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Posted: 6/17/2014 10:37:07 AM EDT
We are considering using the APG runway analysis tool that Fltplan.com offers.

We are flying an Encore+ and the hot and high performance is a little lacking.
Does a Runway Analysis really help with getting out of places with steep climb requirements.

APG sent me a sample analysis for KELP but it only seems to give an alternate climb procedure.

I'm sure I'm missing something.

So how do you guys use this tool?
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 5:10:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 5:12:00 PM EDT by chadjetlag]
We use the FLtplan.com program. It works good with ipads in the cockpit. It doesn't really help beyond the aircrafts limits. It helps us use those limits to the fullest.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 6:26:22 PM EDT
Our 135 certificate requires an analysis for...

-any takeoff greater than 19,000 lbs
-any takeoff higher than 4000' elevation
-when visibility is below 3/4 mile

APG is approved for this and yes, the departure procedure may range from simple to complex and may differ from the assigned SID but an emergency is an emergency. Be ready to fly the alternate (APG) plan if an engine quits.

APG data is tailored to provide the highest takeoff weight possible to still clear obstacles by the slimmest margins...

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 6:50:39 AM EDT
So you fly the APG generated DP and not the published DP?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 6:13:57 PM EDT
APG is for emergency procedures (single engine) only. If both engines are working, fly the DP or assigned SID. If an engine fails, revert to the APG procedures. Yeah, brief that before takeoff! The advantage is that APG can conviently give the pilot the max weight allowable (based on temp/wind/runway slope etc.) for the particular runway. Figuring all of that out with the AFM could take longer than the flight itself!

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EMSflyer:
So you fly the APG generated DP and not the published DP?
View Quote

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 6:23:25 PM EDT
Back your original question of why to use APG.

-may be required for Pt 135 Ops in certain situations. Who is really capable of privatley, geographically analizing the required runways?
-may allow higher takeoff weights (more fuel on board) than the stated climb requirements (ie. "this SID requires a climb of 800 fpnm to 6000 feet")

Why the difference? As I understand it, APG data narrows the departure corridor dimensions to clear obstacles. Thus, you can take off heavier but you must navigate your single-engine with great lateral precision...
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 7:09:17 PM EDT
Ah ha !!

Now I understand and thanks so much.

I will work on getting us set up with the Fltplan.com version
of APGs runway analysis tool.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 7:55:45 AM EDT
We use APG as well. Love it.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 9:03:04 PM EDT
I use APG for our Bravo. We utilize short fields regularly.
Link Posted: 6/20/2014 6:44:46 AM EDT
Let me add my .02....

As was mentioned before, you'd better brief this before you do it AND you'd better get it figured out (how to set it up) before you do it.

Next time you're in the sim you'll want to do some work on this. Lots of ways to skin a cat. Don't know what the Encore + has in it FMS wise, but in the 4000 with Epic Primus the ideal way (read - the way Pickle would do it ) is to split the FMS units into initiated transfer with the filed route and cleared SID or DP in the PF box, and the APG engine out procedure in the PM box. If you pop one at V1 and need the APG, the PM can send the APG over to the PF. Once you're under way and above all the rocks and nothing quit, synch 'em back up. Which leads me to my next point. SAVE YOUR F-ING FLIGHT PLANS!!!! I sure do love it when someone synchs the boxes the wrong direction and then nobody knows where the machine is headed.

Anyway - this APG (or other similar type of airport analysis) is an amazingly wonderful tool but you want to be fully spooled up on how to use it before you actually need it. In other words - sim training AND in house company training on how you want it done.

Link Posted: 6/20/2014 11:32:34 AM EDT
The Encore+ has an FMS 3000 and a Garmin 500W.

So we could load the APG procedure in the Garmin perhaps.

The sim we use is set up the same way.

Thanks for the insight.

You guys are the best !!
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