Apple Releases Mac OS X Security Patches  
By David Morgenstern
October 4, 2004    

Apple Computer Inc. has released a security update for its Mac OS X client and server software, plugging vulnerabilities in a wide range of services, including file sharing, printing and QuickTime. The update is the third set of patches offered in the span of a month.

docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61798

Although dated on the cusp of September, Security Update 2004-09-30 was actually released Monday in the first full week of October. The update spans Mac OS X 2.8 and greater; Mac OS X 10.3.5, released in August, is the latest version.

The patches were offered through Apple's automatic Software Update service as well as from its download page.

The company identified some eight vulnerabilities in its latest patch release. Here is a rundown of the security fixes:

Image File Vulnerability. The wave of vulnerabilities relating to image files and libraries on all computing platforms continued as Apple stopped QuickTime's handling of a hacked BMP file that could allow "attackers to execute arbitrary code," the company said. Similar issues with PNG (portable network graphics) files were addressed in an August update.

AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) server vulnerabilities. Apple identified two problems related to its AFP server. One issue could allow a guest user to disconnect the server, while another could let guest users read data in a write-only directory. The company said the problem affects only machines running Version 10.3, aka Panther.

Printing systems. Apple fixed several issues relating to its implementation of the CUPS (Common Unix Printing System) hardcopy architecture. One issue left the server open to a DOS (denial of service) attack, and another allowed certain remote printing authentication methods to gain access to the passwords in the local log files.

Application vulnerabilities. Security problems with NetInfo Manager and ServerAdmin application, along with the Postfix mail server implementation, were treated.  

The NetInfo Manager issue, found only in OS X 10.3 systems, was subtle but could prove problematic to some IT managers. The utility software can enable root access to the machine, but after logging in as root, the software couldn't disable the access, even though the account appeared to be disabled.

Mac IT managers reported no early trouble installing the update.

"Most of these [vulnerabilities] are exploitable, but only in the most strange and bizarre sense," said Ron Hipschman, senior media specialist at San Francisco's Exploratorium science museum. While he said he is glad for the fixes, he didn't expect them to be readily exploited by attackers. "You'd have to be a real script kiddie to do so."

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1666363,00.asp

yawn…

Minor software issues that 'could' be used by a hacker…

"Most of these [vulnerabilities] are exploitable, but only in the most strange and bizarre sense," said Ron Hipschman, senior media specialist at San Francisco's Exploratorium science museum. While he said he is glad for the fixes, he didn't expect them to be readily exploited by attackers. "You'd have to be a real script kiddie to do so."

all fixed… unlke Microshaft…yawn

Andy

If you wanted to target a Mac machine, think of all the extra work you'd have to do to actually *find* one!  Either way, anything done with regards to software is only bad if Microsoft does it.  Even if they release cool stuff, because you see they are taking away money from other people who could have released the same software.  Microsoft is sooo baaaddd!!!  

OSX rocks so move along.

Thanks for the heads up.

Quoted: I used MAC OSX for the first time today. Intuitive? Ya F'in right! Even though I finally got the wireless network setup on it, it was such a PITA. I NEVER found the properties of the actual card, which wouldn't even show up in the virtual XP session and I could only connect to networks that had a broadcasted SSID, and even when it was broadcasted, I had to find ANOTHER area to choose WEP, the keys BIT count and the actual key. Airport? Why the F would they call it AIRPORT? God that's ghey. I know I have a microsoft mindset, but MAC OSX was NOT intuitive for configuration. Maybe to run apps with the neat little zoom icons for the apps at the bottom, but not configuration. I figure shit out for a LIVING, and 99% of the time I am overly successful, but this was a joke after all the hype I heard about it. Even the owner of the Mac was in complete agreement when I was ranting about the hype. I also couldn't believe the $3000 laptop only had ONE HUGE ugly mouse button, which made virtual XP and nightmare, but I'm sure someone will chime in a say, O but you can my a 10 bottom mouse for the Mac if you want, good for F'in you. I gave up on virtual XP real quick, it ran like a dog on that new $3000 laptop.

It's not intuitive at first. However, usually for a wireless network all you have to do is turn the Mac on. It will find it.

Quoted: I used MAC OSX for the first time today. Intuitive? Ya F'in right! Even though I finally got the wireless network setup on it, it was such a PITA. I NEVER found the properties of the actual card, which wouldn't even show up in the virtual XP session and I could only connect to networks that had a broadcasted SSID, and even when it was broadcasted, I had to find ANOTHER area to choose WEP, the keys BIT count and the actual key. Airport? Why the F would they call it AIRPORT? God that's ghey. I know I have a microsoft mindset, but MAC OSX was NOT intuitive for configuration. Maybe to run apps with the neat little zoom icons for the apps at the bottom, but not configuration. I figure shit out for a LIVING, and 99% of the time I am overly successful, but this was a joke after all the hype I heard about it. Even the owner of the Mac was in complete agreement when I was ranting about the hype. I also couldn't believe the $3000 laptop only had ONE HUGE ugly mouse button, which made virtual XP and nightmare, but I'm sure someone will chime in a say, O but you can my a 10 bottom mouse for the Mac if you want, good for F'in you. I gave up on virtual XP real quick, it ran like a dog on that new $3000 laptop.

You must not be too good at your job then.  Even PC lovers I know admit Macs are very intuitive.

So which is it? Are they tough or too idiot- simpleton easy?

And why does a machine other than a PC bother you PC guys so much? You PC guys enjoy whatever Billy pinches off for you; we Mac folks will enjoy our machines, hmm?

You can enjoy your machine. There's nothing wrong with a company that still makes its living off selling a highly proprietary hardware/OS combination to a fiercely loyal customer base who would rather have convenience than option and are willing to pay for it.

IBM made their living for 3 decades off of that business model (cough... AS/400 cough... until Bill Gates showed the world that you didn't have to buy your OS from your hardware provider at a significant premium for both.

Mac users are fiercely loyal and it's comparable technology. If you want to pay a premium for it, then go ahead. It works.

Seriously, thanks for the heads up. I found out someone, probably the wife, disabled the automated software update in System Preferences. I hadn't been updating since July.

worked on Macs extensively for 15 years and Windows for 5, Mac OS is totally superior.

you didn't have to buy your OS from your hardware provider at a significant premium for both.

Hack, cough...no, he just replaced IBM's OS with his crap.  Try buying a PC without paying the Microsoft tax.  It's even harder to buy a laptop without giving him money for nothing.  I finally bought 10 iBooks for $1049 (after rebate).  I was planning on keeping Linux on our laptops, but I couldn't find any nicer ones without being forced to buy XP so I punted and bought the FreeBSD ones.z

You're free to put something other than Windows on a PC.

Mac OS is tightly engineered for the VERY tight hardware spec. Just like AIX machines.

Windows has to be compatible with a variety of processors, motherboards, etc... out of the box. Same with Linux. Early on, Linux users faced a phenomenal maze of driver issues.

Mac OS is superior in that the Apple engineers only have to support a single architecture. Try supporting other flavors and you've got issues -- just like Apple had when it was late in the game to license their overpriced hardware spec to 3rd party manufacturers. OS/driver issues all over the place.

I WORK for an APPLE RETAIL store here in Texas.  OS X is a very stable and solid system with a unix based backbone. Add to the fact that to hack into a mac requires thousands of dollars worth of equipment and knowledge of their codex system and then maybe...just maybe you'll be able to get my laptop off of sleep mode.  I have been using mac for 10 years and have used both WINDOWS for about the same amount.  each does have an advantage however they are shrinking, with the advent of Microsoft making seamless swaping between the versions they make of mac and PC, its made life alot easier, on top of that, OS X is intutive, my mother, computer DUMB (didnt know how to turn it on even after being shown repeadtily) could run email, surf the net and type with in 3 days.  SO, maybe its more intutive for some more then others. however, with all the iapps (itunes, imovei, iphoto etc) all one has to do is PLAY with them and you figure stuff out, the interface is so warm and firendly, I dont feel like shit after I have been stuck in front of a mac typing a paper for 4 hours (im in college too) then as I do once im doing it at school in front of a Dell.  It is personal preferance however, i will say this much, I DO WISH apple would make a 2 button mouse and a 2 button on a laptop, but they are naturally different and dont run with the pack, what do you expect!  I got the OS update today, im not worried, for 10+ years using mac, i have seen only one virus, it was something that ran a bunny across a screen, it was funny, not destructive like most.  Also, SPYWARE forget it, never gonna happen to macs, my roomates computer turns on at nite for no reason....WONT ever occur on macs.  Im glad I dont have to deal with virus protection, whatever the F defines spyware or hackers.  You can have your WINTEL boxes however for thoes who enjoy using a computer would try a mac, several times and not just play with it once and call it quits.  Ya gotta spend more then 5 minutes with it at COMPusa to get a feel.  The apple retail stores offer FREE classes MON-FRI called switch at 6 ion which we get people who want to see how EASY it is to swap from PC TO MAC, and folks, it really is easy.  www.apple.com/retail to find a store near you. they are expanding and trust me, with the advent of the new iMac G5 its getting even better! I tried to give windows its fair shake, however again, a mac can do it all now, ya just gotta keep an open mind and investigate.

Mac OS X - 15 patches

WinXP - We are on Service Pack 2 now, along with countless amounts of updates and fixes.


You might not like Mac, but it does work.

Quoted: Quoted: I used MAC OSX for the first time today. Intuitive? Ya F'in right! Even though I finally got the wireless network setup on it, it was such a PITA. I NEVER found the properties of the actual card, which wouldn't even show up in the virtual XP session and I could only connect to networks that had a broadcasted SSID, and even when it was broadcasted, I had to find ANOTHER area to choose WEP, the keys BIT count and the actual key. Airport? Why the F would they call it AIRPORT? God that's ghey. I know I have a microsoft mindset, but MAC OSX was NOT intuitive for configuration. Maybe to run apps with the neat little zoom icons for the apps at the bottom, but not configuration. I figure shit out for a LIVING, and 99% of the time I am overly successful, but this was a joke after all the hype I heard about it. Even the owner of the Mac was in complete agreement when I was ranting about the hype. I also couldn't believe the $3000 laptop only had ONE HUGE ugly mouse button, which made virtual XP and nightmare, but I'm sure someone will chime in a say, O but you can my a 10 bottom mouse for the Mac if you want, good for F'in you. I gave up on virtual XP real quick, it ran like a dog on that new $3000 laptop. You must not be too good at your job then.  Even PC lovers I know admit Macs are very intuitive. So which is it? Are they tough or too idiot- simpleton easy? And why does a machine other than a PC bother you PC guys so much? You PC guys enjoy whatever Billy pinches off for you; we Mac folks will enjoy our machines, hmm?

I tried to explain this a while ago, and everyone jumped on me.  Macs make *some* things easy, but like MillerSHO found out, as soon as you want to do something that requires, you know, actual settings... it becomes a huge pain in the butt!  I had a user on the phone recently who went out of their way to tell me how "Macs are teh awesome" and "M$ is teh suck".  Then we got to the simple task of uploading a file via FTP and all I heard was them muttering and swearing on the other end.  I tried to talk them through it (they even thought they knew how) to no avail.  These types of people are lost whether they use a Mac OR Windows.  And, it's my opinion that someone who knows what they are doing can do it faster in Windows because the Mac tries to hide the user from anything scary.

Well for starters, FTP isn't something all of us do everyday. But that's super easy, you can do it easily, and with OSX it's built right in to the OS. It looks just like any other window, only it's your FTP.

Macs have been bedda bedda good to me!

Quoted: Well for starters, FTP isn't something all of us do everyday. But that's super easy, you can do it easily, and with OSX it's built right in to the OS. It looks just like any other window, only it's your FTP. Macs have been bedda bedda good to me!

agreed, like he said

FTP isnt something the average user would do,  again working in the retail store and handling tech issues and questions from customers, I have only had one person call and ask how to do it, and I walked him through it very very easily.  Its just a metter of knowing the interface, its not hidden, again education is the key to understanding, if one just went to www.apple.com/support and typed it into the search function, one could find a walk through online, also call us at the stores we love to help!

..."someone who knows what they are doing can do it faster in Windows because the Mac tries to hide the user from anything scary" Could you sound a little more elitist there? I take it you "know what you're doing" and I don't. Frankly, I could go on for a long time about how, when I'd use a PC, I'd wonder where my files were. Turns out I had to open a "browser" window- a File Viewer, just to look at my own machine! One window! Meanwhile (mind you I'm talking pre-OSX era here on both systems) on my Mac, I'd double click the hard drive and all my important items could be viewed. It was right there, no "properties", no goofing around with stupid tabs, right there. It was just like opening the hood of your car, you know right where the oil fill is. The PC? I'd open the hood, then have to open another box, then... Ack. So now, with OSX (and XP frankly), things are different. I am used to OSX now... Still don't like XP all that much. It looks pretty enough. But doesn't do anything for me. (sound familiar? It should, as you Mac bashers pretty much say the same thing, just reversed). I work, think, and act different from you. Why should we have the same computer?

Bottom line. You like PCs, I like Macs. If you don't like it, tough. Let's all stop clogging bandwidth about it. But while we're at it, my new dual 2.5 GHz G5 RoXXors my b0xx0rs. I don't care if PCs are up to 3 GHz or whatever. This machine is awesome.

Quoted: ..."someone who knows what they are doing can do it faster in Windows because the Mac tries to hide the user from anything scary" Could you sound a little more elitist there? I take it you "know what you're doing" and I don't. Frankly, I could go on for a long time about how, when I'd use a PC, I'd wonder where my files were. Turns out I had to open a "browser" window- a File Viewer, just to look at my own machine! One window! Meanwhile (mind you I'm talking pre-OSX era here on both systems) on my Mac, I'd double click the hard drive and all my important items could be viewed. It was right there, no "properties", no goofing around with stupid tabs, right there. It was just like opening the hood of your car, you know right where the oil fill is. The PC? I'd open the hood, then have to open another box, then... Ack. So now, with OSX (and XP frankly), things are different. I am used to OSX now... Still don't like XP all that much. It looks pretty enough. But doesn't do anything for me. (sound familiar? It should, as you Mac bashers pretty much say the same thing, just reversed). I work, think, and act different from you. Why should we have the same computer? Bottom line. You like PCs, I like Macs. If you don't like it, tough. Let's all stop clogging bandwidth about it. But while we're at it, my new dual 2.5 GHz G5 RoXXors my b0xx0rs. I don't care if PCs are up to 3 GHz or whatever. This machine is awesome.

your one lucky son of a gun to have a DUAL 2.5 G5, now all you need is that SICK 30 INCH cinema display.....we cant keep the dual 2's and 2.5's in stock at the store, they fly out like hot cakes.  Now I would just like to get my hands on a 30 inch beauty

www.awbansunset.com... "made on a Mac" (Steve Jobs would shit).

--Mike

HA HA

Quoted: ..."someone who knows what they are doing can do it faster in Windows because the Mac tries to hide the user from anything scary" Could you sound a little more elitist there? I take it you "know what you're doing" and I don't. Frankly, I could go on for a long time about how, when I'd use a PC, I'd wonder where my files were. Turns out I had to open a "browser" window- a File Viewer, just to look at my own machine! One window! Meanwhile (mind you I'm talking pre-OSX era here on both systems) on my Mac, I'd double click the hard drive and all my important items could be viewed. It was right there, no "properties", no goofing around with stupid tabs, right there. It was just like opening the hood of your car, you know right where the oil fill is. The PC? I'd open the hood, then have to open another box, then... Ack. So now, with OSX (and XP frankly), things are different. I am used to OSX now... Still don't like XP all that much. It looks pretty enough. But doesn't do anything for me. (sound familiar? It should, as you Mac bashers pretty much say the same thing, just reversed). I work, think, and act different from you. Why should we have the same computer? Bottom line. You like PCs, I like Macs. If you don't like it, tough. Let's all stop clogging bandwidth about it. But while we're at it, my new dual 2.5 GHz G5 RoXXors my b0xx0rs. I don't care if PCs are up to 3 GHz or whatever. This machine is awesome.

Lucky bastard! I have one of the single 1.6GHz ones.

BTW, name any setting and I can probably tell you how to change in in <5 minutes.

OSX is far superior to WinXP in stability, networking, and ease of use.  It's a far more intuitive user interface.  Period.

Quoted: OSX is far superior to WinXP in stability, networking, and ease of use.  It's a far more intuitive user interface.  Period.

No it ain't and saying this over and over is will not make it so.

Quoted: Quoted: OSX is far superior to WinXP in stability, networking, and ease of use.  It's a far more intuitive user interface.  Period. No it ain't and saying this over and over is will not make it so.

well it depends on how you see it, I know OS X server is infact easier to use, several of the Small colleges in this area have switched from there Win servers and taken up OSX and are only giving it prasie, they dont have atech or service guy there on a daily basis.....so right there it is saving them money, on top of that they dont need to have a full time guy there just to monitor it.  Many of the admin just learned it, now I can see how that would bother wintel users because it gives there job security a nice shake, but the fact is it is easier to use.  Like it or not, if its affecting your job im sorry, why not go learn how to use it, its easy and wont cost you an arm and leg like it did to learn WINDOWS vast server options.

Quoted: ..."someone who knows what they are doing can do it faster in Windows because the Mac tries to hide the user from anything scary" Could you sound a little more elitist there? I take it you "know what you're doing" and I don't. Frankly, I could go on for a long time about how, when I'd use a PC, I'd wonder where my files were. Turns out I had to open a "browser" window- a File Viewer, just to look at my own machine! One window! Meanwhile (mind you I'm talking pre-OSX era here on both systems) on my Mac, I'd double click the hard drive and all my important items could be viewed. It was right there, no "properties", no goofing around with stupid tabs, right there. It was just like opening the hood of your car, you know right where the oil fill is. The PC? I'd open the hood, then have to open another box, then... Ack. So now, with OSX (and XP frankly), things are different. I am used to OSX now... Still don't like XP all that much. It looks pretty enough. But doesn't do anything for me. (sound familiar? It should, as you Mac bashers pretty much say the same thing, just reversed). I work, think, and act different from you. Why should we have the same computer? Bottom line. You like PCs, I like Macs. If you don't like it, tough. Let's all stop clogging bandwidth about it. But while we're at it, my new dual 2.5 GHz G5 RoXXors my b0xx0rs. I don't care if PCs are up to 3 GHz or whatever. This machine is awesome.

Elitist? I really did not mean it that way.  But, I have been a C++ dev for 7 years plus I started a web hosting company, so I *think* I do know what I'm doing when I'm sitting at a computer, and I don't need the OS to give me a security blanket to do it.  Seriously, a Mac would drive me crazy with all the low-level stuff it hides from you.  But on the other hand, my *mom* can use Windows just fine, so it's not like it's that difficult to figure out.  I think a 60 minute tutorial on how a computer works would do wonders for someone way beyond a fancy OS to make certain things easier.  

But this isn't the point.  The point is, even though all machines have strengths and weaknesses, Mac users have to constantly claim PCs suck because they are too hard to use (boo hoo) and Macs are "teh awesome"!!!  Linux users constantly claim PCs suck because they crash all the time (whatever) and Linux is "teh awesome!".  

If Windows has a security hole, it's because Bill Gates himself is the devil and there is some big conspiracy.  If Linux has a security hole, Linux is teh awesome because they wrote a patch for it.  If your Mac OS has a bug, it's because "Oh you DUMMY, you were supposed to install the UPGRADE!! (*sip on cup of java*)".

By the way I have developed software on Linux, Windows, and Macs.  OSes are like web browsers.  They all suck, just in different ways.

Quoted: FTP isn't something all of us do everyday. But that's super easy, you can do it easily, and with OSX it's built right in to the OS. It looks just like any other window, only it's your FTP.

Wow, that sounds.... just like Windows!!! Oh wait, it's EVIL on Windows, because Bill Gates and the devil force you to use all the built in stuff... but it's teh awesome on the Mac, because dood, it's build into the OS!!

Quoted: I WORK for an APPLE RETAIL store here in Texas.  OS X is a very stable and solid system with a unix based backbone. Add to the fact that to hack into a mac requires thousands of dollars worth of equipment and knowledge of their codex system and then maybe...just maybe you'll be able to get my laptop off of sleep mode.

Cold, as an InfoSec professional and hacker long before then, I can say that you don't know what you're talking about.  OSX is a MACH microkernel and BSD backend.  It's a lot like Steve Job's company after Apple, NeXTStep.  Hacking a MAC doesn't take thousands of dollars of equipment.  It only takes knowledge and time, just like it does for any platform.

I like OSX, but I won't be buying Apple hardware to run it any time soon.  If Jobs were as smart as he thinks he is, they'd have released the x86 version of OSX years ago.  But Apple is content to play niche market.  While there would be teething problems getting driver support for the myriad of x86 hardware out there, making them look just as bad as Windows has, it'd be a powerful source of revenue.  But I'll stick to OpenBSD and X if I want a BSD based GUI system.  Honestly, I still prefer command line and VTY's.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Quoted: Well for starters, FTP isn't something all of us do everyday. But that's super easy, you can do it easily, and with OSX it's built right in to the OS. It looks just like any other window, only it's your FTP. Macs have been bedda bedda good to me!

I always thought it was funny that Apple integrated a search engine into their previous versions of MacOS before they put simple network troubleshooting tools like ping and traceroute on the box.  It was a nightmare trying to troubleshoot those damn machines 9 years ago because none of the MAC users gave damn about ping until they couldn't download it.

I know this is not the case with OSX, but it certainly took then long enough to get it.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Quoted: And, it's my opinion that someone who knows what they are doing can do it faster in Windows because the Mac tries to hide the user from anything scary.

Have you ever used WindowsXP?  It's appalling how much the interface caters to the lowest common denominator.  Case in point, try and administer a local user on an XP Pro box through the Control Panel.  You get point and click with icons.  You have the option of making it a normal user account or an account that can install apps.  Nothing in between or even an extra administrator account.  That's dumb.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Quoted: Quoted: I WORK for an APPLE RETAIL store here in Texas.  OS X is a very stable and solid system with a unix based backbone. Add to the fact that to hack into a mac requires thousands of dollars worth of equipment and knowledge of their codex system and then maybe...just maybe you'll be able to get my laptop off of sleep mode. Cold, as an InfoSec professional and hacker long before then, I can say that you don't know what you're talking about.  OSX is a MACH microkernel and BSD backend.  It's a lot like Steve Job's company after Apple, NeXTStep.  Hacking a MAC doesn't take thousands of dollars of equipment.  It only takes knowledge and time, just like it does for any platform. I like OSX, but I won't be buying Apple hardware to run it any time soon.  If Jobs were as smart as he thinks he is, they'd have released the x86 version of OSX years ago.  But Apple is content to play niche market.  While there would be teething problems getting driver support for the myriad of x86 hardware out there, making them look just as bad as Windows has, it'd be a powerful source of revenue.  But I'll stick to OpenBSD and X if I want a BSD based GUI system.  Honestly, I still prefer command line and VTY's. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Now, I only know the incidents from what I have had emailed me from apple corporate, but the last known or publicized hacking incident which took place on OS X.2.x was over a year ago and involved 2 guys with 2 computers which custom boards and were using several programs written and developed for their onw built systems, they took a merger file and then used that to understand how to circumvent OS X security functions.  I am not going to debate you for I am not a Mac Genius (the designation of the Mac Gurus in our store who fly to Cali and take the 50,000 dollar courses) I am only certified mac specialist however I do know what I am talking about with a Mac, I do not have extensive windows work only what I have used at school for Access Data bases programs, excel, PP, windows, file maker and some networking.  again its personal preference when ya come right down to it.  thanks for the input, im going to take your notes into work and see what the guys have to say and ill get back to ya tomorrow around this time when im off work.

I use a variety of computers and OSs and find OSX to lockup more per hour of use than Windows 2000 or XP.  It's better than Windows 98 though.  What is weird with OSX is it will lockup just doing normal things like surfing the web or reading email. What a joke. To mess up Windows these days you have to be doing a ton of things at once or playing an uber game. All you have to do to lockup OSX is download a few of  Wolfpack posts at Pre-Ban. Safari (the Apple web browser) just can't handle it. It takes forever for it to display pages with pictures and 10-20 seconds more for simple text pages than IE would in Windows.

I also think the major advantage of using Windows is it lets you grow. You can advance to doing more and more complicated activities and do them all simultaneously. OSX won't allow you to do that. It forces you to walk slowly with a cane when you really want to be waterskiing.

Quoted: I use a variety of computers and OSs and find OSX to lockup more per hour of use than Windows 2000 or XP.  It's better than Windows 98 though.  What is weird with OSX is it will lockup just doing normal things like surfing the web or reading email. What a joke. To mess up Windows these days you have to be doing a ton of things at once or playing an uber game. All you have to do to lockup OSX is download a few of  Wolfpack posts at Pre-Ban. Safari (the Apple web browser) just can't handle it. It takes forever for it to display pages with pictures and 10-20 seconds more for simple text pages than IE would in Windows. I also think the major advantage of using Windows is it lets you grow. You can advance to doing more and more complicated activities and do them all simultaneously. OSX won't allow you to do that. It forces you to walk slowly with a cane when you really want to be waterskiing.

If the OS is locking up on you... something's wrong. The only time I've had Kernel panics (OS freeze ups) was when OSX was in Beta. Seriously. And yeah, I forked over money for a beta version because I wanted to be an early adopter. No complaints, either: When we got OSX at work (finally) I was one of the few that had two years of experience with it.

OS9 and before, yeah, I'd have some wacky stuff going on from time to time, just like PC users. But OSX has never given me a hiccup.

(I'll try to respond to the other people that responded to my posts last night... it's gonna be a busy day at work though...)

I did clean instals with Jaguar and Panther, but still get problems with them being slow and locking up. Just clicking on Bookmarks in Safari causes a delay, even when I had less than 30 bookmarks! In fact clicking on just about any menu item anywhere in Panther causes an irritating delay, some are just worse than others.

Webpages intensive in graphics are poison to OSX. I put up with it when OSX first came out. There were even webpages that explained why it happenned and that Apple would eventually get it optimised (fixed). Well, 2 years later I am still waiting.

I'd like to do a defrag too. Sorry, they don't come with a defrag program and I don't feel like spending another $50 to get another Norton Utilities that will work with Panther. I would hate trying to do video editing on a Mac. I gave up after a few tests anyway.

In short, Apple has probably lost me as a regular customer. Once my iMac gets outdated I will most likely just get another Windows machine for the family room. The Mac is too little machine for too much money. I haven't even gone into all the email and newsgroup hassles with the poorly designed programs you get stuck with. Home use of a  Mac is like using a Colt 1860 revolver at a IPSC match. It's not up to the task.

Just so you know, I wrote this post on a Mac.  

Robert, I've got to disagree... Using a Mac for home use being comparable to an old revolver for IPSC? Huh. Well. Nobody told my old machine that. Purchased in May of 1999, and upgraded several times since with processor (upgraded to 400mhz G4) hard drive, RAM, video card, etc. It worked just fine (acquired a couple annoying habits that I hope a HD-zero and clean install of the OS will fix so I can sell it) up 'til I decided I needed (cue Tim Allen voice) More Power. I am an avid amateur digital photographer (and occasional freelance retoucher (read: High resolution images)) and I did just fine on that machine. Yes, a newer machine would have been *faster*... but as much as I'd like, I can't buy a new machine every time one comes out...

Just a note, how old is your iMac? I wouldn't want to be doing video editing on anything slower than a, say, 800 mhz G4 anyway... I think it's your hardware that's giving you the problems, particularly if you did a clean install of the OSs that you tried. Just curious, have you looked at apple.com's discussions? They've got an excellent forum over there and people are generally very helpful. The few times I've looked there, people have been great.

My iMacs a 500 G3 from 2001. It came with the dual 9/X system, but only has X on it now. For a long time now it is no more than a family room browser, not meant for serious business. Even if the delay/speed issues were solved, the software sucks so bad it would still be used very little.

Quoted: My iMacs a 500 G3 from 2001. It came with the dual 9/X system, but only has X on it now. For a long time now it is no more than a family room browser, not meant for serious business. Even if the delay/speed issues were solved, the software sucks so bad it would still be used very little.

OS X was not designed with a G3 processor in mind, the fact that you are using it on their is great however if your running 10.1 or 10.2 its using so many resources thats prolyl why your seeing such a slow down in time

I run OS X at home and OS 9 at the office  and have been very happy with both.  My server at work locks up once every few months and  a simple restarts gets all going  again.  I like OS X, but  dislike the companies politics.  The sole Winders machine at works crashes 1-2x month.  I'll stay Mac for  now. YMMV.

Quoted: My iMacs a 500 G3 from 2001. It came with the dual 9/X system, but only has X on it now. For a long time now it is no more than a family room browser, not meant for serious business. Even if the delay/speed issues were solved, the software sucks so bad it would still be used very little.

Better tell my iBook that. It's slightly slower (466mhz, 192MB ram), but I haven't had any problems with crashes. I keep it in the living room, to look at web pages while watching TV, sharing my cable modem connection through the G5. I never had a crash with OS X, even when using it as my primary computer. Infact, I just went and loaded one of Wolfpack's posts (the one with over 200 pics, most of them 100-200k, total size is probably around 30 megs). It took about 8.5 minutes to get the whole page, but everything worked fine. That's with two Arfcom windows and a blog open too.

And the whole thing about not being able to do complicated things is . The stock GUI-based config programs are limited sometimes, but if you want to do something more advanced, just fire up Terminal, and go cruising. For example, System Preferences doesn't give you much control over the built in ipfw firewall, but in Terminal, you can make it do all sorts of things. There's also various shareware/commercial programs that give you varying levels of control.  There's tons of text configuration files to play with too. It comes with a full version of Apache web server ready to go, and almost all of the major Unix programs can run on it. With a little fiddling, you can serve up a full-scale website.

On my iMac it would be locked up for the 8.5 minute download and might not even make it through it.  And you really surf Arfcom and do a blog at the same time? Where do you get all the extra processor cycles?  Are you using Safari or IE 5.1? The page rendering in Safari is slow and has been widely reported in the press, for two years! Is the secret to speed found in using Microsoft IE?

I've even had a few lockups just from opening the email program!  I have very little on the machine since the Panther install because I just don't mess with it. I just use what programs they provide, other than trying a few email and newsgroup programs.

I'm using Safari with 10.3.4 (which reminds me, I oughta get the update...) on the iBook. No lockups or anything. I did notice that after running it for a few weeks or so, the whole system would get sluggish, but a restart would fix it. I've never had the system crash under X, no matter how much stuff I was doing. I used Eudora for e-mail for a while, but switched to Apple Mail. No problems with either.