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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/1/2002 10:48:29 PM EDT
on AR15.com... [url]http://assaultweb.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/226820.html[/url] Don't say "dang." LOL.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 10:58:49 PM EDT
Dang ,dang ,dang , dang , oh oh please don't boot me ... What a bunch of .... babies .
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 11:00:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 11:04:11 PM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
Did they ban 'Ya AUGgy, not that it would matter, There is no bigger band of total religious maniacs on the net, than the guys over at AssaultWeb.... I try not to go over there...just because I don't want to get on the FBI's Eric Robert Rudolph's Little Helpers, Suspect List.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 11:01:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 11:05:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 11:05:41 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
I wonder if after they ban you, do you get released from government surveillance? It's sad though, I know a couple of them in real life and they are nice guys.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 11:13:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 11:16:25 PM EDT
Funny thing is, THIS guy WASN'T banned: ------------------------------------------------ Posted by Antares: [i]"god dang it ... I wonder how you're recovering from your heart attack you had after you found out that the former president stuck a cigar in an interns vagina."[/i] ------------------------------------------------
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 11:28:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 11:29:44 PM EDT by Mortech]
[b]KOOKS[/b] - definition: [b]K[/b]eepers [b]O[/b]f [b]O[/b]dd [b]K[/b]nowledge [b]S[/b]ociety See their legit .
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 12:03:45 AM EDT
Do ya think the Mods over there share the great big stick they seem to have up their butts?
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 12:04:31 AM EDT
At least you didn't have to submit to the BOI.[whacko]
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 12:07:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: At least you didn't have to submit to the BOI.[whacko]
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"Do you now, or have you ever posted PORN?" LOL.
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 12:53:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: At least you didn't have to submit to the BOI.[whacko]
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"Do you now, or have you ever posted PORN?" LOL.
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I invoke my right to refuse to answer under the guarantee's afforded to me under the fifth amendment of the US Constitution.
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 12:59:04 AM EDT
Wow. I read some of that thread and some of the accompanying thread at fullauto. While I know nuts like that exist, it still weirds me out to run into them. Steyr, I think you are better off being banned. -legrue
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 1:48:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: on AR15.com... [url]http://assaultweb.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/226820.html[/url] Don't say "dang." LOL.
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The page cannot be found The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please try the following: If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly. Open the assaultweb.net home page, and then look for links to the information you want. Click the Back button to try another link. Click Search to look for information on the Internet. HTTP 404 - File not found Internet Explorer
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 1:51:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 2:12:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
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Now that's funny!
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Ahhhh that's my line.
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 3:37:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 2:24:42 PM EDT
Well seems that when the mods do something out of line they are as accountable as Janet Reno. For this reason they nuked the thread in question. For those who missed it, it was a topic being critical of George Bush Jr. for saying "God dang it." To which I posted the following reply: [b]Gentlemen, of all the ACTUAL and POTENTIAL problems facing our country I cannot believe anyone would take the time to focus on and be concerned with this. Doktor_Jeep nailed it with "Who gives a rat's ass?" I wasn't gonna comment but seeing as how someone finally pointed out the Emporer has no clothes, I thought I'd lend common sense some support. If you really want out of the situation that 8 years of Clinton put this country in you better start trying to convince mainstream America that you are NOT "dang" nuts and would not repress things like free speech or insitute a religious/police state. Cause right now, just this very kind of rhetoric scares the "dang" out of ordinary Americans. So much so that they often vote Democrat. I sure as "dang" wouldn't support some of the members here if they ran for office.[/b] I was banned by Stokes for that post with the following explanation: [b]Yah... right like you are not one of the problems you hypocrite.. Gunowners like you ruined this board not anyone on here.. rivaling in decent..and treachery..Don't worry no B.O.I for you..just the Boot..and i'll be sending you some more quality members soon...Goodbye.. http://www.full-auto.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000846;p=4 Nice company your keeping..Rik,,Stormy..Gaddy,,looks like your brewing with a real quality crew there BROTHER...[/b] Or maybe Stokes just deleted the topic because he linked to PORN by using a full-auto URL and violated his own rules. They actually consider our forum a porn site. Wonder if he will now be banned or face the BOI.
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 2:30:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 2:39:00 PM EDT
Dang n Such
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 2:41:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: Well, who gives a rat's ass?
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Well Dang, I thought it was funny...
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 3:27:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2002 3:30:01 PM EDT by Gr8Scott]
ARTHUR (scared stiff) Who are you? TALL KNIGHT We are the Knights Who Say "Dang"! BEDEVERE No! Not the Knights Who Say "Dang"! TALL KNIGHT The same! ARTHUR Who are they? TALL KNIGHT We are the keepers of the sacred words. Dang ... Peng ... and Neee ... Wom! BEDEVERE Those who hear them seldom live to tell the tale. TALL KNIGHT The Knights Who Say "Dang"! demand a sacrifice. ARTHUR (to the TALL KNIGHT) Knights Who Say "Dang" ... we are but simple travellers. We seek the Enchanter who lives beyond this wood and who ... TALL KNIGHT Dang! ARTHUR (recoiling) Oh! TALL KNIGHT Dang! Dang! ARTHUR (he cowers in fear) Oh!
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 4:54:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 5:06:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 5:23:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Well Dang, I thought it was funny...
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So you are banned from one site and then go to another from which (if I understand your history here correctly) you were banned to post about it while at the same time posting about it yet again on the site where you are a moderator? As a wise man once said "Well, who gives a rat's ass?" You need to get out more. Some wonderful things outside. Trees and grass, and other people. [NI]
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 6:54:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Belloc: So you are banned from one site and then go to another from which (if I understand your history here correctly) you were banned to post about it while at the same time posting about it yet again on the site where you are a moderator? As a wise man once said "Well, who gives a rat's ass?" You need to get out more. Some wonderful things outside. Trees and grass, and other people. [NI]
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GOOD POINT. And what happened to the AW member who said "Who gives a rat's ass?" Did he get banned as well? These words are certainly much worse than "God Dang It." But the majority of the AW members found that offensive. And I was banned for much less than "Who gives a rat's ass?" By contrast you guys post without fear of censorship on our board. You see on YOUR board when things start to "look bad" you can delete the post, as in the above case. But on "other" forums you have to try and demonize the poster, as in this case. Ultimately AW is responsible for it's reputation, nothing we could do or say would matter if it wasn't borne out by AW itself. If you don't like other boards posting AW links and making comments about the content, you should consider what is posted AT assault web. We don't feel compelled to delete our posts when they are linked to other boards. Yeah, I know I spend too much time on the net and need to get out more. LOL. BTW, how do YOU feel about the President saying "God Dang It"? Or did you just stop by to distract from the issue?
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 7:49:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: What is this guy's problem? He has a worst case of "can't spell" than Todd does.
.. rivaling in decent..and treachery.
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The first should be "revelling", but is the second "deceit" or "dissent"? Just when I start thinking that maybe most people aren't that stupid after all. DANG!
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You should read his rant...it's starts off "I've about had enough of this whole Hippocratic mess" Yeah, damn that Hippocratic oath...it's all the doctors' fault. He's a regular online Yogi Berra.
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 7:56:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 8:02:29 PM EDT
Now reads ... [b][size=4]HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found[/size=4][/b] .. Did you really expect that thread to last on that joke of a site?
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 9:32:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: [b]And what happened to the AW member who said "Who gives a rat's ass?"[/b] We had him shot. You got off easy. [b]These words are certainly much worse than "God Dang It." But the majority of the AW members found that offensive.[/b] The majority of AW members consider themselves devout in their religious beliefs thus what you consider "certainly much worse" is not what others might. At the very least you must honestly admit that you can understand how this could be true. Is saying "God dang it" taking the Lords name in vain? Well, I don't know, maybe, maybe not. But I fail to see how erring on the side of caution deserves sneers. And I think it a rather important point that as it would have been rather stupid to let the atheists in Cold War Moscow dictate American foreign policy, it is just as nonsensical to let other avowed atheists determine what may or may not be a violation of one of God's commandments. Sure we will get it wrong from time to time. But unless you are going to join the club you can't play. It's only faith. It doesn't cost anything. [b]And I was banned for much less than "Who gives a rat's ass?"[/b] From reading your ban post I rather inferred that you had stepped on quite a few toes many times before. Am I correct that you were also for a time banned from this site? [b]By contrast you guys post without fear of censorship on our board.[/b] Well, I rather define censorship the way the Founders did hence it is a tenable position that we are not engaged in censorship. In any event I fail to see your point. Some of what goes on over at your board would not be allowed not only at AssaultWeb, but here also. At AK-47 (home of fake SEALS and de-facto ATF agents) they had their host filter out any mention of this site. I know you like I read many posts from people who complain about Glock-talk, Firing-line, ect. Big friggin deal. A person can visit an art exhibit and come away hating it and then call his friends to comment on what he did not like. But after the second or third call the friend is going to say "OK! I get it, you did not like the artists work! Go someplace else next time!" [b]You see on YOUR board when things start to "look bad" you can delete the post, as in the above case.[/b] I agree with about 85% of the post deletions but I would not have deleted yours. If I were a GD mod I would however edited your post to not include the link and added the name of your site and how to find it with Google or Lycos. Silly? Maybe. But it's the principle of the thing. No links to site with porn. Did you see the movie Meet the Parents? Remember the scene where Ben Stiller is hooked up to the polygraph and asked if he has ever view "pornographic videotapes"? You might understand that I believe that even you would have to admit that if you were hooked up and asked "does your site have any pornography?" you would at the very least get that needle to hiccup if you said "Uh, no". I will not fail to mention that I thought that you would have had at the very least the common decency to delete the thread by Scarecrow.
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 9:36:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2002 9:41:15 PM EDT by Belloc]
[b]Ultimately AW is responsible for it's reputation, nothing we could do or say would matter if it wasn't borne out by AW itself.[/b] Really? [url]http://assaultweb.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/226781.html[/url] Go here and scroll down to my post. Old lying Willy Gun has YET to respond to my charge that he is a liar. So he tells a couple of lies on your site and then says he does not like AW because of the 'anti-government radicals'. Of course, as I point out in my post, he goes on to post on your site a bunch of "line in the sand", "One World Government" and when will it be time to "resort to more forceful means". What a putz. [b]We don't feel compelled to delete our posts when they are linked to other boards.[/b] As said above we have a no link to sites with porn rule. What is the big deal? [b]BTW, how do YOU feel about the President saying "God Dang It"?[/b] Here is my post from that thread: "It's not what he said that you should be concerned with. It's that it made the news. You don't think Clinton was caught on tape in his 8 years saying things far worse than this little nothing? It reminds me of the Ashcroft story of a few months ago when he requested that the naked statue behind him be covered. I was talking to a friend at the time about it (a democrat and former senator) and mentioned that I have seen the USAG conduct lots of briefings, but all of a sudden cameramen decided to move a little to Ashcroft's left and get the naked stature in the background with the woman's exposed breast right above his head. He agreed that he could not remember such photos of other AG taken to get the breast right above the head. I don't care about the statue. But as the book "Bias" makes abundantly clear, the press only likes to point out the gaffs of the Repubs and will do anything to embarrass them. I hear Rush talking about it sometimes. He will wonder on the air how Dan Quayle is still made fun of over a word that was misspelled on the card but Clinton (or Gore, I forget) looks at busts of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson in the White House and actually says "Who are these people?" And I still remember when Clinton was in Rome and said, and I quote "It's hard to imagine that this is actually the ground where Romulus and Remus walked". I will cut someone more slack when they have TV cameras all up in their snoz and the word is misspelled on the dang card they were handed and are reading from. Quayle never had a presence in front of the camera like Clinton or Reagan. He always seemed very tense and nervous. I don't think the guy is any genius, I just don't think he was paying attention. But Romulus and Remus? Give me a break."
Link Posted: 6/2/2002 10:30:14 PM EDT
Belloc, just the key points... [b]Is saying "God dang it" taking the Lords name in vain? Well, I don't know, maybe, maybe not. But I fail to see how erring on the side of caution deserves sneers. [/b] You got a point about non believers deciding what is taking the lords name in vain. However, please understand these are the same guys who discuss shooting JBTs in the same manner that others discuss NASCAR. When they get upset about "God dang it", it strikes the rest of us as odd. [b]From reading your ban post I rather inferred that you had stepped on quite a few toes many times before. Am I correct that you were also for a time banned from this site?[/b] Actually I participated very little at AW. I was temporarily banned for seeking information on the abortion issue. After that I posted very little. Feel free to do a search and verify that. But it seems they had it out for me. I can only guess it is because I don't subscribe to Christianity in a manner they find acceptable. I guess those patriots read "Freedom of Religion" to mean free to be Christian. [b]I know you like I read many posts from people who complain about Glock-talk, Firing-line, ect. Big friggin deal...Go someplace else next time![/b] At this point it is mostly a source of entertainment for us. Kinda like the Springer show. [b]I will not fail to mention that I thought that you would have had at the very least the common decency to delete the thread by Scarecrow. [/b] It didn't violate OUR forum rules as established by OUR administrator. Very little does. In fact only "some" of what is found at AW would violate our rules. The advocacy of terrorism and support of events like 9-11. [b]As said above we have a no link to sites with porn rule. What is the big deal?[/b] Wasn't about the porn issue. AW has a habit of starting posts like "The president said God Dang" and when they end up looking stupid or do something like ban a member who did NOT violate the forum rules, they delete it in an effort to cover their tracks. Anyway, don't wanna make this one 7 pages. We both know how we feel.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 7:45:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2002 7:49:47 AM EDT by Belloc]
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: [b]You got a point about non believers deciding what is taking the lords name in vain. However, please understand these are the same guys who discuss shooting JBTs in the same manner that others discuss NASCAR. When they get upset about "God dang it", it strikes the rest of us as odd.[/b] I think I could convince a jury of your peers that you are using way too broad a brush here. SOME member felt that the Lord's name was taken in vain. SOME other members have in the past discussed "shooting JBT's". But just because both posts on are the same forum does not mean it is the same group involved in the discussion. And what of Willy Gunn who posted on your site about risking the "lives of our children", "drawing a line in the sand", and using "more forceful means" against a "one world government"? Sounds one key off note from "shooting JBT's" to me. And I have seen on every forum talk of how members would shoot JBT's under certain circumstances, say if they broke into their home, or started firing on them. I'm not stating a position on the issue only pointing out that it happens on every board, even yours. [b]I can only guess it is because I don't subscribe to Christianity in a manner they find acceptable.[/b] In what manner do you subscribe to Christianity? [b]I guess those patriots read "Freedom of Religion" to mean free to be Christian.[/b] Christianity played a pivotal role in the founding and formation of this Republic. To many that means quite alot. "Bad men cannot make good citizens. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom. It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." Patrick Henry "Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand." John Adams You get the idea. [b]At this point it is mostly a source of entertainment for us. Kinda like the Springer show.[/b] The line about the pot calling the kettle black comes quickly to mind. [b]It didn't violate OUR forum rules as established by OUR administrator.[/b] Too bad. A little decency and virtue can go a long way. [b]The advocacy of terrorism and support of events like 9-11.[/b] I have never seen ANYONE advocate terrorism or support 9-11. Not ever. Once again I remind you that when Willy Gunn said he read a post of mine where I advocated violence and said only Christians were worthy of freedom on your site. Now on three sites on which he posts I pointed out he was lying and he has not once denied it. [b]Wasn't about the porn issue. AW has a habit of starting posts like "The president said God Dang"[/b] Your confused I think. You mean certain members start posts. The forum itself cannot post to itself. I'm not trying to be coy here but the distinction is rather important. [b]and when they end up looking stupid[/b] Members of all boards start threads that you might find odd or "stupid". I think that post by Scarecrow make him and full-auto look like a bunch of juvenile dipsh_ts. You decided to leave the thread. I don't understand you. First you take exception to what you consider weird posts on AW then again take exception when we might agree and remove these same posts.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 8:19:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2002 8:34:23 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Brief reply cause AR15 is moving SLOOOOOW. First glad you also find us entertaining. If you have a problem with our forum rules, take it up with the Administrator. [url]admin@full-auto.com[/url] If you have a problem with WilliamGunn address it with him. If you have a problem with Scarecrow address it with him. And if you have a problem with me, I'm pretty easy to find. What this comes down to is bias. AW clearly has a Christian Bias. Those they believe to be Christian are held to a different standard and given more leeway. Those who they believe aren't Christian are held to a much different standard. Full Auto also has a bias. We prefer FREEDOM to those who would prefer to have us repress "some" expression. The difference is we try and hold everyone to the same standard. You can post on virtually ANY topic regardless of who you are. We have several members who would be recognized as "true believers" on AW and they post without persecution.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 8:58:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2002 9:02:06 AM EDT by Belloc]
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: [b]Brief reply cause AR15 is moving SLOOOOOW.[/b] Slow ain't the word for it. I think it might even be moving backwards. [b]First glad you also find us entertaining.[/b] Amused would be a better word. [b]If you have a problem with our forum rules, take it up with the Administrator. If you have a problem with WilliamGunn address it with him. If you have a problem with Scarecrow address it with him.[/b] The problem is that we allow you to run your board the way you wish without constant cross forum harangues. I bring up little Willy to point out that at the very least some of what is posted on your forum about us are complete lies. I mentioned Scarecrow to denonstrate that all boards have morons, even yours. So what? [b]What this comes down to is bias. AW clearly has a Christian Bias.[/b] The reason AW was started was so that those who sincerely believe in prophetic fulfillment of the redemption of man can hang without the acrimony that such a belief seems to invite on other forums in these morally ambiguous and compromised times . [b]Those they believe to be Christian are held to a different standard and given more leeway. Those who they believe aren't Christian are held to a much different standard.[/b] That's your perception, and it may have some merit. But so what? If we wanted to have a different standard for people with red hair so what? You have said you don't want liberals on your site. I wonder if all of a sudden a couple of hundred flaming liberals joined your site how long it would take for a "different standard" to become apparent. [b]Full Auto also has a bias. We prefer FREEDOM to those who would prefer to have us repress "some" expression.[/b] If the Founding Fathers are to be believed, it is not possible to have freedom and liberty without virtue, morality and religion. "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity [i.e freedom and liberty], religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles." George Washington "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams "Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles." Patrick Henry
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 11:24:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Belloc: The problem is that we allow you to run your board the way you wish without constant cross forum harangues.
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"Allow"???????
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 11:54:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By Belloc: The problem is that [red]we allow you [/red] to run your board the way you wish without constant cross forum harangues.
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Paging Dr. Frued, Dr. Frued, please report to the front.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 4:03:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By Belloc: The problem is that we allow you to run your board the way you wish without constant cross forum harangues.
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"Allow"???????
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Allow: to take something into consideration. permit, agree to, consent to. Yes Rik we "take into consideration" that since they have their own standard, we do not allow threads of the attack nature about them the way they allow about us and AR-15. We don't have the power to "allow them to exist" but we can do our best to allow them to exist in peace and wish that they would allow us to exist in peace. I of course realize that you stopped sounding out the words after "allow" and had to take a breather, so the full meaning of the sentence eluded you.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 4:19:54 PM EDT
Sure Belloc, I believe you...I wouldn't bother to accuse you of being a self-involved megalomaniacal breast-beater with delusions of grandeur. Not when it's so obvious.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 7:09:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Sure Belloc, I believe you...I wouldn't bother to accuse you of being a self-involved megalomaniacal breast-beater with delusions of grandeur. Not when it's so obvious.
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OUCH! That hurt almost as much as when you called me "mean spirited" for saying that homosexuals should not be in the Boy Scouts. LOL. You know Rik, testosterone comes in pill form now. It won't give you a spine (and yes I still think you are a sniveling coward for saying the reason you post insults against me on AK-47 is because I can't respond) but it might get your knickers out of the twist they've been in apparently since you could walk.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 9:24:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Belloc: You know Rik, testosterone comes in pill form now.
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I've heard you take it orally...I always thought that was just malicious gossip though.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 9:45:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2002 9:54:19 PM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
AssaultWeb is kinda like, What the Amish would be like, if they owned Assault Weapons, and wanted to Overthrow the goverment. I've never seen a sight with more REAL WOODS. Belloc I can't tell you, what joy it gives me, knowing that with the new FBI web surfing rules, you name is on the same page as Eric Robert Rudolph, Abortion clinic bombers, and any number of other Skin Head Nazi Thugs.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 6:22:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: I've heard you take it orally...I always thought that was just malicious gossip though.
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Considering your support for all things queer, and that you are a shut-in house mom, it is not suprising that you and your "friends" talk about taking things orally. Nor should anyone be suprised that since you are a proven liar and a rather effeminate sissy, who actually calls someone "mean spirited" for opposing homosexuals in the Boy Scouts, you like to "gossip".
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 11:54:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Belloc: Considering your support for all things queer
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You're pretty queer and I've never supported you.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 12:03:43 PM EDT
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