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Posted: 11/4/2009 2:17:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:19:24 PM EST by tc2k11]
JPFO ALERT: BATFE ACKNOWLEDGES A NATIONWIDE DATABASE OF GUN OWNERS.

"E-trace is a nationwide database maintained by the ATF that lists
a firearm's first purchaser, date of purchase and the retailer from
which it was purchased
. The information is compiled from police
records of gun purchases provided by local departments, but until
today was only accessible by the ATF and the police department that
provided it." Read all of this article from August 2007 -
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/etrace-nj.htm

We have been telling you about this long standing national
registration scheme -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/batfe-and-gunreg.htm . It's time
for every gun owner to to notify every politician in America that a
national registration of firearms will not be tolerated. You have
two choices - save the 2A or destroy it. It's up to you.

This alert, on JPFO -
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20091104.htm
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:20:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:21:40 PM EST
Well if true... Buy used. Its harder to trace a used firearm even through FFLs than the first time a new gun is sold.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:22:39 PM EST
Find someone who has the same firearm that you have, and trade firearms.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:22:44 PM EST
Oh no, what will they do next. Come here and take them
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:22:57 PM EST
Did anyone seriously think that this wasn't the case?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:23:28 PM EST
Does this REALLY surprise anyone?

Have you ever heard of a gun store having to look through their Forms to tell the police who bought a gun that was found at a crime scene?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:25:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:37:00 PM EST by 53vortec]
Originally Posted By tc2k11:
JPFO ALERT: BATFE ACKNOWLEDGES A NATIONWIDE DATABASE OF GUN OWNERS.

"E-trace is a nationwide database maintained by the ATF that lists
a firearm's first purchaser, date of purchase and the retailer from
which it was purchased
. The information is compiled from police
records of gun purchases provided by local departments
, but until
today was only accessible by the ATF and the police department that
provided it." Read all of this article from August 2007 -
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/etrace-nj.htm

We have been telling you about this long standing national
registration scheme -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/batfe-and-gunreg.htm . It's time
for every gun owner to to notify every politician in America that a
national registration of firearms will not be tolerated. You have
two choices - save the 2A or destroy it. It's up to you.

This alert, on JPFO -
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20091104.htm


E-Trace only appears to be an issue if you're in a state/municipality that requires you to register your firearms.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:28:22 PM EST
That has to be one inaccurate data base! 100 million + guns, trades, hand me downs, private sales.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:29:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Originally Posted By tc2k11:
JPFO ALERT: BATFE ACKNOWLEDGES A NATIONWIDE DATABASE OF GUN OWNERS.

"E-trace is a nationwide database maintained by the ATF that lists
a firearm's first purchaser, date of purchase and the retailer from
which it was purchased
. The information is compiled from police
records of gun purchases provided by local departments
, but until
today was only accessible by the ATF and the police department that
provided it." Read all of this article from August 2007 -
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/etrace-nj.htm

We have been telling you about this long standing national
registration scheme -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/batfe-and-gunreg.htm . It's time
for every gun owner to to notify every politician in America that a
national registration of firearms will not be tolerated. You have
two choices - save the 2A or destroy it. It's up to you.

This alert, on JPFO -
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20091104.htm


E-Trace only appears to be an issue if you're in a state/municipality that requires you to register your firearms.


It still sounds like a lot of info is being illegally compiled by fucktards who ignore some laws and enforce others to the point of lunacy...
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:31:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:32:34 PM EST
We're all marked, in numerous ways.

CCW database for starters.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:32:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Originally Posted By tc2k11:
JPFO ALERT: BATFE ACKNOWLEDGES A NATIONWIDE DATABASE OF GUN OWNERS.

"E-trace is a nationwide database maintained by the ATF that lists
a firearm's first purchaser, date of purchase and the retailer from
which it was purchased
. The information is compiled from police
records of gun purchases provided by local departments
, but until
today was only accessible by the ATF and the police department that
provided it." Read all of this article from August 2007 -
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/etrace-nj.htm

We have been telling you about this long standing national
registration scheme -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/batfe-and-gunreg.htm . It's time
for every gun owner to to notify every politician in America that a
national registration of firearms will not be tolerated. You have
two choices - save the 2A or destroy it. It's up to you.

This alert, on JPFO -
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20091104.htm


E-Trace only appears to be an issue if you're in a state/municipality that requires you to register your firearms.


or state with handgun registration
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:34:14 PM EST
Once a gun buyer always a gun owner. A serial number doesn't mater they know you own guns.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:36:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lancair:
Did anyone seriously think that this wasn't the case?


This.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:36:44 PM EST
an American Hunter magazine I was looking at today debunked this as a myth
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:41:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lancair:
Did anyone seriously think that this wasn't the case?


+1

who didn't think this existed?

people are so naive it's amazing.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:41:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Does this REALLY surprise anyone?

Have you ever heard of a gun store having to look through their Forms to tell the police who bought a gun that was found at a crime scene?


Yes actually I have. They went to the files, searched the files and located the original 4473 which happened to list the guy had the gun. It was a laborious process, but that is the process.




That seems almost impossible. A freakin needle in a haystack.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:42:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By gregert12:
an American Hunter magazine I was looking at today debunked this as a myth


American Hunter is probably wrong.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:44:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:46:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lancair:
Did anyone seriously think that this wasn't the case?


This...
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:49:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By SIPCAT-C:
Originally Posted By Lancair:
Did anyone seriously think that this wasn't the case?


+1

who didn't think this existed?

people are so naive it's amazing.

+2

I always suspected, and thus I am not surprised. Why I like to buy face-to-face when possible.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:55:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:57:22 PM EST by Beachjumper12]
Originally Posted By Hedonist:
We're all marked, in numerous ways.

CCW database for starters.


+10

If you had not convinced yourself by now, your a fool.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:57:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:58:12 PM EST by Rich_V]
Originally Posted By shotar:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By shotar:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Does this REALLY surprise anyone?

Have you ever heard of a gun store having to look through their Forms to tell the police who bought a gun that was found at a crime scene?


Yes actually I have. They went to the files, searched the files and located the original 4473 which happened to list the guy had the gun. It was a laborious process, but that is the process.




That seems almost impossible. A freakin needle in a haystack.


Not really, 5 gunshops in the general area, found it at the third shop we went to. It's called police work.


You guys still do that?


I thought the usual trace was thru the OEM then follow the trail to first retail sale?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:59:04 PM EST
Considering how screwed up they have the NFA Registry Im really not concerned. I mean imagine how screwed up a list with millions would be.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:00:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:01:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 3:03:22 PM EST by Beachjumper12]
Originally Posted By beltfed74:
Considering how screwed up they have the NFA Registry Im really not concerned. I mean imagine how screwed up a list with millions would be.


Good point. But that would never stop .gov......
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:01:46 PM EST
The ATF may know what firearms I've bought but the have no idea what firearms I have

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:01:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:01:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By the_great_snag:
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Originally Posted By tc2k11:
JPFO ALERT: BATFE ACKNOWLEDGES A NATIONWIDE DATABASE OF GUN OWNERS.

"E-trace is a nationwide database maintained by the ATF that lists
a firearm's first purchaser, date of purchase and the retailer from
which it was purchased
. The information is compiled from police
records of gun purchases provided by local departments
, but until
today was only accessible by the ATF and the police department that
provided it." Read all of this article from August 2007 -
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/etrace-nj.htm

We have been telling you about this long standing national
registration scheme -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/batfe-and-gunreg.htm . It's time
for every gun owner to to notify every politician in America that a
national registration of firearms will not be tolerated. You have
two choices - save the 2A or destroy it. It's up to you.

This alert, on JPFO -
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20091104.htm


E-Trace only appears to be an issue if you're in a state/municipality that requires you to register your firearms.


It still sounds like a lot of info is being illegally compiled by fucktards who ignore some laws and enforce others to the point of lunacy...


We don't have registration here in MN. But, You have to obtain a permit to purchase a gun.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:02:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By beltfed74:
Considering how screwed up they have the NFA Registry Im really not concerned. I mean imagine how screwed up a list with millions would be.


+1

Keeping a database the size of the NFA Registry, let alone of all firearms sales is hard. And what incentive does the ATF have for keeping a good database? Zilch. No profits, no stock options, just a government paycheck that comes in no matter how good or bad the database is.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:03:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By shotar:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Does this REALLY surprise anyone?

Have you ever heard of a gun store having to look through their Forms to tell the police who bought a gun that was found at a crime scene?


Yes actually I have. They went to the files, searched the files and located the original 4473 which happened to list the guy had the gun. It was a laborious process, but that is the process.




That seems almost impossible. A freakin needle in a haystack.


Not really, 5 gunshops in the general area, found it at the third shop we went to. It's called police work.


No shit. (not meant to be an insult to the poster)

4473s are registration.

I know more than one dealer who has gone through this.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:04:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Originally Posted By Hedonist:
We're all marked, in numerous ways.

CCW database for starters.


+10

If you had not convinced yourself by now, your a fool.


It's one of the risks when applying for a CCW. They know who has them and they have no clue to those that get the hand me downs or the thugs that get the stolen ones. Thats why these gun control laws put the cuffs on the good people and not the bad.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:04:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Originally Posted By Hedonist:
We're all marked, in numerous ways.

CCW database for starters.


+10

If you had not convinced yourself by now, your a fool.

Here in the NJ you know you are on the 'list' as soon as you apply for a FID card. Fingerprints and all information sent to the state police.


Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:08:57 PM EST
Good thing I sold all mine.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:10:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lancair:
Originally Posted By beltfed74:
Considering how screwed up they have the NFA Registry Im really not concerned. I mean imagine how screwed up a list with millions would be.


+1

Keeping a database the size of the NFA Registry, let alone of all firearms sales is hard. And what incentive does the ATF have for keeping a good database? Zilch. No profits, no stock options, just a government paycheck that comes in no matter how good or bad the database is.

Power.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:10:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 3:11:03 PM EST by jimdicks]
Color me shocked.

No.

Really.

I don't believe it.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:15:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 3:16:11 PM EST by ipsilateral_7]
2007. I wasn't shocked then, and I'm not shocked now............
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:18:48 PM EST
4473
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:20:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By krpind:
Does this REALLY surprise anyone?

Have you ever heard of a gun store having to look through their Forms to tell the police who bought a gun that was found at a crime scene?


Yep.. I've had to do it a couple dozen times. It's a real pain in the ass when the ATF is looking for a 10 year old 4473.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:28:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeliBoy:
4473


Wished they would destroy those after 30 days....
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:29:32 PM EST
Any FFL purchase folks. It's registered.

The thing is, when they start to come and get them, is can they find them. With over 100 million guns and less people to go find them I don't think they can get them in one day. Be vigilant
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:36:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1cheapshot:
Any FFL purchase folks. It's registered.

The thing is, when they start to come and get them, is can they find them. With over 100 million guns and less people to go find them I don't think they can get them in one day. Be vigilant



Elections have consequences. Ant-Gun people like the Brady tards, pay tons of money to elected officials to pass laws that will eventually ban all firearms. Thank god I lost mine in a boating accident.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:38:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By SIPCAT-C:
Originally Posted By gregert12:
an American Hunter magazine I was looking at today debunked this as a myth


American Hunter is probably wrong.


if YOU were the ATF, wouldn't YOU keep a record on gun owners? Sure you would. Why not?

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:41:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lancair:
Originally Posted By beltfed74:
Considering how screwed up they have the NFA Registry Im really not concerned. I mean imagine how screwed up a list with millions would be.


+1

Keeping a database the size of the NFA Registry, let alone of all firearms sales is hard. And what incentive does the ATF have for keeping a good database? Zilch. No profits, no stock options, just a government paycheck that comes in no matter how good or bad the database is.


Really? There is nothing difficult about storing electronic transfers of firearms. It would be hard not to keep track of all the NICS checks. In the world we live in now, every electronic transaction we make leaves some kind of trace. All someone would have to do is know where and how to look. I don't think the ATF is the only government entity who has stock in knowing where guns are going.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:47:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
Once a gun buyer always a gun owner. A serial number doesn't mater they know you own guns.
yep, you're then on 'THE LIST'

Then it is up to you on what list you're on.
The list that gets in the box car.
Or the list of terrorists at large.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:52:16 PM EST
This is the real reason why the gungrabber's refer to the private sales that occur at gun shows as a loophole.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:59:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By jimdicks:
This is the real reason why the gungrabber's refer to the private sales that occur at gun shows as a loophole.


This is truth. Pay attention.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:59:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lancair:
Originally Posted By beltfed74:
Considering how screwed up they have the NFA Registry Im really not concerned. I mean imagine how screwed up a list with millions would be.


+1

Keeping a database the size of the NFA Registry, let alone of all firearms sales is hard. And what incentive does the ATF have for keeping a good database? Zilch. No profits, no stock options, just a government paycheck that comes in no matter how good or bad the database is.


LOL no kidding...
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:02:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar:

Why bother ATF when there are only 5 shops in the area and this appeared to be a new high point?? If I'd known only one of those shops carried high points, it would have reduced my workload a bit but oh well, I got to browse gunshops while being paid so I'm not feeling a downside here.


So cops get to search those forms even when the gun didn't come from that store?

And they get to see what ANYONE has bought.

That doesn't seem right.

No knock on you...but that seems like bullshit that the police should be able to do that. That kind of stuff should need a warrant.

Hell there was a great chance that gun wasn't local.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:03:35 PM EST
goshdamn those arrogant fuckers!

I fucking HATE the ATF.
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