switch during any other execution.
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By skid2041:
It must not be that important since our ingrained reflex to fight and survive overrides it.

There is an ingrained reflex to not kill other humans.
They have found muskets loaded to the muzzle from soldiers In the civil war that could not bring themselves to shoot someone else.

That's why there is always a guy with a blank in a firing squad. That way everyone can tell themselves they had the blank, or they pulled the dummy switch during any other execution.


I'm not saying it didn't happen. But I'm sure some were from guys forgetting to prime them.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:20:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By spin-drift:
If I killed an innocent person then yes I would feel guilty. If someone decides to attempt to kill me and I win the confrontation then no, I would not feel guilty. The dead guy made the decision, not me, so the burden/guilt is on them. Just the way I see it.
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how does this explain combat troops? these guys are not having nightmares about the pussy they missed out on stateside.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:20:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:

There is an ingrained reflex to not kill other humans.
They have found muskets loaded to the muzzle from soldiers In the civil war that could not bring themselves to shoot someone else.

That's why there is always a guy with a blank in a firing squad. That way everyone can tell themselves they had the blank, or they pulled the dummy switch during any other execution.
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By skid2041:
It must not be that important since our ingrained reflex to fight and survive overrides it.

There is an ingrained reflex to not kill other humans.
They have found muskets loaded to the muzzle from soldiers In the civil war that could not bring themselves to shoot someone else.

That's why there is always a guy with a blank in a firing squad. That way everyone can tell themselves they had the blank, or they pulled the dummy switch during any other execution.


I believe the blank thing is urban legend. Anyone who's fired a rifle knows the difference between a blank and live round.

For humans to have an ingrained reflex not to kill, we sure do one hell of a lot of it, all throughout history.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:20:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2014 3:22:34 PM EST by SirSqueeboo]
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Originally Posted By GADeerHunter:
GD tough guys arrived yet?
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What emotion would win out?

-Oh I took a life.
-Oh I will still be in my child/children's lives.

Ask any combat vet--it's a lot easier to kill in a me or them situation.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:21:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:


I'm not saying it didn't happen. But I'm sure some were from guys forgetting to prime them.
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Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By skid2041:
It must not be that important since our ingrained reflex to fight and survive overrides it.

There is an ingrained reflex to not kill other humans.
They have found muskets loaded to the muzzle from soldiers In the civil war that could not bring themselves to shoot someone else.

That's why there is always a guy with a blank in a firing squad. That way everyone can tell themselves they had the blank, or they pulled the dummy switch during any other execution.


I'm not saying it didn't happen. But I'm sure some were from guys forgetting to prime them.

So they loaded 10 more times?
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:22:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:


I'm not saying it didn't happen. But I'm sure some were from guys forgetting to prime them.
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Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By skid2041:
It must not be that important since our ingrained reflex to fight and survive overrides it.

There is an ingrained reflex to not kill other humans.
They have found muskets loaded to the muzzle from soldiers In the civil war that could not bring themselves to shoot someone else.

That's why there is always a guy with a blank in a firing squad. That way everyone can tell themselves they had the blank, or they pulled the dummy switch during any other execution.


I'm not saying it didn't happen. But I'm sure some were from guys forgetting to prime them.


I agree. More likely failing at their manual of arms under stress and in the era of black powder with noise smoke and confusion probably didn't realize they didn't fire.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:22:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By kpel308:
I had to shoot my dog, and I cried like a baby. I loved that animal, but I know I did the right thing, and made my peace with it. I don't think I'll have the least bit of trouble shooting someone who deserves it, if it's to save a life. I don't believe I'd have trouble sleeping afterwards, either. I like animals a hell of a lot more than I like people.
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I still feel guilt over not putting my Boykin Spaniel down sooner- there was some question as to what he had.

Someone breaking into my home or assaulting me on the street? Meh. Their choice, their problem.

At least that's my take, could be wrong.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:23:43 PM EST
I used to think that I wouldn't have an issue with it. Then I read some threads by members here who have used deadly force and it made me rethink my feelings on the subject. Don't get me wrong I will if I need to but I think it would affect me later
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:23:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:

So they loaded 10 more times?
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By skid2041:
It must not be that important since our ingrained reflex to fight and survive overrides it.

There is an ingrained reflex to not kill other humans.
They have found muskets loaded to the muzzle from soldiers In the civil war that could not bring themselves to shoot someone else.

That's why there is always a guy with a blank in a firing squad. That way everyone can tell themselves they had the blank, or they pulled the dummy switch during any other execution.


I'm not saying it didn't happen. But I'm sure some were from guys forgetting to prime them.

So they loaded 10 more times?


If they thought they primed and fired it but didn't, ya.

I'm not saying all, but I'm sure it happened.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:24:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:


I believe if you were forced to kill what amounts to an innocent person (human shield or similar) it could really mess with you. It would me, no matter how many times I told myself that I didn't have any other option.
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It depends. There are lots of cultural considerations that go into it.

If in the course of saving my own life, or that of a loved one, I accidentally killed a cute, blonde, pig-tailed 7 year old, that would mess with me.

But accidentally killing innocent foreigners in foreign lands, who don't look like me, isn't that big a deal. Go figure.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:24:33 PM EST
Well, the internet tough guys are here.

PTSD, what is it?
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:25:02 PM EST
I think I would react more to having to clean up the mess. I'm a huge blood and gore pansy.

Death doesn't affect me at all, it's natural and inevitable, and I'm often accused of being a heartless, cold robot man. I'm not, I just don't see any purpose in crying over it, it can't be undone.

If I shot at my attacker, and killed an innocent bystander, particularly a kid - even if absolved I don;t think I'd handle that very well.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:27:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By juan223:



exactly, this is why quality training is important, know what the signs are so you can recognize them early on and realise that they are likely very short term.. LE and MIL have a built in 'support network' that will hopefully avert these things before they get started. But everyone is wired different...
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Originally Posted By juan223:
Originally Posted By B44T:
How you are set up to deal with it matters most.




exactly, this is why quality training is important, know what the signs are so you can recognize them early on and realise that they are likely very short term.. LE and MIL have a built in 'support network' that will hopefully avert these things before they get started. But everyone is wired different...

You're right, I've been there. Be ready to have everybody around you point and say, that's the guy, he shot so and so, no matter whether it was right or not, you are never the same in their opinion again. The only one who was there , still surviving, in my case , is me , and I know the truth and I live with it
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:28:22 PM EST
"Otherwise law abiding"

??????

Self defense IS law abiding
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