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Posted: 9/24/2005 2:48:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 2:53:10 PM EDT by killingmachine123]
Is it too much to ask to be treated with a little respect while crossing the border. The guys on the canadian side searched my car and were very polite about it, except when I asked the ladies inside to use the restroom after they were through rifling through my car.

The people on the American side were total jerks on the way back. When I was sent inside, a young guy was a dick right off the bat when I told him that I did not have my birth certificate or pasport on me (which I have never needed before).

Mind you I was as polite as I could have been until I appoligised for not having the proper paperz. At that point he once again snaped at me and told not to be sorry. I then sarted to appoligise again, but stopped myself and said that I was actually not sorry and had absolutly no remorse for not bringing the proper forms of ID. He then yelled at me to sit down. The fact that there were several places to sit down in the place, and my not wanting to get in trouble for sitting in the wrong sector, I decided to ask were I should sit. At this time he really snapped and I though that he was going to throw the stapeler at me as he screamed "just sit down!"

Was it to much to ask to be treated like a citizen in my own country?

[/rant off]

ETA: tired to fix some spelling before the gramar Nazis show up.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:51:11 PM EDT
Being a Citizen doesn't seem to carry too much weight around here anymore.......
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:51:42 PM EDT
Did you ask for a supervisor and complain about the way you were treated or did you just sit down and take it like a little bitch?

What have you done about it since then? Who have you called? Who have you complained to about it other than us?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:51:45 PM EDT
I would have told him to fuck himself the very first time he raised his voice to me. I hope you got his badge number and report him to his superiors!
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:52:23 PM EDT
You did not have your papers in order, you are a bad citizen.....



Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:53:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 2:54:04 PM EDT by SPECTRE]
Just come down to the southern border, no hassles at all. In fact, I doubt they would even notice you.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:55:10 PM EDT
As a US citizen you have no duty to stop, or sit, for any customs/INS agent. There is nothing they can do to you for refusing to follow their directives. They can try and stop you all they want, and most folks do because they think they have to.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:55:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:
Did you ask for a supervisor and complain about the way you were treated or did you just sit down and take it like a little bitch?

What have you done about it since then? Who have you called? Who have you complained to about it other than us?



It was pretty clear who the guys in charge were. It must be a running joke as to this guys behavior, as everyone cleared out when he started in on me, and there was some snikering about it one their way out. I usually dont waste my time trying to obtain satifaction in such matters, as the guys above him clearly did not have a problem with it.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:56:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pieceofstink:
As a US citizen you have no duty to stop, or sit, for any customs/INS agent. There is nothing they can do to you for refusing to follow their directives. They can try and stop you all they want, and most folks do because they think they have to.



Can you site a source on this one. Those guys did not seem to be messing around.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:56:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 2:58:00 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
I would have told him to fuck himself the very first time he raised his voice to me. I hope you got his badge number and report him to his superiors!



+1

But you and I would have been put in jail until they wanted to release us. You know, it's called "enemy combatant". Be thrown in jail for as long as the Homeland decides and you don't get a "get out of jail" card until you conform.



What did you do dad?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:57:35 PM EDT
He asks for some paperwork.
So you say you don't have that paperwork, and apologize.
He says no big deal.
So you apologize again.
So then he says no need to apologize.
So you apologize again, stop then pipe up you aren't apologizing.


Then he gets tired of you repeating the same stuff over and over again.

He tells you to grab a seat.
You of course ask which seat you should take.
He yells at you to sit down.

You sit down.

I am reading that right?

All the parts in red are where you are being an idiot.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:58:04 PM EDT
Bridge or tunnel?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:58:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 2:59:57 PM EDT by cluster]
next time wear a towel/rag and they will simply wave you in...
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:03:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
He asks for some paperwork.
So you say you don't have that paperwork, and apologize.
He says no big deal.
So you apologize again.
So then he says no need to apologize.
So you apologize again, stop then pipe up you aren't apologizing.


Then he gets tired of you repeating the same stuff over and over again.

He tells you to grab a seat.
You of course ask which seat you should take.
He yells at you to sit down.

You sit down.

I am reading that right?

All the parts in red are where you are being an idiot.



He's not being an idiot. Americans are trained to say they are sorry before they need too or even if they should. Americans are trained to obey their government.



What is missing? If you don't act like Pavlov's dog in America, you are labeled as a deranged whacko.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:05:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
He asks for some paperwork.
So you say you don't have that paperwork, and apologize.
He says no big deal.
So you apologize again.
So then he says no need to apologize.
So you apologize again, stop then pipe up you aren't apologizing.


Then he gets tired of you repeating the same stuff over and over again.

He tells you to grab a seat.
You of course ask which seat you should take.
He yells at you to sit down.

You sit down.

I am reading that right?

All the parts in red are where you are being an idiot.



He did not say that it was not a big deal. He stated that I had no way to prove that I was an American citzen while interupting me mid sentance. I must reinterate that he was a total dick from the get go. An attitude such as his while not wearing a badge would routinely end up with his being taken outside by customers in a different job.

By the time that I was asking where to sit, albeit a legitimate question, he had already taken it to a point where my being civil could not have gotten me anywhere. I realize that I was being a total asshole AFTER I was laughed at and treated worse than I have been treated in a very long time. In MY OWN COUNTRY to boot!

And, it was the tunnel.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:06:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
He asks for some paperwork.
So you say you don't have that paperwork, and apologize.
He says no big deal.
So you apologize again.
So then he says no need to apologize.
So you apologize again, stop then pipe up you aren't apologizing.


Then he gets tired of you repeating the same stuff over and over again.

He tells you to grab a seat.
You of course ask which seat you should take.
He yells at you to sit down.

You sit down.

I am reading that right?

All the parts in red are where you are being an idiot.



You missed the part where the fed was snapping at him. Your reading-fu is weak!
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:08:56 PM EDT
what's this passport birth certificate shit?
I've never needed more than a driver's license
the rule might be getting changed in a year or two, but right now it's not required

I said might because if you all remember, a day or two after the news reported that whatever department it is that handles the entry rules was going to require a passport bush came out and said that was the first he had heard about it and that he didn't like that new rule

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54690-2005Apr14.html

President Bush said yesterday that he was surprised by his administration's plans to require U.S. citizens to show a passport when reentering the country from Mexico, Canada and the Caribbean, and he ordered an administration review of whether the entry rules should be relaxed.


oh, and him being surprised by a major policy change from one of the departments that are under the executive branch made me laugh. he really is clueless sometimes about what's going on
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:10:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pieceofstink:
As a US citizen you have no duty to stop, or sit, for any customs/INS agent. There is nothing they can do to you for refusing to follow their directives. They can try and stop you all they want, and most folks do because they think they have to.



That sounds like a good way to become DEAD

If you blow through the border crossing you are asking for much more than someone yelling at you to sit down.

You will need a passport to go in and out of Canada in January of 2007, so get used to it now
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:13:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
He asks for some paperwork.
So you say you don't have that paperwork, and apologize.
He says no big deal.
So you apologize again.
So then he says no need to apologize.
So you apologize again, stop then pipe up you aren't apologizing.


Then he gets tired of you repeating the same stuff over and over again.

He tells you to grab a seat.
You of course ask which seat you should take.
He yells at you to sit down.

You sit down.

I am reading that right?

All the parts in red are where you are being an idiot.



You missed the part where the fed was snapping at him. Your reading-fu is weak!



I read it. I also read where he keeps repeating things and needs direction about where to simply sit.

The people manning the booths are there to do certain things, chi-tchat ain't one of them.

Just like when I go to IL, and have to go on the toll roads. I expect the toll takers to give me my change QUICKLY, not make small talk.

Just like the other day I stopped a person.................. They parked in a parking stall. No license. So I tells them the would have to walk from here on. They asked me about where they could park. I told them they were, fine, legal, ok, to park where they were. They started raising their voice saying it was my fault they were parked there....................... After arguing for a while they realized what I was saying............ Why do I think something similar went on in this tale of woe?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:15:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Reload_em:

Originally Posted By pieceofstink:
As a US citizen you have no duty to stop, or sit, for any customs/INS agent. There is nothing they can do to you for refusing to follow their directives. They can try and stop you all they want, and most folks do because they think they have to.



That sounds like a good way to become DEAD

If you blow through the border crossing you are asking for much more than someone yelling at you to sit down.

You will need a passport to go in and out of Canada in January of 2007, so get used to it now



yup. just go through and ignore the guards and they'll beat the living shit out of you like the guy in Niagara Falls recently was taking to court for after he kicked the shit out of a chinese national who ran
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:22:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:
He stated that I had no way to prove that I was an American citzen



Sooooo........a drivers license doesn't mean anything anymore?
what a bunch of bs, I guess I'll start carrying one of my birth certificates too

I wonder why drivers licenses are no good, could this be one of the reasons?
www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/092005/09232005/131946
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:24:04 PM EDT
sit the heck down, you dont need anyone to tell you which one. jesus i would have yelled at you too. sounds alittle harsh but dang he said to stop saying sorry but you didnt stop, you just asked for it then.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:24:21 PM EDT
Reality

I've posted it before, but hey, why not again.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:32:42 PM EDT
At least they didn't intentionally damage your car. The last two delivery trucks we sent through the border ended-up with several thousand dollars with of intentional damage after returning from a delivery in Mexico. It took a Ford dealer in Brownsville about 40 hours of work (at an expensive price per hour!) to get the last truck running well enough again to make it back to SC. We lost a couple of our larger customers over this, but we will never make an employee have to deal with those thugs or risk a vehicle through customs again. It isn't worth the risk of dealing with those cops.

As far as my personal experiences go, the only times I've been out of the country for the past two decades were to go to France and to South Africa. The cops in each of those countries were polite and helpful. It was a very different experience from dealing with the rude cops at the border to this country.z
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:34:40 PM EDT
States have traditionally not required proof of citizenship for a driver's license, just proof of residency. So, a driver's license does not prove citizenship. This is starting to change, I had to show a birth certificate after I lost my license last year. Fortunately, my photo was in the computer system or I would have been screwed since I didn't have any other "valid" photo ID as the 2nd piece of ID data required.

Rick
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:37:37 PM EDT
Nothing has changed. A driver license is a form of identity. A certified birth certificate is a proof of citizenship. I had to prove my identity and citizenship when I returned from Canada more then ten years ago.

travel.state.gov/travel/tips/brochures/brochures_1229.html#u

"PASSPORTS: U.S. citizens who travel to a country where a valid U.S. passport is not required will need documentary evidence of their U.S. citizenship and identity. Proof of U.S. citizenship includes an expired U.S. passport, a certified (original) birth certificate, Certificate of Naturalization, Certificate of Citizenship, or Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States. To prove identity, a valid driver's license or government identification card are acceptable provided they identify you by physical description or photograph. However, for travel overseas and to facilitate reentry into the U.S., a valid U.S. passport is the best documentation available and unquestionably proves your U.S. citizenship."
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:47:17 PM EDT
My understanding is that until YOU can prove that YOU are a citizen YOU will be treated as a non-citizen.... The onus is on YOU to prove your status.... The border staff must assume everyone trying to enter the country is a non citizen until it's proven otherwise...
Personally I've never had any problems with US border agents...
'Funny though... I get more questions/delays when crossing over on vacation in a minivan with the wife and kids than I do when going to a shoot with a van full of guns and not one, but two "visable" minority shootin' buddies
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:53:56 PM EDT
I had the reverse of your experience when I went to Windsor in Jan. 2004. We didn't know to bring our birth certificates and the Canadian border patrol guard was rude to us. The American Homeland Security guard was nice to us though.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:56:25 PM EDT
ETA-when I went I went via the bridge. WHen I came back it was via the tunnel.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:59:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 4:01:23 PM EDT by killingmachine123]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
sit the heck down, you dont need anyone to tell you which one. jesus i would have yelled at you too. sounds alittle harsh but dang he said to stop saying sorry but you didnt stop, you just asked for it then.



I dont understand what is so difficult to understand about the fact that there were two distinct areas in which one could sit. I simply asked, as to confirm which area was designated for people like myself.

And although I guess a DL does not prove citizenship, I would hope that anyone would have been treated better on this side of the border.

If one were to behave as the man behind the counter did at any other job, he would last mabey half a day before being fired. Bottom line.

ETA: Make no mistake about the fact that I was being an asshole when I asked the question, it did indeed need to know, as I still had nothing but respect for the guys that were outside actually doing their job. No need for me to make it any harder on them.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:02:31 PM EDT
I've been going to Canada for trips since the 70s and have almost always had the same experience.

Canadian border patrol = nice

American border patrol = jerks

Maybe they thought I was French

GM
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:08:36 PM EDT
Current law states that you need only have a driver's license to get back into the US from Canada, not a a passport or birth cirtificate.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:08:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By goodmedicine:
I've been going to Canada for trips since the 70s and have almost always had the same experience.

Canadian border patrol = nice

American border patrol = jerks

Maybe they thought I was French

GM



I will most certainly say that this is the first time that I have been harrassed while crossing period. Hopefully that guy was just having a bad day. However by the way his co-workers acted, I dont think that is the case at all.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:12:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 4:20:16 PM EDT by brushdog]

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:
Is it too much to ask to be treated with a little respect while crossing the border. The guys on the canadian side searched my car and were very polite about it, except when I asked the ladies inside to use the restroom after they were through rifling through my car.

The people on the American side were total jerks on the way back. When I was sent inside, a young guy was a dick right off the bat when I told him that I did not have my birth certificate or pasport on me (which I have never needed before).

Mind you I was as polite as I could have been until I appoligised for not having the proper paperz. At that point he once again snaped at me and told not to be sorry. I then sarted to appoligise again, but stopped myself and said that I was actually not sorry and had absolutly no remorse for not bringing the proper forms of ID. He then yelled at me to sit down. The fact that there were several places to sit down in the place, and my not wanting to get in trouble for sitting in the wrong sector, I decided to ask were I should sit. At this time he really snapped and I though that he was going to throw the stapeler at me as he screamed "just sit down!"

Was it to much to ask to be treated like a citizen in my own country?

[/rant off]

ETA: tired to fix some spelling before the gramar Nazis show up.



The incident you described is unacceptable. I would call the port where this happened at and ask to speak to a supervisor. I would tell him the exact time and date that this happened along with the name or description of the officer. Let the supervisor know that you are going to follow up the phone call with a letter to the Port Director and your US Senator.

There is absolutely no reason that this officer can't perform his duties in a professional manner. He is a representative of his agency and our country and deserves whatever he has comming to him.



help.customs.gov/cgi-bin/customs.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=29&p_created=1043364935&p_sid=uI1NGoQh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX­3Jvd19jbnQ9MTQmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcH­Y9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWF­yY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1tYWtl­IGEgY29tcGxhaW50&p_li=&p_topview=1
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:13:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kroagnon:
Current law states that you need only have a driver's license to get back into the US from Canada, not a a passport or birth cirtificate.



Not according to the U.S. State department. A driver license does not prove citizenship.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:16:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By goodmedicine:
I've been going to Canada for trips since the 70s and have almost always had the same experience.

Canadian border patrol = nice

American border patrol CUSTOMS = jerks

Maybe they thought I was French

GM



I had some Canadian Customs Officer yell at me because I didn't know my father-in-law had half a pack of cigarettes in his pocket when I crossed. Another time I had one give me the third degree about what kind of guns I owned. He asked me over and over if I had one with me until he finally let me pass.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:25:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pieceofstink:
As a US citizen you have no duty to stop, or sit, for any customs/INS agent. There is nothing they can do to you for refusing to follow their directives. They can try and stop you all they want, and most folks do because they think they have to.



Did your parents have any children that lived? Do you enjoy being this utterly stupid in public? You're probably one of those dumb fucks that thinks he doesn't have to pay income taxes and freeloads off of the rest of us.

As noted you want to try and justify your blithering bullshit?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:32:27 PM EDT
Dude, you were being punked! Didn't you see Ashton Kutcher hiding behind that coke machine.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:33:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Morning_Wood:
Dude, you were being punked! Didn't you see Ashton Kutcher hiding behind that coke machine.



That's just wrong.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:38:24 PM EDT
I ran into a TSA dickhead last year at SEATAC who must have gone to the same charm school as your customs agent. The moment he started bitching at me I firmly told him to get his supervisor to to screen me because of his attitude. He did, his supervisor asked why, I told him, and I took some satisfaction in watching the dickhead snivel as his supervisor told him to get back to work.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:48:02 PM EDT
I've only gone through the border into the US in airports and I went to traveling with my Passport only a long time ago. Never had any trouble other than a Canadian imigration agent asking me wierd crap like whether I'd ever had a DUI and stuff.

Bottom line: If you don't have a passport get one. Much easier to travel with one than a drivers license and worrying about what else you need. I use a passport even on domestic flights but if you're going to another country it's a no brainer.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:54:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
He asks for some paperwork.
So you say you don't have that paperwork, and apologize.
He says no big deal.
So you apologize again.
So then he says no need to apologize.



Actually, that isn't what he said. But feel free to make excuses for the JBT. You always do.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:20:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
sit the heck down, you dont need anyone to tell you which one. jesus i would have yelled at you too. sounds alittle harsh but dang he said to stop saying sorry but you didnt stop, you just asked for it then.



I dont understand what is so difficult to understand about the fact that there were two distinct areas in which one could sit. I simply asked, as to confirm which area was designated for people like myself.

And although I guess a DL does not prove citizenship, I would hope that anyone would have been treated better on this side of the border.

If one were to behave as the man behind the counter did at any other job, he would last mabey half a day before being fired. Bottom line.

ETA: Make no mistake about the fact that I was being an asshole when I asked the question, it did indeed need to know, as I still had nothing but respect for the guys that were outside actually doing their job. No need for me to make it any harder on them.



Let me guess. You had to park up top and then walk down to the building closest to the lanes. That's the INS side of the operation. I know they're all integrated, but it still doesn't work that way. I used to work for Customs and after 09/11 a number of officers started pushing the whole "proof of citizenship" issue.

Technically, you have to be able to proove citizenship. It's gets old hearing people answer with Ohio, Michigan, Virginia, etc. when asked country of citizenship. I don't agree with what happened to you if it's an accurate representation of what occurred. The officer in question sounds like an ass. Be glad that they let you in though. They could have returned you to Canada to await proof of citizenship. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:28:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:

The people on the American side were total jerks on the way back. When I was sent inside, a young guy was a dick right off the bat when I told him that I did not have my birth certificate or pasport on me (which I have never needed before).

Mind you I was as polite as I could have been until I appoligised for not having the proper paperz.

At that point he once again snaped at me and told not to be sorry.

I then sarted to appoligise again, but stopped myself and said that I was actually not sorry and had absolutly no remorse for not bringing the proper forms of ID.

He then yelled at me to sit down.

The fact that there were several places to sit down in the place, and my not wanting to get in trouble for sitting in the wrong sector, I decided to ask were I should sit.

At this time he really snapped and I though that he was going to throw the stapeler at me as he screamed "just sit down!"




Bunny head read the above. What part did I miss. I re-paragraphed it so it is easier to read............

Sorry, I have way too much experience asking people for their licenses, have them hand them to me, then start tearing up their car. When I ask them what they are looking for the say insurance card or registration. I tell them I didn't ask for that stuff, and I don't need it. About 50% don't even slow down when I say that. Some take 3-4 times of repeating before they get it.

The only time I ask for registration is when the registration status was part of the reaon for the stop.

So with that experience one might wonder if the customs agent was asking questions off a list................. Then someone got locked into not having documents that were on the list............

I know that real world experience is no match for what you think from the overstuffed chair by the computer that is surrounded by the cardboard box fort you built.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:50:43 PM EDT
Well, I'll just throw in my 2 cents because I happen to be one of those JBT's that work at the border... not California Hiway Patrol JBT, but JBT none the less I suppose.

First off, we're not hearing the whole story here, but I'll refrain from going any further with the he said she said bull. You were sent in because you only had a drivers license and claimed to be a USC. Ok, that's cool. I see that all the time, and honestly, its the norm. If I were to send anyone in for that reason alone, I'd get my ass chewed for not doing what I'm suppose to do, and that is, to ask freaking questions.

Now, in most cases, the more questions I ask, the more people get pissed because I'm holding them up. If you don't like being held up, tough. Just answer the questions without getting pissy, and you'll be on your way in no time. If you want to act pissy and become evasive in your answers because you think you "have rights", then you'll be questioned further. Hell, you'll probably even have your car looked at too. Here's the deal, your rights at the border are severely limited. The establishment of the Customs Service, and the task that we perform were put into the Constitution before the Bill of Rights was written. The Founding Fathers knew the importance of a secure border way back then, and thats why it was written like it was. You have no right to privacy or unreasonable search and siezure. An inspector can look your car without probable cause, as apposed to a regular traffic stop performed by the police. This is called border law, and its been upheld by the Supreme Court (as much as I know how everyone loves them)

As for the inspectors attitude, its real easy to get into a foul mood. Its kinda like when Newman talks about why postal workers are as mad as they are. Because the mail never stops. Well, think of the border as the mail. The traffic never stops. And you get the same stupid answers to the most matter of fact questions ever imagined, it gets real old, real fast.

Now, I'm only going to defend the agency as a whole, and not this individual inspector. You can get some real tools asking you questions. I work with them. So, you get to deal with them for the limited time your next to that booth. I get to deal with them everyday.

Now, besides only having a drivers license, which should not have been an issue. I don't know what to tell you. Sorry maybe? Until I'm 14 hours into a 16 hour shift, I try to treat every traveler I come into contact with just as nice as I would be to my grandparents. But mind you, I'm not a meeter and greeter. We're not there to make you feel all warm and fuzzy, and despite what our feel good posters say, I will not say "Welcome to the United States."

However, you even admit that you eventually acted like asshole. Now, when that happens, you're gonna get snapped at. I'm sure any agency would become stern with you after you went into asshole mode. But like I said, we're really not getting the whole story here. We're getting the part of the story that's going to rile up all the people on this forum who really don't like law enforcement officers.

I will say this though, getting "upset" that a traveler does not have a passport is stupid. Its a waste a time, and they have better things to get their blood pressure up about.

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:57:43 PM EDT
I'm from Durkastan and I never have problems entering America.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:01:45 PM EDT
Just remember that if you owe ANY back child support, you cannot qualify for a passport - period. Thank you Slick Willy. It made our country so much better.

I have owed perpetual back child support on my only daughter for the last 20 years. She'll be 21 this year and several states still say I owe child support on her. With penalties, poor math skills on thier part and interest, they say I owe $33K and change. It started when they said I was behind by one month 20 years ago and went on from there. 3 years ago it was 8K. Now it's 33K. It was supposed to stop at age 18, 3 years ago.

I'm a prisoner of my own country!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:02:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:
Never had any trouble other than a Canadian imigration agent asking me wierd crap like whether I'd ever had a DUI and stuff.



www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/can-am/washington/visas/inadmissible-en.asp

Persons who are inadmissaible to Canada

Members of Inadmissible Classes include those who have been convicted of MINOR OFFENCES (including shoplifting, theft, assault, dangerous driving, unauthorized possession of a firearm, possession of illegal substances, etc.), or of INDICTABLE CRIMINAL OFFENCES (including assault with a deadly weapon, manslaughter, etc.). As well, those who have been convicted of DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED (DWI) are considered Members of an Inadmissible Class. Driving while under the influence of alcohol is regarded as an extremely serious offence in Canada.

Those who have received TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS (including parking/speeding tickets, etc.) and other minor violations (i.e. littering, etc.) most likely will NOT be prohibited from entering Canada. Similarly, those who have JUVENILE CONVICTIONS (convictions for crimes committed while under age 18) most likely will NOT be prohibited from entering Canada unless they could have been tried as an adult for their offences.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:05:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
sit the heck down, you dont need anyone to tell you which one. jesus i would have yelled at you too. sounds alittle harsh but dang he said to stop saying sorry but you didnt stop, you just asked for it then.



I dont understand what is so difficult to understand about the fact that there were two distinct areas in which one could sit. I simply asked, as to confirm which area was designated for people like myself.

And although I guess a DL does not prove citizenship, I would hope that anyone would have been treated better on this side of the border.

If one were to behave as the man behind the counter did at any other job, he would last mabey half a day before being fired. Bottom line.

ETA: Make no mistake about the fact that I was being an asshole when I asked the question, it did indeed need to know, as I still had nothing but respect for the guys that were outside actually doing their job. No need for me to make it any harder on them.



true, but being an ass to another ass doesnt help
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:07:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Bunny head read the above. What part did I miss. I re-paragraphed it so it is easier to read............

Sorry, I have way too much experience asking people for their licenses, have them hand them to me, then start tearing up their car. When I ask them what they are looking for the say insurance card or registration. I tell them I didn't ask for that stuff, and I don't need it. About 50% don't even slow down when I say that. Some take 3-4 times of repeating before they get it.

The only time I ask for registration is when the registration status was part of the reaon for the stop.

So with that experience one might wonder if the customs agent was asking questions off a list................. Then someone got locked into not having documents that were on the list............

I know that real world experience is no match for what you think from the overstuffed chair by the computer that is surrounded by the cardboard box fort you built.



It's a good thing you didn't go into medicine with an attitude like that. You as a child-->"But mommy, I told you I wanted the Monopoly game. It was even on the list I gave you!"

God forbid someone show an American citizen a little patience. And when I'm not in my cardboard fort I actually interact with <gasp> other human beings and treat them with respect. And if they don't happen to bring records from their other doctor, like they are asked to do, then I don't throw a shit fit. And, yes, I'm familiar with the shit fits Customs and Immigration officers throw when you present information to them that is out of order than what they have on their list or if their bowels don't happen to be regular that day.

And even though you broke the post down into paragraphs (thank you!), the only thing it made more clear is that the Immigration officer threw an unwarrented shit fit.

You have serious control issues. But you already know that.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:07:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Flakchak:
Well, I'll just throw in my 2 cents because I happen to be one of those JBT's that work at the border... not California Hiway Patrol JBT, but JBT none the less I suppose.

First off, we're not hearing the whole story here, but I'll refrain from going any further with the he said she said bull. You were sent in because you only had a drivers license and claimed to be a USC. Ok, that's cool. I see that all the time, and honestly, its the norm. If I were to send anyone in for that reason alone, I'd get my ass chewed for not doing what I'm suppose to do, and that is, to ask freaking questions.

Now, in most cases, the more questions I ask, the more people get pissed because I'm holding them up. If you don't like being held up, tough. Just answer the questions without getting pissy, and you'll be on your way in no time. If you want to act pissy and become evasive in your answers because you think you "have rights", then you'll be questioned further. Hell, you'll probably even have your car looked at too. Here's the deal, your rights at the border are severely limited. The establishment of the Customs Service, and the task that we perform were put into the Constitution before the Bill of Rights was written. The Founding Fathers knew the importance of a secure border way back then, and thats why it was written like it was. You have no right to privacy or unreasonable search and siezure. An inspector can look your car without probable cause, as apposed to a regular traffic stop performed by the police. This is called border law, and its been upheld by the Supreme Court (as much as I know how everyone loves them)

As for the inspectors attitude, its real easy to get into a foul mood. Its kinda like when Newman talks about why postal workers are as mad as they are. Because the mail never stops. Well, think of the border as the mail. The traffic never stops. And you get the same stupid answers to the most matter of fact questions ever imagined, it gets real old, real fast.

Now, I'm only going to defend the agency as a whole, and not this individual inspector. You can get some real tools asking you questions. I work with them. So, you get to deal with them for the limited time your next to that booth. I get to deal with them everyday.

Now, besides only having a drivers license, which should not have been an issue. I don't know what to tell you. Sorry maybe? Until I'm 14 hours into a 16 hour shift, I try to treat every traveler I come into contact with just as nice as I would be to my grandparents. But mind you, I'm not a meeter and greeter. We're not there to make you feel all warm and fuzzy, and despite what our feel good posters say, I will not say "Welcome to the United States."

However, you even admit that you eventually acted like asshole. Now, when that happens, you're gonna get snapped at. I'm sure any agency would become stern with you after you went into asshole mode. But like I said, we're really not getting the whole story here. We're getting the part of the story that's going to rile up all the people on this forum who really don't like law enforcement officers.

I will say this though, getting "upset" that a traveler does not have a passport is stupid. Its a waste a time, and they have better things to get their blood pressure up about.





Time for a new career??
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