Was thinking of buying a Jeep Wrangler soon and was wondering what you guys think. I was leaning towards the hardtop version for some added security. Just incase I wanted to lock a gun inside. I am not looking to drop 30,000 on a vehicle and it seems to be a nice alternative, it has a back seat and 4 wheel drive and lots of possible up grades. Anyway, what are your thoughts?

No.  Thing is a Mopar and that tears it for me!

I wouldn't buy an American car as they now stand, but of the American car manufacturers, Chrystler is the LAST one I'd ever consider buying from.

You want a TON of problems, go buy yourself one.  I don't remember one neighbor or friend that couldn't wait to get rid of theirs.  

Well, how about some alternate choices. With equal versatility and cost. Toyota P/u is nice but space is limited.

NO, I'd get a Toyota or a Honda first. Sorry, but Jeep has some engineered in problems waiting to happen.

I loved mine!! I had a 95 wrangler, no problems what so ever. Very fun to off-road with.

Definetly buy the hard top, or better yet buy the dual top, you get both tops that way. If you buy just the softop you will be wanting that hard top when it's cold and you would actually want to carry on a conversation with your passengers without screaming at the top of you lungs to be heard. It's much cheaper to get the hardtop standard than to drop $2500 on a quality aftermarket top later on.

My sister in law has a 98 wrangler and hers has been reliable too. If fact I know alot of people who have wranglers with no problems.
I now drive a cherokee and the wife drives a 2000 grand cherokee. Both have been reliable as well.

Don't forget to check out the Jeep Liberty, I didn't think it would worthy of replacing the cherokee line. I was very wrong after test driving one. You can find a new one with moderate features for under $20K. You can find new wranglers for $15k.

It's a jeep thing, you WOULDN'T understand!!

This is a hard question for me. My family has had three Jeeps - a Cherokee, a Wrangler, and a Grand Cherokee - over the past ten years and they are probably the most enjoyable vehicles I have ever driven. We bought the Cherokee used with 50,000 miles on it and drove it without a problem to 140,000 and sold it. We also bought the Wrangler used and kept it only about a year and a half. My dad drove it at first and then when I turned 16 got it for a year, before my mom freaked out about the Consumer Reports safety rating on it and got rid of it (to this day I still can't belive that one, I loved that thing). Safety was the only problem with that one. My dad bought a new 97 Grand Cherokee, that they still have. The biggest problems with that have been electrical. The radio fried out very early, yet the Jeep dealership kept lollygagging around and didn't want to replace it. After four years of bickering back and forth, they finally bought him an aftermarket radio that is much much better than the factory system. That is the biggest problem with Jeep now - when something does go wrong you have to fight with them about getting it fixed.

So to answer your question, yeah, I probably would buy a Jeep Wrangler. I would just do some research and check to see how the dealership treats people. I wish I still had that old Wrangler of mine. I figure one the first "me" things I am going to purchase when I can afford to will be one, unless I can afford to get a really nice truck instead. I have my eye on an F-250 with the 6.0.

Who would bicker and argue for 4 years over a $100 AM/FM Cassette?  I couldn't stand driving any vehicle daily for 4 years without at least a AM/FM radio.

Most people that own Jeep products are very happy with them.  I have owned 2 and couldn't be much happier.  They aren't for everyone of course.  If you don't appreciate Jeep, you have no business owning one!

If ya want something for off-roading, look around for a CJ, or even (much) better----a Toyota FJ40 land cruiser.

Hmmm, I bet this thread get hot fast.

For the moment, I will ASSume that we are talking about a new Wrangler. That would be the TJ. My experience with TJ's is very positive. I've been through several.

From the top: The 4.0 I-6 is a great engine that has proven reliable. No problem there, right?

The AX-15 (manual) tranny is again a proven unit. I've wheeled Jeeps with 33's and this tranny hard and not broken. The only downside is no granny low. For stock setups its plenty robust.

NV231 T-case. Again fine for stock. Needs some help for serious wheeling. Most obvious week link is the rear slip-yoke which means that all fluid will drain out if you drop your driveshaft.

Axles a problem? Nope. Dana 30 & 35. But plenty of (relatively) cheap upgrades available if there is a problem. Even the damn center disconnect seems to hold together.

What the heck else is there to worry about?

My experience is that the TJ rides nice for such a short WB vehicle and that they hold together really well even under pretty hard abuse.

The beauty of a Jeep is that there is TONS of available accessories and a huge knowledge base of what works.

Toyotas definitely work all the time, every time and you can't even compare build quality. But really apples and oranges.

-Z

A built CJ is better than a built TJ for off-roading???[%|]

The TJ is a 97 to present jeep wrangler. These have coil spring suspension vs. the CJ's leaf springs. If you want a capable rig out of the box the tj has alot more flex, thats why the serious CJ's used in competion have been converted to coil suspension at a grat cost.  Don't get me wrong I love the nestalga of a CJ but i'd take a TJ over it any day of the week for comfort, reliability and off-road prowess.

You kinda havta be a jeep person to understand them...You may want to consider a Liberty instead, if you want to stay jeep.

I own a 2002 wrangler (again..had an older one that I sold years ago, which I never should have), and I'll be up front, there are some issues:

Cons:

They're starting to become more Daimler than Chrysler. Buy soon, if you're going to buy...or, buy a used one.

Even with the hardtop, they're noisy. Hardtops help a lot, but...in the end, they're still noisy.

If you want security, make SURE it's a hardtop. The cheeseball door locks are..well, cheeseball. If you get a jeep with the sentry key security in it, even better, but that's no guarantee someone won't find a way in. Especially if you forget to lock the tailgate (which a lot of people do)

If you get the 6cyl, you'll have traction for shit in the rain, especially if you're trying to get up and go quickly. Remember, that's near 200hp in that little thing, with a light rear end, and an engine that makes some %92 of it's torque *at idle*. 4wd fixes that, but still. You wanna save that for non-pavement situations, mostly.

Be careful of the ABS. It limits some powertrain options...and it's not recommended you have it, if you're actually going to use it off-road.

Brakes are discs in front and drums in rear. Plan braking manuvers accordingly.

Some pros, though:

almost frightening cargo space in that small thing, if you take out the rear seat. I moved out of college, the whole thing, in one go, with my old wrangler. Rugs, computers, tv, everything. Stuffed it in.

A turning radius you will freak out a dog with. This can be good or bad; if you overcompensate, well...you get the idea :)

Obviously, 4wd. This is most handy.

It takes regular gas. Ok, this may not matter much to you, but it mattered to me; my previous vehicle was a 2001 Durango R/T, which required premium. $40/fill, 2x a week. Do the math. Now it's $15/fill, 2x a week. I'm happy.

They look nice. To me, anyway.

They're a convertable if you want them to be. Just lift off the hardtop, and enjoy summer. It's most excellent. If you don't feel like sticking the hardtop back on yet, put back on the softtop. As long as you keep the inside of the car clean, there won't be much a temptation for someone to unzip or slash a window, and get in. I don't know too many people who live in civilized areas who've had their jeeps slashed or opened...jeeps aren't exactily hot-ticket items. (I'm still trying to understand why some people stuff $5k sound systems into a noisy windbox like a jeep, but whatever [:)])

Basically, what are you lookin for? A Liberty is roughly the same price as a wrangler, it's got a normal body on it, it's 4wd abilities are roughly as good (hey, it passed the rubicon), there are upgrades available to it...

It has a newer powerplant and drivetrain (which may or may not be up your alley), slightly larger, a bit more cargo room..a LOT QUIETER [:)]..

I dunno, man. They put too much crap on the motor for it to take the beating of off-roading. CJs are a whole lot less complex, hence easier to fix in the field. But that's if all you're going to do is take it out and beat it up; for a daily driver/part-time 4-wheeler, you're right-later model would be better.

Here in Californistan Wranglers are being marketed to (and purchased in large numbers by) gay men.

Which team are you playing for?

[peep]

I agree with everything you say, but I have to take exception to this:



Yes, Regular is cheaper, but it is only cheaper by 20 cents per gallon.  In my JGC 5.9 Limited, that means an extra $4.00 per tank.  I imagine that a Durango also has a 21 gallon tank, and gets about 16 mpg overall like the JGC 5.9.  After all, same engine...

A 4.0 Wrangler isn't going to get much more than 18 MPG, so I doubt that your savings would be much more than $20 a week.

Here's an example:

Vehicle 1 - 21 gal. tank 16 MPG

Vehicle 2 - 18 gal. tank 18 MPG

Week with V1, 2 fillups @1.75/gallon, approx 640 miles = $70.00.

Week with V2, 2 fillups @1.55/gallon, approx 612 miles = $52.70.

How does that work, exactly?

HEA????WTF!!!!![furious]  Here Jeeps are still for going 4wheeling Friday night with a case of beer and some firewood.  

I have a 95 black Jeep Wrangler and I wouldn't trade it for the world.  If it blew up tomorrow I would buy another one.

I don't have the hard top but I want one.  Get the V6 engine.

I had a small trailer made for me using the 3'X5' trailer from Northern Hydraulics and had 2'high metal sides welded on.  Then painted black.  This is good for hauling all your rifles and range stuff around.  Also when my wife and I go to the beach she has somewhere to put all her cloths.  (I'm glad she doesn't read arfcom.)

I'm going to find out how to post a picture and post it.


Rambosky

I love my 99!  I bought it new and have 130,000 miles on it.  I have only had to replace the rear brake cylinders (other than routine stuff).

The 97 and newer ones have the coil suspension so it is a slightly softer ride than the leaf springs.

I recommend the 5 sp and the 4 liter.

Also recommed the dual top option.  The hardtop for the winter is nice, and it is quieter.

Another nice thing is how customizeable they are.

Thanks for the replies, great points. Now just got to convince the wife. To come off the cash.


Hey Cali Kid,
Let me guess, you are a Jeep owner.

Billboards, bus stop signs, radio spots, etc. featuring only buff young men.  Rows of Wranglers in bright colors in dealers' lots.

I'm quite serious.  Lots of gay men in SoCal are buying Wranglers lately.

After borrowing my mom's Cherokee for a week I considered buying a Cherokee or Grand Cherokee but ended up with a '98 Nissan Pathfinder.  The sales manager at one place tried to hard sell a Wrangler to me.  I test drove a used Wrangler and liked it.  The price was OK but it didn't have enough interior room for my needs.

Well, I presume they're just looking for the right vehicle to take them...





...wait for it...






...up the dirt road!

Thank you, thank you very much. I'm here all week. Try the crab cakes.

The radio worked [i]most[/i] of the time. The biggest problem was the display would fry or the tape deck would just ramdomly start to run without a tape in it. They replaced the radio once and the old problem was fixed, just a new one popped up. He wanted the look of a factory radio.

And also the fact that $100 is $100, at least it is to my family. It must be nice being able to throw $100 around when something should be replaced under warranty for free.

Ive had My Wrangler for 10 years now, it is the latest in a long line of Jeep vehicles (CJ5,CJ7,fullsize Cherokee Chief S,two downsized Cherokees) going back to when I first started driving. If you are a jeep person you will love it if not it probably get old fast, I drove a co-workers new TJ a few weeks ago and I was not impressed with the ride compared to my 93, The coil springs seemed bouncier on road than mine. Generaly all jeeps tend to be noisier and less comfortable on long trips than other vehicles so if you are used to cars or SUV's agian the initial newness will wear off and ...
If you love the way jeeps look ,have always wanted one,and admire ones you see on the street by all means get one. otherwise you may  want to check out something else. Security in a wrangler or CJ is a joke even with a hardtop. get a tuffy console or glovebox (especially if you have to lock a gun in it from time to time)The only reason I could ever see for a hardtop was if you had A/C or live in a really cold climate where the top might never come off. Without two friends or a lift hardtops can be a pain. You can get hardtop doors with the soft top for roll-up/down glass windows,but I would stick with the soft top if you plan on taking it off much. Get the 6 versus the 4cyl the 4cyl has been adequate for around town and off road but on the highway it lacks power, at 65 its almost out of juice and passing can be a chore the 6 (straight 6, 4.0L or 242cid) is much better on the highway and has more torque at the lower rpms, If I had it to do over agian I'd get the 6.
However on the highway top down doors off its the greatest.

Granted my figures apply to my vehicle only, but I was simply raising the point that mileage differences account for more $$$ than does the 20 cents a gallon.

The real question is:  How many miles need to be driven.  Is it 750? or is 612 enough?  If 612 miles in enough, then we aren't using the whole 2nd tank on the Dodge, and if 750 miles is required, then more than 2 tanks are required on the Wrangler.  That could represent an amount of $11.88 to $16.10 off your $34.18 figure.

I understand now.  I was under the impression that the stereo didn't work at all.

I have a '98 TJ.  The above does a good job of reflecting my views as well.  If you are considering serious four-wheeling you might look at the Rubicon package. I've had very good experiences with this Jeep (my previous Jeep was a '69 CJ-5); however, any rig is going to have problems if it is bashed off-road. With regard to security, I'd get a small safe/strongbox for the inside. Specifically, one that I've actually seen/used is made by R & D Enterprises [url]www.handgunsafe.com[/url] and I've found it impressive. I've heard there are other good brands such as Tuffy. (They make a variety of Jeep "secure accessories".) In terms of purchasing a Jeep, you might also check [url]www.jeepwarehouse.com[/url]...they seem to have a good rep and if I was in the market for a new Jeep I'd give them a shot.  The first model year for the TJ was '97, so at least you're looking at a proven platform, IMO.

My wife has a 2000 Grand Cherokee and that rig has been absolutely terrific. The only rant that I have about it was that it came with brakes that were not adequate. That was fully taken care of by a D-C update that cost us $50 (replaced calipers and rotors with heavier units).
Happy Wheelin',
Kevin

Edited to add:
Either way, though, I'd tool around on weekends, and monday, I'd stop and refill (top off). Every thursday night/friday morning, though..it's either $40 in the Durango, or $16 in the jeep. Wasn't a hard call.
--end edit

That's comparing prices when I had the vehicles. It still wouldn't be much cheaper now, but it'd still be easily a tank of gas as far as the difference in price goes.

Besides, I was afraid to trop around in my leather interior with muddy boots on. No such worries in my jeep :)

I own a '95 Wrangler, and will probably keep it forever.  It's a fun vehicle, and with the hardtop, it's great year-round.

I wouldn't trade my Jeep for anything in the world...

[img]http://www.full-auto.com/images/forums/old/Jeep_RE_lift.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.full-auto.com/images/forums/old/RTI_spring_view.jpg[/img]

Tim

Well, I just got my wrangler '02, new last August.  I totally love it.  I just have the base model with the back seat added.  And I have no complaints.

The wrangler is a bit like an AR in that you can get just about any modification or accessory that you can think of.

I have the 4 cylinder soft top and both are fine for me as a daily driver (35-40 minute commute).  Our winter here in northern Illinois hasn't been severe, but I haven't had any problems with the cold.  pics and info here [url]http://iceknightconsulting.com/wrangler/[/url]

Most gay jeep owners, don't have mud tires, big whip CB antennas, gas cans, mud caked over the side of it, NRA/GOA/etc stickers on them, etc.  If you're gonna be a jeep man, be a Jeep MAN!

jeeps are not all bad but be prepared to drop some cash if you do much offroading.i do a little offroading  and have had to pull more people in jeeps back on the trail that were in jeeps than any other 4x4.me i drive an 81 fullsize bronco 4" lift,3"body lift,35x12.5x15's,315 horse400,c-6,4.11 gears front and rear,warn 9500 winch.i also have a couple toughy boxes in back,one for tools and parts and one i modified myself for holding 2-ar's ammo and cleaning kits and such.good luck deciding.oh if you are married get ready for nagging about how much a damn 4x4 cost to maintain.......i should add that the guys in jeeps i had to pull out of stucks and pull back onto their wheels didn't know crap about offroad driving and had only had the vehicles a few weeks..instead of learning to get stuck and crash slowly they just couldn't wait to get outand do it....

Oh, yah, and when you get into customizing it (the 7/70 warrantee is nice, so you may not want to get too radical and violate the warrantee..said 7/70 is for 2002 and newer only), you'll understand what JEEP means.

[b]J[/b]ust
[b]E[/b]mpty
[b]E[/b]ach
[b]P[/b]ocket

Mileage-wise...My '98 TJ (4L I-6)gets about 15MPG around town and about 17-18 on the highway. My wife's JGC (4.7L V-8)gets about 15 in the city and 22-23 on the highway. My last test of the JGC was between Boise, ID, and Klamath Falls, OR, last May and we got about 23. (I tried to keep the speed @ 65 except in ID, where the limit is 75 on most of I-84.)
Kevin

I like my 94 wrangler very much but of course it has a few drawbacks.
1. Very little security, no dropping by walmart on the way to the range, can't secure the guns.
2. Somewhat rough ride even though I have driven it from Missouri to Maine straight through (1500 miles)
3. Noisy interior but the radio can drown the road noise out.
On the up side.
1. Lots of power, quite quick with the 4.0 ltr.
2. Very easy to work on or modify, gotta love leaf springs for ease of modification.
3. Very agile, great in heavily wooded areas.
4. Goes just about anywhere, the only place the big trucks can get away from me is in deep deep mud. Other than that I have to go back to find them where ever they got hung up at.
5. Strangely enough some of the most comfortable seats I have ever had. I guess they needed something to help out the ride.

The absolute worst part about jeeps and why I DO NOT recommend them is customer service. Jeep and now Daimler routinely refuses to honor their warranty. They do not deal with the Better Business Bureau and have some sort of hokey in house customer complaint division. Needless to say you can guess how they handle problems.
GaryM
94 Jeep Wrangler w/4.0 ltr, factory posi rear end, 31x10.50R15 tires and many other fun mods.

wow i only get about 8 mpg. but i like horses

We just bought a brand new Jeep Wrangler Rubicon about a month ago, it's the new one that they brought out this year and it is equipped and ready to go off road right off the lot.  We like it real well, have taking it to the mountains several times since we had it and will take it more when Spring springs.  Here is a pic of it.

[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/p2dda8abe456a20c1cf4c06e6f258a61d/fce40aaf.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p0e3a79aca3c55e4ae38f02787151e38c/fcf579ca.jpg[/img]

MrsGunslinger,

How much did that rig cost you? It looks great.

It was right around 30 grand, most expensive play toy we have ever bought, but it will be fun.  I guess the older you get the more expensive the toys get. Hmmmmmmmm.........just thinking how many guns I could of purchased with that. :D :D

MrsGunslinger58, nice ride but you where robbed!! Retail on that rig is $24k and they sell for under $20k locally. I didn't even pay that much for my Grand Cherokee when it was new 2 years ago!!!

I wanted a vehicle and special ordered a 01 Wrangler Sahara with a dual Top. The price was right because i got it with the Chrysler Friends program. While I do not have a lot of miles on it i can say it is the most reliable vehicle i have ever owned. The first thing to know is that its a JEEP. It is not a Town & Country and does not operate like one. The ride is hard but I like it. Some reports say it does not steer well but if it was tight it would not work off road. Go drive one and see if it meets your rquirements. The Jeep community is different than most others in that many people seem to have a need to remake the thing. I can & do go off road in the Summer and it works fine. My recommendation is get as much jeep as you can afford. Get a dual top & switch as you like. Get the Sentry Key and the anti spin. My sahara has about everything else offered but I did get an extended Chrysler 7 year 75K Bumper to bumper. Many will tell you its a waste but we always used it with all our Chrysler products. Even if its a rattle in the dash after 2 years. We make the dealership go fix it. The other thing to remember is the dealership. We live in N.VA and take it for service with a high end dealership. Would not buy there but their service is very good and warranty work is not a problem. A salesman told me one time that his dealership does not discount much because the customers were from Mclean and they come in and pay cash. Thus these people expect SERVICE. Works for me. Good luck

Generic, you are looking at the regular Wrangler or the Sahara, do a search on the Rubicon and you will see the price go up. They are in such demand they won't even deal on them and when we bought this one there was 4 in  the whole state of CO to be found.  Here is a local dealers price, not the place we got ours at, they were just a tad cheaper but didn't have the color we wanted.

[url]http://www.coloradojeep.com/index.cfm?action=InventorySearch&subaction=SearchDetail&Vehicle=39321533&ListBack=1&VehicleOwnerDealerID=293[/url]

MrsGunslinger58, sorry to disagree but I have looked at them. The local dealer is selling the regular SE for under $15 and the rubicons for $19,995. Hell you can get a Grand Cherokee Overland for $30,990.  Your area must be different, nice jeep anyways :)

The *invoice* on the Rubicon is $22897 (there is no cash back or rebates on that model), so your dealer is selling Rubicons for almost $3000 UNDER INVOICE?  

I don't think so!  

If you believe the dealers will show you the actual dealer invoice and not an inflated number on a piece of paper they tape to the window I have a bridge to sell you. What they show for invoice and what they actually pay is two different things. Invoice also depends on how many units they sell. One dealer I use was the largest dodge dealer in the nation last year. They sold there trucks for 10k less than the competition. Believe what you want but if you don't shop around then you deserve to get screwed.

I had an '89 Wrangler, it ran perfectly and never broke down. I loved it, it was quite safe also. I had it skidding sideways one time after someone pulled out in front of me and it never even hinted at rolling and I had taller tires on it also. Now I own a 2001 Wrangler, it is simply a dream, handles well, plenty of power, I love it even more. It is the Sport model with a soft-top. I like being able to take the top down, I am going to buy a lock-box for it so I can store items securely. YOu cannot go wrong with a Wrangler, I suggest buying a used one though, I paid $24,000 for mine new, but buying one with 30k miles or less for $18,000 is just as good. Some slightly older ones are an even better deal.

I am selling my project vehicle I never completed if you want it.  79 CJ7 Hard top with UNDER 8 Thousand original miles on it.  Straight 6, Hard top, 4 Speed with the ultra low 1st gear (T18 Tranny) 3" body lift 4" Sky Jacker lift 35x15.5" Super Swamper SX tires.  Custom front bumber that holds compressed air for airing the tires back up after off roading.  Interior is 99% immacutate but the exterior needs a buff.  $8000