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Posted: 10/12/2004 2:52:00 PM EST

I just received a summons for photo radar ticket that I apparently got in July. I'm to appear in court on Nov. 4. I need some advice. I'm inclined to not pay and request a trial because I don't think the picture that they supposedly have of me is identifiable as me. What do you guys think?

Chris

Click for Pic
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:53:20 PM EST
Take a picture of your money and send it to them.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:53:39 PM EST
what kind of car is that?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:54:39 PM EST
Do they have your license plate? If not, I'd fight it.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:56:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:
what kind of car is that?




mini cooper
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:56:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Do they have your license plate? If not, I'd fight it.



Precisely.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:56:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Do they have your license plate? If not, I'd fight it.




how else would they find him?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:57:09 PM EST
how fast were you going?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:57:38 PM EST
there's enough glare that they probably can't prove it was you.


But since nowadays you're guilty until proven innocent, the burden would probably lie on you to prove someone else was driving your car at that day/time
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:57:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:03:05 PM EST by CSUSB_Coyote]
It took the city/state 3 months to send you a ticket? Don't you think that is a little long?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:58:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Do they have your license plate? If not, I'd fight it.



could be cropped.

be hard to defend if they have a full sized photo to show the judge.

besides.looking at the photo, looks too zoomed for a intersection camera. they try to take a picture at a wide enough angle to get your plate..
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:58:08 PM EST
No plate visable or did you crop the pic? Here in MA the owner can get a ticket even if he is not the driver. In Mass. the owner is ultimately responsible for the way the vehicle is operated. Although rarely enforced, police can cite the owner as well as whoever he allowed to drive.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:58:12 PM EST
I'm guessing he cropped the license plate out of the pic so we wouldn't all see it and know who he is......
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:58:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By ArmorerKrug:
Take a picture of your money and send it to them.





That ought to teach you not to answer the door. When someone comes to my house they better call first our "I'm not home".
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:59:43 PM EST
there is another pic with the back of my car and license plate


Chris
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:00:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
there is another pic with the back of my car and license plate


Chris



well then they got you, case closed
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:00:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Do they have your license plate? If not, I'd fight it.



Precisely.



Of course they have his plates..... thats how they MAILED him the ticket.....

The only question is.... if they cannot prove thats him in the pic, then he can deny he was driving the car.

I still say fight it, because photo tickets are bullshit..... but if that is you.... and you know thats you.... are you really prepared to go into a court and lie, and say it is not? That would be the tough part for me. I'd call a lawyer who handles these things.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:00:42 PM EST
There is enough glare in the precise spot that your face is that 100% identification could be hard. Grow a goatee out and walk in and say it wasn't me.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:00:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
there is another pic with the back of my car and license plate


Chris



looks like your paying.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:02:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Blue_Monkey:
No plate visable or did you crop the pic? Here in MA the owner can get a ticket even if he is not the driver. In Mass. the owner is ultimately responsible for the way the vehicle is operated. Although rarely enforced, police can cite the owner as well as whoever he allowed to drive.



Thats a bunch of hippie pinko faggot liberal bullshit if you ask me... thank the Lord I dont live there. This is the kind of govt. BS that gets my blood boiling...... I can take a lot, but this kind of shit is .... just..... must.... cool... down.... head.... exploding......
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:03:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:04:32 PM EST by dave223]
You broke the law and got caught. Sack up and be a man. Dont be like the rest of the shit-heads in this country and try to wiggle out of your responsibility in a loop-hole. Do the crime, Do the time when/if ya get caught. Man Up.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:03:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Do they have your license plate? If not, I'd fight it.




how else would they find him?



transponder moved to a different vehicle
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:04:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigscrun:
There is enough glare in the precise spot that your face is that 100% identification could be hard. Grow a goatee out and walk in and say it wasn't me.


Hell, it worked for Scott Peterson.... oh wait a minute....

CW
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:07:05 PM EST
Photo radar makes me wish I were a judge.

I'd make it all too clear to the public such cases would get thrown out.

How can anyone justify these things?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:07:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:09:41 PM EST
I'd say that you know it is you driving. Simple really, you got caught, stop the chicken shit "but maybe they can't prove it was me" game, nut up and stand by your actions...

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:09:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
I just received a summons for photo radar ticket that I apparently got in July. I'm to appear in court on Nov. 4. I need some advice. I'm inclined to not pay and request a trial because I don't think the picture that they supposedly have of me is identifiable as me. What do you guys think?

Chris

Click for Pic




Go to court.

Plead guilty, how could you say not guilty with a pic.?

Ask for judicial diversion. This is basically probation and you cannot get another ticket during your probationary time. This should also keep it from being reported to your insurance company and them jacking your rates.

At least this works in TN and usually all you end up paying is court costs. Court costs may be about as much as the ticket, but it does not go to your insurance company.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:09:58 PM EST
is the ticket for owning a mini cooper?

J
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:12:04 PM EST
I talked to a friend who lives in Tempe.

As of right now your car is "guilty".
If you can prove that someone else was operating your car them you will not get the ticket.
From what he says nothing short of having whoever was operating your car standing in front of the judge saying that it was him and not you will get you out of the ticket.

Why would you think it is not you who was speeding in your car?

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:12:09 PM EST
FYI- If you take the class it also doesn't hit your insurance....

-John
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:12:30 PM EST
They caught you on camera breaking the law, what is there for you to "fight"?

The only chance you have is to order a history report on that specific camera through the court and see how many complaints have been filed against it. It is within your/our rights to know the history of the radar and cameras used by the police. If you dispute it that way, it will cost the city/county to much and they will drop the ticket.

Unless you were in a school zone or hospital zone.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:13:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:14:18 PM EST by cck]

I'm not trying to weasel out of anything. The government has a responsibility to PROVE a crime was committed. I'm not inclined to do their leg work for them. And I don't think they have met their burden of proof with that photo.

Chris
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:19:04 PM EST
We used to have the same problem here in Colorado.somebody fought it based upon the following and won:#1 a violation of traffic laws must be witnessed by an actual police officer,NOT A Contractor.{It seems all the people in the radar vans were contractors.}
#2-propper summons for a moving violation must be hand delivered by a police officer.{The mail is not proper service}
#3-The use of radar cameras must be supervised by a police officer and not a contractor or other paid individual,as only a police officer has the legal right to enforce the laws.

you really need to look into this before just giving up.If the photo radar unit was manned by someone other than a legal cop,you have a great case,with Denver colorado as Case law.
Do a search on denver Colorado and photo radar and you will be amazed at what you find.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:19:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:20:46 PM EST by legalese77]

Originally Posted By cck:
I'm not trying to weasel out of anything. The government has a responsibility to PROVE a crime was committed. I'm not inclined to do their leg work for them. And I don't think they have met their burden of proof with that photo.

Chris



oh don't get all uppity mr. "I've got rights" ...lots of other people have taken it in the ass so you should too... I suppose your pansy ass is thinking about getting a lawyer to play games by using those rights you think you're entitled to, I mean it's not like the state has a lawyer or anything, quit playing games pay your tax and move along plebe, before you get squished



eta: wtf does a picture of his car prove? I got pictures of all sorts of cars, should I send them to the police to prosecute their owners? I would hate to be the reason so many vile criminals remained free
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:34:47 PM EST
I'd say they have you nailed. Now the question becomes: Does this infraction involve points on your license? Can you afford to have these points?

Paying up may save you time (not spending 16 hours in a classroom), but it may not save you money. Your insurance rates will go up for at least 3 years (that's how long those points stay on your record).
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:38:13 PM EST

To everyone who says they have me; Have you looked at the photo? The large amount of glare over the face didn't disuade you at all?

Chris
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:40:32 PM EST
Too much glare. I would fight it. Especially if you have a friend that looks somewhat like you. I would take photos of many people wearing the same thing that you had on, and show how much they look like you. Tell the judge that you let them all borrow it that day.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:43:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:45:23 PM EST by Gunzilla]

Originally Posted By cck:
To everyone who says they have me; Have you looked at the photo? The large amount of glare over the face didn't disuade you at all?

Chris



no, not at all... because by this post it is you. Trust me man, if you had any reason to believe that it was not you or that the picture was invalid, I would support your fight 100%

But, you did not ask "how the hell did this happen? I was at work when this picture was supposed to be taken?" or "I honestly can not recall I time when I ever even busted a yellow, I am very careful about this sort of thing, what could have happened".

No, you all but admit guilt when you say "do you think they can tell it is me?" Man up, you got caught, it is not like you are John Dillenger... just not a perfect driver, deal with it man...
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:43:45 PM EST
If you have a car like that and you believe it's you.....pay up, don't be a punk.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:44:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
To everyone who says they have me; Have you looked at the photo? The large amount of glare over the face didn't disuade you at all?

Chris




When the judge asks you directly if it is you it the picture, what is your reply going to be?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:47:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:48:19 PM EST by cck]

Originally Posted By newbushmaster:

Originally Posted By cck:
To everyone who says they have me; Have you looked at the photo? The large amount of glare over the face didn't disuade you at all?

Chris




When the judge asks you directly if it is you it the picture, what is your reply going to be?



"The picture was taken on July 6th, My first notice of this was infraction was on Oct. 12. I have no reason to remember who was driving my car that day. Your Honor, many of my friends have driven my car I can't tell you from that picture with ANY certainty WHO it is. I can give you a list of people it MAY be."

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:48:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:48:48 PM EST by paenutz]

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Do they have your license plate? If not, I'd fight it.




how else would they find him?



Precisely.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:55:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
How can anyone justify these things?


Money, lots and lots of money.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:02:49 PM EST
So, you are willing to lie? It was you in the car, and you did break the law!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:04:27 PM EST
Send them a picture of $247
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:04:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:

Originally Posted By newbushmaster:

Originally Posted By cck:
To everyone who says they have me; Have you looked at the photo? The large amount of glare over the face didn't disuade you at all?

Chris




When the judge asks you directly if it is you it the picture, what is your reply going to be?



"The picture was taken on July 6th, My first notice of this was infraction was on Oct. 12. I have no reason to remember who was driving my car that day. Your Honor, many of my friends have driven my car I can't tell you from that picture with ANY certainty WHO it is. I can give you a list of people it MAY be."




And he will sugest you plead guilty and pay your fines.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:06:46 PM EST
**********PLEASE READ************

As guilty as you may be, you have not been served properly unless someone came to your door and handed you the summons. Mailing the summons is the states way of getting revenue from those who don't know the law. I was a process server when I was putting myself through college. We handled a portion of photo radar tickets from Mesa. Most people just pay the fine or go to traffic school. When I received mine from Scottsdale I tossed it in the trash, they mailed another one and I tossed it in the trash also. Finally they sent a process server to my house and tried to serve me. I never answered the door for anyone for a about two months. I found out that a process server lied about personally servng me, went in and talked to the judge and he threw the case out.

I say screw them. I would at least make them serve you properly. Stand up for your rights.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:06:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By dave223:
So, you are willing to lie? It was you in the car, and you did break the law!



I don't know where you read that in anything I've posted.

I have said that from the picture provided I cannot say with any confidence who is driving my car. I have lots of friends of the same complexion who have driven my car. And I have no recollection of who was driving my car on July 6.

Is it likely that it's me? Sure. Does that mean that it was? No. Am I lying in anything I've said here? NO.

Chris
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:07:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By mleaky:
**********PLEASE READ************

As guilty as you may be, you have not been served properly unless someone came to your door and handed you the summons. Mailing the summons is the states way of getting revenue from those who don't know the law. I was a process server when I was putting myself through college. We handled a portion of photo radar tickets from Mesa. Most people just pay the fine or go to traffic school. When I received mine from Scottsdale I tossed it in the trash, they mailed another one and I tossed it in the trash also. Finally they sent a process server to my house and tried to serve me. I never answered the door for anyone for a about two months. I found out that a process server lied about personally servng me, went in and talked to the judge and he threw the case out.

I say screw them. I would at least make them serve you properly. Stand up for your rights.



They did serve me.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:09:05 PM EST
By Law, you cannot incriminate yourself. Fight it.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:09:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By cck:
I'm not trying to weasel out of anything. The government has a responsibility to PROVE a crime was committed. I'm not inclined to do their leg work for them. And I don't think they have met their burden of proof with that photo.

Chris



oh don't get all uppity mr. "I've got rights" ...lots of other people have taken it in the ass so you should too... I suppose your pansy ass is thinking about getting a lawyer to play games by using those rights you think you're entitled to, I mean it's not like the state has a lawyer or anything, quit playing games pay your tax and move along plebe, before you get squished



eta: wtf does a picture of his car prove? I got pictures of all sorts of cars, should I send them to the police to prosecute their owners? I would hate to be the reason so many vile criminals remained free



Yeah, great fucking idea. Let's just go to court and say to the state: FUCK ME UP THE ASS. YOU HAVE NO BURDEN OF PROOF. I'LL JUST MAKE YOUR CASE.

Not.
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