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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 2/3/2006 3:50:37 AM EDT
A few months ago, some ARFCOMmer was ranting about a rumor of a story in which he claimed that some (multiple expletives) Muslim type was indicted on sexual abuse for a photo in which the man supposedly had his son's penis in his mouth.



Of course, the thread quickly filled up with multiculturally tolerant and sensitive ARFCOMmers ranting about savages and perverts and so on, with the usual name-calling against Islamic types and their alleged proclivities regarding young boys and sheep.

But what's especially humorous about that rumor the guy was spreading is that this apparently REALLY IS a Jewish custom:

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060202/ap_on_he_me/circumcision_ritual&printer=1

Circumcision Rite Causes Stir in N.Y.

By DAVID B. CARUSO, Associated Press Writer 15 minutes ago

For thousands of years, rabbis performed a simple procedure to cleanse the wound during a ritual circumcision: Like outdoorsmen treating a snake bite, they sucked blood from the cut and spit it out.

That age-old procedure is now the subject of a clash between religion and science in modern-day New York.

Prompted by a child's death from an infection, the state Health Department is drawing up its first set of safety guidelines governing the practice, which was abandoned by most Jews long ago but has survived among the ultra-Orthodox in a few Hasidic communities.

Doctors have long been concerned that the procedure - called "metzitzah b'peh" in Hebrew - could spread disease. But their argument became urgent last year when New York City health officials said the practice had given a baby a fatal infection.

The illness was caused by herpes simplex type 1, the common virus in saliva that causes cold sores. Usually harmless to adults, it can be deadly to newborns.

The death was believed to be the first in the United States to be associated with metzitzah b'peh, but the city said it had linked four other herpes infections since 1988 to two mohels, as those who perform ritual circumcisions are called. Two more cases were reported in 2005, including one in which a child suffered brain damage.

Efforts to curtail the practice have met with resistance from some Hasidic leaders, who say the act is commanded by Jewish law. They threatened protests after the city's health commissioner recommended that infants not undergo the procedure.


The state guidelines will stop short of a ban but will include voluntary precautions that could reduce the chances of infection during a bris, as a ritual circumcision is called, said state Health Department spokesman Robert Kenny.

Rabbis will probably be asked to inform their congregations about the risks, and parents will be advised to seek prompt care from a pediatrician if their baby develops a fever or rash. Steps will also be taken to "ensure that mohels have full knowledge of their health status" before performing the ritual, Kenny said.

He declined to discuss details, saying the guidelines were still being developed. But several religious leaders have suggested that mohels be asked to rinse their mouths with alcohol, undergo regular testing for disease and refrain from doing circumcisions if they have a cold sore.

The guidelines are likely to displease some doctors.

Dr. Jonathan M. Zenilman, a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in Baltimore, said that while infections have been rare, the potential for harm is substantial enough to justify a ban.

"This is something that is pretty much counter to all of the infection-control measures that we have," Zenilman said.


Asking mohels (the word is usually pronounced MOY-il) to police themselves could be ineffective, he warned. As many as 70 percent of all adults have herpes simplex 1, and it is difficult to detect periods when the virus is contagious.

It is unclear how the Hasidic community will react to the guidelines.

Rabbi David Niederman of the United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg, a Brooklyn neighborhood with a large number of ultra-Orthodox Jews, has argued for no government action, saying there is too little medical evidence to justify a public warning about a ritual performed safely thousands of times a year.

"Parents have been alarmed unnecessarily," he said, adding that he has received calls from worried mothers.

"We are not fanatics," Niederman said. "If there is evidence that this practice is not safe, we will not do it. We will be the first ones to act. That is embodied in the same Torah that tells us to make a bris for a child."

Rabbi J. David Bleich, a professor of both Jewish and secular law at Yeshiva University, said the debate over metzitzah b'peh began in Europe during the mid-19th century, when suspicion arose that it was spreading tuberculosis. Ever since, there has been disagreement over whether the practice was required under Jewish law or simply recommended for medical reasons.

A majority of Reform and modern Orthodox mohels decided it was recommended, and now clean a circumcision wound with sterile gauze, a sponge or a glass tube.

But a century and a half of debate has not resolved the argument, and Bleich suggested that actions by health authorities would not settle the issue either.

"Whatever changes are going to come are not going to come because of government pressure," he said. "If you want to change the way rabbis are doing things, the way to do it isn't to threaten them."


So, let's hear all the comments about the (expletives deleted) yarmulke-wearers, O multiculturally-tolerant (except for Islamic types) ARFCOMmers!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:55:38 AM EDT
Yours has more to it though. So I am NOT calling dupe....

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=433647
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:58:23 AM EDT
i think there's a diff between a religious practice and sexual gratification, muzz or jew. i never saw the muzz pic in question so i can't comment on it.

i think this jewish practice is bizarre and outdated and should be outlawed. it has no place in the 21st century when there are better medical alternatives. sure doesn't mean i'm anti-semetic though!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:59:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 4:00:02 AM EDT by Barrelburner]
never mind
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:15:54 AM EDT
So, let's hear all the comments about the (expletives deleted) yarmulke-wearers, O multiculturally-tolerant (except for Islamic types) ARFCOMmers

Yawn.

Let me know when the Jews start flying airplanes into buildings, cutting off the heads off of hostages, blowing up daycare centers, and calling for the destruction of other sovereign nations.

Then I will start making generalized bashing comments about another bunch of religious wackos.

Until then, well, a quaint, rare, bizarre practice of one sect of Judaism looks like small potatoes.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:22:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:27:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Yours has more to it though. So I am NOT calling dupe....

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=433647



(Multiple topics on important issues or discussions are acceptable,





Tht must be painful for you to say.

(j/k )

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:48:00 AM EDT
<----Not Jewish but wife is. My 2 sons both had a briss (circumcision) and a can tell you if the Rabbi had placed either of there wee wee's in his mouth my fist would have been right behind it. Seeing as he left with all his teeth in tacked I would then assume that this is only a hasidic Jew practice.
All religious extremist are fruitcakes ,doesn't matter what the religion is. But what makes Islamic goof balls so loathed is Christian extremist, Hasidic Jews, Hari Krishna's, pagans, hell even satanist don't hijack planes or kill thousands of people or behead hostages or call for the death of an author because he wrote a book you don't like or call for the destruction of countries that don't agree with your psychotic religion or etc... The list goes on.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:51:11 AM EDT
BOYCOTT PREPUCE
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:53:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Yours has more to it though. So I am NOT calling dupe....

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=433647



(Multiple topics on important issues or discussions are acceptable,



Thats why i said im NOT calling dupe. This one has more content. Was just sharing the other....

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:37:31 AM EDT
The resident terrorist apologist are reaching.
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