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Posted: 1/8/2006 8:12:23 PM EDT
Does anyone have either of these two vehicles and have any advice to share as to whether or not to buy either? To me, they both seem to fit the bill as to what I am looking for in a SUV. If you've had any negative experiences, please share.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:21:43 PM EDT
The Xterra has gotten better reviews if memory serves correctly. Personally it would be the Nissan hands down.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:57:24 PM EDT
the availability of a diesel in the jeep would be the clincher for me.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:04:37 AM EDT
Nissan.

Max
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:13:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
the availability of a diesel in the jeep would be the clincher for me.



+1
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:13:54 AM EDT
nissan
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:42:32 AM EDT
i was in the same place u are. looked at reviews, and went with the X.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:26:10 AM EDT
I'm a Jeep fan, at least the older ones, and am pretty anti-foreign when it comes to cars, but I think I might even have to recommend the Xterra. Now I wouldn't recommend the Nissan if Jeep still built the Cherokee.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:06:19 AM EDT
Well, my buddy has an X and it is nice, but we just picked up a Liberty Limited CRD.
We figured in the long run, we could get better mileage out of the diesel and the price was right (bought it used with 550 miles on it, saved over $7500 off of their new price).
By buying 5% Biodiesel locally, we are getting by pretty good.
So far, we are getting about 25mpg on the highway and 21mpg going back and forth to work.
I really don't think the X can get over 20mpg on the highway.

Now we are waiting for the next big snow to try out the 4wd aspects of it.

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:50:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:
I'm a Jeep fan, at least the older ones, and am pretty anti-foreign when it comes to cars, but I think I might even have to recommend the Xterra. Now I wouldn't recommend the Nissan if Jeep still built the Cherokee.



I totally agree...IMHO the Liberty is nothing more than a cute ute...
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:34:16 PM EDT
Xterra.

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:02:35 PM EDT
If you're gonna get the X, don't forget the blower !
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:16:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RSF45:
If you're gonna get the X, don't forget the blower !


They do have a supercharged version, at least the older ones do.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:31:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deej86:
Xterra.




I have to agree, I have a 04 Frontier and love it .
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:37:33 PM EDT
I am a HUGE JEEP FAN. Go get a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited with a hard top. A RUBICON model, if you can swing it. If you ever decide to actually go off road, nothing beats a JEEP. They are made for off-road. If you never plan on leaving pavement, go ahead and get the Liberty. X-Terra are nice, but the axle will not hold for real off road use. hippie.gif
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:42:21 PM EDT
NISSAN ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:54:44 PM EDT
Diesel - Jeep
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:06:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MinnesotaShooter:
Does anyone have either of these two vehicles and have any advice to share as to whether or not to buy either? To me, they both seem to fit the bill as to what I am looking for in a SUV. If you've had any negative experiences, please share.




The import lovers/Detorit bashers strike again, I guess none of the above read well......



I own an '02 Libby and it has been trouble free since I bought it new. Lifted and goes anywhere I point it.


The only negative experience I had was the horn went out. I park by RR tracks at work and the damn alarm goes off most of the day.


Great vehicle, if Daimler got out of Chrysler, I wouldnt hesitate buying another one.

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:07:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr10anahaf:

Originally Posted By deej86:
Xterra.




I have to agree, I have a 04 Frontier and love it .


I don't have one but I have seen it in person and looked at the specs and liked it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:46:11 PM EDT
Get the Nissan. However the supercharged engine is not available anymore. The new engine makes substantially more power without it anyway.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:51:26 PM EDT
Nissan
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:25:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By MinnesotaShooter:
Does anyone have either of these two vehicles and have any advice to share as to whether or not to buy either? To me, they both seem to fit the bill as to what I am looking for in a SUV. If you've had any negative experiences, please share.




The import lovers/Detorit bashers strike again, I guess none of the above read well......



I own an '02 Libby and it has been trouble free since I bought it new. Lifted and goes anywhere I point it.


The only negative experience I had was the horn went out. I park by RR tracks at work and the damn alarm goes off most of the day.


Great vehicle, if Daimler got out of Chrysler, I wouldnt hesitate buying another one.




Since most Jeep buyers didn't go with the Liberty, they wouldn't own it. Jeep didn't retain Cherokee buyers with the Liberty. According to my local rag, today, where the Liberty is built, and where the Cherokee was built, 70% of Liberty buyers were new Jeep buyers, and 60% of Liberty buyers are women. Cherokee numbers were much, much different. So, if he only wanted to hear from ppl. that own Libertys odds are it would be their first Jeep, and they would be a woman...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:32:22 AM EDT
When me and my ex bought the wrangler I test drove a liberty, and a friend has one. Trust me, get the Nissan.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:35:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:39:54 AM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By MinnesotaShooter:
Does anyone have either of these two vehicles and have any advice to share as to whether or not to buy either? To me, they both seem to fit the bill as to what I am looking for in a SUV. If you've had any negative experiences, please share.




The import lovers/Detorit bashers strike again, I guess none of the above read well......



But the people who DON'T OWN either and still supported the Liberty are OK?



Why not bash them equally?

[ETA: I wouldn't choose either one. How about the Honda Pilot? Or the Ford Escape Hybrid?]
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:13:50 PM EDT
I've got an 04 Liberty Renegade, along with 3 CJ's and two toyota pickups. The Liberty is a really good truck, I've been more than impressed with it. It's got a really comfortable on-road ride, and is probably one of the most capable vehicles in its class off-road. The diesel engine is a great option, although I have the 3.7L gas.

My only downside is cargo space. We had to get a roof top cargo carrier for vacation, but there's plenty of room in the back for a BOB, Rubbermaid action packer, and B&D jumpstart box, with room left over for a full load of groceries.

Ergonomically, the jeep is set up like a dream. Everything is in the right place, the 4x4 is real (lever actuated, transfer case with low range), and the gauges and knobs are easy to read and reach. Seats are comfortable, and give good support.

Lots of stuff for the vehicle on the aftermarket as well. Ground clearance is one of my complaints, but overall it isn't too bad. Ours isn't lifted, and we haven't had any problems with the limited 4x4 we've done (logging trails, dirt roads, snow, etc). We save the CJ7 for anything really tough.

I own japanese and jeep, and I don't think brand loyalty should come into play. Look at real numbers, facts, and personal accounts. Don't fall prey to the "Ferd can kick Chebby's ass" routine. Go out and test drive the vehicles, see if you can find someone who owns either who will let you take it out in a field and see how it handles in a bit of dirt.

Overall, good luck and have fun!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:38:12 PM EDT
Anything but a liberty. I hate them. Indipendent suspension on an off-roader? Come on. If you want a true jeep, but a wrangler, or an used cherokee.

I guess I see it as this: If you buy crap that companies dish out that you don't want, what reason do companies have to produce something that you do want?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:43:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Anything but a liberty. I hate them. Indipendent suspension on an off-roader? Come on. If you want a true jeep, but a wrangler, or an used cherokee.

I guess I see it as this: If you buy crap that companies dish out that you don't want, what reason do companies have to produce something that you do want?



the X has a solid front axle
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:08:09 PM EDT
Nope, sure doesn't. Nor does the 4 runner/Tacoma, anything by mitsubishi, GM, Ford (under 3/4 ton), Dodge (under 1/2 ton), etc. etc. etc.

I want to say that the Wrangler is the only vehicle under 1/2 ton that has a straight axle anymore...

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 9:15:08 AM EDT
that's what i thought- it's a cryin' shame, but i love that comfy ride
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:14:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Anything but a liberty. I hate them. Indipendent suspension on an off-roader? Come on. If you want a true jeep, but a wrangler, or an used cherokee.

I guess I see it as this: If you buy crap that companies dish out that you don't want, what reason do companies have to produce something that you do want?



This type of complaint seems similar to how some people yearn for the days of musclecars, even though many 4 door sedans today could beat them 0-60, and blow them out of the water quality wise. The typical response is, 'Well with them, you could make mods easily, to improve performance and easily build a drag car'. If you want to build a monster drag car, or off roader, them build it. Don't expect the manufactures to make it for you. Doing so would drop sales to 1,000-5,000 a year, whereas making a vechile with 70% of the abiltiy of a 'good off road truck' that retains decent comfort and driving characteristics may sell 50,000.


Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:46:39 PM EDT
I wouldn't trade my Xterra for any other SUV
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:14:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Anything but a liberty. I hate them. Indipendent suspension on an off-roader? Come on. If you want a true jeep, but a wrangler, or an used cherokee.

I guess I see it as this: If you buy crap that companies dish out that you don't want, what reason do companies have to produce something that you do want?



This type of complaint seems similar to how some people yearn for the days of musclecars, even though many 4 door sedans today could beat them 0-60, and blow them out of the water quality wise. The typical response is, 'Well with them, you could make mods easily, to improve performance and easily build a drag car'. If you want to build a monster drag car, or off roader, them build it. Don't expect the manufactures to make it for you. Doing so would drop sales to 1,000-5,000 a year, whereas making a vechile with 70% of the abiltiy of a 'good off road truck' that retains decent comfort and driving characteristics may sell 50,000.





Wrangler sells year in and year out 100,000, and the Cherokee sold much more than that every year for almost 20 years...

The Liberty has sold well, however, it has been mostly new customers, and women...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:31:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 5:33:16 AM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Don't expect the manufactures to make it for you. Doing so would drop sales to 1,000-5,000 a year, whereas making a vechile with 70% of the abiltiy of a 'good off road truck' that retains decent comfort and driving characteristics may sell 50,000.



Wrangler sells year in and year out 100,000, and the Cherokee sold much more than that every year for almost 20 years...



...and yet they were not the be all, end all in off-road discussions. [b[DriftPunch's point is that if you were to make a Jeep that was so kick ass on the trail, like an Uber-Rubicon, and ONLY sell that model type, you would sell 1,000-5,000 units.

Which is likely what the Rubicon sells...

If you make a smallish SUV, with decent power, decent off-road capability and a good price you will sell 50,000 of them or more.

I guarantee that many of the 100,000 units sold per year are NOT the top of line Wrangler with the I6, and the Renegade trim, and the hard top, etc.

Most of them are the base model I4, 5spd, with base seating options, no heaters, etc. Right?

I bet a lot of them are sold to high school and college kids because "having a Jeep is 'cool' man", they will never take it on a trail like the Rubicon, or hell they may never even take it in more dirt than the path from the Senior parking lot to the baseball/football field.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:27:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Don't expect the manufactures to make it for you. Doing so would drop sales to 1,000-5,000 a year, whereas making a vechile with 70% of the abiltiy of a 'good off road truck' that retains decent comfort and driving characteristics may sell 50,000.



Wrangler sells year in and year out 100,000, and the Cherokee sold much more than that every year for almost 20 years...



...and yet they were not the be all, end all in off-road discussions. [b[DriftPunch's point is that if you were to make a Jeep that was so kick ass on the trail, like an Uber-Rubicon, and ONLY sell that model type, you would sell 1,000-5,000 units.

Which is likely what the Rubicon sells...

If you make a smallish SUV, with decent power, decent off-road capability and a good price you will sell 50,000 of them or more.

I guarantee that many of the 100,000 units sold per year are NOT the top of line Wrangler with the I6, and the Renegade trim, and the hard top, etc.

Most of them are the base model I4, 5spd, with base seating options, no heaters, etc. Right?

I bet a lot of them are sold to high school and college kids because "having a Jeep is 'cool' man", they will never take it on a trail like the Rubicon, or hell they may never even take it in more dirt than the path from the Senior parking lot to the baseball/football field.



Where does some of this stuff come from? You equate the 6 only and a hard top as off road equipment? If you wheel enough with a hardtop, it is bound to crack, don't ask me how I know that. A base Jeep Wrangler SE is great off road, especially if you just change the tires. Don't be so sure the Rubicon only sells 1 to 5 thousand units a year. Sure, many Wranglers are bought by kids, or for kids, which means they will make great used off roaders when little Johnny moves onto something else. Go try to find some Wrangler parts in a junkyard, not too easy. Check the resale of a clean 8 year old Wrangler, base model, an then a 3 year old Liberty. Not too different. Let's face it, the Liberty was built to live off of the Jeep name, a name that was built by the Wrangler, CJ, and Cherokee. With more products like the Liberty, Compass, and Patriot, and whatever brand engineering DCX can dream up (Dodge Nitro anyone?) the Jeep name will become more and more diminished...

btw...let me know where you can find a Wrangler with out a heater cause I do like base models...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:06:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
Where does some of this stuff come from? You equate the 6 only and a hard top as off road equipment? If you wheel enough with a hardtop, it is bound to crack, don't ask me how I know that. A base Jeep Wrangler SE is great off road, especially if you just change the tires. Don't be so sure the Rubicon only sells 1 to 5 thousand units a year. Sure, many Wranglers are bought by kids, or for kids, which means they will make great used off roaders when little Johnny moves onto something else. Go try to find some Wrangler parts in a junkyard, not too easy. Check the resale of a clean 8 year old Wrangler, base model, an then a 3 year old Liberty. Not too different. Let's face it, the Liberty was built to live off of the Jeep name, a name that was built by the Wrangler, CJ, and Cherokee. With more products like the Liberty, Compass, and Patriot, and whatever brand engineering DCX can dream up (Dodge Nitro anyone?) the Jeep name will become more and more diminished...

btw...let me know where you can find a Wrangler with out a heater cause I do like base models...




Zooooooooooooooooooooooooo­oooooooooooooom.

Sound of the point sailing by.

Enjoy.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:18:33 AM EDT
xterra
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:27:53 AM EDT
Need a poll.

My wife's ride - and our back up BOV - is a Liberty. We looked around and went with 1: who dealt with us and 2: bang-for-buck, and 3: ergonomics. The Liberty won.

I haven't offroaded with it but I do have to say it's the best inclement-weather vehicle I've ever driven, including my Dakota 4x4.

I do wish we'd waited to get a CRD but... que sera sera. It's hard enough finding one with both AWD and anti-lock brakes.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:30:27 AM EDT
Out of seven people I know with Jeep products, five of them have had tranny problems. The 2005 Liberty hasn't had any problems yet, but if the other people's Cherokees are any indication about he reliability and lack of longevity of the tranny, I would avoid the while Jeep line. YMMV
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:50:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
Where does some of this stuff come from? You equate the 6 only and a hard top as off road equipment? If you wheel enough with a hardtop, it is bound to crack, don't ask me how I know that. A base Jeep Wrangler SE is great off road, especially if you just change the tires. Don't be so sure the Rubicon only sells 1 to 5 thousand units a year. Sure, many Wranglers are bought by kids, or for kids, which means they will make great used off roaders when little Johnny moves onto something else. Go try to find some Wrangler parts in a junkyard, not too easy. Check the resale of a clean 8 year old Wrangler, base model, an then a 3 year old Liberty. Not too different. Let's face it, the Liberty was built to live off of the Jeep name, a name that was built by the Wrangler, CJ, and Cherokee. With more products like the Liberty, Compass, and Patriot, and whatever brand engineering DCX can dream up (Dodge Nitro anyone?) the Jeep name will become more and more diminished...

btw...let me know where you can find a Wrangler with out a heater cause I do like base models...




Zooooooooooooooooooooooooo­oooooooooooooom.

Sound of the point sailing by.

Enjoy.



For someone to miss a point, there had to be a point in the first place. You were trying to say that the Wrangler is watered down in its most popular iteration, which is very far from the truth. If you think the only serious offroad Wranglers are Rubicons you are sadly mistaken. The SE and X for the money are a great off road deal, regardless of teen boppers getting them as graduation gifts or gays and metrosexuals driving SEs with stock tires. The Wrangler does have its poser owners, like any great off road vehicle, however it is a real Jeep, unlike the poser Jeep that is the Liberty...
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:37:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By MinnesotaShooter:
Does anyone have either of these two vehicles and have any advice to share as to whether or not to buy either? To me, they both seem to fit the bill as to what I am looking for in a SUV. If you've had any negative experiences, please share.




The import lovers/Detorit bashers strike again, I guess none of the above read well......



I own an '02 Libby and it has been trouble free since I bought it new. Lifted and goes anywhere I point it.


The only negative experience I had was the horn went out. I park by RR tracks at work and the damn alarm goes off most of the day.


Great vehicle, if Daimler got out of Chrysler, I wouldnt hesitate buying another one.


I have a Lib too,built like a tank. As far as IFS is concerned,must be good enough for the folks who run with SCORE! BTW,the CRD is now available as a Sport,and,by buying a Liberty,you'll keep the fine folks at Guardian Automotive in Morehead,KY at work.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:25:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

For someone to miss a point, there had to be a point in the first place.



It wasn't MY point that you missed. It was Driftpunch's.

The Liberty and the Xterra are not meant to be Rubicons or custom offroad rigs. They are made and marketed to exactly who they wanted to market them to.

They are superior in nearly every way to their predecessors.

If they were made to be offroad studs they would sell a lot less units.

You mention 100,000 units sold in the Wrangler line. For every Rubicon I see, I see 20 base models.

A high school chick who buys a Wrangler isn't going to drop $25k on a Rubicon. She is going to get daddy to buy her a base model with a soft top and an I4.

I see more soccer moms driving Wranglers than heterosexual males.

They are kind of like Honda Civics and Jettas now.

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:26:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
You were trying to say that the Wrangler is watered down in its most popular iteration, which is very far from the truth.



You're on fucking crack. What I said was that more people buy the base models. I never mentioned their abilities.

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:32:15 PM EDT
The Liberty is the ultimate, end-all, be-all, Chuck Norris of Jeeps. There will never be a better vehicle than the Liberty, only shameless copies.

The XTerra is for people who cannot make a decision, whose mommies dressed them as girls, and people too stupid to stop staring upward in the rain.



Lighten up folks. They're just cars.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:54:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

For someone to miss a point, there had to be a point in the first place.



It wasn't MY point that you missed. It was Driftpunch's.

The Liberty and the Xterra are not meant to be Rubicons or custom offroad rigs. They are made and marketed to exactly who they wanted to market them to.

They are superior in nearly every way to their predecessors.

If they were made to be offroad studs they would sell a lot less units.

You mention 100,000 units sold in the Wrangler line. For every Rubicon I see, I see 20 base models.

A high school chick who buys a Wrangler isn't going to drop $25k on a Rubicon. She is going to get daddy to buy her a base model with a soft top and an I4.

I see more soccer moms driving Wranglers than heterosexual males.

They are kind of like Honda Civics and Jettas now.




You say I'm on fucking crack, and you think the Liberty is better than the Cherokee? You are having trouble understanding that every Wrangler is a hard core off road vehicle, not just the Rubicon. Regardless of who buys them, and since you seem to be checking out the males who are driving them, that doesn't change the fact of what they are. Jeep did not make the Liberty to be 60% female buyers. They have admitted this, thus they brought out the boxy Commander hoping to regain the Cherokee buyers that they lost. Because the Commander is box engineering, that won't work. Car companies can make mistakes, don't think they are know it alls that know what will sell the best year in and year out. The original small Cherokee kept AMC in business, kept Chrysler in business, and helped DCX make a ton of money until they foolishly killed it. The Liberty is a failure to Jeep in keeping existing customers. In gaining women and trendy customers that aren't brand loyal, it has done great. You sound like a Ford exec in the late 80s that argued to kill the Mustang with the "better" Probe...
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:55:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:


Lighten up folks. They're just cars.



Hey, if we were talking about just cars I would agree, however, we are talking about Jeeps...something much more important...
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:36:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
You say I'm on fucking crack, and you think the Liberty is better than the Cherokee?



Better MPG, better suspension for the main market segment, better performance, safer in crashes, more reliable, available with a diesel, more refined.

Yes, better than the Cherokee. Maybe not for offroaders, but THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT YOU ARE MISSING.


You are having trouble understanding that every Wrangler is a hard core off road vehicle, not just the Rubicon.


Yeah, that's why they made the Rubicon, to get the aftermarket dollars that the Jeep crowd was spending on lockers, bigger tires, etc.


Regardless of who buys them, and since you seem to be checking out the males who are driving them, that doesn't change the fact of what they are.


It's obvious that high school chicks and soccer moms with midlife crisis hangovers are driving them. It is what is commonly ABSENT from the driver's seat that solicited my comment. Then again, with the rest of the points you missed I find it as no surprise that you missed that one too.

I am checking out all the CHICKS driving Jeep Wranglers at the beach, at the mall & on the road. Those that have them aren't driving tricked out offroaders, they are driving base models that cost daddy/hubby about $12k-$15k.

Get it?

I bet not.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 9:30:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
The Liberty is the ultimate, end-all, be-all, Chuck Norris of Jeeps. There will never be a better vehicle than the Liberty, only shameless copies.

The XTerra is for people who cannot make a decision, whose mommies dressed them as girls, and people too stupid to stop staring upward in the rain.



Lighten up folks. They're just cars.

Ok,I'll chime in again. Having had both a 75 CJ-5(the real CJ,with the Dana 44 rear-end),and a 75 Blazer full-topper,I'm happy with the Liberty(hell,I even sold my Miata,got sick and tired of the rough ride,after driving the Cornbinder big truck all day),and I'm sure the XTerra is a good SUV. However,those who want a bare-bones 4X4 like days of old,the Rubicon is about all you're gonna get(that's why we go out and get $1K CJs).As far as the Cherokee,well,it's time was past due(and yes,I like them,but they seem more cramped as far as headroom is concerned).
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:25:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
You say I'm on fucking crack, and you think the Liberty is better than the Cherokee?



Better MPG, better suspension for the main market segment, better performance, safer in crashes, more reliable, available with a diesel, more refined.

Yes, better than the Cherokee. Maybe not for offroaders, but THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT YOU ARE MISSING.


You are having trouble understanding that every Wrangler is a hard core off road vehicle, not just the Rubicon.


Yeah, that's why they made the Rubicon, to get the aftermarket dollars that the Jeep crowd was spending on lockers, bigger tires, etc.


Regardless of who buys them, and since you seem to be checking out the males who are driving them, that doesn't change the fact of what they are.


It's obvious that high school chicks and soccer moms with midlife crisis hangovers are driving them. It is what is commonly ABSENT from the driver's seat that solicited my comment. Then again, with the rest of the points you missed I find it as no surprise that you missed that one too.

I am checking out all the CHICKS driving Jeep Wranglers at the beach, at the mall & on the road. Those that have them aren't driving tricked out offroaders, they are driving base models that cost daddy/hubby about $12k-$15k.

Get it?

I bet not.



If we keep going on with this you might learn a few things...

On the Rubicon, the tires suck. Those in the know replace the Goodyears with Bridgestone or etc. right away a lot of the time anyways. Look on ebay if you don't believe it, or any Jeep forum. Considering the cost of the Rubicon compared to what you get and what an SE has, many start with the SE and adds parts, because they have to change the Rubicon a lot anyways. You act as is the Rubicon was the first hardcore Wrangler, and that no one was able to offroad before '03.

I KNOW MANY POSERS BUY JEEPS. NO FUCKING SHIT! Just because all the metrosexuals could be better served on the street by a cute ute like the Liberty doesn't mean Jeep didn't fuck up replacing the Cherokee with it. Image is very important to car companies, and when it gets diluted, it is harder and harder to live off the past. The Liberty did nothing to help Jeep and its image, and as each year goes on the name lessens and lessens.

What Wranglers do you see new for 12-15? Considering the SE is 18,800, and the Wrangler has probably the lowest "incentives" in the domestic car world, where are these coming from? Are these the same units that don't have heaters?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:26:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:
However,those who want a bare-bones 4X4 like days of old,the Rubicon is about all you're gonna get



Completely wrong...
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:27:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:42:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
I KNOW MANY POSERS BUY JEEPS. NO FUCKING SHIT! Just because all the metrosexuals could be better served on the street by a cute ute like the Liberty doesn't mean Jeep didn't fuck up replacing the Cherokee with it.



Hint hint: The Liberty did not replace the Cherokee. The Cherokee was cut due to sagging sales. THe Liberty was brought on to fill the niche that was being led by the Escape, CRV, RAV4, Grand Vitara and the Hyundai and Kia min-utes. The Cherokee was suffering from poor gas mileage, poor safety, poor COMPARATIVE on-road handling, shitty features for the 21st Century, etc. It HAD to go. Most of the buyers were/are buying SUV's for grocery getting, trips to Grandma's house during the holidays and hauling the kids/gear around. The features that made the Cherokee great are/were no longer in demand by large numbers of buyers. Period.

This is THE POINT that you can't seem to wrap you little itty bitty mind around. The Cherokee was chasing sales to a group of buyers that were DISINTERESTED in off-road capability. Get it? You haven't yet, so why ask -- right? The Liberty was introduced while the TRUE replacement to the Cherokee could be designed and produced.

Enter the Commander.


What Wranglers do you see new for 12-15? Considering the SE is 18,800, and the Wrangler has probably the lowest "incentives" in the domestic car world, where are these coming from? Are these the same units that don't have heaters?


So you never trade cars in? You never haggle prices? You just pay MSRP? You always buy new, especially as a second or third vehicle? I suppose that shouldn't surprise me. Also, I meant A/C but was typing too fast and said heater. Get over it.
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