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Posted: 4/1/2006 12:34:43 PM EDT
Wow........that is the best I can say.

I'm completely shocked and stunned after watching that film. I fail to see how anyone can claim that FLIR video is anything but 100% damming evidence of the government stink on this slaughter.

Fuck......
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:39:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 12:40:14 PM EDT by TUMOR]
Welcome to the club!

The evidence is irrefutable.

Now go get the video: WACO - A New Revelation

I predict this one will go 9 pages.

By the way.........I WAS FIRST!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:41:47 PM EDT
Glad we still have threads like this come up
every week....I need to pump my post count a little

IBTL
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:43:26 PM EDT
AGNTSA
IBTL
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:48:15 PM EDT
Is it that time of week again already?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:51:20 PM EDT
yes...yes it is.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:53:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 12:54:02 PM EDT by azhammer]
OH.... SUPER!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:54:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 12:54:40 PM EDT by roboman]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Is it that time of week again already?



Well, excuse me for not seeing it in time to contribute to the other threads.

I guess seeing Americans gassed and burnt to death by the government tends to piss me off a little bit.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:59:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 12:59:41 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

You took the red pill Roboman.
Are you ready to see just how far down the rabbit hole goes?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:03:38 PM EDT
That film is excellent proof that Chuckie Schumer is sub-human trash.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:07:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
That film is excellent proof that Chuckie Schumer is sub-human trash.



Definitely. I was so pissed watching the hearings and listening to that shitbag.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:13:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:15:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
When the Cops have tanks, you lose…

i2.tinypic.com/sq6o43.jpg



Makes a good case for citizens with RPGs, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:16:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 1:17:17 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:17:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By vito113:
When the Cops have tanks, you lose…

i2.tinypic.com/sq6o43.jpg



Makes a good case for citizens with RPGs, doesn't it?



Yup
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:18:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By vito113:
When the Cops have tanks, you lose…

i2.tinypic.com/sq6o43.jpg



Makes a good case for citizens with RPGs, doesn't it?



IMHO, there is something seriously wrong with the 'picture' when the Police can deploy heavy armour against 'civilians'…

ANdy



I though Posse Commitatus (spelling?) outlawed something like this?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:24:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roboman:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By vito113:
When the Cops have tanks, you lose…

i2.tinypic.com/sq6o43.jpg



Makes a good case for citizens with RPGs, doesn't it?



IMHO, there is something seriously wrong with the 'picture' when the Police can deploy heavy armour against 'civilians'…

ANdy



I though Posse Commitatus (spelling?) outlawed something like this?



Laws don't stop .gov from doing what they want, when they want.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:28:49 PM EDT
Now only if we could show this tape to the rest of the sheeple, get it on history channel or something. I mean come on they have UFO conspirecy theory shows on every other week, at least this is the truth.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:31:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 1:33:43 PM EDT by clement]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By vito113:
When the Cops have tanks, you lose…

i2.tinypic.com/sq6o43.jpg



Makes a good case for citizens with RPGs, doesn't it?



IMHO, there is something seriously wrong with the 'picture' when the Police can deploy heavy armour against 'civilians'…

ANdy



Does it remind you of this?

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:32:42 PM EDT
Welcome to the club, roboman. I believe I was the last one to start a "Just watched Waco...." thread and I felt just like you did. What little faith I had in the .gov to 'protect' me went down the shitter after watching those lying bastards - 'specially Schumer.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:33:20 PM EDT
I was talking to my attourny the other day about Waco, he was there, he said nothing in the media about it was anything like what actually happened there.
I couldn't figure out whos side he was on, but that's what he said.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:33:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:43:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roboman:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By vito113:
When the Cops have tanks, you lose…

i2.tinypic.com/sq6o43.jpg



Makes a good case for citizens with RPGs, doesn't it?



IMHO, there is something seriously wrong with the 'picture' when the Police can deploy heavy armour against 'civilians'…

ANdy



I though Posse Commitatus (spelling?) outlawed something like this?



The military cannot be used to enforce domestic laws (even though CAG was there.)
LE cannot use equipment borrowed from the military unless they can show that it will be used in an anti-drug raid.
What is fucked up is a) you can use tanks if it is an anti-drug raid, and b) there was never any drug connection at waco.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:46:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roboman:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Is it that time of week again already?



Well, excuse me for not seeing it in time to contribute to the other threads.

I guess seeing Americans gassed and burnt to death by the government tends to piss me off a little bit.



They died exactly the way Koresh planned for them to die.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:56:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:09:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 2:32:26 PM EDT by Real_estate_salesman]
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:10:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 2:35:55 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

The military cannot be used to enforce domestic laws (even though CAG was there.)
LE cannot use equipment borrowed from the military unless they can show that it will be used in an anti-drug raid.
What is fucked up is a) you can use tanks if it is an anti-drug raid, and b) there was never any drug connection at waco.



So if I'm reading this right, all the Feds have to do is say 'we think they have drugs' and they can deploy heavy metal against a civilian property?

… I can see the potential for abuse here…

ANdy



More or less, that's about right.
Same thing happened at Ruby Ridge.
In fact, it is estimated they spent more money surveiling Randy Weaver, than they did for the invasion of Haiti.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:13:15 PM EDT
these never end peacefully
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:34:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman: <snip>


Please edit your post to remove the slur.
It only serves to discredit any legit criticisms.


OK dickhead, I deleted it. Now WTF was wrong with it? What is your problem with what I posted????????????????????????????????????What "slur"?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:35:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 2:37:10 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman: <snip>


Please edit your post to remove the slur.
It only serves to discredit any legit criticisms.


OK dickhead, I deleted it. Now WTF was wrong with it? What is your problem with what I posted????????????????????????????????????What "slur"?



You said "pigs"
That is an excellent way to discredit this discussion.
Once you say that, the lapdogs can run out and say "SEE! SEE! Just a bunch of cop haters!"
Try and use your brain, and stick to the topic, which is waco.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:45:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By roboman:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Is it that time of week again already?



Well, excuse me for not seeing it in time to contribute to the other threads.

I guess seeing Americans gassed and burnt to death by the government tends to piss me off a little bit.



They died exactly the way Koresh planned for them to die.




Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:46:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

They died exactly the way our government planned for them to die.




Fixed.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:01:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roboman:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By roboman:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Is it that time of week again already?



Well, excuse me for not seeing it in time to contribute to the other threads.

I guess seeing Americans gassed and burnt to death by the government tends to piss me off a little bit.



They died exactly the way Koresh planned for them to die.







I agree. When you decide to let a child molesting, psychopath be your religous leader, move into a cult compound, let the leader screw your wife and 12 year old daughter, oops new wife, things tend to end badly.

The only victims in this deal were the children. Children who were not protected by the ones who were suppose to love and protect them the most, the parents.

P.S. I in no way condone the ATF's tactics in what happened to the BD's.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:07:10 PM EDT
Here's the links to the last 2 threads about Waco.

Just finished watching "Waco: Rules of Engagement

Just finished watching "Waco: The Rules Of Engagement..." OLUCKYMAN BUMP! TELL US MORE!

Interesting how the titles are the same.
The second thread is a bit long, but worth reading and surprisingly kept civil too.

IIRC the Feds lied to the military to borrow the tanks, and when the military found out about it, they were pissed off and sued?considered suing? for expenses.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:10:38 PM EDT
Funny part of that was he wasn't accused of molesting children until after the initital assault, IIRC.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:17:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By roboman:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By roboman:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Is it that time of week again already?



Well, excuse me for not seeing it in time to contribute to the other threads.

I guess seeing Americans gassed and burnt to death by the government tends to piss me off a little bit.



They died exactly the way Koresh planned for them to die.







I agree. When you decide to let a child molesting, psychopath be your religous leader, move into a cult compound, let the leader screw your wife and 12 year old daughter, oops new wife, things tend to end badly.

The only victims in this deal were the children. Children who were not protected by the ones who were suppose to love and protect them the most, the parents.

P.S. I in no way condone the ATF's tactics in what happened to the BD's.



That's pretty much exactly the way I feel.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:21:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Funny part of that was he wasn't accused of molesting children until after the initital assault, IIRC.



The whole deal was a publicity stunt by the ATF that went way wrong. To me the whole gun deal, the so called evidence etc was BS. It was all about getting the headlines. pictures of guns and ammo confiscated, people lined up in cuffs, to keep the ATF from being dismantled at the time (only potential good thing to come out of the Clinton adminstration).

But when you join a group where the leader tells a man you can no longer have sexual relations with your wife, but the leader can, puts you in seperate living quarters from your wife and children, has sex with your children. Do you really think things are going to have a happy ending?

Again Koresh had the ending he planned and executed. Better to die than to spend several years in the gray bar hotel. No little girls to have in your bed there.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:25:01 PM EDT
Don't miss WACO: A New Revelation either.


Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:17:40 PM EDT
He was accused of molesting the kids early on because the local police or sherriffs had investigated and found no proof of a crime.

The links to past discussions posted above have one of the best threads I have read on this topic, it is the 2nd one and while it is long it was a good discussion.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:21:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By biere:
He was accused of molesting the kids early on because the local police or sherriffs had investigated and found no proof of a crime.

The links to past discussions posted above have one of the best threads I have read on this topic, it is the 2nd one and while it is long it was a good discussion.




The BD's were not willing to tell the popo their Messiah was having sex with children. Ooops, I mean his wives.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:23:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By biere:
He was accused of molesting the kids early on because the local police or sherriffs had investigated and found no proof of a crime.

The links to past discussions posted above have one of the best threads I have read on this topic, it is the 2nd one and while it is long it was a good discussion.



Sooooooooooooo lets go get tanks and burn the whole fucking place down! Right?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:25:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:

Originally Posted By biere:
He was accused of molesting the kids early on because the local police or sherriffs had investigated and found no proof of a crime.

The links to past discussions posted above have one of the best threads I have read on this topic, it is the 2nd one and while it is long it was a good discussion.



Sooooooooooooo lets go get tanks and burn the whole fucking place down! Right?



Koresh burned it.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:25:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 4:26:56 PM EDT by Jimmy_Hoffa]
So now they say the kids are better off dead than being molested? WTF?

ETA: WTF does ATF have to do with child molestation anyways?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:27:25 PM EDT
Depressing, isnt it?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:27:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:
So now they say the kids are better off dead than being molested? WTF?



Your tinfoil is cutting off the circulation.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:32:25 PM EDT
I believe that former members of Koresh's group were the ones who told the local police or sheriff that he was molesting the children.

Since it was investigated and there was not enough evidence to convict koresh of a crime I don't try to read any farther into this part of the investigation that what was legally decided.



Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:33:41 PM EDT
Was it ever proven that koresh burned it down?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:37:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By biere:
Was it ever proven that koresh burned it down?



Well the tinfoil crowd wants to believe that super secret special forces trained leo's snuck in, set the place on fire and extracted.

He and his followers burned it. Of course Koresh pussed out and took one to the head so he didn't suffer the fate of his flock.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:43:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By biere:
Was it ever proven that koresh burned it down?



Well the tinfoil crowd wants to believe that super secret special forces trained leo's snuck in, set the place on fire and extracted.

He and his followers burned it. Of course Koresh pussed out and took one to the head so he didn't suffer the fate of his flock.



The protechnic tear gas rounds, flashbangs, as well as the fuel spilled by the bradleys used by the FBI in the final asault were responsible for the fire.

What I still struggle with was the intent - wether it was neglicence or willfull on the part of the FBI.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:47:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By biere:
Was it ever proven that koresh burned it down?



Well the tinfoil crowd wants to believe that super secret special forces trained leo's snuck in, set the place on fire and extracted.

He and his followers burned it. Of course Koresh pussed out and took one to the head so he didn't suffer the fate of his flock.



The protechnic tear gas rounds, flashbangs, as well as the fuel spilled by the bradleys used by the FBI in the final asault were responsible for the fire.

What I still struggle with was the intent - wether it was neglicence or willfull on the part of the FBI.




Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:54:13 PM EDT
You are welcome to laugh at that bama-shooter, but I have read opinions that say koresh started the fire and never seen proof to back it up.

I have also watched the videos and read the books that show how the tear gas and what not can easily start a fire. I have never seen proof that this caused the fire either, but I do not make fun of that which I am unable to proove or disproove.

I won't tell folks what started the fire since I have not seen proof to back up either concept. I will say both arguments have their good and bad points and basically I think it comes down to being something that will never be known.

I think the holes poked in the building show some form of intent on the part of the government. Notice I said intent, I did not say they tossed a molotave cocktail in one of the holes.
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