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Posted: 8/25/2015 5:56:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 5:57:16 PM EDT by Kuraki]
Oshkosh Truck

Previous discussion http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1689073_defense_contractors_bid_on_new_JLTV___Joint_Light_Tactical_Vehicle___23_000_000_000_00.html&page=4

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/industry/2015/08/25/oshkosh-wins-jltv-award/32278319/

WASHINGTON — The US Army, in its largest contract award in years, selected Oshkosh to build its Humvee replacement, the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV), the Army announced Tuesday.

Oshkosh beat out Humvee-maker AM General and defense titan Lockheed Martin to walk away with a $6.7 billion contract in low rate initial production, for a program estimated to be worth $30 billion through 2024. Three years of low-rate initial production and five years of full-rate production, are set to produce a total of 49,100 for the Army and 5,500 for the Marine Corps.
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Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:09:09 PM EDT




Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:12:01 PM EDT
Oshkosh designated the L-ATV.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_L-ATV
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:13:38 PM EDT
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:16:23 PM EDT
yay job security
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:18:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.
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You had some time in M-ATVs didn't you?  What did you think of them?
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:19:17 PM EDT
So the army and marines got together to build a bro dozer?





Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:20:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.
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or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:20:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
So the army and marines got together to build a bro dozer?
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You're thinking of MRAPs
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:21:00 PM EDT
I want one for a hunting truck.

Let's take the doors off and have at it
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:21:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FDC:



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.
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Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.


I was under the impression they were going to continue to use HMMVs where armor was not required.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:22:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 6:24:37 PM EDT by doc_Zox]
Johnstown PA was hoping for the lockheed factory
 
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:22:52 PM EDT
That's a nice contract for the winner
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:24:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.
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Upgrades!
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:24:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kuraki:


I was under the impression they were going to continue to use HMMVs where armor was not required.
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Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.


I was under the impression they were going to continue to use HMMVs where armor was not required.



Armored HMMWV are popping up all over the place when nobody wants or needs them.  In some cases they cause more problems than they possibly solve.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:26:00 PM EDT
Did they plan out space for the sincgars, harris, bft, and all the other doodads, or will we be cramming everything in all willy nilly?
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:26:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 6:27:57 PM EDT by skinny79]
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Originally Posted By FDC:



Armored HMMWV are popping up all over the place when nobody wants or needs them.  In some cases they cause more problems than they possibly solve.
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Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.


I was under the impression they were going to continue to use HMMVs where armor was not required.



Armored HMMWV are popping up all over the place when nobody wants or needs them.  In some cases they cause more problems than they possibly solve.

And my favorite:
LTAS ALL THE THINGS!!!

ETA: Of course I don't mind the AC.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:27:39 PM EDT
Maneuverability > armor
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:28:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FDC:



Armored HMMWV are popping up all over the place when nobody wants or needs them.  In some cases they cause more problems than they possibly solve.
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Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.


I was under the impression they were going to continue to use HMMVs where armor was not required.



Armored HMMWV are popping up all over the place when nobody wants or needs them.  In some cases they cause more problems than they possibly solve.


Right, I get that.  I was referring to unarmored versions.  I don't have any idea how vehicle use doctrine works but roughly speaking, unarmored HMMWVs to act as pickup trucks moving things or people and JLTV for "outside the wire" so to speak.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:28:03 PM EDT
Saw one on the back of a flat bed on I 94...
B A as hell.  
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:30:51 PM EDT


Those are cool as hell , would love to have one
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:32:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Maneuverability > armor
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Wasn't that the entire point of the project?  And the M-ATV in Afghanistan?  I have a feeling the suspension proven out by the M-ATV was a big part of Oshkosh winning with the L-ATV.  Supposedly same level of protection as the M at half the weight.  Should be quite maneuverable compared to Ms or MRAPs.

I would think a big concern for end users would be the lack of visibility (any of them).
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:33:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 6:37:46 PM EDT by daemon734]
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Originally Posted By Kuraki:


You had some time in M-ATVs didn't you?  What did you think of them?
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Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.


You had some time in M-ATVs didn't you?  What did you think of them?



Thats the problem with every one of these vehicles, a catastrophic kill or two and everyone shuns them.  The MATV is awesome for what it was, a humvee direct replacement.  But people can't get the term MRAP out of their heads and think that they are all unbreachable and indestructible platforms.   If the enemy puts 80-100lbs in the road they type of vehicle you are riding in doesnt really matter at that point, its all going to turn to dust regardless.

Everybody wants to hide in some land battleship which actually makes them easier to target and kill, do to severely decreased route selection and maneuverability.

Originally Posted By Kuraki:

I was under the impression they were going to continue to use HMMVs where armor was not required.



Humvees havent been allowed outside the wire in theater for several years.


Originally Posted By Kuraki:
 Should be quite maneuverable compared to Ms or MRAPs.



The M-ATV is an MRAP.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:41:42 PM EDT
Now the radio ads will stop, thank god.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:42:11 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By FDC:



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.
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That is why they are already using utv's...  (about the size of an old jeep, but more expensive).



 
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:45:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 6:46:09 PM EDT by daemon734]
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Originally Posted By mousehunter:
That is why they are already using utv's...  (about the size of an old jeep, but more expensive).
 
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Originally Posted By mousehunter:
Originally Posted By FDC:

or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.
That is why they are already using utv's...  (about the size of an old jeep, but more expensive).
 



Very, very small numbers with SOF only, and its a huge PITA to get authorization to use them outside the wire.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:47:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By apierce918:
yay job security
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Yay lay offs :(
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:47:59 PM EDT
I'll take two.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:49:06 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:


Maneuverability > armor
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how does maneuverability help protect against an IED or direct fire?  



 
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:50:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.
View Quote


Yep.  30 Billion dollars and the first time somebody dies in one it'll be headed for the boneyard.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:52:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mcantu:


how does maneuverability help protect against an IED or direct fire?  
 
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Originally Posted By mcantu:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Maneuverability > armor


how does maneuverability help protect against an IED or direct fire?  
 



Not being reliant on using the only hardball in the entire province, for starters.   You cant mine an entire country, but only being able to use 2-3 routes helps a bit with enemy target selection.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:56:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By daemon734:



Thats the problem with every one of these vehicles, a catastrophic kill or two and everyone shuns them.  The MATV is awesome for what it was, a humvee direct replacement.  But people can't get the term MRAP out of their heads and think that they are all unbreachable and indestructible platforms.   If the enemy puts 80-100lbs in the road they type of vehicle you are riding in doesnt really matter at that point, its all going to turn to dust regardless.

Everybody wants to hide in some land battleship which actually makes them easier to target and kill, do to severely decreased route selection and maneuverability.




Humvees havent been allowed outside the wire in theater for several years.


.
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Originally Posted By daemon734:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.


You had some time in M-ATVs didn't you?  What did you think of them?



Thats the problem with every one of these vehicles, a catastrophic kill or two and everyone shuns them.  The MATV is awesome for what it was, a humvee direct replacement.  But people can't get the term MRAP out of their heads and think that they are all unbreachable and indestructible platforms.   If the enemy puts 80-100lbs in the road they type of vehicle you are riding in doesnt really matter at that point, its all going to turn to dust regardless.

Everybody wants to hide in some land battleship which actually makes them easier to target and kill, do to severely decreased route selection and maneuverability.

Originally Posted By Kuraki:

I was under the impression they were going to continue to use HMMVs where armor was not required.



Humvees havent been allowed outside the wire in theater for several years.


.



Thanks.




The M-ATV is an MRAP


Is this just vernacular confusion on my part?  I'm referring to the difference between the two vehicles below, and the poor off road capabilities of the first leading to the development of the second.

MRAP (BAE)


M-ATV or MRAP Lite (OSK)
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 6:58:46 PM EDT
MRAP is a class of vehicles.  There are 10-12 of them at least.

The top one is a Category 2 MRAP named Caiman.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 7:06:02 PM EDT
Ah, thanks again.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 7:27:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 7:28:24 PM EDT by FDC]
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Originally Posted By daemon734:



Very, very small numbers with SOF only, and its a huge PITA to get authorization to use them outside the wire.
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Originally Posted By daemon734:
Originally Posted By mousehunter:
Originally Posted By FDC:

or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.
That is why they are already using utv's...  (about the size of an old jeep, but more expensive).
 



Very, very small numbers with SOF only, and its a huge PITA to get authorization to use them outside the wire.


Like the MRAZR?  We have a test company of them.  Neat toys with a lot of capability and maintenance issues.  Nowhere near a HMMWV replacement.  

What a lot of people(not you) think of when they think HMMWV replacement is replacing the 1114/1151 type vehicles that became popular recently.  

Those are actually needed in lesser numbers than other variants.  Still needed are things like ambulances, C2 vehicles, maintenance vehicles, and near and dear to me howitzer prime movers which must be able to be transported in a wide variety of ways to include via air(mainly via RW, but occasionally via FW or parachute).
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 7:29:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By doc_Zox:
Johnstown PA was hoping for the lockheed factory  
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Yup, my brother works for that company. Just texted him to see if he got word yet.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 7:50:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mcantu:


how does maneuverability help protect against an IED or direct fire?  
 
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Originally Posted By mcantu:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Maneuverability > armor


how does maneuverability help protect against an IED or direct fire?  
 


Greater route selection, manuverabilty, and speed means they are harder to target.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:01:55 PM EDT
I'll take one!
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:09:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FDC:



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.
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Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.


The L-ATV is fully compliant with the US Army's Long Term Armor Strategy (LTAS). LTAS is based around the A-kit/B-kit modular armour principle. The A-kit, which is installed during build, is primarily fixings for add-on armour but can include small amounts of armour fitted in difficult-to-reach areas. The B-kit is essentially the add-on armour, this added when required and as a modular add-on. According to the US Army, the A-kit/B-kit concept allows the Army flexibility in several areas: the armor B-kit can be taken off when not needed -- reducing unnecessary wear and tear on the vehicles; the Army can continue to pursue upgrades in armor protection -- adapting B-kits to match the threat; and the versatility of the B-kit enables the transfer of armor from unit to unit -- makes armor requirements affordable by pooling assets versus buying armor that is only for one vehicle.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_L-ATV#cite_note-9
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:36:32 PM EDT
They just copied the technical from Spacehunter
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:37:06 PM EDT
They just copied the technical from Spacehunter
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:38:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 9:05:55 PM EDT by FDC]
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Originally Posted By JBT:


The L-ATV is fully compliant with the US Army's Long Term Armor Strategy (LTAS). LTAS is based around the A-kit/B-kit modular armour principle. The A-kit, which is installed during build, is primarily fixings for add-on armour but can include small amounts of armour fitted in difficult-to-reach areas. The B-kit is essentially the add-on armour, this added when required and as a modular add-on. According to the US Army, the A-kit/B-kit concept allows the Army flexibility in several areas: the armor B-kit can be taken off when not needed -- reducing unnecessary wear and tear on the vehicles; the Army can continue to pursue upgrades in armor protection -- adapting B-kits to match the threat; and the versatility of the B-kit enables the transfer of armor from unit to unit -- makes armor requirements affordable by pooling assets versus buying armor that is only for one vehicle.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_L-ATV#cite_note-9
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Originally Posted By JBT:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.



or when they realize that not every 4 wheeled doohickey we have has to have armor.


The L-ATV is fully compliant with the US Army's Long Term Armor Strategy (LTAS). LTAS is based around the A-kit/B-kit modular armour principle. The A-kit, which is installed during build, is primarily fixings for add-on armour but can include small amounts of armour fitted in difficult-to-reach areas. The B-kit is essentially the add-on armour, this added when required and as a modular add-on. According to the US Army, the A-kit/B-kit concept allows the Army flexibility in several areas: the armor B-kit can be taken off when not needed -- reducing unnecessary wear and tear on the vehicles; the Army can continue to pursue upgrades in armor protection -- adapting B-kits to match the threat; and the versatility of the B-kit enables the transfer of armor from unit to unit -- makes armor requirements affordable by pooling assets versus buying armor that is only for one vehicle.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_L-ATV#cite_note-9


Still just replaces a small requirement.  Think MP companies, D Co vehicles, mounted reconnaissance troop vehicles, etc.  I bet the lighter units try to retain their older and lighter vehicles long after these are fielded.  While it is likely a good upgrade to something that needs upgrading, it is hardly an overall HMMWV replacement.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:49:18 PM EDT
And LED lighting!
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:54:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By slimslade:
And LED lighting!
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Absolutely the most important part.

Gotta look good when trying to lock down the mall.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:57:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 8:59:01 PM EDT by lostnswv]
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Originally Posted By mcantu:


how does maneuverability help protect against an IED or direct fire?  
 
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Originally Posted By mcantu:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Maneuverability > armor


how does maneuverability help protect against an IED or direct fire?  
 


By being somewhere else or off the IED laden road because the vehicle is not loaded down with hundreds of pounds of armor and capable of using different route, or being able to move faster. Just the guess from a total amateur.

Edit the professionals answered it better.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 8:59:50 PM EDT
I see a lot of grunts getting ran over in the future. It looks to have poor visibility in the cockpit.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 9:04:57 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Yep.  30 Billion dollars and the first time somebody dies in one it'll be headed for the boneyard.
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Originally Posted By Chairborne:



Originally Posted By daemon734:

Everybody is going to hate it and it will be scrapped after reaching full production because it can't take 600lbs NEW to the underbelly.




Yep.  30 Billion dollars and the first time somebody dies in one it'll be headed for the boneyard.




 
Maybe we'll put one up against a tank company.  If it gets killed, we'll only use them at night.  




Sound good?
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 9:05:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By thehellbringer:
I see a lot of grunts getting ran over in the future. It looks to have poor visibility in the cockpit.
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Very few vehicles in or near an infantry battalion.  TWAT has skewed a lot of people's view on how/what the average unit does.  

FWIW, the most recent(as far as I know) fatality is due to some dumbass(assisted by his even more retarded ground guide) in an MATV backing over a dude sleeping in a cot.  Not many cots in infantry battalions either.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 9:05:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2015 9:06:48 PM EDT by Pegasus6]


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Originally Posted By thehellbringer:



I see a lot of grunts getting ran over in the future. It looks to have poor visibility in the cockpit.
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Ground guide where applicable...and preferably not over people.


 
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 9:16:41 PM EDT







put these mofos back in service! can anybody direct me to the warehouse they are stored at?


Link Posted: 8/25/2015 10:06:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By winddummy82:
http://olive-drab.com/images/id_m274_full.jpg





put these mofos back in service! can anybody direct me to the warehouse they are stored at?


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One of these days I'm going to build one of those.  On tracks.  
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