It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

K

Fabulous!

Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

I prefer sex too.

You and I should have been naked ten minutes ago.




roy d....I've never been to the Orient, either

It's a lifestyle choice fella.....

Quoted: Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all.... I prefer sex too.

I'm referring to people who say being gay or straight is an orientation meaning you are born that way.

Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

You mean you could switch to same sex relations that whimsically?

Not me...it's more "hardwired" than that for me.


(hardwired...)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all.... I prefer sex too. I'm referring to people who say being gay or straight is an orientation meaning you are born that way.

So when did you choose to be straight then?

Did I miss the orientation?

Sexual orientation is held on the first day of the new school year. I chose straight.

So do compass needles prefer north?

Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

ah.. arguing over terminology..

does 'preference' mean.. ah.. i prefer A but will accept B?..

oriented seems better to me. some people oriented towards members of same sex, some to members of other sex, some to farm animals, some to inflatable dolls.. so on and so forth..

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all.... I prefer sex too. I'm referring to people who say being gay or straight is an orientation meaning you are born that way. So when did you choose to be straight then?

when you started fantasizing about being with another person of the same sex.

Quoted: Did I miss the orientation?

Quoted: So when did you choose to be straight then?

You know, that's a very intersting question.  Does this mean that old/young Sig here is just as aroused by males as he is by females but simply CHOOSES to be with females?

I'm not trying to insult Sig, but, if his concept were true wouldn't we all be just as attacted to members of our own sex as to the opposite?

I can assure you my day does not start like this:

*Gets up*

"Ack...need coffee..."

*Stumbles around.  Makes coffee.  Reads news*

"Ahhh..*slurp* Let's see...illegal aliens...*slurp*...war...leftism...slavery still not legal...*slurp*...Chinese spies...think I'll go suck a dick today..."

Hmmm...nope.

Quoted: Quoted: So when did you choose to be straight then? You know, that's a very intersting question.  Does this mean that old/young Sig here is just as aroused by males as he is by females but simply CHOOSES to be with females? I'm not trying to insult Sig, but, if his concept were true wouldn't we all be just as attacted to members of our own sex as to the opposite? I can assure you my day does not start like this: *Gets up* "Ack...need coffee..." *Stumbles around.  Makes coffee.  Reads news* "Ahhh..*slurp* Let's see...illegal aliens...*slurp*...war...leftism...slavery still not legal...*slurp*...Chinese spies...think I'll go suck a dick today..." Hmmm...nope.

Alot of lifes decisions are complex and largely shaped by our environment over the course of development.  I never suggested it is a decision such as what to wear one day.  There is just as much evidence supporting that it is a choice as there is for it being genetic as there has been largely no conclusive support for either side.  The Neurologist as well as other Doctors even said exactly that at OU HSC in my anatomy course just last summer.  I don't even hate gay people I just don't like trying to pass stuff on like it is fact.

Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

Getting a little crowded in the closet?

What's the difference? Maybe I'm just ignorant?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So when did you choose to be straight then? You know, that's a very intersting question.  Does this mean that old/young Sig here is just as aroused by males as he is by females but simply CHOOSES to be with females? I'm not trying to insult Sig, but, if his concept were true wouldn't we all be just as attacted to members of our own sex as to the opposite? I can assure you my day does not start like this: *Gets up* "Ack...need coffee..." *Stumbles around.  Makes coffee.  Reads news* "Ahhh..*slurp* Let's see...illegal aliens...*slurp*...war...leftism...slavery still not legal...*slurp*...Chinese spies...think I'll go suck a dick today..." Hmmm...nope. Alot of lifes decisions are complex and largely shaped by our environment over the course of development.  I never suggested it is a decision such as what to wear one day.  There is just as much evidence supporting that it is a choice as there is for it being genetic as there has been largely no conclusive support for either side.  The Neurologist as well as other Doctors even said exactly that at OU HSC in my anatomy course just last summer.  I don't even hate gay people I just don't like trying to pass stuff on like it is fact.

I don't know that it is fact, but if you met my younger brother, you might change your mind.  We both grew up in the same house, had loving parents, ect, ect. ect.

He's gay.  Didn't come out until recently, but doesn't talk about it at all with anyone except my mother.    We all knew he was "different" for......sheesh, forever, but he tried to fake being straight, and had me bluffed.  You wouldn't believe the girls he went out with in high school.  

He is now a very successful doctor at a large metro hospital in the Dallas area.   You would not know he was gay, unless he told you.  He doesn't live the "lifestyle".  I don't think he made a "choice."   He just is who he is.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So when did you choose to be straight then? You know, that's a very intersting question.  Does this mean that old/young Sig here is just as aroused by males as he is by females but simply CHOOSES to be with females? I'm not trying to insult Sig, but, if his concept were true wouldn't we all be just as attacted to members of our own sex as to the opposite? I can assure you my day does not start like this: *Gets up* "Ack...need coffee..." *Stumbles around.  Makes coffee.  Reads news* "Ahhh..*slurp* Let's see...illegal aliens...*slurp*...war...leftism...slavery still not legal...*slurp*...Chinese spies...think I'll go suck a dick today..." Hmmm...nope. Alot of lifes decisions are complex and largely shaped by our environment over the course of development.  I never suggested it is a decision such as what to wear one day.  There is just as much evidence supporting that it is a choice as there is for it being genetic as there has been largely no conclusive support for either side.  The Neurologist as well as other Doctors even said exactly that at OU HSC in my anatomy course just last summer.  I don't even hate gay people I just don't like trying to pass stuff on like it is fact. I don't know that it is fact, but if you met my younger brother, you might change your mind.  We both grew up in the same house, had loving parents, ect, ect. ect. He's gay.  Didn't come out until recently, but doesn't talk about it at all with anyone except my mother.    We all knew he was "different" for......sheesh, forever, but he tried to fake being straight, and had me bluffed.  You wouldn't believe the girls he went out with in high school.   He is now a very successful doctor at a large metro hospital in the Dallas area.   You would not know he was gay, unless he told you.  He doesn't live the "lifestyle".  I don't think he made a "choice."   He just is who he is.

Sorry I should have clarified.  I believe environment plays a role but obviously is not the only factor.

Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

What is wrong, did your old lady catch you looking at gay porn?

It's a climate preference.  I hate hearing that crap about global warming even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

Bottom line you take in the butt or you dont take it in the butt.

Nuff said
FREE

The question is:


Would someone want to masturbate to this thread

Quoted: The question is: Would someone want to masturbate to this thread

{mjohn3006} I'm having a hard time masterbating to this thread {/mjohn3006}

Quoted: Quoted: So when did you choose to be straight then? You know, that's a very intersting question.  Does this mean that old/young Sig here is just as aroused by males as he is by females but simply CHOOSES to be with females? I'm not trying to insult Sig, but, if his concept were true wouldn't we all be just as attacted to members of our own sex as to the opposite?

That is the implication to me, when people use the word "preference" or "choice."  It suggests that they COULD get an erection and become sexually aroused at the idea of sex with EITHER gender, but make a conscious choice about whether to shove their penis into a man or a woman.  

My guess is that sexual orientation (the extent to which you are sexually aroused by one gender or the other) is determined either pre-natally or as a result of early childhood development - but not as a result of conscious "choice" on the part of an individual.

Of course, if one IS sexually attracted to one's own gender (i.e. homosexual), then a person DOES of course engage in a "choice" of whether or not to indulge that tendence and subsequent behavior.  In the same way that I make a "choice" every day whether or not to jump on and ravage cute-looking coeds on campus every day. I "choose" not to, and in the same sense, of course homosexuals COULD "choose" not to engage in their behavior.  That however, becomes a question of social norms and constructed morality, not of biology.

The behavior is clearly a conscious "choice" (as is all behavior) - but I do not believe for a second that the actual "hard-wired" orientation has anything to do with choice.

Quoted: Quoted: The question is: Would someone want to masturbate to this thread {mjohn3006} I'm having a hard time masterbating to this thread {/mjohn3006}

Precisely.

However....*would anyone want to* is the question.  

What he is saying is that everyone is heterosexual. Once that is established, you have some that perfer to have sex with children, with relatives, with animals, with people of the same gender, with the dead, etc.

Homosexuality is no more the opposite of hetersexuality than pederasty, necrophilia, incest, pedophilia, adultery, or beastiality.
They are all disorders, and as I posted on another thread about the APA decision to remove homosexuality from the list of disorders:

"What most people are not aware of is that when a group from the American Psychiatric Association first proposed the removal of homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, it was very clearly laid out in the "protocol" that the move was purely in response to the designation of "stigma" that those who identified themselves as homosexual claimed that they suffered as a consequence of "homosexuality" being included as a psychiatric disorder.
It was stated very clearly that the proposed removal was not intended to make any scientific statement about homosexuality per se."

Quoted: The question is: Would someone want to masturbate to this thread

good god i hope not!

If I was a woman I would choose to be a lesbian. Does that make me gay?

I don't see what the big deal is. It's like someone confusing mag and clip, except mags and clips are more different than orientation and prefrence.

Quoted: Quoted: So when did you choose to be straight then? You know, that's a very intersting question.  Does this mean that old/young Sig here is just as aroused by males as he is by females but simply CHOOSES to be with females? I'm not trying to insult Sig, but, if his concept were true wouldn't we all be just as attacted to members of our own sex as to the opposite? I can assure you my day does not start like this: *Gets up* "Ack...need coffee..." *Stumbles around.  Makes coffee.  Reads news* "Ahhh..*slurp* Let's see...illegal aliens...*slurp*...war...leftism...slavery still not legal...*slurp*...Chinese spies...think I'll go suck a dick today..." Hmmm...nope.

Quoted: Alot of lifes decisions are complex and largely shaped by our environment over the course of development.  <Snip>

I think there's an element of truth to that.  However, the older I get the more I'm beginning to think that "free will" is an illusion.  We are, when you get down the most elemental level, a mobile bag of chemicals arranged around an endoskeleton.  It is my personal belief that due to genetics and our individual chemical makeup (what many call "personality") that we are likely to react in certain ways in certain circumstances.  An example would be how individuals can be genetically predisposed to alcoholism.  It doesn't mean you WILL become an alcoholic, but that under the right/wrong circumstances you are MORE LIKELY to become an alcoholic.

Of course I can't prove it (can you say, "Nobel Prize!" ), but I think that principle applies to everything we do.  Every thought we think.  Every action we take.  I think there is a mathematical likelihood that individuals will react to given stimuli in a given way due to the individual's genetic makeup and "chemical composition" for lack of a better phrase.  The only reason we perceive "free will" is because we can't crunch the numbers and calculate the odds surrounding individual behavior yet (I think Issac Asimov may have contemplated a similar idea as indicated by his concept of "psychohistory" in the Foundation Trilogy).

For that matter predestination, it its most literal sense, may be very real.  Everything that happens may be literally inevitable.  Again, "randomness" may just be a perception and nothing else simply because we don't have the ability to calculate the interaction of trillions of variables yet.

Of course, we can't just let folks commit murder and then blame it on "destiny" or "genetics".  We still have to string'em up.  Why?  Because, predestined or not, murder is naughty and genetics can't be used as an excuse to commit crime.  Being predisposed to criminal activity doesn't mean criminal activity is o.k. or that we should just sit back and enjoy it.

Anyway, I think some gay people could swing either way, but that they're all genetically predisposed to being homosexuals.  

Of course I could just be plum ig'nernt.

Quoted: <Snip> In the same way that I make a "choice" every day whether or not to jump on and ravage cute-looking coeds on campus every day. <Snip>

Wait...you mean we have a choice in that matter?!  Ha!  Reason # 359 for why I plan to become a university professor, too! *
*Just kidding.  I would never risk my job by spoiling the, er, "honor" of a college girl because, you know, they're all so...*GULP*... "chaste".  

Quoted: What he is saying is that everyone is heterosexual. Once that is established, you have some that perfer to have sex with children, with relatives, with animals, with people of the same gender, with the dead, etc. Homosexuality is no more the opposite of hetersexuality than pederasty, necrophilia, incest, pedophilia, adultery, or beastiality. They are all disorders, and as I posted on another thread about the APA decision to remove homosexuality from the list of disorders: "What most people are not aware of is that when a group from the American Psychiatric Association first proposed the removal of homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, it was very clearly laid out in the "protocol" that the move was purely in response to the designation of "stigma" that those who identified themselves as homosexual claimed that they suffered as a consequence of "homosexuality" being included as a psychiatric disorder. It was stated very clearly that the proposed removal was not intended to make any scientific statement about homosexuality per se."

I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with you.

As per your statement "everyone is heterosexual" - it is obviously 100% correct that everyone is intended or designed to be heterosexual, but with any biological system, there is plenty of error possible in the process.

In the same way that conjoined twins, terrible physical mutation and deformation, mental retardation, hydrcephaly, and all sorts of genetic diseases can occur, so also will differences occur in the sorts of things that contribute to sexual orientation.   Thus, in that sense, of course homosexuality is clearly a "disorder" in that it is a "manufacturing" error from the original blueprint, in exactly the same way that shizophrenia, down's syndrome or other errors can occur.  Obviously, any biological species is designed to reproduce itself, and so an individual of that species is not completely "correct" if it is not sexually attracted to the other gender.

However, I also think that one part of your argument goes against the other part (if I understand it correctly).  Assuming that homosexuality is a "disorder" (that is, in my terms, a manufacturing flaw in the cntral nervous, brain or glandular system) then it seems inconsisten to ALSO claim that people with those disorder "prefer" or "choose" their orientation.

After all, we don't say that retarded children "choose" to be dumb, or that schizophrenics "choose" to be insane.  

Quoted:
I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with you.
As per your statement "everyone is heterosexual" - it is obviously 100% correct that everyone is intended or designed to be heterosexual, but with any biological system, there is plenty of error possible in the process.
Quite true. But even the "Elephant Man" was still born a man. His tragic condition changed that not in the least.

In the same way that conjoined twins, terrible physical mutation and deformation, mental retardation, hydrcephaly, and all sorts of genetic diseases can occur, so also will differences occur in the sorts of things that contribute to sexual orientation.   Thus, in that sense, of course homosexuality is clearly a "disorder" in that it is a "manufacturing" error from the original blueprint, in exactly the same way that shizophrenia, down's syndrome or other errors can occur.  Obviously, any biological species is designed to reproduce itself, and so an individual of that species is not completely "correct" if it is not sexually attracted to the other gender.
Nothing you said here is false or innacurate, but the fact is that we simply don't know the cause. It could be completely mental, or biological, or a combination of the two. It could even be spiritual or emotional, i.e. the fact that physically abused children become abusive to their children more often than then those who were not abused.

However, I also think that one part of your argument goes against the other part (if I understand it correctly).  Assuming that homosexuality is a "disorder" (that is, in my terms, a manufacturing flaw in the cntral nervous, brain or glandular system) then it seems inconsisten to ALSO claim that people with those disorder "prefer" or "choose" their orientation.
Well, first, that it be a disorder in no way requires it be a biological one, as already stated above. Secondly, as you already quite rightly stated, the choice is entirely with the conduct itself. The writer Truman Capote once said in an interview that for as long as he could remember he was always attracted sexually to underage boys, meaning teenagers. Was that a mental defect? Perhaps a biological one? A combination of the two? Or something else entirely. And does the inclination alone make him a pederast, or just a very disturbed man who as far as anyong knows never acted on his inclination.
I think it interesting that most men rather want to vomit at even the suggestion of two men sodomizing each other, while at the same time a great many, if not a majority, of those who identify themselves as "homosexuals" at one point or another had relations with one or more women.

After all, we don't say that retarded children "choose" to be dumb, or that schizophrenics "choose" to be insane.
I understand your point but that is a flawed example as these children are in many cases simply incapable of any sort of willfull choice.

From the other post:
"Furthermore, 77% of respondents had taken part in "threesomes" at least once, while 59% had taken part in orgies or group sex (p. 587). 38% had partaken of sadomasochistic practices at least once and 23% had practiced urination in association with sex (p. 555). 24% admitted to having been paid for sex."

These are very disturbed individuals. It is a gene that causes someone to engage in "sadomasochisitic practices". or is it something else? What would cause a person to want to "practice urination in associaton with sex'?
There was another story of 25% of homosexuals with HIV in San Francisco stating that they wanted to catch the disease. The phrase I read was "bug chasers". God almighty.

Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

You aint gonna get any play from either side if all you have is an inch, Romeo.

Quoted: The question is: Would someone want to masturbate to this thread

Depends on their orientation preference.  

That is just THUPER!!!!

Quoted: ...

Well, at least we've got some common ground and agreement.

Who'd have thunk it?  

This thread is just fine WITHOUT pics, thank you very much!

Quoted: Quoted: ... Well, at least we've got some common ground and agreement. Who'd have thunk it?

Yeah, I even agree with him on some things.  My "morals" are a bit different though.  I just see heterosexuals "choosing" to partipate in some pretty sick shit just as much as gays.  Even if we found out that it's a choice (even an unconcious choice), what is there to do about it?  

Goatse is an example of some weird gay ass-stretching fetish, whereas tubgirl is an example of scat, which can affect both gay and straight people (thankfully a small number).  

It's like how you like or dislike certain foods.  If you don't like a food, you can eat it in order to survive.  If you like it, you eat it a lot more obviously.

I actually prefer that gays are not treated as second class citizens.  Besides moral issues (how I feel), if like the past we force them into the closet out of fear of beatings/murder, they might force themselves to have a wife and have children (this has occured).  There's something for all the gay haters here to think about.  Do you want them having children?

where's stickydjnugz?  paging stickydjnugz...


I distinctly recall having preferred I had not clicked on his HOTD thread

I'm honestly quite shocked that religion has not entered into this thread yet.

You have to take sexual attraction down to a lower layer really.  What is it for?  For millions of years, it's a way of perpetuating the species.  Pheromones, hormones, etc., it's all about procreation.  The "fault" of homosexuality, if it is in fact hardwired is a bio-physical flaw that defies the reason for attraction in the first place.  The fact that it seems to be an increasingly occuring "anomaly" in the human society is disconcerting to say the least.  If the "fault" is one of choice, then I personally could give a shit less where any other man puts his pecker as long as it's not in my wife, except for one thing.....Historically, "empires" that have embraced the homosexual lifestyle as "normal" have fallen not long after.  Roman, Greek, etc.  Widespread homosexuality and other sexual "deviance" from the procreative norm has preceded the fall of these civilizations.  Look where we as a country are headed....right down the Grecko-roman shitter.....peanut-covered pecker first.

i think its ludicrous to insinuate that homosexuality is a choice.  think of yourselves (those of you who are actually straight)---what in your environment could possibly ever make you wake up one day and say "hmmm, i think i'll suck some dick today"?  if you answered, "ot a God damned thing", you'd be right.  it is hardwired--anomaly though it may be---and scores of research projects have shown that a homosexual male brain scan is more similar to a hetero female's scan than it is a hetero male's scan.

that being said...sure it's gross.  how one man can look at another man's hairy, sweaty ass and find love is beyond me, but it happens and in the grand scheme of things, i don't really give a shit.  you shouldn't either---as long as they aren't trying to recruit you.

lesbianism on the other hand...is a beautiful and natural act and should be encouraged without reservation.

Quoted: The question is: Would someone want to masturbate to this thread

And if so, how viciously?

Quoted: i think its ludicrous to insinuate that homosexuality is a choice.  think of yourselves (those of you who are actually straight)---what in your environment could possibly ever make you wake up one day and say "hmmm, i think i'll suck some dick today"?  if you answered, "ot a God damned thing", you'd be right.  it is hardwired--anomaly though it may be---and scores of research projects have shown that a homosexual male brain scan is more similar to a hetero female's scan than it is a hetero male's scan. that being said...sure it's gross.  how one man can look at another man's hairy, sweaty ass and find love is beyond me, but it happens and in the grand scheme of things, i don't really give a shit.  you shouldn't either---as long as they aren't trying to recruit you. lesbianism on the other hand...is a beautiful and natural act and should be encouraged without reservation.

I agree with you on all accounts except that it SHOULD be of concern to you because the more it becomes "accepted" behavior, the more it WILL affect your life.  Just one example: when gay marriage becomes fully legal, your health insurance costs will skyrocket as two people who used to pay the "single" rate now qualify as a pair for the "family" rate.  Gay couples will demand equal treatment in the adoption systems, so we'll begin raising literally thousands of fatherless and motherless children who have to figure out what their place in a family should be......The effects of homosexuality as it beats its' way into the fabric of our culture are mind boggling.

Quoted: It's a sexual preference.  I hate hearing that crap about peoples orientation even here at arfcom.  Until there is conclusive evidence then don't give an inch.  That is all....

Soooooo, you're not hard-wired to fuck women, and are capable of being excited by men?

That's so very interesting.

You're teh ghey.