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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/23/2006 12:11:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 12:11:39 PM EDT by migradog]
I've sold a few rifles on the EE and always sent them to out of state FFL's with no problem.
Now, I just had a FFL tell me it was illegal for him to accept a rifle from me as I'm an out of state non-FFL holder.
Is this true? Did 2006 bring in a new law or something?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:12:46 PM EDT
No, he's full of shit.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:13:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 12:14:25 PM EDT by mcnielsen]
Tag. Not sure.


originally posted by migradog:

I've sold a few rifles on the EE and always sent them to out of state FFL's with no problem.



+1 I have never had probs w/this before, either, but would like to be sure.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:14:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.



+1
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:14:25 PM EDT
What State are you shipping it to?

That may make a difference?

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:14:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.




correct............some ffls do this b/c they think it is "safer" for them
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:16:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:18:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.



Absolutely full to the brim with shit.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:24:04 PM EDT

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



From the ATF FAQ
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:26:27 PM EDT
Sounds like he is looking for an excuse to charge more "transfer fees".
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:29:16 PM EDT
He is WRONG!
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:30:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.



+1



+2
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:46:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 12:47:18 PM EDT by danpass]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b17 (cold-link)

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [Back]


A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:01:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b17 (cold-link)

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [Back]


A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]



Just becasue the ATF says it's ok does not necessarily make it legal. States/municipalities have laws too.


Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:06:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By danpass:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b17 (cold-link)

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [Back]


A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]



Just becasue the ATF says it's ok does not necessarily make it legal. States/municipalities have laws too.





true, YMMV. This particular poster asks for clarification on:

Non-licensee to Licensee (FFL)
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:13:37 PM EDT
Per federal law, it is completely legal.

Some FFL have a policy or preference to not receive firearms from non-FFLs, but that's not a requirment of federal law.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:14:59 PM EDT
Fuck him. Find someone else.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:18:50 PM EDT
I believe SOME states or counties might have confusing laws on the matter, but at the Federal level the ATF is just fine with a non-licensee sending a firearm to an FFL for transfer.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:20:47 PM EDT
I know I've posted this before, but particularly when receiving a handgun, I insist on it coming from another FFL. The NYSP who oversee NY FFLs insist on that. The way some of you object to sending any sort of verifiable ID along with a transfer, I would insist on it as a CYA thing for me.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:30:23 PM EDT
Some Class 1's think they are a cross between Moses and Solomon when it comes to law and wisdom.

Too many of them don't know the law and lack any wisdom.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:31:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Fuck him. Find someone else.



+1


I have had them tell me it's so they don't receive a stolen gun. How stupid would you be a send a stolen gun to an FFL for transfer. I suppose you could do it if you used a fake address and left no pirnt on the gun or the package.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:42:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.



That's comforting to know that there are people on here without an FFL who know more than the fucktards with one. And we wonder why it's so hard to keep a firm grip on our 2nd Amendment Rights... well, now you know one good reason.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:58:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rcoers:
He is WRONG!




That's what I thought!

It's going from WA to AZ.

Never had a problem shipping a rifle to AZ before.

I have already given the buyer a list of other FFL's in his area.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:11:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By danpass:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b17 (cold-link)

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [Back]


A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]



Just becasue the ATF says it's ok does not necessarily make it legal. States/municipalities have laws too.





Can anyone actually find an example of this though ? An FFL has to be able to accept a gun from a non-FFL or else how could he ever sell it (I suppose to a non-FFL but that would be silly way to set up a law)
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:29:52 PM EDT
I can't believe in the year 2006 we still have an ATF. The days of Al Capone and alcohol prohibitions are long gone. Seems like the ATF is just another make work program for federal bearucrats.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:01:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.



That's comforting to know that there are people on here without an FFL who know more than the fucktards with one. And we wonder why it's so hard to keep a firm grip on our 2nd Amendment Rights... well, now you know one good reason.



Some of us that stated that the FFL was full of shit only recently decided not to renew our licenses. That is why I said he was full of shit. I still have the stack of books that the BATFE sent me in my office, so I could go look up the law, chapter and verse. But I know that an FFL can accept a firearm from a non-licensee.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:03:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.



+1000

Max
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:53:30 PM EDT
Just had an FFL tell me it was illegal to accept a rifle from a non FFL. Is it true?

The FFL in question just proved that MENSA membership is not a prerequisite for obtaining an FFL.
The assmonkey is dead wrong.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:56:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NRA2:
I can't believe in the year 2006 we still have an ATF. The days of Al Capone and alcohol prohibitions are long gone. Seems like the ATF is just another make work program for federal bearucrats.



There is just as much gang activity now as there ever was in Capones day.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:07:00 PM EDT
+1
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:08:54 PM EDT
Some FFL holders are uninformed and thusly full of made-up gap filling BS.

Do your business with someone competent.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:27:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drew5337:
Sounds like he is looking for an excuse to charge more "transfer fees".



Yep.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:33:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By NRA2:
I can't believe in the year 2006 we still have an ATF. The days of Al Capone and alcohol prohibitions are long gone. Seems like the ATF is just another make work program for federal bearucrats.



There is just as much gang activity now as there ever was in Capones day.



Yes, and hassling law abiding citizens about wether the silver solder used to perm attach their flash hider melts at 1000 degrees or 1100 degrees really helps combat gangs.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:56:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
Some Class 1's think they are a cross between Moses and Solomon when it comes to law and wisdom.

Too many of them don't know the law and lack any wisdom.



Ask him what law school he went to and is he a member of the bar in his state
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:24:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:

Originally Posted By rcoers:
He is WRONG!




That's what I thought!

It's going from WA to AZ.

Never had a problem shipping a rifle to AZ before.

I have already given the buyer a list of other FFL's in his area.



Well, in this case there is no STATE law against it, as I do it often. Check the local (city/county) ordinances wherever the FFL is (not likely to be any ordinances against it here in AZ) and inform the FFL of such....
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:26:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:

Originally Posted By rcoers:
He is WRONG!




That's what I thought!

It's going from WA to AZ.

Never had a problem shipping a rifle to AZ before.

I have already given the buyer a list of other FFL's in his area.



I shipped a handgun to someone in Arizona once and got the same runaround, I wonder if it was the same dealer? I ended up just getting an FFL friend to UPS it for me... still annoying.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:11:47 PM EDT
Sounds like I found a dealer of the same sort here in Texas. The first one I found wanted 10% or $30 whichever was greater and I was buying a real HK93 (you do the math on that transfer). I asked why so much and he got a little snotty saying that he is running a business and has to pay for his license. Well, my one transfer would pay for the next six years of his damn license...

Anyhow I found another dealer who charged a flat $50 - a lot better than the first but still high as hell for three minutes of paperwork. So I get his FFL and send it off to the seller. The seller then sends the rifle to dealer #2. I go today and the rifle is there but the dealer won't release it to me until he gets an FFL from the sender. Again, I question the guy behind the counter and he says that the law changed when the AW ban went away and that he needs the FFL... So I do all the paperwork and I get an all OK from the NICS thing but I still can't take home my rifle. I'll go back on Monday and see if I can get it sorted out.

I found this thread, read through the ATF FAQ linked here and called the dealer back... He says the same thing - has to be a dealer-to-dealer transfer. He then explains that they have called about this as well and that the ATF said it had to be dealer-to-dealer. I then read him the quoted question and answer from above - he said he is going to talk to the boss and they'll get back to me on Monday...

Lucky for me I've found another guy to do my future transfers who charges $10. Why is it that the supposed professionals don't know anything about the transfer process while the kitchen-dealers are all up to speed on the laws?


Spooky

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:50:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
Sounds like I found a dealer of the same sort here in Texas. The first one I found wanted 10% or $30 whichever was greater and I was buying a real HK93 (you do the math on that transfer). I asked why so much and he got a little snotty saying that he is running a business and has to pay for his license. Well, my one transfer would pay for the next six years of his damn license...

Anyhow I found another dealer who charged a flat $50 - a lot better than the first but still high as hell for three minutes of paperwork. So I get his FFL and send it off to the seller. The seller then sends the rifle to dealer #2. I go today and the rifle is there but the dealer won't release it to me until he gets an FFL from the sender. Again, I question the guy behind the counter and he says that the law changed when the AW ban went away and that he needs the FFL... So I do all the paperwork and I get an all OK from the NICS thing but I still can't take home my rifle. I'll go back on Monday and see if I can get it sorted out.

I found this thread, read through the ATF FAQ linked here and called the dealer back... He says the same thing - has to be a dealer-to-dealer transfer. He then explains that they have called about this as well and that the ATF said it had to be dealer-to-dealer. I then read him the quoted question and answer from above - he said he is going to talk to the boss and they'll get back to me on Monday...

Lucky for me I've found another guy to do my future transfers who charges $10. Why is it that the supposed professionals don't know anything about the transfer process while the kitchen-dealers are all up to speed on the laws?


Spooky




That happened to me about 5 years ago. The FFL wouln't release the rifle without the shipping dealers FFL. ATF informed him otherwise and he released the rifle.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:52:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigDozer66:
What State are you shipping it to?

That may make a difference?

BigDozer66



But I thought the first F in FFL is for "Ferderal"
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:04:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 4:04:53 PM EDT by Not_so_Clever]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.



That's comforting to know that there are people on here without an FFL who know more than the fucktards with one. And we wonder why it's so hard to keep a firm grip on our 2nd Amendment Rights... well, now you know one good reason.



You disappoint me PF74
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:21:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Not_so_Clever:

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
No, he's full of shit.



That's comforting to know that there are people on here without an FFL who know more than the fucktards with one. And we wonder why it's so hard to keep a firm grip on our 2nd Amendment Rights... well, now you know one good reason.



You disappoint me PF74



Why does that dissapoint you?

It is often very true.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:22:54 PM EDT
When I got my first AR about 6 weeks ago, the owner used to have an FFL and showed me where to look on the ATF site. You can send a firearm to an FFL in another state without having an FFL yourself. We traded rifles even up- after I called about 12 different shops in my area to find one the would do the transfer. had

The last call was to a small shop I had never heard of- and they hadn't heard of doing a transfer like that either. The differance was, the owners daughter was nice enough to get on their computer and follow my directions through the website to get the info they needed. About three days later I was picking up my AR and they were picking up a new customer.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:44:47 PM EDT
A lot of FFL's are changing their policies on receiving firearms from non-FFL holders, regardless of whether its legal or not. Matter of fact, I was in a shop when the FFL holder actually called the ATF and they told him he needed to receive only from other FFL dealers. I challenged this, but he really didn't care what I had to say. Its their license, to they make the rules.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:47:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jason280:
A lot of FFL's are changing their policies on receiving firearms from non-FFL holders, regardless of whether its legal or not. Matter of fact, I was in a shop when the FFL holder actually called the ATF and they told him he needed to receive only from other FFL dealers. I challenged this, but he really didn't care what I had to say. Its their license, to they make the rules.



That's really what it comes down to... They are the ones risking their license, not me. However, there needs to be a no kidding answer that is CORRECT from ATF themselves. Their web site FAQ says that it is OK, but I don't think I would want to hang my hat on that in a court of law. However, the FAQ has references back to the reg.

Spooky
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:50:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Fuck him. Find someone else.



+1
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:13:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
I know I've posted this before, but particularly when receiving a handgun, I insist on it coming from another FFL. The NYSP who oversee NY FFLs insist on that. The way some of you object to sending any sort of verifiable ID along with a transfer, I would insist on it as a CYA thing for me.



Fine with me, I'd just find someone else.

Done it with two FFLs so far that would not follow the law and tried to push their bullshit on me.
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