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Posted: 9/22/2005 1:08:15 PM EDT
This was actually said to me by the salesman last night when I bought a new Mossberg 500.

In non-ARFCOM fashion, I refrained from comment...
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:09:41 PM EDT
Sometimes they don't run away, they just faint or even die right on the spot.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:11:04 PM EDT
or they pull out their guns and shoot back. I wouldnt count on just racking it and they run. If that worked why not have just some sound effects of a slide beging racked and a deep voice saying "Get the fuck out!"
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:11:31 PM EDT
I had a salesman tell me that once and I said"but what if the perp is real twitchy and decides to dump a mag into the location he heard it come from?"
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:11:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:12:17 PM EDT
Also remember that with a shotgun, you don't have to aim. Just point it in the general direction of the bad guy and the magic death BBs will take care of the rest.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:12:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
What's his arfcom screen name?



sir_shitzalot

Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:12:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
or they pull out their guns and shoot back. I wouldnt count on just racking it and they run. If that worked why not have just some sound effects of a slide beging racked and a deep voice saying "Get the fuck out!"



It's a running joke like "what gun did Al Pacino use in Heat?". Everyone knows it's nonsense.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:13:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
This was actually said to me by the salesman last night when I bought a new Mossberg 500.

In non-ARFCOM fashion, I refrained from comment...



Dude I got a tactical amplifier and speaker system for my Remington 870.

I can induce shotgun rack coronaries from a block away.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:15:36 PM EDT
They would hear my dogs bark at my place. If they persist, they get to hear a shot, not a rack.

Scott
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:15:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 1:18:02 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
I've been thinking about trading in all of my battle rifles for shotguns. Hell, if a perp pisses himself at the racking sound I won't even need to practice or buy ammo

Thanks guys-you just saved me a ton of money for ammo and unneeded training

ETA: If the perp doesn't piss himself I'll just dial 911 and let the police handle it. I'll just call a 'timeout' so the perp won't begin shooting or raping my loved ones before the police arrive.

Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:18:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
I've been thinking about trading in all of my battle rifles for shotguns. Hell, if a perp pisses himself at the racking sound I won't even need to practice or buy ammo

Thanks guys-you just saved me a ton of money for ammo and unneeded training




Exactly. Plus in the (unlikely) event that you have to shoot, you don't have to aim at all.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:20:09 PM EDT
Actually I have done it, and it is true that it can work, though it is not something I would rely on.

I was out camping near Glenallen. We came in late pulled in and were setting up camp in a pull out with several other campers nearby. it was about 2 am or so. I am getting set up to goto bed and I see two legs sticking out from under my neighbor's atv trailor. One of the local kids is trying to untie the 4 wheeler. I look at my buddi and say "Watch this" and grab my unloaded winny defender and rack it. The dude under thr trailor startles and hits his head on the trailor, and then I see his cohort running from behind another camper (apparently cooler raiding) and they both take off.


Keep in mind that the noise won't make you shit your pants by itself, but if you are up to no good, it is not something that you want to hear.

Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:26:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:37:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 1:39:25 PM EDT by OBird]
In a sense, he was right. There is one study I've heard of that found that simply brandishing a weapon in the presence of an intruder will cause the BG to flee, surrender, or otherwise submit about 95% of the time.

Of course, you should always assume that you will be in that other 5%...
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:40:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
www.btammolabs.com/images/shotgunmegaphone.gif



Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:41:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
www.btammolabs.com/images/shotgunmegaphone.gif




That is just hysterical!

I've heard the rack the slide thing so many times . I always ask them "Why would I do that and put a perfectly good round on the ground when it was already in the chamber?"

Blank stare as if I was nuts.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:41:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
www.btammolabs.com/images/shotgunmegaphone.gif




Flashbunny is one of the best sites on the planet, period.

I don't know who they are, but they think just like I do. If I ever met someone who developed content for that site I'd buy them many, many beers.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:41:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:42:32 PM EDT
The post was meant to be humorous, but since some of you insist on making it serious, let me ask you this...

Why would you give away the advantage of surprise by audibly making your presence and location known? Wouldn't it be smarter to just have one in the chamber with the saftey on just the way most of us carry?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:46:25 PM EDT
i thought the whole point was to rack it so that the BG turns toward the noise so you won't shoot him in the back.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:47:04 PM EDT
Damn I suppose I am at a disadvantage. I guess the first slug down range will have to serve as a warning before I can function the action to allow the perp to shit him or herself. Barring that, I suppose I can always resort to the bayonet on my shotgun after running out of 9 rounds.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:49:19 PM EDT
Remember the good ole days when you could let one fly in the air without getting arrested for discharging.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:45:10 PM EDT
This discussion always reminds me of that Simpsons episode.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:47:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
What's his arfcom screen name?



sir_shitzalot




oh hardy har har
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:49:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
i thought the whole point was to rack it so that the BG turns toward the noise so you won't shoot him in the back.

Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:51:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 3:52:35 PM EDT by FortyFiveAutomatic]

Originally Posted By OBird:
In a sense, he was right. There is one study I've heard of that found that simply brandishing a weapon in the presence of an intruder will cause the BG to flee, surrender, or otherwise submit about 95% of the time.

Of course, you should always assume that you will be in that other 5%...



Yep, then fire before he has a chance to change his mind, for better or worse. The way I see it, the moment he encroaches, he's a dead man. Also, why give away your position with a loud shotgun rack? All perps are twitchy.


Originally Posted By david_g17:
i thought the whole point was to rack it so that the BG turns toward the noise so you won't shoot him in the back.



But that IS an interesting point.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:57:02 PM EDT
If done quickly the bolt of an AK makes a nice sound too.

Still, making noises to give away your location is bad. Very bad.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:01:15 PM EDT
The closest I can manage to the devastating effect of a shotgun action is the soft click of a safety and a maniacal giggle....
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:31:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blued-Steel:

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
www.btammolabs.com/images/shotgunmegaphone.gif




That is just hysterical!

I've heard the rack the slide thing so many times . I always ask them "Why would I do that and put a perfectly good round on the ground when it was already in the chamber?"

Blank stare as if I was nuts.



What's worse is most people are actually loading it for the first time.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:35:29 PM EDT

If they run away that means you let them escape the kill zone. That is a FAILURE! Remember the roach motel. They can check in, but they can't check out.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:37:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 5:38:23 PM EDT by echo6]

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
www.btammolabs.com/images/shotgunmegaphone.gif




Flashbunny is one of the best sites on the planet, period.

I don't know who they are, but they think just like I do. If I ever met someone who developed content for that site I'd buy them many, many beers.



Flashbunny is run by an ARFCOMER by the name of Bastat. Havent seen him around in a while 'tho.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:39:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 5:39:31 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
www.btammolabs.com/images/shotgunmegaphone.gif




Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:42:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
This was actually said to me by the salesman last night when I bought a new Mossberg 500.

In non-ARFCOM fashion, I refrained from comment...



Some will probably run, but the sound made after you pull the trigger is a little more effective.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:43:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
www.btammolabs.com/images/shotgunmegaphone.gif




Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:45:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
i thought the whole point was to rack it so that the BG turns toward the noise so you won't shoot him in the back.


Works for me!
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:46:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 5:49:24 PM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By david_g17:
i thought the whole point was to rack it so that the BG turns toward the noise so you won't shoot him in the back.



If he is in your house, you may feel free to shoot him any way he is facing. Racking the actiosn is just asking for some paranoid jittery freak to spin around and start spraying rounds intot eh area he heard the sound.

I would just quietly walk to a good position if possible, make any mental notes that its not a drunk buddy , then say a prayer, hope he is on the tile and then center mass, BOOM. Then I sit there and wonder why my Rott didnt get him first while I wait for any of his buddies to come slinking out of the shadows.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:48:22 PM EDT
It just goes to show that most sales people are just trying to make a sale. I was in Cabelas on sunday, a woman was looking at a Tauras 9mm. He was trying to place a little woman with a little gun. The salesman was telling her all kinds of BS. She asked about a Glock, "Oh that is the handgun designed by the military. With the military attachments it can fire underwater and is the most accurate and fastest firing automatic weapon." (yes I know it can fire underwater, and yes I love my Glock) Then they got into double and triple taps. He was a police officer that was in the marines that taught handgun classes. Then another salesman walks up and he teaches too. I walked away. Then yesterday I was there again, (I go there alot) Same situation but with shotguns this time. Guess what I here. "This is all they need to hear!" As he racks the forearm back. C'mon
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:27:07 PM EDT
I hate it when I hear people say that is an advantage of a pump action shotgun.

I don't ever hear anyone ever say that the racking sound of their s/a pistol has the same effect, which in all reality would. I don't believe guns are to be used as intimidation tools. You draw your gun (pistol, shotgun, or rifle) only if you plan on firing it. Otherwise, you just give the perp more time to make YOU the victim.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:29:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually to some degree it's true. several years ago i surprised some "urban youths" breaking into my blaser. racked the ole shotty about 3 feet from their heads. one ran the other stood there and pissed himself.




SOmetime in the very late 70s, early 80s, I was living on the road in a pickup camper and heard sounds outside like someone quietly trying to get in. Racked the shotty. Panic outside and the sounds of a couple pairs of tennies beating feet.

A couple days later, my pal picked up a newspaper in a trash can (we were poor then)and found out that someone got carved up with a knife a couple miles from where we were parked the same night and shortly after the incident.

Can't say for sure, BUT...........................Scary.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:36:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By piccolo:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually to some degree it's true. several years ago i surprised some "urban youths" breaking into my blaser. racked the ole shotty about 3 feet from their heads. one ran the other stood there and pissed himself.




SOmetime in the very late 70s, early 80s, I was living on the road in a pickup camper and heard sounds outside like someone quietly trying to get in. Racked the shotty. Panic outside and the sounds of a couple pairs of tennies beating feet.

A couple days later, my pal picked up a newspaper in a trash can (we were poor then)and found out that someone got carved up with a knife a couple miles from where we were parked the same night and shortly after the incident.

Can't say for sure, BUT...........................Scary.



"Pays to be careful" -John Wayne
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:40:09 PM EDT
You were at the frontiersman today, weren't you?

I've gotten the same speech there myself.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Beleg:
You were at the frontiersman today, weren't you?

I've gotten the same speech there myself.



It was Gander Mt. in Mtka. though I'm not surprised you may have heard it there as well.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:54:57 PM EDT
Not this shit again!!!!! Let's say you were standing in my front door with no kevelar vest on(just a tee shirt and an outer garment)and you had the choice of being shot with one round!

Any twelve gauge with S&B 2and 3/4 buck,or a 147 grain 9 mil!!!

Bet you would choose the 9 mil?

Shotguns have a role,just not as self defence weapons!! Will they blow your arm of(no)will they mangle it into a usless apendage? Yes!!!

Even with 8 oz bird shot two well placed shots means two less hands to hold a weapon to harm you!!!

Anybody that says anything less has never shot a shotgun!!!

Of course guys like Styer could still kick you to death,so I would recomend shooting thier legs off too!!!

WAHOOOO another shotguns are nothing to worry about!!!!!


Bob
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:59:00 PM EDT
I just installed an alarm system and instead of a siren going off it's the sound of shotguns being racked
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:07:31 PM EDT
I heard one of the local gun store guys refer to the rail on a rifle as the "pickaninny rail" he wasn't talking to me but I had to shove my hand on my mouth to keep from cracking up.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:10:53 PM EDT
When I drive down the street my tires make the sound of four shotguns being racked. You should see the people run!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:27:29 PM EDT
The notion of just point it towards the bad guy and shoot is often mocked, but there is some ergonomic merit. I have had some damn poor shot placement with my pistol(s) depending on trigger placement, way off target. I have never had this problem with a shotgun. Even shot from the hip the eye tracks down the barrel and the degree of error is very slight. I can squeeze and jerk the trigger on my shotguns and the barrel moves very little. Same panicked technique with a pistol puts the round god-knows-where.

I have watched a guy shoot trap from the hip. At 16yds he hits about 18 to 22 out of 25. He found out by accident when he injured his shoulder during a shoot.

I have done some practice with a short barreled shotgun with a pistol grip shooting it from the hip. At 25 yds I have no doubt that I can hit a torso. Inside of a house I have no doubt that even a first time shooter can hit what they want. It is fun to mock, but you need to try it.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:29:13 PM EDT
The distinctive sound an AK-47 makes when firing has much more impressive results. Tell that to the sales person. You'll get an even stranger look.

When I bought my mossy 500 the guy said "shoot somebody with this and they'll be nothing left except DNA". I asked him if they sold one that would eliminate the DNA too. We both got on hell of a laugh out of it. Some of these sales people are joking, some are serious.

I love telling the walmart lackies I'm buying 9mm for a shotgun instead of 'rifle or pistol'.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:29:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blued-Steel:
I've heard the rack the slide thing so many times . I always ask them "Why would I do that and put a perfectly good round on the ground when it was already in the chamber?"

Yep.


I'd bet 95% of the time it WOULD make the baddie run/shit, but still...
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:36:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 8:38:21 PM EDT by Surf]

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
i thought the whole point was to rack it so that the BG turns toward the noise so you won't shoot him in the back.



If he is in your house, you may feel free to shoot him any way he is facing. Racking the actiosn is just asking for some paranoid jittery freak to spin around and start spraying rounds intot eh area he heard the sound.

I would just quietly walk to a good position if possible, make any mental notes that its not a drunk buddy , then say a prayer, hope he is on the tile (if he is, then I am thankful about buying the wet/dry vacuum) and then center mass, BOOM. Then I sit there and wonder why my Rott didnt get him first while I wait for any of his buddies to come slinking out of the shadows.

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