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Posted: 9/22/2005 3:51:58 PM EDT
www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill

article is long, but here's the Blackwater bashing tidbits:

"This vigilantism demonstrates the utter breakdown of the government," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights. "These private security forces have behaved brutally, with impunity, in Iraq. To have them now on the streets of New Orleans is frightening and possibly illegal."


"A possibly deadly incident involving Quinn's hired guns underscores the dangers of private forces policing American streets. On his second night in New Orleans, Quinn's security chief, Michael Montgomery, who said he worked for an Alabama company called Bodyguard and Tactical Security (BATS), was with a heavily armed security detail en route to pick up one of Quinn's associates and escort him through the chaotic city. Montgomery told me they came under fire from "black gangbangers" on an overpass near the poor Ninth Ward neighborhood. "

"One might ask, given the enormous presence in New Orleans of National Guard, US Army, US Border Patrol, local police from around the country and practically every other government agency with badges, why private security companies are needed, particularly to guard federal projects. "It strikes me...that that may not be the best use of money," said Illinois Senator Barack Obama"

Here's the real reason though:

"According to election records, Blackwater's CEO and co-founder, billionaire Erik Prince, has given tens of thousands to Republicans, including more than $80,000 to the Republican National Committee the month before Bush's victory in 2000. .."

"Prince, a staunch right-wing Christian, comes from a powerful Michigan Republican family, and his father..."


-------------

Expect the Blackwater bashing to take on the same proportion as Haliburton bashing. in the coming months.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:54:04 PM EDT
Freaking Libtards! Spreading misinformation as usual...
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:56:01 PM EDT
Those silly fucks. Blackwater should host a Veteran's Day Parade right in the middle of libtard America
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:59:11 PM EDT
Isn't it private companies who are hiring Blackwater?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:00:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill

article is long, but here's the Blackwater bashing tidbits:

"This vigilantism demonstrates the utter breakdown of the government," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights. "These private security forces have behaved brutally, with impunity, in Iraq. To have them now on the streets of New Orleans is frightening and possibly illegal."


"A possibly deadly incident involving Quinn's hired guns underscores the dangers of private forces policing American streets. On his second night in New Orleans, Quinn's security chief, Michael Montgomery, who said he worked for an Alabama company called Bodyguard and Tactical Security (BATS), was with a heavily armed security detail en route to pick up one of Quinn's associates and escort him through the chaotic city. Montgomery told me they came under fire from "black gangbangers" on an overpass near the poor Ninth Ward neighborhood. "

"One might ask, given the enormous presence in New Orleans of National Guard, US Army, US Border Patrol, local police from around the country and practically every other government agency with badges, why private security companies are needed, particularly to guard federal projects. "It strikes me...that that may not be the best use of money," said Illinois Senator Barack Obama"

Here's the real reason though:

"According to election records, Blackwater's CEO and co-founder, billionaire Erik Prince, has given tens of thousands to Republicans, including more than $80,000 to the Republican National Committee the month before Bush's victory in 2000. .."

"Prince, a staunch right-wing Christian, comes from a powerful Michigan Republican family, and his father..."


-------------

Expect the Blackwater bashing to take on the same proportion as Haliburton bashing. in the coming months.




I bet it's real easy to say shit like that, when your not the one getting shot at for no reason, in a city in the US. Our countries politicians need a good skull kicking, if they are aloud to be so ignorant and speak with such a gross lack of information, im not looking forward to the next 10, 20, 30 years.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:03:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:05:49 PM EDT
There was a great PBS frontline about PMCs in Iraq. Very interesting stuff.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:08:53 PM EDT
..................meanwhile, back at the ranch, Governor Blanco has requested an additional 15,000 federal troops for New Orleans.


"A possibly deadly incident....." WTF? Deadly for whom. It sounds like is was likely to be deadly for the gangbangers. I suppose the author believes that if BW wasn't present then the innocent "black gangbangers" wouldn't have been confronted.

Why doesn't the assfuck Ratner, worried about the utter breakdown of government, piss and mown about the confiscations.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:12:17 PM EDT
the liberals should go to blackwater and riot to express their anger.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:13:33 PM EDT
Blackwater is cool.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:15:46 PM EDT
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:17:50 PM EDT
More crying and lying as usual. I 'm beyond sick of it.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:20:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



Agreed....a double standard of sorts. That said, if I had been lumped into the "allowed to be armed" I would have been, too. I don't believe this is a reflection on Blackwater in particular. NO needed lots of security focused on the "gangbangers", not on the lawfully and responsibly armed.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:22:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
the liberals should go to blackwater and riot to express their anger.




TARGETS!
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:30:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
There was a great PBS frontline about PMCs in Iraq. Very interesting stuff.



How biased was it. PBS = leftist media most of the time
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:34:15 PM EDT
Last year, everyone was asking me what Blackwater was when I would wear my sweatshirt to school, now I just get funny looks.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:38:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Isn't it private companies who are hiring Blackwater?




Yup (stateside any way)
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:40:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 6:42:19 PM EDT by Reaganera0351]
Wait till they catch wind of the Dyncorp guy selling passes into the green zone.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:41:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
There was a great PBS frontline about PMCs in Iraq. Very interesting stuff.




Wave of the future, imo.

Using a PMC is waayyyy better than asking some third world shithole (Jordan) for troops.

Tis why I'm doing my MA thesis on Mercs in the Congo.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:41:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Reaganera0351:
Wait till they cacth wind of the Dyncorp guy selling passes into the green zone.




What?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:43:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 6:48:21 PM EDT by Reaganera0351]
Very small article in the paper, yesterdays Philly daily news.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/20/AR2005092001674.html
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:53:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill

article is long, but here's the Blackwater bashing tidbits:

"This vigilantism demonstrates the utter breakdown of the government," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights. "These private security forces have behaved brutally, with impunity, in Iraq. To have them now on the streets of New Orleans is frightening and possibly illegal."


"A possibly deadly incident involving Quinn's hired guns underscores the dangers of private forces policing American streets. On his second night in New Orleans, Quinn's security chief, Michael Montgomery, who said he worked for an Alabama company called Bodyguard and Tactical Security (BATS), was with a heavily armed security detail en route to pick up one of Quinn's associates and escort him through the chaotic city. Montgomery told me they came under fire from "black gangbangers" on an overpass near the poor Ninth Ward neighborhood. "

"One might ask, given the enormous presence in New Orleans of National Guard, US Army, US Border Patrol, local police from around the country and practically every other government agency with badges, why private security companies are needed, particularly to guard federal projects. "It strikes me...that that may not be the best use of money," said Illinois Senator Barack Obama"

Here's the real reason though:

"According to election records, Blackwater's CEO and co-founder, billionaire Erik Prince, has given tens of thousands to Republicans, including more than $80,000 to the Republican National Committee the month before Bush's victory in 2000. .."

"Prince, a staunch right-wing Christian, comes from a powerful Michigan Republican family, and his father..."


-------------

Expect the Blackwater bashing to take on the same proportion as Haliburton bashing. in the coming months.




I wondered how long it took this fuckstick to come along and try to nail someone.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:54:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
There was a great PBS frontline about PMCs in Iraq. Very interesting stuff.




Wave of the future, imo.

Using a PMC is waayyyy better than asking some third world shithole (Jordan) for troops.

Tis why I'm doing my MA thesis on Mercs in the Congo.



Please post or link to it when it's finished
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:00:56 PM EDT
hahaa..I love it.

Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:01:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



Blame the NO city government and the LA state government. Blackwater didn't make the fucking policy. Did you expect them to disarm in sympathy?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:03:58 PM EDT
Hell, libtards have bashed Blackwater on THIS site. I recall a thread from someone who shall remain brainless...errr, nameless spreading lies that Blackwater was helping with the gun confiscation.
And of course there was someone else, who shall also remain nameless who compared Blackwater employees in Iraq to Hessians in the Colonies during the American Revolution.
No shortage of idiots in this world.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:26:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bmick325:

Originally Posted By Spade:

Tis why I'm doing my MA thesis on Mercs in the Congo.



Please post or link to it when it's finished




Sure. Next September at the earliest. I'm only just starting (and I may be switching schools), but I'm gonna write it one way or another. I'm currently trying to focus it, so it's all data gathering now. The mistake many Master's candidates make I'm told is being too broad. Sources is another problem. I'm trying to get CIA documents for their operations there, which I do not know if the documents even exist. I've got a couple biographies to buy, and two of Mike Hoare's books which will hopefully lead to sources. I'd love to interview people but that may be hard. Once you get past the people who weren't really there, a lot of people are dead, and many people who would have good information are the type who if they don't want to be found, won't be found. Good pictures also seem few and far between. So it's a tricky assignment I have taken. But I want to focus on PMC's in Africa, in counter-insurgency.

Either way, it should be interesting and I'm probably gonna end up owning a FAL.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:28:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
And of course there was someone else, who shall also remain nameless who compared Blackwater employees in Iraq to Hessians in the Colonies during the American Revolution.




Who was that?

I would like to give them a history lesson.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 3:42:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



Blame the NO city government and the LA state government. Blackwater didn't make the fucking policy. Did you expect them to disarm in sympathy?



No, I expected them to only field security guards who met the licensing requirements for armed security under state law.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:02:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Isn't it private companies who are hiring Blackwater?



Shh!!

If you point out that the Blackwater guys are really acting like SECURITY GUARDS, it doesn't give the looneys at DU and the looneys here the chance to call them mercenaries and a "private army".
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:03:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



I would tend to agree.

If the law is the law, then it needs to be applied.

If, however, the law is so darn bad that it is stopping people hired for security from providing security in an emergency, then get rid of the damn law already.

Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:09:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 4:20:23 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By david_g17:
the liberals should go to blackwater and riot to express their anger.



The armed guard at the gate wouldn't let them in. They didn't have a guard at all for the longest time (you had to use a numerical passcode to open the gate....you still do after hours) but after the nasty buisness in Fallujah, they had to use security guards.

Frankly, the neighborhood down there wouldn't tolerate them well either.

It is kind of surreal to go there, because the entrance to their facility is literally at the end of a suburban street. You pass houses and fields and then run into a dead end and the Blackwater logo at a gate. If you didn't know what went on there, you would have no idea what actually happens. At the gate, you can't even hear any gunfire most of the time. Occasionally you see a chopper or two, but that's about it.

The place is also loaded with snakes.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:18:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Hell, libtards have bashed Blackwater on THIS site. I recall a thread from someone who shall remain brainless...errr, nameless spreading lies that Blackwater was helping with the gun confiscation.
And of course there was someone else, who shall also remain nameless who compared Blackwater employees in Iraq to Hessians in the Colonies during the American Revolution.
No shortage of idiots in this world.



Not just this site.

I have encountered that stupidity on several sites. I have heard about every conspiracy theory you can imagine when it comes to those "mercenaries" at Blackwater. You should have seen the hissy-fit people threw when I had actually been to the place several times and had met a bunch of contractors. Suddenly I became a special agent paid by Blackwater to cover up their activities by dismissing criticism of them on message boards and the like.

The ones who didn't make those allegations didn't believe I had ever been there, or had ever "trained" with the contractors.

Some people out there are just plain idiots.

One guy I know is smart and has an advanced degree, but when the four BW guys were killed last year he began speaking about how those BW guys are going to come back to the US and be used by government to confiscate weapons, etc.

He ignored me when I told him that the Wackenhutt employees who guard the Savanah nuclear weapons facility have more helicopters than BW, more belt fed machine guns than BW, AND they had federal arrest powers and an extremely liberal use of force policy (they can say stop or I'll shoot and mean it. You ignore them, they shoot you. And that's the way it should be...) and that these guys are working security at several .gov nuclear installations across the country with no gun confiscation for YEARS.

Most people wouldn't realize that the vast majority of nuclear security in this country is handled by private contractors who are usually better armed and trained than any SWAT team.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:35:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beefypeanut:
Last year, everyone was asking me what Blackwater was when I would wear my sweatshirt to school, now I just get funny looks.

If they offered a hooded sweatshirt with thier logo, I'd buy it in a second, too bad they only have un-hooded.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:42:38 AM EDT
As a resident of the State of Illinois I apologize to the rest of the counrty for Obama . I did not vote for him but people around here think he is the second coming.... NOT!
Maybe there is a need for private security because sometimes they are needed and work better than what is at hand.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:44:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Toratsugu:
As a resident of the State of Illinois I apologize to the rest of the counrty for Obama . I did not vote for him but people around here think he is the second coming.... NOT!
Maybe there is a need for private security because sometimes they are needed and work better than what is at hand.



Obama is black.

And he can actually make a coherent statement without sounding too looney.

Thus he is a rising Democratic star. If not 2008, then certainly by 2012 or 2016.

Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:45:27 AM EDT
Remember that Blackwater is very pro 2nd amendment. They hold NC CCW qualifcation classes and most of their courses are open to non-military/non-law enforcement. I loved my time at Blackwater and am certainly going back.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:46:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Reaganera0351:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Isn't it private companies who are hiring Blackwater?




Yup (stateside any way)



Nope, most Blackwater guys in NO were hired by the feds and were/are on contract to the DHS.
Some private copmpanies may have hired some, but the majoprity of them are working for the feds.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:49:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GetDown_M4A3:
Remember that Blackwater is very pro 2nd amendment. They hold NC CCW qualifcation classes and most of their courses are open to non-military/non-law enforcement. I loved my time at Blackwater and am certainly going back.



The instructors I have had and the interaction with the staff have all shown me a very strong 2nd vibe. That being said, I would be much happier if they would open the subgun courses and the like to civilians and allow them to rent the appropriate weapons from their store of weapons. Gunsite does it, and BW can too...
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:50:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By Reaganera0351:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Isn't it private companies who are hiring Blackwater?




Yup (stateside any way)



Nope, most Blackwater guys in NO were hired by the feds and were/are on contract to the DHS.
Some private copmpanies may have hired some, but the majoprity of them are working for the feds.



Believe it or not the federal government has a LOT of privately contracted security. Look up some of the Wackenhutt contracts with the federal government.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:51:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



Blame the NO city government and the LA state government. Blackwater didn't make the fucking policy. Did you expect them to disarm in sympathy?



No, I expected them to only field security guards who met the licensing requirements for armed security under state law.



Only problem with that is that they were working for the fedral government, not the state, not the city. The ones who were working for proivate industries would not ned a license if they are considered "in house" security for a company, at least thats how it is in most states. Since the majority of the Blackwater guys were/are working under contract with various Federal agencies, there is are obviously different rules.....
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:53:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By Reaganera0351:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Isn't it private companies who are hiring Blackwater?




Yup (stateside any way)



Nope, most Blackwater guys in NO were hired by the feds and were/are on contract to the DHS.
Some private copmpanies may have hired some, but the majoprity of them are working for the feds.



Believe it or not the federal government has a LOT of privately contracted security. Look up some of the Wackenhutt contracts with the federal government.


I know this, one of my friends used to work for Wackenhutt on a federal account.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 6:02:14 AM EDT
I would rather have blackwater in my neighborhood than the police that themselves were taking part of the looting . . . .
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 6:09:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



I'm not a conservative and I have a big fucking problem with this.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 6:12:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
I know this, one of my friends used to work for Wackenhutt on a federal account.



I put it out there in case some silly person shows up and starts ranting about how it is illegal or improper for the federal government to employ private security personnel.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 6:25:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



Blame the NO city government and the LA state government. Blackwater didn't make the fucking policy. Did you expect them to disarm in sympathy?



No, I expected them to only field security guards who met the licensing requirements for armed security under state law.



Ah, so then it's still Blackwater's fault that the state granted them an exemption. Your argument makes no sense whatsoever.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 6:27:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



I'm not a conservative and I have a big fucking problem with this.



If you have any sense whatsoever, your problem should be with the state of New Orleans. Blackwater was just doing their job.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 6:35:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some conservatives have a real problem with Blackwater employees, who did not hold LA armed guard licenses, being allowed to openly carry in NOLA while lawfully owned firearms were being confiscated from homeowners in their own homes.



Blame the NO city government and the LA state government. Blackwater didn't make the fucking policy. Did you expect them to disarm in sympathy?



No, I expected them to only field security guards who met the licensing requirements for armed security under state law.



Ah, so then it's still Blackwater's fault that the state granted them an exemption. Your argument makes no sense whatsoever.



The state may not have granted them an exemption, they may have had no say in it at all, or the balckwater guys working in state are all already licensed. Or The state may have pushed through the licenses for the blackwater guys. But my guess is that they don't need them because they are working for the feds. I can't say for sure cuz I'm not there and I don't work for them.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:08:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 7:10:13 AM EDT by Hooptie]
The PBS Frontline episode about private security firms working in Iraq, titled "Private Warriors", can be found here
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:10:36 AM EDT
I do not understand why people get their panties so bunched up about lib's and what they think.


Find a hobby. Stay informed, but do something else.

Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:32:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Believe it or not the federal government has a LOT of privately contracted security. Look up some of the Wackenhutt contracts with the federal government.




Most things the government does are privately contracted. People just don't know about it.

Example: Argonne National Lab in IL is run by the University of Chicago.
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