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Posted: 8/3/2005 11:20:34 AM EDT
 Not only that... but they want to start exporting the Arrow missile system as well.U.S., Israel Seek to Cut Deal On China Arms Sales Miles A. Pomper www.armscontrol.org/act/2005_07-08/IsraelChina_ArmsSales.asp Under pressure from the Bush administration and Congress to cut off arms shipments to China, Israel hopes to iron out an agreement this summer with the United States on how future potential sales to Beijing will be considered. Israeli government officials and a nongovernmental expert in Washington familiar with the issue said the two sides were seeking to fashion a memorandum of understanding that would make such sales more transparent by defining “rules of the road.” The United States has considerable leverage over Israel as U.S. defense technology is often incorporated in Israeli weapons. “I believe that very soon we are going to agree on a procedure with regard to Israeli exports to China,” Yuval Steinitz, chairman of the Israeli Knesset (Parliament) Foreign and Defense Committee told Arms Control Today in a June 8 interview. Still, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice acknowledged June 16 that some outstanding issues remain. “We have had some difficult discussions with the Israelis about this,” Rice told reporters. The nongovernmental expert said that the differences involved exactly how much Israel would defer to the United States on such sales and whether the agreement would be limited to Israeli sales to China or extended to Israeli sales to other countries. Israel is pushing for a limited agreement, while the United States would prefer a broader pact. At the same time, a version of the fiscal year 2006 defense authorization bill approved by the House May 25 requires the secretary of defense not to procure any goods or services for five years from any firms that transfer arms to China, a provision that could affect Israel’s defense sector, which is one of its largest industries. U.S. officials have been pushing in recent months to prevent U.S. allies from selling high-tech weapons to China, which might be used against the United States or Taiwan in a future military conflict. Under U.S. pressure, the European Union has delayed plans to lift its arms embargo on Beijing. (See ACT, April 2005.) “Israel has a responsibility to be sensitive” to U.S. concern about China, “particularly given the close defense cooperation between Israel and the United States,” Rice said during a visit to Israel June 19. The United States provides billions of dollars of military aid to Israel each year. The recent dispute stems in part from Israel’s planned sale to China of spare parts for a fleet of as many as 100 Harpy Killer unmanned drones. The drone sale was singled out in a 2004 report from the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, which said that the unmanned aerial vehicles could “detect, attack, and destroy radar emitters,” posing a significant threat to command-and-control facilities on Taiwan and to U.S. operational forces in the region. U.S. officials fear that Israel planned to help China upgrade the systems and not just supply spare parts. In particular, they fear the addition of sensors that might be able to detect radar sites even when they are turned off. The Israeli newspaper Ha`aretz reported June 26 that under the proposed memorandum, the Israeli government will not return the drone components to China and expects to pay compensation. Ha`aretz reported June 13 that Washington has demanded that Israel provide details of more than 60 recent security deals with China. It claimed that, in the interim, the United States has suspended cooperation with the Israeli Air Force on developing a new fighter through the Joint Strike Fighter project and on other high-tech military equipment used by ground troops, out of concern that China could then obtain the technology. Independent analysts and government officials say that Israeli arms sales to China have fallen off since July 2000, when the United States persuaded Israel to cancel the sale to China of the Phalcon, an advanced, airborne early warning system. A senior Israeli government official said that incident “sensitized” Israel to U.S. security concerns about Beijing and that it has subsequently been cautious about such sales. By contrast, Israeli officials contend that U.S. complaints elsewhere often reflect the desire of U.S. defense firms to prevent competition from other suppliers. As an example, they point to India, where the United States is considering selling a version of the Patriot missile defense system but has prevented Israel from selling the Arrow, a similar joint U.S.-Israeli system. U.S. officials argue that they oppose sales of the Arrow because they would violate the provisions of the Missile Technology Control Regime, whose 34 members are supposed to restrict exports of missile systems and technologies capable of delivering a 500 kilogram payload at least 300 kilometers. U.S. officials say the Arrow system exceeds this threshold while the Patriot does not. But Israeli officials seethe. “It is one of the great absurdities of U.S.-Israeli relations. We developed this system together, we produced together, we can earn together, we can gain together,” former Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh, a leading Labor Party voice on defense policy, told Arms Control Today in a June 8 interview. “This is the best operational anti-missile defense in the world, and we are not allowed to export it?” |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 11:21:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Can we get some $300 M1as ?
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Posted: 8/3/2005 2:09:38 PM EDT
[#2]
bump
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Posted: 8/3/2005 2:40:01 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm not exactly shocked. We'll be the death of ourselves yet.
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Posted: 8/3/2005 3:58:20 PM EDT
[#4]
"Haha" for everyone that voted Bush.
I thought you all said Bush was your friend? AND I'M NOT A DU'ER. Many of us warned you all he is dangerous and not to be trusted... |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:03:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Bush banned the importation of guns from China and will now allow the sale of them to China.
At least he SCREWS AMERICANS I mean, at least he's SCREWING AMERICANS |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:03:57 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm so surprised…
Israel get caught selling US Military technology to China… US gets pissed… Israel says sorry… Israel does it again and gets caught… US sulks and stops selling Military Technology to Israel… Israel gets it's friends in Congress to work out a deal so Israel can carry on selling US technology to China… Funny old world! 
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:06:30 PM EDT
[#7]
They're just getting cozy with the next possible world superpower.
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:13:16 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:17:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Well, naturally. I mean, we wouldn't want to betray Israel by disapproving of or limiting what they can do with the technology that we give them, would we?
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:19:38 PM EDT
[#10]
China must really think the American Leaders are idiots, i know i do.
Anything for a buck. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:19:52 PM EDT
[#11]
+1, I USED to be the biggest Israel supporter out there. I say we feed them to the Rags. CUT OFF THEIR FUCKING WELFARE CHECK NOW. Let them make their money from selling trinkets to China. I am sick of the fucking pro-Israel lobby. SUCK MY FUCKING COCK... |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:24:26 PM EDT
[#12]
It's just an excuse to ban more guns...they allow EVERYTHING else to imported from PRC |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:26:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Well said! The jewish lobby is entirely too strong in the US.....Israel should have been cut off years ago...... |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:28:56 PM EDT
[#14]
And if you plan on actually shooting them, more than the pissant 1200 roudns or so most people will shoot out of a rifle in their life, you need to replace pretty much every part on the damn rifle because it will not hold (Headspace likes to get longer on them) I owudl not own a chinese made firearms if my life depended upon it, Hell, the SKS I am looking at is a Yugo. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:29:21 PM EDT
[#15]
It is clear you are nothing more than an anti semetic NAZI. 
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:30:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Now can we start reimporting Polytechs?
Maybe they could sell them at Wal Mart. 
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:35:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Liar! |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:40:29 PM EDT
[#18]
ARMS SALES TO CHINA
ACT I: US to Israel:  Israel: US to Israel: Isreal lobby to Congress:  Israel lobby to Bush:  US to Israel:  ACT II: China:  US:  ACT III: China to US:  Israel: |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:42:54 PM EDT
[#19]
I've had 2 accounts banned, the second one KO'ed in one post, so as of now, I have no DU account, so I'm clean. 
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:43:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Did you read the article? Did any of you read the article? Maybe you missed:
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:45:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Replace and headspace the bolt and you're good to go. But I digress. I'm not happy with China either but if we're headed to war with them the least we could do is shoot at them with their own guns! 
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:47:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Go read the article. This is merely speculation and talk of what they will TRY to get us to do. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:48:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Perhaps you also missed:
Your thread title is a lie. There has been no deal made and there probably won't be. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:48:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Umm.. I don't know if you were trying to refute me or concur... but it says:
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:51:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Yeah, it says "hopes to", it says nothing about a done deal. I am refuting you, Bush has not agreed to a damn thing in this matter and it sounds like he and his administration oppose it. Read the article. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:55:14 PM EDT
[#26]
I'll bet you it goes through… Money talks and Israel knows the US wants them to do a deal with the Palistinians, No deal on Arms Sales, no deal with the Palistinians. Israel will always look out for Israel, and if that means fucking over US Mid East policy, that's exactly what they will do. ANdy |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:57:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Not for this. I don't think you will see Bush cave on this. He doesn't cave on much of anything that I have seen. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:58:03 PM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 8/3/2005 4:58:29 PM EDT
[#29]
 Soo... what you're saying is: If your country is ABOUT to betray you, but not quite yet, it's okay and all, but once they do cross it; then that's bad?  The people should be pissed from start to finish, not once we cross the dredful finish line... |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 5:02:31 PM EDT
[#30]
I think that we should let the "Palestinians" buy Javelins with the Saudi money. Our economy goes up from the sale...we get some oil money back. Now that I think of it, Stingers would be a good sale too. I'm sure we could spare a little bit more, maybe a few hundred mortars? |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 5:23:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Maybe, maybe not, but Israel seems to get a 'pass' on actions that would result in Ambassadors being withdrawn if other countries tried it. Likewise, the sale and transfer of arms and technology to China has been going on since 1992 when a Patriot ended up in China…The reason the US is playing hardball now is (1) The stealth Tech in the F-35 could be at risk, (2) The Harpy Drones that Israel was about to upgrade for China, the modifications would have been ideal for taking out AEGIS radars and that was just too blatant an act to ignore. However, Israel will say 'sorry' again, fingers will be wagged, and eventually Israel wll get back to bussiness. ANdy |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 5:26:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Good grief. Do you lack in reading comprehension. Actually, you don't want to. Never mind the part about pressure from the Bush administration AGAINST it or the part about US officials opposing it, you just want to say "I told you so" and bash Bush even when there are no FACTS to back you up. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 5:42:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Rampage, you have changed your arguement from Bush screwed us HAHAHA, to the US is considering to screw us, to Israel blah bla bla. Bush is not going to allow it and never will. Israel wants to make some money, but will do so only at the blessing of the US.
Bush isnt going to back down, so Israel wont sell. They just HOPE that they can beg to Bush. This administration has been against Chinese military buildup for all 5 years and they are not going to turn a blind eye now, to whole sale dumping of our technology. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 5:44:19 PM EDT
[#34]
The facts are a waste of time on you I see. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 5:53:31 PM EDT
[#35]
With a Join date of May 2005, how exactly did you warn us? I take it you were banned before. |
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Posted: 8/3/2005 6:22:22 PM EDT
[#36]
I've said this man times, but I've been reading for about a year and never had an e-mail address to sign up with. This site doesn't allow yahoo, and my RoadRunner e-mail didn't work either. Until recently I've gotten an e-mail that the site did accept: Netscape. |
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Posted: 8/4/2005 2:54:10 AM EDT
[#37]
So you couldn't and didn't "warn us." You're just jumping on a perceived bandwagon. OK got it. |
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