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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/7/2004 6:34:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:35:02 AM EST by ArmdLbrl]
I just came back from a 90min jaunt up to the drainage retention pond everyone uses as a shooting range. Its short, only about 100ft square, but its good enough for fun shooting.

This was the first time out for the AR since it THINK April, maybe longer. I have had it only out to clean since then, the rest of the time its been next to my bed, with a loaded mag in it, and my other four mags loaded in a old web bag next to it on the floor.

This was a disaster.

The first two rounds in the first magazine- the one I had in it that was supposed to be for security use!- failed to ignite.

Every one of my five magazines failed to lock the bolt back.

I had two other rounds that were duds in the other 120 rounds I had.

Because the bolt was not locking back, I was putting the loaded magazines in with the bolt forward, then chambering a round, twice the bolt jammed going forward with a round wedged with its point up against the TOP of the chamber, still stuck half in the magazine. And I had to pull the bolt back manually and lock it, drop the mag, put the round back into the mag and replace it. Then when I let the bolt release slam shut the rounds loaded just fine.

With the very last two rounds on the last magazine I had a failure to eject and it tried to rechamber the fired case ontop of a new round. That round I had to pull out of the ejector with my fingers.

When I put this gun up, because I was down to my last half a case of ammo and didn't have the money at the time to buy more, it functioned FLAWLESSLY. I had never had a problem with it with brass cased ammo, though Bernaul would stick in the chamber or in the extractor after it got hot, I had never had any problems with my IDF surplus ammo. The five magazines though used and still with black followers had never failed to function through the first 1000 odd rounds I have fired through them.

I bought 1100 rounds of this IDF surplus Ammo, all 1970's Winchester and 1980's IMI production. The rounds that didn't fire today were a WCC 76 and a WCC 79 and a TZZ 10/1989 and the round that failed to eject was a TZZ 90

I had exactly ONE failure to fire in the first half of this case, now I have had 3 in the last 150 rounds.
And I have been depending on this gun for the last YEAR for protecion!

I am NOT a happy camper, but I cant figure out how 8 months of storage, indoors, in air contitioning, even being cleaned ONCE in the interm (I was bored one day) could cause a perfectly working system to go so bad!

I just got 1000 rounds of Lake City 02 Lot 79 from Eric, I wanted to keep it in store, but looks like I have to expend some of it to try and diagnose what is wrong with this gun...
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:36:51 AM EST
Frankengun?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:39:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Frankengun?



If you mean a kit gun, yes.

Model 1 Sales 2001 vintage upper on a Rock River Arms Lower.

Thing is why did this not show up in the first case of ammunition?

Guns are supposte do requrie breaking in but this one worked perfectly from the time I put it togeather. NOW when its just had enough rounds through it to get "broken in" it develops problems...
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:42:21 AM EST
That IDF stuff is crap, plinking ammo only. I suffered 6% failure rate out of the mix, 90% of those failures were the WCC stuff.

Clean and CLP the carrier assy and try again. Check for loose gaskey.

Please list upper/barrel and lower type.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:43:46 AM EST
Maybe you got some debris inside your upper/recoil spring area that is causing some drag on your bolt. Try giving it a thorough cleaning and inspection.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:44:40 AM EST
you sure it wasn't just a bad dream? All my nightmares have guns with 100lb triggers or dead ammo
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:05:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:
That IDF stuff is crap, plinking ammo only. I suffered 6% failure rate out of the mix, 90% of those failures were the WCC stuff.

Clean and CLP the carrier assy and try again. Check for loose gaskey.

Please list upper/barrel and lower type.



20" HBAR upper, lower is just a regular Rock River Arms lower with a Model One Sales parts kit.
And I know people have problems with Model 1 Sales now, but this was back in 2001 when I assembled this and everyone on the Do It Yorself board raved about M1S back then
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:11:38 AM EST
The model1barrels are not chrome lined, try cleaning the chamber with chamber brush and clp, then remove residue with patches and 30cal bore mop.

Try a box of winnie white box from wallmart, it is 223 not 5,56, and will give a starting point to troubleshooting.

If that shoots ok, try the XM fed stuff, it is 5.56 as was the IDF stuff, but it will be fresher than the IDF was.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:14:12 AM EST
Good advice so far: (1) clean and re-lube, (2) test with fresh/known-good ammo, (3) report back if problem is not solved.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:16:30 AM EST
What kind of mags?


Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:19:26 AM EST
I am in the process of cleaning it right now- always clean it after I use it anyways. But, god, its just been SITTING since the last time it was cleaned, what the hell could of gotten in it?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:23:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
What kind of mags?





USGI used, 3 OKays, 1 Center, 1 Sanchez, 80's or early 90s make, still with black followers. Was going to buy green but when I got them they NEVER malfunctioned so I didn't change them. They all have only been filled 6 or 7 times each by me, but they have spent the last 8 months sitting loaded- though Troy assured me that would not be a problem to let them sit like that.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:31:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
What kind of mags?





USGI used, 3 OKays, 1 Center, 1 Sanchez, 80's or early 90s make, still with black followers. Was going to buy green but when I got them they NEVER malfunctioned so I didn't change them. They all have only been filled 6 or 7 times each by me, but they have spent the last 8 months sitting loaded- though Troy assured me that would not be a problem to let them sit like that.



I'm certainly not a mag expert - but those are the same kinds of USGI mags that I use and I've never had a problem (with either black or green followers).

Hopefully it's just a matter of really shitty ammo.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:32:40 AM EST
The problem is that you didn't use an AK.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:41:34 PM EST
Agun just sitting around, not being used will allow the oils to oxidize, and get thick. It will also attract dust and cause even more sluggishness.

I tried to fire a shotgun after it sat 2 years, no attention at all. It was put away after cleaning. The hammer wouldn't even drop.

Lube recommendation for the 1911A1 is to lube lightly at least weekly for an unfired carry gun.

I like to CLP my bolt group and FCG on an ar when heading to the range.This may not be your problem, but it is a good starting point, and is a cheap fix if it works.

Let us know what happens.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:47:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 5:51:26 PM EST by fight4yourrights]
What grease did you lube it with after cleaning?


(trick question)


We've got a guy that went 1 year and about 9,000 rounds with NO cleaning. They can be realiable.


The 1st 2 rounds didn't go BANG. That's either the ammunition or you have a problem with the firing pin. Did you inspect the rounds for primer hits?

Was there any crap on the rounds themselves? Oil, grease? Cheap ammo won't have sealed primers, so it's *possible* the primers got something in them that killed them.

Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:50:29 PM EST
Check the chamber for pitting, that will require extra force to overcome and can cause short stroking. If thats the case, your barrel is pretty well screwed.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:01:21 PM EST
How about oilgetting into the primers.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:04:56 PM EST
not to be a dick. and i'm not the one to give advice for AR problems, but I keep a revolver by my bed. and a semi-auto.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:06:42 PM EST
I know what you were told, but I have always believed that keeping fully loaded mags for extended periods is hard on the springs. I would take the springs out, stretch them and then only load then to 25 or 28 rounds. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:08:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By passgas55:

How about oilgetting into the primers.




I thought I said that...........
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:13:17 PM EST
I had similar problems...oiled/lubed an AR up over a year before I took it to the range again, and whoopsie...major problems feeding and ejecting.

Couple drops of CLP over the gas ring area of the bolt carrier, and a couple more on the top of the bolt carrier after I took it out, and it was running just fine.

Sounds like whatever oil you used, coagulated...it all does after a while. Next time take it out after a couple drops of CLP, and it should work just fine. It's just like any other motor out there, be it gas, gasoline, etc powered..no lubrication and it'll have problems running.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:14:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:16:05 PM EST by SNorman]
Just guessing...

Way too much oil...
Crap ammo... (for sure, either this or something is wrong with the firing pin)
Crap magazines...
Loose gas key...

?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:24:28 PM EST

Check for loose gaskey.

Your range experience perfectly described one I had this year, and that was the reason.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:33:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:35:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:37:25 PM EST by Garand_Shooter]

Originally Posted By geegee:

Check for loose gaskey.

Your range experience perfectly described one I had this year, and that was the reason.




+1 had the exact problem with a M1s bolt... screws were not staked well and backed out.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:37:26 PM EST
I had that problem with a stored AR once, my CLP had gummed up. I just took it apart and sprayed it down and it worked fine.
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