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Judge: Ford Can Refuse to Sell Cars to Police Suing Company

The Associated Press
Published: Sep 28, 2004

SHALIMAR, Fla. (AP) - Ford Motor Co. can refuse to sell police cars to Florida law enforcement agencies that join a lawsuit against the auto maker over fuel tank fires, a judge has ruled.

Circuit Judge G. Robert Barron denied Okaloosa County Sheriff Charlie Morris' request that he order Ford to resume selling cars to his department Monday. Ford has refused to sell any more Crown Victoria Police Interceptors to Morris since July 2003, a year after he sued.

The suit claims the full-size, V-8 powered, four-door sedans have exploded in flames when struck from behind at high speed because of poor design, in some cases killing police officers.

Barron last month granted class-action status, permitting hundreds of Florida law enforcement agencies to join the lawsuit. No deadline for potential plaintiffs to join or opt out has been set.

With Barron's ruling in hand, Ford also will refuse to sell the cars to any other agency that participates in the suit, said company lawyer David Cannella.

"It's fundamentally illogical for Sheriff Morris to, on one hand, sue us and, on the other hand, seek the court to order (Ford) to sell him more vehicles," Cannella said.

Barron said case law establishes a company's right to refuse to do business with any customer.

Cannella participated in the hearing by telephone from his Orlando office because Hurricane Jeanne made it impossible to travel by air to the Florida Panhandle.

One of Morris' attorneys, Don Barrett, has said the sheriff firmly believes the Police Interceptors are defective but he wants to buy new ones to replace aging cars because seeking other vehicles would be more costly.

Barrett acknowledged the sheriff's request for an injunction was a long shot but a chance worth taking.

"They can't bully Sheriff Mmrris out of this lawsuit and they've been spectacularly unsuccessful," Barrett said.

Since Ford refused to sell the Police Interceptors, Morris has bought Ford Explorers and may start buying Chevrolet Impalas, which meet Florida Sheriffs Association vehicle safety standards, Barrett said.

Morris' lawyers say there have been 14 accidents nationwide in which Police Interceptors caught fire after being rear-ended. Ford attorneys argue that represents only .01 percent of Police Interceptors on the road. None of Morris' cars have been involved.

Ford also has installed protective shields on the back of the rear-wheel drive cars, which have gotten five-star crash ratings from federal vehicle-safety inspectors, company lawyers say.

Victory!


How insane is it to HAVE to sell a product to someone that you will ultimately have to PAY them for having?

everyone wins no crappy fords that constantly catch on fire!

Could you imagin being pulled over in Florida by a cop in a KIA?

I could only hope that firearm manufactures refuse to sell to state agencies in California, Washington DC, Ney York etc.

One of Morris' attorneys, Don Barrett, has said the sheriff firmly believes the Police Interceptors are defective but he wants to buy new ones to replace aging cars because seeking other vehicles would be more costly.

Oh, so the lives and safety of the officers under his command aren't worth the added expense of buying a different car?  

Second point:  So he's wanting to keep buying vehicles that he believes to be defective?  Does he realize that if he does buy one, and one of his troopers gets killed because of it, that HE will probably be sued by that trooper's family??  Dumbass.  

My wife is a nurse that has worked with one officer for his 35+ surgeries after being rearended in his exploding Crown Vic.

Boycott Ford!

Quoted: One of Morris' attorneys, Don Barrett, has said the sheriff firmly believes the Police Interceptors are defective but he wants to buy new ones to replace aging cars because seeking other vehicles would be more costly. Oh, so the lives and safety of the officers under his command aren't worth the added expense of buying a different car?

Most agencies only look at the bottom line on any purchase. Any significant difference in price is grounds for simply going with whats cheapest. There really are not a lot of options. The Dodge sucks, the Chevy is too small for anything other than urban agencies.

Any car that is used in this manner will react the same if not worse then the Crown Victoria.  Cops are hard on their cars and the cars are seriously abused.  There are cruisers with 68000 miles on them and they are barely a year old.  Also once they are started they seldom are turned off except to fuel and to perform maintaninace.  When the shift is over, the next officer takes it out.  

Quoted: Most agencies only look at the bottom line on any purchase. Any significant difference in price is grounds for simply going with whats cheapest. There really are not a lot of options. The Dodge sucks, the Chevy is too small for anything other than urban agencies.

Totally true.  Ford is the only company that still makes a large body-on-frame RWD 4-door car.  The agencies can either buy a smaller FWD like a Lumina, which won't hold up under police usage, or get something like a Tahoe or an Expedition, which is more expensive.  They'll keep buying the Crown Vic even though it's a 20 year old design, because it's cheap.

Quoted: If there's a brain left in General Motors, they'll be bringing out a rear wheel drive, four door sedan of adequate size that's well suited to police service again...and SOON.

Why bother?


Have you seen how cheap they sell PD cars?

Quoted: Why bother? Have you seen how cheap they sell PD cars?

The manufacturers still make money. The relative "cheapness" is due to volume purchasing, spartan amenities in the cars themselves, and the lack of a lot of taxes that drive up the base price of a car you and I might purchase.
There are some foreign-made LEO cars that interest US officers, if they'd ever bother to import them into the US, but the limited market means thats not likely to happen.

Quoted: If there's a brain left in General Motors, they'll be bringing out a rear wheel drive, four door sedan of adequate size that's well suited to police service again...and SOON. If they don't do it,  Toyota probably will!     A strengthened, RWD Avalon or Camry would make a pretty solid competitor in that field.

Chrysler is working on having a PD spec Magnum wagon within the next year or so.  Mopar owned the police market back in the day & kept the V8 RWD Gran Fury/Diplomat assembly lines going quite a while longer even after they dropped the rwd sedans from the general civvie line up.

Quoted: The manufacturers still make money. The relative "cheapness" is due to volume purchasing, spartan amenities in the cars themselves, and the lack of a lot of taxes that drive up the base price of a car you and I might purchase..

Yes, but they can make a hell of a lot more money building SUV's

This is good.  I am sick of the sue happy band wagon.  Ford does this as a courtesy so to speak. Don't you think they can make alot more money selling SUV's?  This is the last fleet car available.  Dodge intrepids, Chevy impala's, Chevy Luminas, etc etc are NOT Police cars.  These greedy Dept better wise up or we'll be driving a second rate cruiser before long.

Oh yeah, one more thing....as far as explorers and expeditions....you wanna try a pursuit in those?  Not if you want to roll over in the process.  I love my vic...

.02

Quoted: If there's a brain left in General Motors, they'll be bringing out a rear wheel drive, four door sedan of adequate size that's well suited to police service again...and SOON. If they don't do it,  Toyota probably will!     A strengthened, RWD Avalon or Camry would make a pretty solid competitor in that field. CJ

Why would they start now ??? It has been all Ford since what -1999 ???

i heard one of the big reasons dodge was making that new hemi-station wagon thing was to compete for the LEO market.

Quoted: I could only hope that firearm manufactures refuse to sell to state agencies in California, Washington DC, Ney York etc.

Now that's a plan.

Morris' lawyers say there have been 14 accidents nationwide in which Police Interceptors caught fire after being rear-ended. Ford attorneys argue that represents only .01 percent of Police Interceptors on the road. None of Morris' cars have been involved.

So let me get this straight... He is suing Ford and NONE of his fleet were involved in any of these 14 incidents

ETA Quote

The Crown vic is the best police car available, but its fundamentally flawed.  GM has really dropped the ball.  

A fuel bladder inside the steel tank would solve this problem.

Quoted: Second point:  So he's wanting to keep buying vehicles that he believes to be defective?

The Crown Vic is the only acceptable police car on the market. Unfortunately it burns when rear ended.

Quoted: Any car that is used in this manner will react the same if not worse then the Crown Victoria.

False!  NASCAR vehicles are routinly rear ended without fuel spills and fires.  A soft fuel bladder inside a metal tank solves the problem for good, at less than $500.00 per vehicle. The only negative is the lack of a reliable fuel gauge for soft bladders. Department policy of gassing up at the start of every shift, and at the end of every shift solves that minor problem.

Quoted: The Crown vic is the best police car available, but its fundamentally flawed.  GM has really dropped the ball.   A fuel bladder inside the steel tank would solve this problem.

I think Dodge has solved the problem.

One of the news-entertainment shows did a report on lawsuits against Ford. They found that most departments suing Ford had NEVER had an incident related to the "design flaw". They apparently felt they should be compensated for driving around in "defective" cars................... Something is fundamentally dishonest about that.

The CV's could probably have a better system, fuel cell etc. But part of the problem is the cars are getting hit at very high speeds. Of course the real problem is with people hitting parked cars, with emergency lights going.....................

OUTSTANDING!  GOOD FOR FORD MOTOR COMPANY!

Ford focused in on one bolt head, that had sharp corners, that was piecing the fuel tanks in rear end collisions. They switched over to a rounded bolt head.  The article mentions some fuel tank "shielding", which none of the several thousand Crown Vics in my agency have.


We have a couple dozen Tahoes and expeditions. Often referred to as the "sarge Barge" or "winnebago"  nobody wants to drive them.  I cant imagine putting two cops and all thier gear in a Lumina or other midsized FWD vehicle.

Quoted: False!  NASCAR vehicles are routinly rear ended without fuel spills and fires.  A soft fuel bladder inside a metal tank solves the problem for good, at less than $500.00 per vehicle. The only negative is the lack of a reliable fuel gauge for soft bladders. Department policy of gassing up at the start of every shift, and at the end of every shift solves that minor problem.

I don't like the idea of not having a reliable gas gauge. I can burn a quarter of a tank going to one call at warp speed.
Going to the pumps twice in a  shift is at least  30 minutes out of an 8 hour day. Not sure I can invest that much time to simply fill up.

AR15fan, What a dumb and stoopid statement.  So you drive NASCAR and have a fuel bladder in your car?  Why dont we rearend your car at 80-100 mph and see if catches fire.  I bet it will.  No one but race cars routinely have bladders.  We are talking regular cars not race cars.  The bladder is an option you can install.  Most PDs dont have the money to buy them.

Quoted:  We are talking regular cars not race cars.

No, we are talking patrol cars, not commuter cars.  

Quoted: No one but race cars routinely have bladders.

The Toyota Prius has a bladder.

Quoted: Quoted: If there's a brain left in General Motors, they'll be bringing out a rear wheel drive, four door sedan of adequate size that's well suited to police service again...and SOON. If they don't do it,  Toyota probably will!     A strengthened, RWD Avalon or Camry would make a pretty solid competitor in that field. Chrysler is working on having a PD spec Magnum wagon within the next year or so.  Mopar owned the police market back in the day & kept the V8 RWD Gran Fury/Diplomat assembly lines going quite a while longer even after they dropped the rwd sedans from the general civvie line up.

when the new Magnum wagon & Chryslery 300 came out that was one of the fitrst things that came
to mind,  finally a domestic car with a RWD chassis (Mercedes E-class no less) that can give some competition to Ford in the police market

GM is working on making all Cadillac sedans RWD,  the CTS & now the Seville

I wonder if there will be a RWD Chevy or Pontiac in the future ??

Why not start using confiscated vehicles?  Instead of selling them at auction, they can use them.  As for Ford... good for them.   As for Morris, none of his cars have even been involved.  Sounds almost like the tobacco lawsuits.  "I'm not dead, but I'm addicted, and it's the tobacco company's fault".

I have to wonder how all those cops in Europe patrol thousands of miles of freeways, at speeds usually 15 to 30 mps faster than here, in mid size FWD cars.

WTF does a highway cop, who's 99% of the time alone, need a Crown Vic for?  And the statement that FWD cars do not survive police service is bullshit.  Cheap FWD cars do not survive rough service.  Well made ones do.

I've seen most of the crap state troopers carry in their trunk, and they could stand to lose about 70% of it.

Ford is answering the issue of rear end fires by making a fire extinguisher system in  the rear but at extra cost.

The next best thing is next years intrepid. Rear wheel drive V8! supposidly it will blow the doors off of even the old caprices.

Hey, GM! Start making something to compete!!!

The Toyota Prius has a bladder

I said routinely.  The hybrid prius is odd duck.

Quoted: I have to wonder how all those cops in Europe patrol thousands of miles of freeways, at speeds usually 15 to 30 mps faster than here, in mid size FWD cars. WTF does a highway cop, who's 99% of the time alone, need a Crown Vic for?

Patrol cars are regularly driven over or across highway medians, including raised concrete highway medians. something most FWD cars are not up to.

a patrol car must be heavy enough to PIT another vehicle. It must be powerfull enought to catch up to speeders, and push disabled vehicle frrom the roadway. Something most FWD cars are not up to.

A patrol car must have a trunk large enough to carry todays common patrol gear, which includes; A rifle, a less leathal shotgun, riot gear, hazmat gear, ambu-bag, AED, flares, Computer, Forms box, casualty blankets, first aid kit, NIK kit, Digital camera, PAS devise, Pepperball gun, spare parts, batteries, ammo, and accesories for all of the above.

Quoted: If there's a brain left in General Motors, they'll be bringing out a rear wheel drive, four door sedan of adequate size that's well suited to police service again...and SOON.

Why? There's little money to be made in police sales compared to sales overall.

If they don't do it,  Toyota probably will!     A strengthened, RWD Avalon or Camry would make a pretty solid competitor in that field.

There's a reason why both those cars are FWD.  It keeps Toyota's costs down.  Toyota wouldn't make anything doing the R&D to build a new car like that given the low margin on police vehicles.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Quoted:
One of the news-entertainment shows did a report on lawsuits against Ford. They found that most departments suing Ford had NEVER had an incident related to the "design flaw". They apparently felt they should be compensated for driving around in "defective" cars................... Something is fundamentally dishonest about that.

+1!

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Quoted: Quoted: One of the news-entertainment shows did a report on lawsuits against Ford. They found that most departments suing Ford had NEVER had an incident related to the "design flaw". They apparently felt they should be compensated for driving around in "defective" cars................... Something is fundamentally dishonest about that. +1! Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Its not about money. Its about forcing Ford to correct a design flaw they choose to ignore.

GM should have never dropped the Caprice.  The Caprice was by far better than the Crown Vic.

Quoted: GM should have never dropped the Caprice.  The Caprice was by far better than the Crown Vic.

Having driven both as a patrol car, I prefer the Crown Vic.  However GM was stupid to drop the Caprice without having a ready replacement. Chevy Dealers, Shaeen Chevrolet in Michigan is one,  are makig a good living restoring worn out Caprices and Impalas so PD's can get a few more years out of them.

Many like to speculate that there is no money to be made in Police cars. If so I wonder why GM and Ford both spend the money to advertise their cars in all the trade magazines?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the news-entertainment shows did a report on lawsuits against Ford. They found that most departments suing Ford had NEVER had an incident related to the "design flaw". They apparently felt they should be compensated for driving around in "defective" cars................... Something is fundamentally dishonest about that. +1! Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Its not about money. Its about forcing Ford to correct a design flaw they choose to ignore.

That's called a recall, and handled through the NHTSA.  It's not going to be funny if the plantiffs lose.

Remember the Alamo, and God bless Texas...

Quoted: Many like to speculate that there is no money to be made in Police cars. If so I wonder why GM and Ford both spend the money to advertise their cars in all the trade magazines?

I agree, that doesn't make mush sense at all and it's very incorrect.  Also what people fail to realize is, is that the Crown Vic has long since made back all the R&D cost associated with it's development and now when Ford sells a Crown Vic it's nothing but cake.  Also FYI about 2 or 3 years ago Ford announced that it would continue the production of the Crown Vic indefinitly.

I'm just happy to hear a judge back up my thoughts that there is no legal requirement forcing one to sell their goods to people/organizations/entities that they don't want to.

It would be damned funny if Ford just decided to entirely quit selling cars (of any models) to every single department that sues them.  Yeah, it would suck for the officer on the street, and I'm sure the LEOs here will blast me for wanting to deny them stuff they think they need.....but ya know what?  I'd still be laughing.

Quoted: Its not about money. Its about forcing Ford to correct a design flaw they choose to ignore.

It is not about a "design flaw".  The design met all applicable safety standards for rear impact collision.  The cases that are part of the lawsuits involve instances far outside normal usage.  No make of car is designed to withstand a rear impact at the speeds in these instances (50mph+).  The Crown Vic just has it happen more often due to the disproportionate numbers of it in police fleets (40% of Crown Vics are police units, about 40k annually).

Our city fathers, Indianapolis that is, saw a chance to make a buck and joined in the lawsuit.    As a result, we cannot buy new Ford Crown Victorias, one of the last full sized police cars, and we are now getting Impalas.  They suck.

Now as I understand it, they sued because the Crown Vics gas tank ruptured when it was hit from behind at almost 70 miles an hour.  That is a tremendous amount of force and I doubt any car not equipped with a special fuel cell could withstand it very well.

The Kentucky State Police are selling there used Crown Vics this Friday.  They had over 35 of them that were wrecked and non-drivable.  Not a single one of them caught on fire...including the one car that was hit so hard in the rear that the entire trunk was folded under the vehicle.  If there was a design flaw that made the Crown Vic burst into flames anytime it was hit in the rear then half of these vehicles should have burned.  The lawsuits are nothing but police agencies with tight budgets trying to get something for free.  Good job Ford.

Quoted: I have to wonder how all those cops in Europe patrol thousands of miles of freeways, at speeds usually 15 to 30 mps faster than here, in mid size FWD cars. WTF does a highway cop, who's 99% of the time alone, need a Crown Vic for?  And the statement that FWD cars do not survive police service is bullshit.  Cheap FWD cars do not survive rough service.  Well made ones do. I've seen most of the crap state troopers carry in their trunk, and they could stand to lose about 70% of it.

1) Many Eurpoean nation used AWD and RWD cars, Volvo police cars are AWD, Porsche, Mercedes, BWM, are also used as police cars. Generally FWD is better for lower speed areas, city/suburban RWD/AWD is better for rural/highway

Next, most European nations do things different than the US, fewer computers, video cameras, and warning lights. They take driving more serious over there, people are EXPECTED to be looking around for emergency vehicles, so one bubble light is considered enough......... Over here, with cell phones, loud stereos, eating drive through food, it's the police's fault when they aren't seen.

Most European nations also don't make police officers responsible for first aid, and carrying the AED's.

Europeans also believe LESS in preventative patrol. They tend to hang out at a sub-station until they are summoned.

2) Because a "highway patrol cop" in the middle of nowhere, needs enough gear to survive the 15-45 minutes it will take back, EMS, or FD to get to where he is.

Next, CV's seem mighty small when you are handcuffed and put in the back of it. A smaller vehicle would present real trouble in getting prisoners in and out.

The vehicle also has to have room for a cage, computer, long gun mount, various paperwork etc. Not to mention AED, Ox, first aid gear, evidence supplies, teddy bears, computers, modems, radios, radar, traffic flares, NBC suits, etc. etc.

As it is now we put in 2-3 batteries/altenators per car in 125,000 miles, appx 18 months. If you put all that gear, much of it MANDATED, many small-medium cars get seriously overweight.................which can be a real problem performance wise especially at speed.

3) Yup, all of it is extra weight, until you need it, and when you need it you need it NOW.


As to FWD holding up to police work..................... I got news, we blow the transmission out of the CV's regularly. We aren't supposed to ever use the overdrive because it tends to grenade.

I was talking to the mechanic who services our CV's, about vehicle maint the other day. WI-State Patrol went to Impalas for a few years. Thier cars last about 6 years, so 30% or so of their fleet was Impalas. They were constantly going in for front end repairs, alignments, transmission, and CV problems. The mechanic said the guy servicing the Impalas was going through 6 "half shafts" per week repairing FWD's. He would only have a very small % of the WSP fleet getting serviced at his shop.

The Impala transmission was supposedly designed and field tested in Sweden. Under Swedish police cars. It took years to get it to last over there. Apparently the conditions here are tougher.

The Impala has a serious high speed handling deficit when compared to the CV. Think about that the CV, which is no prize itself, is markedly better than the Impala at highway speeds and up.

I was assisting with in-service training for 400+ officers, that's 20-30 sessions of Emerg. Veh. Ops., and High Risk Traffic Stops. I was the guy putting up the cones, and making sure th cars were gassed, had tires with treads etc. I had 4 CV's and 1 Impala. I spent as much time on the Impala keeping it ship-shape as I did on the 4 CV's collectivley.

Next, in most of Europe you will find that PD's have a variety of cars. They have vehicles, high performance vehicles to do "highway patrol" In Denmark officers can work up to Porshe 911's as highway patrol vehicles. Germans use 5 series BMW's, or better. So looking at the low end cars the police use in Europe and saying that's what we should do here................................isn't accurate unless you want some of the police vehicles here to be Vipers.

European police use much more specialized vehicles for different tasks. US police generally use a "jack-of-all trades" vehicle, for divergent tasks.