I know, but your talking about sending it to the ATF, who could care less about your rights to anything "assault" rifle...whether or not is was imported.



 

More discussion by Rush

YEAH!

He's doing a good job of it too.



 

So there is nothing that we can do about this? Everyone here is just scrambling to buy as much as they can before it's banned?

Buy more.

Also call your Congressmen and submit a comment to the BATFE (yeah, I know, they don't care. It will help us in Congress and the Courts).

We can do exactly the same thing we did in early 2013. Blow up phones & faxes. Fill mailboxes.

We're showing the ATF that they can't sneak this shit under the radar and we're getting our congresscritters on it. It's becoming a national thing.

Oh yeah.. really laying out the political/underhanded FBHO aspects behind the ATF's action.  That will piss off a lot of people that aren't even gun people... maybe even Fudds.

Article on Drudge today highlighted in red:

Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2560750

This is finally going nation wide. GOOD.

 

If you guys thought the panic buying was bad before...

this

 

He did a good job there of telling that caller saying "they can't ban ammo" that he's wrong.  That caller apparently hasn't heard about 7N6.

It use to be mostly just people active on gun related sites that were buying up M855.  The vast majority of shooters remained oblivious.

Now pretty much every person with an a 5.56 weapon is going to be looking to buy M855 (whether they even know what it is or not).

  Buy it and send the seller a Bag O' Dicks, courtesy of SKD for payment

I tried to send the ATF my comments via that SAVEM855.COM web site but it refuses to accept it.  The page keeps screaming I need to put my name and address in the message regardless of how many times I put my name and address in the message.

Is there another way I can send my comments to the ATF?  It probably won't do anything, but at least I can say I did something.

Selling on Gunbroker for $.81 cents a round right now, I bet we see $2 a round for 855 within a couple months.  XM193 will also get hoarded like 22LR now.  This is a bad deal.

Have you not seen the dozens of threads about responding?

Here is one

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1718217_Take_Action__Proposed_ATF_ban_on_M855_____How_to_respond.html&page=1

I have emailed Congress dudes.  Still working on my ATF response.

Last page of the proposal


ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical to do so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on or before March 16, 2015. ATF will not acknowledge receipt of comments.
Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method):
? ATF website: [email protected]. Follow the instructions for submitting comments.
? Fax: (202) 648-9741.
? Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs and Services, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070.

Now is not the time to panic buy bags of dicks.

I have 1000 rounds of Fedora M855 for sale

And here comes the increase on all FMJ .223 and 5.56 ammo.

You should be panicking.  The fudds should panic.  The handgun guys should panic.





Last time someone from the govt. wants to take away your right (whether arbitrarily or not) you should panic.



 

TexasRifleMan, did you dissect and weigh a SS109/M855 bullet as seen earlier in the thread?

The 10.8 grains (grams?) for the jacket differs from a value of 19.8 gr that I have seen.

There is a can with a $450 reserve with a bid.  $1.00 per round

Yes, I dissected it. The correct weight for that particular projectiles jacket was 20.3 grains. But some folks flipped out and asked I not give any ideas to our opponents who are doubtlessly reading this. Now everyone is posting numbers so whatever, it's out of my hands.

Crucify me if you want, I didn't want to give the other side ideas, once that was pointed out to me.

Counter arguments:
1) The common definition of ".22 caliber" has always included .222-.224" guns.
2) For a projectile to be "full jacketed" it would have to be base enclosed.
3) M855 was not "designed and intended" to be fired from a handgun.


For the record, pretty much all .224 FMJs seem to have jacket percentages above 25%. Don't believe me, obviously, test it yourself.

An attack on that front is coming eventually, I believe.

OMG burst fire it's an MG...

His original post when he weighed it was 20.3 grs.  Then he was afraid he was giving fuel justifying the ban since the jacket weight was over 25% (even though it doesn't apply to 22 cal), so he edited his post with a fake weight so that jacket would be under 25% in order to confuse ATF agents monitoring this thread, as well as several members.  Because the ATF would go by the weight posted in a thread instead of either 1. Weigh it themselves or 2. Call over to the Army and ask what the jacket weighs.

Original Photo from post.

I just want the truth.  Too many people are using the 10.8 gr value to incorrectly tell the ATF that the jacket is under 25% of the bullet weight.

That does not help. Since this projectile is still 22 caliber part (ii) does not make it armor piercing.

Part (i) does not make it armor piercing since the core is not close to 100% steel (or other bad material).

Thanks for the clarification.  I will use the 19.8 gr value I saw in another document.

The federal statutory definition of "Armor Piercing Ammunition" (see 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17)(B).16) is:

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed ENTIRELY (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

Would you like me to go back and reedit those comments at this point?

Caution seemed warranted at the time, my apologies for the unexpected problems.

ARFcom GD....where people argue over 0.50 grains of weight.

Yeah and EPA will ban that because....environment.

It would be difficult to edit past weights.  At this point people can use the correct value of about 19.8 gr.  All that matters now is that the jacket is over 25% of the projectile weight but since it is NOT larger than .22 caliber, that means that you can't use that percentage to label M855 as armor piercing.

BATFE: Where they ignore select words in the law so that a few grains that don't matter suddenly become a Big Fucking Deal.

We are clarifying whether the actual value is around 19.8 gr or 10.8 gr.  That is the issue...not 19.8 or 20.3.

E-mail.  [email protected].

18 U.S. Code § 921 (a) 17 (B) (ii) also has "designed and intended for use in a handgun"  and "fully jacketed" as qualifiers.

To argue M855 was "designed and intended for use in a handgun" is nothing short of insane.

480 rnds XM855 steel core armor piercing 223 5.56  

     AR15 AR soon discontinued ss109 green tip ammo
  Auction #  470374113    




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480 rnds XM855 steel core armor piercing 223 5.56



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Those same people who say they are 6'1 200#s and they are really 5'9" and 280#'s

If shouldering a pistol with sig brace "redesigns" it as a SBR then the ATF is actually being consistent with their "logic" here.  

How would that stop the ATF from just going back and reclassify things to fit their agenda?



 

...

Yup... Hence the concern.

They will try to use this angle, I'm sure of it. Maybe a year down the road, but it's not much more creative than the current reinterpretation.

No the question is 10.8   vs. 19.8/20.3

10 to 10.5 grains.

Bottom line:  do not argue that the jacket percentage is under 25% of the projectile weight.  Use the 22 caliber and not designed for a handgun TRUTH as written a few posts above.

Another link made news below.

http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2015/02/21/ban-armor-piercing-bullets/23816437/

I will sell every round of 5.56 I have for $1 a round. Seriously.