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Posted: 2/16/2017 5:30:20 PM EDT
So my understanding of the Fucashima nuke plant issue is there is TONS of radioactivity in the area(like 600 Sieverts + per hour  which is a lot apparently, people die after 1 hour at 50, and at 100 Sieverts  complex electrical machines stop working (computer chips stop working properly because the semi conductors stop working right). Apparently Toshiba and other high tech people have been building robots to go in and scout out things to try and figure out what the recent spike in radioactivity is from and see if they can fix things. Now these robots are like 1-2 feet tall with a camera and no real ability to travel . Stairs are an issue, as are doors, build a robot for stairs AND doors and you run into weight issues, Also as you add complexity you get more and more microchips that need shielding  so they will continue to work so you end up with a robot that weighs stupid amounts, so you get limited battery life... ect ect. radio control is nigh impossible inside a building BUILT to stop EM radiation so forget radio waves, gotta go direct cable.  So the Japanese engineers end up with limited mobility and limited usefulness no matter what. So I just came up with the fix and tell me If I'm crazy.  

An Abrams tank, depleted uranium armor(stops radiation 6X better than lead), able to roll over rubble already, already CBRN hardened, AND wait for it, on the gun you simply hang a STUPID(literally a NON micro chipped robot) robot off of it, get there and set it down. and it rolls it self off of the gun. The actual robot is ONLY a set of treads, a 4 giant buzz saws with carbide blades to cut holes in walls/doors, and 1-3 cameras, and a radiation detector box that is STUPID(again issue is microchips die fast). What is a STUPID radiation detector, I came up with this (but I'm pretty sure it was invented prior, in like 1890's) so you take a multi compartment box (like the pills for today box), but compartment 1 has 1 inch of lead shielding, compartment 2 has 2/3 inches of lead, compartment 3 has 1/2 inches of lead shielding, ect ect. and throw 7 of those badges that the Xray techs at hospitals wear. Simply recover at the end and you have a BASIC rough level of levels along a certain course, Dose, time, shielding ought to give you a rough estimate of total activity over the course that ROV took. All the control of the robot is from the Abrams tank which would power the thing by simple connected or not connected electrical cables that were shielded in lead/plastic tether cords to allow for range. You need a longer range from where the tank parks, simply splice a 2nd cable spool into the original tether and put loaded up cable spool that runs OUT from the robot. The robot's tether effectively doubles in length and doesn't have to drag the full weight(or alternatively a second stupid robot to carry cable instead of buzz saw). Also I'm not an electrical engineer but I would assume that an Abrams engine has PLENTY of mechanical power to steal some easily and make a super simple generator for the  robot power supply, NOT carrying it's own power supply would make things simple. As for the control( you got to see where you are going driving said ROV), why not go LOW tech and just use the tether and incorporate a fiber optic cable with good old fashioned lenses, no microchips or cameras at all.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:09:03 PM EDT
[#1]
"what the recent spike in radioactivity is from?"

It is called getting closer to pieces of fuel. No spike it has always been there. Just now able to get closer.

Your simple idea has some merit and a lot of problems. The no chip or electronics and use fiber approach sounds good but lenses and fiber optic stuff turns dark very quickly in extremely high rad fields.

How do I know this? Lotza time cleaning up a fuel pool and witnessing the changes very high levels of radiation does to things like electronics and glass.

BTW - once a camera lens turns dark you could heat it to 350 in an oven for about an hour and it would clear up.

Depleted uranium for shielding is good. Gold is even better. The idea is to get mass between you  and the source of radiation. High density things work great and gold is one of the best.

Then why is lead used so much? Maybe something to do with price of lead vs. gold.

The idea to shield your measuring device to keep the radiation in usable ranges for your measuring device was probably used by Madame Curie around 1900.

I am retired from about 30 years in this business. I would bet I know some of the contractors there working on these problems.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:11:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Keith_J still hasnt came back afaik.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:25:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
"what the recent spike in radioactivity is from?"

It is called getting closer to pieces of fuel. No spike it has always been there. Just now able to get closer.

Your simple idea has some merit and a lot of problems. The no chip or electronics and use fiber approach sounds good but lenses and fiber optic stuff turns dark very quickly in extremely high rad fields.

How do I know this? Lotza time cleaning up a fuel pool and witnessing the changes very high levels of radiation does to things like electronics and glass.

BTW - once a camera lens turns dark you could heat it to 350 in an oven for about an hour and it would clear up.

Depleted uranium for shielding is good. Gold is even better. The idea is to get mass between you  and the source of radiation. High density things work great and gold is one of the best.

Then why is lead used so much? Maybe something to do with price of lead vs. gold.

The idea to shield your measuring device to keep the radiation in usable ranges for your measuring device was probably used by Madame Curie around 1900.

I am retired from about 30 years in this business. I would bet I know some of the contractors there working on these problems.
View Quote


I was of the understanding that there was a recent spike of emissions from the "normal" super high level  to "new high" levels within the reactor plant itself.  Neat to know about the glass darkening, beyond that I thought I had the problem licked.  Would tungsten work as a viable substitute for gold? (cheap counterfeit gold lol). Further reading reveals that the new camera robot did go closer to the bad glowing stuff... hence the higher reading, original news story didn't say that and was MUCH more exciting...
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:29:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Keith_J still hasnt came back afaik.
View Quote
Thought he was banned for some reason. In either event, haven't heard that name in a long time. 
Always wondered what his background and profession was. Seemed to know a lot about a lot....as in a jack of all trades and a master at all as well. I asked him in several threads years ago but never got a response. 
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:08:48 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm wondering too now. He always struck me as really smart and know lots about lots.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#6]
You can't page Keith j, and use his mastery of google, You will have to Google it yourself! Lol!!!
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 9:29:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was of the understanding that there was a recent spike of emissions from the "normal" super high level  to "new high" levels within the reactor plant itself.  
View Quote

You must have been only reading the sensational headlines and skipping the actual articles.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 9:32:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Here we go.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 9:56:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Written by someone with NO UNDERSTANDING of making eqipmenty work in high radiation environments.

The insulation on wires fails from higher high doses in a matter of minutes from charge generation and accumulation.

Semiconductors can be dead even faster.
They may fail instantly from charge generation.

It is IONIZING radiation.

That means it creates ions.
That means it knocks electrons off atoms in every material.
Some are harder to knock loose but they WILL  come loose.

And move around under any electric field present.
Like between the two wires with voltage on them.

We had test fixtures for components that had to be replaced every 10 minutes to allow us to tell if the components had failed.

There ARE ways to 'harden' components.
They still have peak exposure rates that will prevent them from operating.
But at least they do not fail catastrophically in correctly designed circuits
Hint: speed is not your friend. It just fails faster. Think lower currents and massive margins. Along with a LOT of current limiting
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 9:58:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Keith_J still hasnt came back afaik.
View Quote

I'm only here in the hopes that he makes an appearance.
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