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Posted: 10/29/2006 2:09:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 2:43:17 AM EST by vito113]
Israelis put nuclear bunkers in gardens
Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv

AMID mounting fears that Iran is planning to obliterate their country, wealthy Israelis are shelling out on underground nuclear shelters in the gardens of their luxury homes.
The shelters, which cost at least £60,000 for a bargain-basement version, are built to withstand radioactive fallout, have fortified walls and doors and generate their own electricity and decontaminated air. Defence experts estimate that hundreds of such bunkers, many fitted with all modern conveniences such as bedrooms, kitchens and bathrooms, have already been built in private homes across the country and demand is soaring.

Zaki Rakib, a wealthy businessman, built a shelter for himself and his family under his large villa overlooking the Mediterranean in Herzliya, an exclusive garden suburb north of Tel Aviv.

“The shelter looks like a regular flat,” he said. “It is 2,000 square feet, with a living room, two bedrooms, kitchen, self-powered electricity.”

Rakib’s post-nuclear pad, which can accommodate more than 25 people for two weeks, cost about £250,000. “The difference between an atomic shelter and a regular one is in the technical components: the thickness of the walls and a special system to block radioactive fallout,” he said.

Leading the stampede to the nuclear bunker is Shari Arison, the country’s wealthiest woman, estimated to be worth about £2.7 billion. The Israeli media have reported that she has already made preparations for Armageddon by building two sophisticated underground structures. One is at her home in Tel Aviv, the other in the garden of her holiday villa in Bnei Zion village.

Firms specialising in the manufacture of such shelters are booming. Ahim Torati is a company producing parts for atomic shelters. “We supply components for decontaminated air, fortified doors and walls,” said Menahem Torati, its owner.

“If in a regular shelter the door should withstand a five-ton blast, the door of an atomic shelter should absorb 250-270 tons.”

Seeking to allay public fears, the government insists that the population has little to fear. “We are aware of all these panicky people building atomic shelters. They’re wasting their money,” said a security source.

“Israel will not allow Iran to build an atomic bomb, and even if it did, the Iranians know very well that we’ll bomb them back to the Stone Age before they’ve launched a single missile.”

However, the government is quietly updating its preparations for a possible nuclear strike. Ephraim Sneh, the deputy defence minister, confirmed that a £300m nuclear shelter is being constructed in the Jerusalem hills for the Israeli war cabinet. “This will be a command and control centre that will be able to run the state of Israel during a war, even after a nuclear strike,” he said.

Israelis are used to coping with the threat of war, but until recently the civilian population has been largely unaffected by conflicts beyond the country’s borders. The 34-day invasion of Lebanon last summer, however, brought war closer to home. Up to 250 Hezbollah missiles rained down on Israel every day. Millions of terrified Israelis spent the hottest weeks of the summer in shelters.

Iran’s increasingly bellicose rhetoric is fuelling fears that the next war could bring even more devastation. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stated that Israel should be “wiped off the map”. As well as developing nuclear technology, Tehran boasts long-range ballistic missiles capable of hitting any target in Israel.

Many Israelis no longer trust their government to protect them. One man building a £60,000 nuclear shelter in his Tel Aviv garden said: “After the Lebanon war, I concluded that I have to protect my family, as I’m not sure the state will be able to do it.”

While the well-off are calling in the builders, nearly one third of the country’s population have no protection even against conventional weapons. “If Tel Aviv were attacked today, you can expect thousands of casualties,” predicted one security expert. AMID mounting fears that Iran is planning to obliterate their country, wealthy Israelis are shelling out on underground nuclear shelters in the gardens of their luxury homes.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2426886,00.html
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:38:41 AM EST
We did it during the Cold War. Makes sense that Israelis would do the same in their brewing Cold War with Iran.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:45:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By glockguy40:
We did it during the Cold War. Makes sense that Israelis would do the same in their brewing Cold Hot War with Iran.


Closer to the truth I believe.
Rich V
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:51:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 2:53:40 AM EST by glockguy40]

Originally Posted By Rich_V:

Originally Posted By glockguy40:
We did it during the Cold War. Makes sense that Israelis would do the same in their brewing Cold Hot War with Iran.


Closer to the truth I believe.
Rich V


Not true. Just like in our Cold War with the Soviets, neither Israel nor Iran openly attack one another. Instead, they choose to use proxy groups to attack one another (Iran with Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, and Israel with their support of Iranian Kurdish Rebels who transit back and forth along the Iran-Iraq border.)

Just like our cold war, they avoid direct military confrontation, while spitting out bellicose rhetoric.

If it were really a hot war... the middle east would be in a much worse state than we see today.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:15:23 AM EST
OUR cold war had the threat of MAD hanging over our heads.

and, belive it or not, I actually think that the Soviets were smart enough to know better.

Now, the extremists have only one thing on their mind. Destroy Israel and the US. Thats it. they'll stop at nothing to achieve it.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:25:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By RED_5:
Now, the extremists have only one thing on their mind. Destroy Israel and the US. Thats it. they'll stop at nothing to achieve it.


I remember hearing similar things during the Cold War. The spin was different, but the substance was the same. The story went like this: The Soviets don't respect MAD. Just look at the number of people they lost in WWII. Look at the scorched earth policy they implemented in WWII; they burned their own country to obtain their goals. They don't value human life like we do, and the Communist system will sacrifice its people to obtain their goals.

Now we have hindsight and know that wasn't the case.

The people in power in Iran play to the populace by spouting anti-Israel propoganda. They would destroy Israel IF they could find a way to do it AND keep their power. MAD ensures they cannot.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:31:13 AM EST
This'll be a growth industry here in the US, too, as soon as the next nuke gets popped.

I hunt deer in NY's Catskill mountains every year, and a lot of land is already being bought up by wealthy NYC folks who want a bug-out location.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:31:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By RED_5:
OUR cold war had the threat of MAD hanging over our heads.

and, belive it or not, I actually think that the Soviets were smart enough to know better.

Now, the extremists have only one thing on their mind. Destroy Israel and the US. Thats it. they'll stop at nothing to achieve it.


And that is the reason the current cold war will go hot, Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack. A Nuclear Iran with it's current belligerent regime is a severe threat that will require preemptive action. Should Iran get a small nuclear arsenal and the missile capability to deliver them Israel can not wait for a first strike before it responds.
Iran is working feverishly to get just such a capability.

Rich V
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:42:10 AM EST
I don't think it will do them much good either.


A nuclear strike from Iran is less likely to be by missles and more likely on the backs of some terrorists.

No warning.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:37:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 4:39:23 AM EST by EvoPsych]

Rich_V:
Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack.



Iran's way to small to survive Israel's nuclear response. Regardless of what the crazed clerics think.

Take a look at a population density map of Iran some time.

If Israel used 25% of its Jericho force and 4 sub launched weapons, Iran would be down about 20 to 25 million residents and about 90% of its tech base.

Not a nuke 'em all thread...Just the Ugly numbers.

Most of Irans Population is in Tehran and about 9 cities in the northwest. If Iran attacked Tel Aviv, with a nuke. Israel's responce targeting would certainly be both Counter force and COUNTER VALUE.




Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:54:36 AM EST
Ahmadinejad: "Wipe Israel off the map"

Knomeni: "destruction of Israel"











Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:21:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By EvoPsych:

Rich_V:
Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack.



Iran's way to small to survive Israel's nuclear response. Regardless of what the crazed clerics think.

Take a look at a population density map of Iran some time.

If Israel used 25% of its Jericho force and 4 sub launched weapons, Iran would be down about 20 to 25 million residents and about 90% of its tech base.

Not a nuke 'em all thread...Just the Ugly numbers.

Most of Irans Population is in Tehran and about 9 cities in the northwest. If Iran attacked Tel Aviv, with a nuke. Israel's responce targeting would certainly be both Counter force and COUNTER VALUE.






Agreed

But the question is do the Iranian leaders care?

The rhetoric that Ahmadinejad uses in his speeches lead me to believe he would martyr many muslims to destroy Israel. More telling is his history of apocalyptic religious beliefs and his statements that the hidden imam is very close to revealing himself and that by waging war on Israel and the west he will hasten the imams return.
There is no way of telling if he is really serious or just playing to the street, the question is can the Israelis be sure of which path he is on?
Ask yourself what would Ahmadinejad say or be doing differently if he was serious about the hidden imam and starting the apocalypse?

Figure in that Israel does not have the layers of counterstrike that the USA has for a MAD scenario they can't be as sure that a first strike by Iran could leave enough assets to provide a lethal counter strike. I don't know what the Israeli military capabilities are but given the small size of the country, about the size of NJ, it would not take a large number of nuclear hits to destroy their static military counter strike forces. Unless they have non static forces, nuclear armed subs or planes on patrol or in fast deployment status, it could be possible to keep the Israeli response to an 'acceptable' level in Iran's eyes.
Perhaps someone with a better understanding of Israeli capabilities could comment on this?

Rich V
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:30:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By EvoPsych:
Israel's responce targeting would certainly be both Counter force and COUNTER VALUE.

The question is: why bother with counter-force at all? The Israelis are not bound by concepts of "equivelent response." If TelAviv were destroyed, I would expect that Israel would invoke (at least a subset of) the Sampson Option and settle a whole lot of scores. Damascus and Tehran (along with most of the cities in Iran) would cease to exist.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:12:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 10:15:19 AM EST by glockguy40]

Originally Posted By Rich_V:

Originally Posted By EvoPsych:

Rich_V:
Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack.



Iran's way to small to survive Israel's nuclear response. Regardless of what the crazed clerics think.

Take a look at a population density map of Iran some time.

If Israel used 25% of its Jericho force and 4 sub launched weapons, Iran would be down about 20 to 25 million residents and about 90% of its tech base.

Not a nuke 'em all thread...Just the Ugly numbers.

Most of Irans Population is in Tehran and about 9 cities in the northwest. If Iran attacked Tel Aviv, with a nuke. Israel's responce targeting would certainly be both Counter force and COUNTER VALUE.






Agreed

But the question is do the Iranian leaders care?

The rhetoric that Ahmadinejad uses in his speeches lead me to believe he would martyr many muslims to destroy Israel. More telling is his history of apocalyptic religious beliefs and his statements that the hidden imam is very close to revealing himself and that by waging war on Israel and the west he will hasten the imams return.
There is no way of telling if he is really serious or just playing to the street, the question is can the Israelis be sure of which path he is on?
Ask yourself what would Ahmadinejad say or be doing differently if he was serious about the hidden imam and starting the apocalypse?

Figure in that Israel does not have the layers of counterstrike that the USA has for a MAD scenario they can't be as sure that a first strike by Iran could leave enough assets to provide a lethal counter strike. I don't know what the Israeli military capabilities are but given the small size of the country, about the size of NJ, it would not take a large number of nuclear hits to destroy their static military counter strike forces. Unless they have non static forces, nuclear armed subs or planes on patrol or in fast deployment status, it could be possible to keep the Israeli response to an 'acceptable' level in Iran's eyes.
Perhaps someone with a better understanding of Israeli capabilities could comment on this?

Rich V


Ahmadinejad is not commander in chief of Iran's armed forces. He has no national command authority like our president does. Meaning that Ahmadinejad's finger will never be anywhere near Iran's future big red button.

Ayatollah Ali Khemenei is Iran's Commander and Chief of their armed forces, and has shown that he doesn't believe in any of the Messianic crap that Ahmadinejad seems to ascribe to. He has even shown his ability to be pragmatic.

In other words, people worry too much about Ahmadinejad. He doesn't set policy in Iran, nor is he able to act on anything militarily because he doesn't have the command authority to do so.

Why people refuse to understand this baffles me. In the Iranian system of government, the president is just a figurehead with no real powers, in order to give the appearance of a Window-dressing of Democracy.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:30:12 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Rich_V:
height=8
Originally Posted By EvoPsych:
height=8
Rich_V:
Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack.



Iran's way to small to survive Israel's nuclear response. Regardless of what the crazed clerics think.

Take a look at a population density map of Iran some time.

If Israel used 25% of its Jericho force and 4 sub launched weapons, Iran would be down about 20 to 25 million residents and about 90% of its tech base.

Not a nuke 'em all thread...Just the Ugly numbers.

Most of Irans Population is in Tehran and about 9 cities in the northwest. If Iran attacked Tel Aviv, with a nuke. Israel's responce targeting would certainly be both Counter force and COUNTER VALUE.

hinking.gif




Agreed

But the question is do the Iranian leaders care?

The rhetoric that Ahmadinejad uses in his speeches lead me to believe he would martyr many muslims to destroy Israel. More telling is his history of apocalyptic religious beliefs and his statements that the hidden imam is very close to revealing himself and that by waging war on Israel and the west he will hasten the imams return.
There is no way of telling if he is really serious or just playing to the street, the question is can the Israelis be sure of which path he is on?
Ask yourself what would Ahmadinejad say or be doing differently if he was serious about the hidden imam and starting the apocalypse?

Figure in that Israel does not have the layers of counterstrike that the USA has for a MAD scenario they can't be as sure that a first strike by Iran could leave enough assets to provide a lethal counter strike. I don't know what the Israeli military capabilities are but given the small size of the country, about the size of NJ, it would not take a large number of nuclear hits to destroy their static military counter strike forces. Unless they have non static forces, nuclear armed subs or planes on patrol or in fast deployment status, it could be possible to keep the Israeli response to an 'acceptable' level in Iran's eyes.
Perhaps someone with a better understanding of Israeli capabilities could comment on this?

Rich V



Of course they care. They can't spread Islam and fund jihad if their population and economy have been decimated.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:02:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By Rich_V:
Originally Posted By EvoPsych:
Rich_V:
Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack.




Ahmadinejad is not commander in chief of Iran's armed forces. He has no national command authority like our president does. Meaning that Ahmadinejad's finger will never be anywhere near Iran's future big red button.

Ayatollah Ali Khemenei is Iran's Commander and Chief of their armed forces, and has shown that he doesn't believe in any of the Messianic crap that Ahmadinejad seems to ascribe to. He has even shown his ability to be pragmatic.

In other words, people worry too much about Ahmadinejad. He doesn't set policy in Iran, nor is he able to act on anything militarily because he doesn't have the command authority to do so.

Why people refuse to understand this baffles me. In the Iranian system of government, the president is just a figurehead with no real powers, in order to give the appearance of a Window-dressing of Democracy.



Don’t be so sure you know what the political realities are in Iran. I would not put any faith in a “government” system like Iran’s to be either stable or predictable.
Who is in power in Iran??

Report: Ayatollah Khamenei challenging Ahmadinejad

By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

LONDON -- Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei seems to be trying to gain control from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is emerging as his rival, says a report.

As part of that effort, Khamenei has ordered the creation of a foreign policy council that would be solely responsible to the ruling cleric, reports the Middle East Newsline. Khamenei said the Strategic Council for Foreign Relations is meant to facilitate decisions on foreign policy, the report said.

"It's the first time Khamenei has asserted control since Ahmadinejad took over the presidency," a Western intelligence analyst was quoted as saying. "Until now, Khamenei has taken a back seat to Ahmadinejad."

Some analysts told the MENL the new council could become Khamenei's back channel to the United States, which is leading other Western nations to have Iran end its uranium enrichment program. But Ahmadinejad, who is supported by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, has refused to consider any such suspension, claiming the program is only meant for peaceful uses of nuclear energy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Khamenei is to be trusted with nuclear weapons?
http://www.economist.com/world/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8049730

“Ayatollah Khamenei, brandishing a Kalashnikov and speaking in his fluent classical Arabic in a Friday sermon on October 13th, put the matter more bluntly. Blasting critics of Hizbullah as “cringing hirelings of the Great Satan”, he said that the Iranian-funded militia's victory had made the group so loved that Muslims everywhere felt they had participated in it. The claim is not far-fetched. In far-off Brunei, by the South China Sea, the sultan issued orders for the obligatory performance of special prayers for Israel's defeat. In Egypt, a solidly Sunni country ostensibly allied to America, the two most popular politicians, according to a recent survey, are the Hizbullah chief, Hassan Nasrallah, and President Ahmadinejad of Iran.”

Perhaps you are baffled because you trust one madman over another??

Rich V
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:41:03 PM EST

GlockGuy40:
Ahmadinejad is not commander in chief of Iran's armed forces. He has no national command authority like our president does. Meaning that Ahmadinejad's finger will never be anywhere near Iran's future big red button.

Ayatollah Ali Khemenei is Iran's Commander and Chief of their armed forces, and has shown that he doesn't believe in any of the Messianic crap that Ahmadinejad seems to ascribe to. He has even shown his ability to be pragmatic.

In other words, people worry too much about Ahmadinejad. He doesn't set policy in Iran, nor is he able to act on anything militarily because he doesn't have the command authority to do so.

Why people refuse to understand this baffles me. In the Iranian system of government, the president is just a figurehead with no real powers, in order to give the appearance of a Window-dressing of Democracy.



So was Hitler until he put his political opponents up against a wall and shot 'em, right after the night of the long knives.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:57:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By EvoPsych:

GlockGuy40:
...the president is just a figurehead with no real powers,...



So was Hitler until he put his political opponents up against a wall and shot 'em, right after the night of the long knives.


Reminds me of that great exchange in "Dr. Strangelove":

"He didn't have the authority to do that!"

"Apparently he overstepped his authority, sir."
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:59:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 3:06:20 PM EST by glockguy40]

Originally Posted By Rich_V:

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By Rich_V:
Originally Posted By EvoPsych:
Rich_V:
Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack.




Ahmadinejad is not commander in chief of Iran's armed forces. He has no national command authority like our president does. Meaning that Ahmadinejad's finger will never be anywhere near Iran's future big red button.

Ayatollah Ali Khemenei is Iran's Commander and Chief of their armed forces, and has shown that he doesn't believe in any of the Messianic crap that Ahmadinejad seems to ascribe to. He has even shown his ability to be pragmatic.

In other words, people worry too much about Ahmadinejad. He doesn't set policy in Iran, nor is he able to act on anything militarily because he doesn't have the command authority to do so.

Why people refuse to understand this baffles me. In the Iranian system of government, the president is just a figurehead with no real powers, in order to give the appearance of a Window-dressing of Democracy.



Don’t be so sure you know what the political realities are in Iran. I would not put any faith in a “government” system like Iran’s to be either stable or predictable.
Who is in power in Iran??

Report: Ayatollah Khamenei challenging Ahmadinejad

By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

LONDON -- Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei seems to be trying to gain control from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is emerging as his rival, says a report.

As part of that effort, Khamenei has ordered the creation of a foreign policy council that would be solely responsible to the ruling cleric, reports the Middle East Newsline. Khamenei said the Strategic Council for Foreign Relations is meant to facilitate decisions on foreign policy, the report said.

"It's the first time Khamenei has asserted control since Ahmadinejad took over the presidency," a Western intelligence analyst was quoted as saying. "Until now, Khamenei has taken a back seat to Ahmadinejad."

Some analysts told the MENL the new council could become Khamenei's back channel to the United States, which is leading other Western nations to have Iran end its uranium enrichment program. But Ahmadinejad, who is supported by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, has refused to consider any such suspension, claiming the program is only meant for peaceful uses of nuclear energy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Khamenei is to be trusted with nuclear weapons?
http://www.economist.com/world/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8049730

“Ayatollah Khamenei, brandishing a Kalashnikov and speaking in his fluent classical Arabic in a Friday sermon on October 13th, put the matter more bluntly. Blasting critics of Hizbullah as “cringing hirelings of the Great Satan”, he said that the Iranian-funded militia's victory had made the group so loved that Muslims everywhere felt they had participated in it. The claim is not far-fetched. In far-off Brunei, by the South China Sea, the sultan issued orders for the obligatory performance of special prayers for Israel's defeat. In Egypt, a solidly Sunni country ostensibly allied to America, the two most popular politicians, according to a recent survey, are the Hizbullah chief, Hassan Nasrallah, and President Ahmadinejad of Iran.”

Perhaps you are baffled because you trust one madman over another??

Rich V


LOL. You need to do a little more research. It seems you are pretty ignorant on the subject.

I suggest you read Ray Takeyh's book, "Hidden Iran - Paradox and Power in the Islamic Republic", to educate yourself.



www.amazon.com/Hidden-Iran-Paradox-Islamic-Republic/dp/0805079769/sr=1-1/qid=1162169922/ref=sr_1_1/102-6501950-8715303?ie=UTF8&s=books
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:03:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 3:09:21 PM EST by glockguy40]

Originally Posted By EvoPsych:

GlockGuy40:
Ahmadinejad is not commander in chief of Iran's armed forces. He has no national command authority like our president does. Meaning that Ahmadinejad's finger will never be anywhere near Iran's future big red button.

Ayatollah Ali Khemenei is Iran's Commander and Chief of their armed forces, and has shown that he doesn't believe in any of the Messianic crap that Ahmadinejad seems to ascribe to. He has even shown his ability to be pragmatic.

In other words, people worry too much about Ahmadinejad. He doesn't set policy in Iran, nor is he able to act on anything militarily because he doesn't have the command authority to do so.

Why people refuse to understand this baffles me. In the Iranian system of government, the president is just a figurehead with no real powers, in order to give the appearance of a Window-dressing of Democracy.



So was Hitler until he put his political opponents up against a wall and shot 'em, right after the night of the long knives.


Yes... but in Germany, there were no Constitutional prohibitions on Hitler obtaining power. In Iran there are for people like Ahmadinejad.

In Iran, their Constitution dictates that it is a theocracy... and that the Clerics are in charge. Ahmadinejad is not a cleric, and hence, he will never achieve the ability to run the true levers of power in Iran.

Ahmadinejad believes in this system and in Clerical rule. Even he wouldn't attempt to upset the system. He just wants to further radicalize it toward more extreme policies. And so far, the Clerics aren't letting him, as Rich V's article states.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:59:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By Rich_V:

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By Rich_V:
Originally Posted By EvoPsych:
Rich_V:
Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack.




Ahmadinejad is not commander in chief of Iran's armed forces. He has no national command authority like our president does. Meaning that Ahmadinejad's finger will never be anywhere near Iran's future big red button.

Ayatollah Ali Khemenei is Iran's Commander and Chief of their armed forces, and has shown that he doesn't believe in any of the Messianic crap that Ahmadinejad seems to ascribe to. He has even shown his ability to be pragmatic.

In other words, people worry too much about Ahmadinejad. He doesn't set policy in Iran, nor is he able to act on anything militarily because he doesn't have the command authority to do so.

Why people refuse to understand this baffles me. In the Iranian system of government, the president is just a figurehead with no real powers, in order to give the appearance of a Window-dressing of Democracy.



Don’t be so sure you know what the political realities are in Iran. I would not put any faith in a “government” system like Iran’s to be either stable or predictable.
Who is in power in Iran??

Report: Ayatollah Khamenei challenging Ahmadinejad

By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

LONDON -- Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei seems to be trying to gain control from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is emerging as his rival, says a report.

As part of that effort, Khamenei has ordered the creation of a foreign policy council that would be solely responsible to the ruling cleric, reports the Middle East Newsline. Khamenei said the Strategic Council for Foreign Relations is meant to facilitate decisions on foreign policy, the report said.

"It's the first time Khamenei has asserted control since Ahmadinejad took over the presidency," a Western intelligence analyst was quoted as saying. "Until now, Khamenei has taken a back seat to Ahmadinejad."

Some analysts told the MENL the new council could become Khamenei's back channel to the United States, which is leading other Western nations to have Iran end its uranium enrichment program. But Ahmadinejad, who is supported by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, has refused to consider any such suspension, claiming the program is only meant for peaceful uses of nuclear energy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Khamenei is to be trusted with nuclear weapons?
http://www.economist.com/world/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8049730

“Ayatollah Khamenei, brandishing a Kalashnikov and speaking in his fluent classical Arabic in a Friday sermon on October 13th, put the matter more bluntly. Blasting critics of Hizbullah as “cringing hirelings of the Great Satan”, he said that the Iranian-funded militia's victory had made the group so loved that Muslims everywhere felt they had participated in it. The claim is not far-fetched. In far-off Brunei, by the South China Sea, the sultan issued orders for the obligatory performance of special prayers for Israel's defeat. In Egypt, a solidly Sunni country ostensibly allied to America, the two most popular politicians, according to a recent survey, are the Hizbullah chief, Hassan Nasrallah, and President Ahmadinejad of Iran.”

Perhaps you are baffled because you trust one madman over another??

Rich V


LOL. You need to do a little more research. It seems you are pretty ignorant on the subject.

I suggest you read Ray Takeyh's book, "Hidden Iran - Paradox and Power in the Islamic Republic", to educate yourself.

ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0805079769.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_OU01_SCLZZZZZZZ_V38845456_.jpg

www.amazon.com/Hidden-Iran-Paradox-Islamic-Republic/dp/0805079769/sr=1-1/qid=1162169922/ref=sr_1_1/102-6501950-8715303?ie=UTF8&s=books



glockguy40

Thanks for setting me strait on Iran.
For years I have been in fear that Iran’s nuclear and intercontinental missile programs would be controlled by that religious fanatic Ahmadinejad. It is comforting indeed to know I was wrong and that he will not have his finger on “Iran’s big red button”. I will now sleep much better knowing that the benevolent, caring and compassionate Iranian Islamic revolutionary clerics and mullahs will have their finger on the big red button. This truly is a great relief to me and the whole AR15.com community.

Bravo glockguy40!!

Rich V
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:28:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rich_V:

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By Rich_V:

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By Rich_V:
Originally Posted By EvoPsych:
Rich_V:
Israel is way too small to survive a nuclear attack.




Ahmadinejad is not commander in chief of Iran's armed forces. He has no national command authority like our president does. Meaning that Ahmadinejad's finger will never be anywhere near Iran's future big red button.

Ayatollah Ali Khemenei is Iran's Commander and Chief of their armed forces, and has shown that he doesn't believe in any of the Messianic crap that Ahmadinejad seems to ascribe to. He has even shown his ability to be pragmatic.

In other words, people worry too much about Ahmadinejad. He doesn't set policy in Iran, nor is he able to act on anything militarily because he doesn't have the command authority to do so.

Why people refuse to understand this baffles me. In the Iranian system of government, the president is just a figurehead with no real powers, in order to give the appearance of a Window-dressing of Democracy.



Don’t be so sure you know what the political realities are in Iran. I would not put any faith in a “government” system like Iran’s to be either stable or predictable.
Who is in power in Iran??

Report: Ayatollah Khamenei challenging Ahmadinejad

By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

LONDON -- Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei seems to be trying to gain control from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is emerging as his rival, says a report.

As part of that effort, Khamenei has ordered the creation of a foreign policy council that would be solely responsible to the ruling cleric, reports the Middle East Newsline. Khamenei said the Strategic Council for Foreign Relations is meant to facilitate decisions on foreign policy, the report said.

"It's the first time Khamenei has asserted control since Ahmadinejad took over the presidency," a Western intelligence analyst was quoted as saying. "Until now, Khamenei has taken a back seat to Ahmadinejad."

Some analysts told the MENL the new council could become Khamenei's back channel to the United States, which is leading other Western nations to have Iran end its uranium enrichment program. But Ahmadinejad, who is supported by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, has refused to consider any such suspension, claiming the program is only meant for peaceful uses of nuclear energy.

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And Khamenei is to be trusted with nuclear weapons?
http://www.economist.com/world/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8049730

“Ayatollah Khamenei, brandishing a Kalashnikov and speaking in his fluent classical Arabic in a Friday sermon on October 13th, put the matter more bluntly. Blasting critics of Hizbullah as “cringing hirelings of the Great Satan”, he said that the Iranian-funded militia's victory had made the group so loved that Muslims everywhere felt they had participated in it. The claim is not far-fetched. In far-off Brunei, by the South China Sea, the sultan issued orders for the obligatory performance of special prayers for Israel's defeat. In Egypt, a solidly Sunni country ostensibly allied to America, the two most popular politicians, according to a recent survey, are the Hizbullah chief, Hassan Nasrallah, and President Ahmadinejad of Iran.”

Perhaps you are baffled because you trust one madman over another??

Rich V


LOL. You need to do a little more research. It seems you are pretty ignorant on the subject.

I suggest you read Ray Takeyh's book, "Hidden Iran - Paradox and Power in the Islamic Republic", to educate yourself.

ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0805079769.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_OU01_SCLZZZZZZZ_V38845456_.jpg

www.amazon.com/Hidden-Iran-Paradox-Islamic-Republic/dp/0805079769/sr=1-1/qid=1162169922/ref=sr_1_1/102-6501950-8715303?ie=UTF8&s=books



glockguy40

Thanks for setting me strait on Iran.
For years I have been in fear that Iran’s nuclear and intercontinental missile programs would be controlled by that religious fanatic Ahmadinejad. It is comforting indeed to know I was wrong and that he will not have his finger on “Iran’s big red button”. I will now sleep much better knowing that the benevolent, caring and compassionate Iranian Islamic revolutionary clerics and mullahs will have their finger on the big red button. This truly is a great relief to me and the whole AR15.com community.

Bravo glockguy40!!

Rich V


No where did I ever say it was a good thing that anyone in this regime would have nuclear weapons. If we can prevent their acquring nukes, we should do so full tilt.

However, this shit about Ahmadinejad and the "sky is falling" that peope keep shitting themselves over is fucking hilarious. You and all the ignorant people like you need to read the book above and educate yourselves before opining on a subject you know so little about.

It's better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and prove it. LOL.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:31:22 PM EST
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Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:41:34 PM EST
We should invade now while Iran still has plenty of hot Persian to bring back to the USA as war brides!
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:45:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 6:45:58 PM EST by Paveway_]
We need to pull the mother of all thunder runs on Iran, invade with ground forces, blow up everything of value. Every bridge, military facility, tv station etc and pull out.

We don't want the territory or people. Blow their shit up and pull back to Iraq.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:08:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By RED_5:
Now, the extremists have only one thing on their mind. Destroy Israel and the US. Thats it. they'll stop at nothing to achieve it.


I remember hearing similar things during the Cold War. The spin was different, but the substance was the same. The story went like this: The Soviets don't respect MAD. Just look at the number of people they lost in WWII. Look at the scorched earth policy they implemented in WWII; they burned their own country to obtain their goals. They don't value human life like we do, and the Communist system will sacrifice its people to obtain their goals.

Now we have hindsight and know that wasn't the case.

The people in power in Iran play to the populace by spouting anti-Israel propoganda. They would destroy Israel IF they could find a way to do it AND keep their power. MAD ensures they cannot.


That makes an assumption that a Nuclear Country's Leader(s) are not MAD themselves.
If schitzo...then it requires a completely different strategy...

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:12:51 PM EST
What about Israel's "Secret Nuke Bunkers" under the Med-Sea floor.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:21:50 PM EST
Pics please......something tells me I will need to build one of these in the next few years.....
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