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Posted: 7/26/2002 4:42:18 PM EST
Israeli had a Homas terrorist leader pegged to be at a certain place at a certain time , so they get a F-16 jet to drop a one ton bomb on his house killing him, and his kids and a few others but they got him. Now that is how to fight , no such thing as a clean fight, go in to win, or stay out of the fight. No - war/fight is good or nice, and trying to fight one in a sporting way is bullshit. I hope we take notice, but know we will not as all the naive Americans who get their education from the media will think , this is so terrible. All I can do is wish them is good luck, because I remember the Palestinians passing out candy and saying they were so happy about 9-11. F*** them
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 4:48:52 PM EST
I wonder if this is a change in tactics for Israel? The fact that the families of suicide bombers are getting benefits for the service the suicide bomber performed has not escaped the the attention of Israel. I guess they feel that the family of the suicide bomber is profiting from the death of Israelis, so lets get them too.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 4:52:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Magic: I wonder if this is a change in tactics for Israel? The fact that the families of suicide bombers are getting benefits for the service the suicide bomber performed has not escaped the the attention of Israel. I guess they feel that the family of the suicide bomber is profiting from the death of Israelis, so lets get them too.
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Sounds Like A Plan[^]. If you were a suicide bomber and you knew in advance that if you blew yourself up in public that your whole family would be killed would you follow throught with your suicidal plan?
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 4:57:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 5:06:13 PM EST by kc0hak]
You're right- there are no clean fights. That's why the Palistinians are using suicide bombings. Vicious cycle. The Palistinians have known for a while that they can't fight a clean war against a disproportionately well equipped enemy. I can only hope the Palistinians win in the long run. (If only to piss off every knee-jerk Palistine hater on the board)
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:04:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Israeli had a Homas terrorist leader pegged to be at a certain place at a certain time , so they get a F-16 jet to drop a one ton bomb on his house killing him, and his kids and a few others but they got him.
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Yup, 15 dead and 100 wounded all to get one guy. And Israel has the moral high ground how, exactly? Sorry, this is just more proof that Israel is no better (nor any worse) than the palestinians. A plague on both their houses.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:15:41 PM EST
If suicide bombers were coming into America and blowing up Americans every other day we would change our tune in one second. The PLO is anti American and chants death to America , do you see any Israelis doing this , I think it is time to get off of the fence and chose sides. 100 wounded , it's the bad guys fault, they deserve what they get.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:16:36 PM EST
No, there is a huge difference between Israel and Palestine. They are not moral equivalents. Look, this guy is a director of terrorism. He is planning to murder other people. He has a family, and keeps them close to him at all times, even though the Israelis are known for assasinating their enemies by air attack, which is pretty indiscriminate, even if laser guided. The only one to blame for these childrens' deaths is their father, for keeping them in close proximity to him during his campaign to kill Israelis. If he had any sense, he would send them to a family member who isn't involved with terror activities. The only moral high ground the Arabs can claim is when tragedies like this happen. However, they count on them for world sympathy and condemnation of Israel, which is ultimately more important to them than the health and safety of their children. Otherwise, why would they indoctrinate them to become suicide bombers? They are not morally equivalent to Isreal. They are far below, more callous.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:19:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By raven: No, there is a huge difference between Israel and Palestine. They are not moral equivalents. Look, this guy is a director of terrorism. He is planning to murder other people. He has a family, and keeps them close to him at all times, even though the Israelis are known for assasinating their enemies by air attack, which is pretty indiscriminate, even if laser guided. The only one to blame for these childrens' deaths is their father, for keeping them in close proximity to him during his campaign to kill Israelis. If he had any sense, he would send them to a family member who isn't involved with terror activities. The only moral high ground the Arabs can claim is when tragedies like this happen. However, they count on them for world sympathy and condemnation of Israel, which is ultimately more important to them than the health and safety of their children. Otherwise, why would they indoctrinate them to become suicide bombers? They are not morally equivalent to Isreal. They are far below, more callous.
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I think you are right on the mark, with your evauluation of this situation.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:27:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: 100 wounded , it's the bad guys fault, they deserve what they get.
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That statement is akin to saying that if an innocent bystander is shot during a driveby, it's the fault of the target and not the trigger man. I'm sorry, but if a Mk84 comes knocking at your window for the simple crime of living down the block from a terrorist, you DON'T "deserve what you get."
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:29:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: If suicide bombers were coming into America and blowing up Americans every other day we would change our tune in one second. The PLO is anti American and chants death to America , do you see any Israelis doing this , I think it is time to get off of the fence and chose sides. 100 wounded , it's the bad guys fault, they deserve what they get.
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2 points: 1) I know several Palistinians/Arabs on a friendly conversational basis. They've all told me that the street demonstrations against the US are a result of US aid to Israel, and that should the US stop aid, most hardliners would lose support. They still won't like American intrusion on their lives, but it'll be less of a problem when they don't see a symbol of American imperialism sitting right on what they perceive to be their land. 2) Of course the Israelis don't chant "Down with the USA". They're too busy finding new ways to get US funding so they can fill their coffers. If you look at it closely, Israel is USELESS to the US's intrests. They control no natural resources, no trade routes; their tech industry is supported in majority by US funding; and they're constantly trying to sell OUR tech to the biggest threat in our future, China.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:36:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By raven: Look, this guy is a director of terrorism. He is planning to murder other people.
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What, Israel doesn't have infantry or snipers? Put 62 grains of copper jacketed lead through the son of a bitch's forehead, but DON'T kill and wound dozens in the attempt.
He has a family, and keeps them close to him at all times, even though the Israelis are known for assasinating their enemies by air attack, which is pretty indiscriminate, even if laser guided. The only one to blame for these childrens' deaths is their father, for keeping them in close proximity to him during his campaign to kill Israelis. If he had any sense, he would send them to a family member who isn't involved with terror activities.
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What about his neighbor's kids? But hey, those sand niggers are ALL terrorists in one way or another, right? Hell, the way [b]I[/b] hear it, every single kid over there is being trained to be a suicide bomber, so that's nine more potential bombings stopped before the can occur--score one for the home team!
The only moral high ground the Arabs can claim is when tragedies like this happen.
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Like most people who take the Israeli side, you seem to think anyone who doesn't think they aren't the forces of goodness and light must think their foes are the good guys. Let me reiterate: Neither one of them has any sort of moral high ground--BOTH groups are equally repugnant.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:46:12 PM EST
What about his neighbor's kids? But hey, those sand niggers are ALL terrorists in one way or another, right?
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You said it, not me. But now that you mention it, yes they are all responsible and the Israelies can never kill enough of them to suit me.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:47:00 PM EST
How are Israeli snipers and infantry supposed to get into Palestinian Gaza without being seen? Not to mention, Israeli snipers are not exactly great. But Isreaeli counter terror intelligence is, and when they know a chief of terror is in a certain place at a certain time, they will want to get him. And they'll use the weapon that will give the highest probability of a success. The neighbors? I am sorry, it is a war. In war, innocent people die. They were not the target. The object of the mission was to kill the terrorist planner, not strike fear into the hearts of Palestinian civilians and to kill them for the sake of being Palestinians. The same cannot be said of the objectives of this terror chief. Again, I insist: The Israelis are not repugnant. They want peace. The Arabs are constantly instigating this conflict and perpetuating the violence. If the Arabs wanted peace, there would be peace tomorrow. But they dont.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:50:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By raven: The neighbors? I am sorry, it is a war. In war, innocent people die. They were not the target. The object of the mission was to kill the terrorist planner, not strike fear into the hearts of Palestinian civilians and to kill them for the sake of being Palestinians. The same cannot be said of the objectives of this terror chief.
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The result is the same, and the Israelis know their tactics lead to selective killing of Palistinians and a feeling of fear in the Palistinian population. Since the Israelis know this to be the result of their actions, and proceed regardless, they are every bit as responsible and dispicable.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:51:16 PM EST
When you consider mass murderers to be heros. You provide moral support for them. You give them haven. Shelter. As opposed to the civilized world, where monsters like this are SHUNNED, TURNED IN, AND HUNTED DOWN LIKE DOGS. You hang out with bad folks, bad things happen. Why do you think Co-op Boards in NYC don't let Gangsta-Rappers move in?
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:54:29 PM EST
Post from kc0hak -
I can only hope the Palistinians win in the long run. (If only to piss off every knee-jerk Palistine hater on the board)
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Well keep on 'hoping' little fellow, cause the likelihood of the Palestinians 'winning' anything in their struggle against Israel is about as dim as, say, the Arabs ever winning a war against Israel![:D] And we know their track record on that! [b]It's 5-zip in favor of Israel.[/b] Let's see, 1948, Israel beats the f*** outta the Arabs; 1956, Israel beats the f*** outta the Egyptians; 1967, Israel beats the f*** ouuta the Arabs; 1973, Israel beats the f*** outta the Arabs; and finally, 1982, Israel beats the f*** outta the Lebanese Druse, the PLO, and other Syrian-backed militias. Are you a betting man? [:D] What do you want to bet that Israel will continue to beat the f*** outta the Arabs every time they manage to lift their heads over the parapets? Until Messiah is come! Heh-heh-heh!
The Palistinians have known for a while that they can't fight a clean war against a disproportionately well equipped enemy.
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Hell, Son, the Palestinians couldn't begin to fight and win a clean war against the Israelis when they had the entire might of the combined Arab armies to assist them against Israel! Chuckle. Doesn't it bother you just a tad that these folks were the same ones who tapped danced around the streets of Gaza and the West Bank on Septemeber 11th? Nope, I suppose not! Eric The(Heh-Heh-Heh)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:55:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 6:14:26 PM EST by raven]
Originally Posted By kc0hak:
Originally Posted By raven: The neighbors? I am sorry, it is a war. In war, innocent people die. They were not the target. The object of the mission was to kill the terrorist planner, not strike fear into the hearts of Palestinian civilians and to kill them for the sake of being Palestinians. The same cannot be said of the objectives of this terror chief.
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The result is the same, and the Israelis know their tactics lead to selective killing of Palistinians and a feeling of fear in the Palistinian population. Since the Israelis know this to be the result of their actions, and proceed regardless, they are every bit as responsible and dispicable.
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Then Americn and English are despicable? Because of their "selective targeting" of German industry which led to German civilian casualities? Therefore, we are no better than the Nazis who conducted the Holocaust and who started the war in the first place? Realize who you are advocating, and what their motivations and objectives are.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:05:08 PM EST
Some people are not able to see things clearly. They can't make a moral judgement, because they are blinded by something... If you wish for the Palestinians to be victorious, remember this: When you show up at the victory party, you'll be seated next to Osama, Saddam, the Mullahs of Iran, the Islamic radicals of Pakistan, and all of Al Qaeda. When they then raise their glasses to toast, "Now it's America's turn to die".... ....will you raise your glass, too?
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:07:43 PM EST
Raven it is hard to reason with some people! The Arabs SUPPORTED the Axis and haven't changed in well over 50 years.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:10:34 PM EST
Now before we even go there, I am Polish, but if you asked me what I am, I would say I am a American, so I am not against any Arab Americans as long as they realize that they are American people, If Poland rose up and said screw America I would say , screw them, because I am a American , and proud of it, I would be ashamed if I was Palestinian American , of what they were doing , killing innocent civilians by suicide bombers, that is the biggest form of cowardice I can imagine, the dumb shits should have learned from the Kamikazes during World War two this is not a solution, it just resolves a nation to persevere.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:10:40 PM EST
Here's your Piece Of Sh|t hero, now: [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20020726/mdf78021.jpg[/img] Here's his Piece Of Sh|t followers: [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20020726/mdf77327.jpg[/img] And here's the results of your POS hero's POS followers' actions: [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020726/capt.1027712231.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl108.jpg[/img] Caption: Israeli police officers stand in front of a bullet-riddled van on a road, south of the West Bank city of Hebron, Friday, July 26, 2002. Palestinian gunmen waiting in ambush fired on two passing Israeli cars Friday near a Jewish settlement in the southern West Bank, killing four people (including a two month old baby) and injuring two children before fleeing, the army said. (AP Photo/Markus Schreiber) I would be a whole lot more careful in figuring out who my heroes were than some of you guys appear to be! Eric The(But,Hey,It'sAFreeCountry)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:14:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zak:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: 100 wounded , it's the bad guys fault, they deserve what they get.
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That statement is akin to saying that if an innocent bystander is shot during a driveby, it's the fault of the target and not the trigger man. I'm sorry, but if a Mk84 comes knocking at your window for the simple crime of living down the block from a terrorist, you DON'T "deserve what you get."
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Zak, you are so far off the mark, you've missed the back stop, a drive by is a senseless kind of thing, being done by gangbangers, or other types of goofballs, this is a country fighting for it's existence. Maybe when you graduate you will understand.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:15:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 6:16:19 PM EST by kc0hak]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Well keep on 'hoping' little fellow, cause the likelihood of the Palestinians 'winning' anything in their struggle against Israel is about as dim as, say, the Arabs ever winning a war against Israel![:D]
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I'll make sure to, big guy.
Are you a betting man? [:D] What do you want to bet that Israel will continue to beat the f*** outta the Arabs every time they manage to lift their heads over the parapets?
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A six-pack of Vanilla Coke will suffice. One of us will eventually have to come to collect when either, or both, sides are a pile of smoldering ruins.
Until Messiah is come! Heh-heh-heh!
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To recycle a quote; "Well keep on 'hoping'"
Hell, Son, the Palestinians couldn't begin to fight and win a clean war against the Israelis when they had the entire might of the combined Arab armies to assist them against Israel!
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Golly, Dad; the fact that they have a superior army gives them a moral high ground, doesn't it?
Doesn't it bother you just a tad that these folks were the same ones who tapped danced around the streets of Gaza and the West Bank on Septemeber 11th? Nope, I suppose not!
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No, it doesn't bother me. Those people in Gaza had nothing to do with the bringing down of the WTC. As such, I couldn't care less what they think.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:17:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zak: That statement is akin to saying that if an innocent bystander is shot during a driveby, it's the fault of the target and not the trigger man. I'm sorry, but if a Mk84 comes knocking at your window for the simple crime of living down the block from a terrorist, you DON'T "deserve what you get."
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If I knew there was a terrorist on my block, I will take care of him, that would be my duty. Ths innocent bystander did not know. No comparisons here. SSD
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:22:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 6:32:47 PM EST by Ho_Lee_Dung]
Originally Posted By kc0hak: .
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[b]2 points: 1) I know several Palistinians/Arabs on a friendly conversational basis. They've all told me that the street demonstrations against the US are a result of US aid to Israel, and that should the US stop aid, most hardliners would lose support. They still won't like American intrusion on their lives, but it'll be less of a problem when they don't see a symbol of American imperialism sitting right on what they perceive to be their land. 2) Of course the Israelis don't chant "Down with the USA". They're too busy finding new ways to get US funding so they can fill their coffers. If you look at it closely, Israel is USELESS to the US's intrests. They control no natural resources, no trade routes; their tech industry is supported in majority by US funding; and they're constantly trying to sell OUR tech to the biggest threat in our future, China[/b] Did you cut and paise this from Young_gullable stupid_and_don't_know_shit_about_anything.com ? At the very least, spell Palestinians correctly if you're going to be their apologist and make claim to "knowing several of them". And this (your statement), has got to be some of the goofiest shit I've ever heard in my life: [b]"I can only hope the Palistinians win in the long run. (If only to piss off every knee-jerk Palistine hater on the board)"[/b] What's this supposed to mean? Perhaps you'd like to see thousands of Israelis die in order to punish AR15.com members who support Israel. Are you still in the 9th grade or what? Obviously you've never seen the battle field. You my friend are a certified couch commando idiot! [flame]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:22:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 6:41:01 PM EST by sniper1az]
You know , I have to side with ERIC THE HUN . Those Arabs have done nothing in the 20th century to impress me .The Israeli have shown great tolerance toward the Palestinians . Because if I was Prime Minister of Israel , I would destroy , flatten to the ground 1 Palestinian village / city for every suicide bomber that does his evil deed .Until they get the message . ERIC , the idiots just don't get it, do they ? The Isralies live in terror every day . How would these LIBERALS that have found this website feel if 11, September happened once a week here in the USA ? Do you think these punks that never picked up ANYTHING let alone an AR or M16 to defend this Nation of ours understand what is really going on in the world ? HELL NO ! Have any of them had relatives suffer under the Nazis or the Communists ? HELL NO ! Because if they did they would KNOW all about opression and terror .I have neighbors who suffered under the Nazis and relatives who FOUGHT the Commies as Freedom Fighters in Hungary .They need to KNOW what it's like to fight 105 Russian tank divisions with a rifle & a wine bottle full of gasoline !
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:22:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: If you wish for the Palestinians to be victorious, remember this: When you show up at the victory party, you'll be seated next to Osama, Saddam, the Mullahs of Iran, the Islamic radicals of Pakistan, and all of Al Qaeda. When they then raise their glasses to toast, "Now it's America's turn to die".... ....will you raise your glass, too?
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That's beautiful. I need to get a copy of the book you stole that from. A Palistinian state isn't necessary paved with the blood of Americans, nor does it require the support of hardliners. It just takes the US to withdraw support from a hardline state that refuses to compromise.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:24:26 PM EST
Why is it that every POS nation in the world will park their military hardware in the midst of their own civilian population and then 'dare' the civilized world to try and take them out? But more importantly, why are there Americans who don't see any difference between such tactics and the way that the United States and Israel chooses to fight their wars, with due regard not only for their own citizens, but for the citizens of their enemies? I give up? Is it simple moral equivalency that has taken the place of good old fashioned common sense in this country? Eric The(How[u]Old[/u]AreYouGuys,Anyway?ThenYouShouldKnowBetter!)­Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:29:53 PM EST
Post from kc0hak -
A Palistinian state isn't necessary paved with the blood of Americans, nor does it require the support of hardliners. It just takes the US to withdraw support from a hardline state that refuses to compromise.
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That'll be the day! There will never come a time in the history of this country that we will withdraw support from the Israelis. Never. Not even if thimble brained folks are given the right to vote! Wait a minute, they already are! But you just keep on hoping, Son![:D] Eric The(AreYouRegisteredYet,Sonny?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:32:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 6:36:23 PM EST by kc0hak]
Originally Posted By Ho_Lee_Dung: Did you cut and paise this from Young_gullable stupid_and_don't_know_shit_about_anything.com ?
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That's clever. I presume you stole that line from the same.
At the very least, spell Palestinians correctly if you're going to be their apologist and make claim to "knowing several of them".
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You're nit-picking. Make your case as it relates to the arguement, not the presentation. Besides, I have to fend off a boatload of you pro Israel people. Typing at this rate, I'm bound to make typos and slip into old spelling methods.
And this (your statement), has got to be some of the goofiest shit I've ever heard in my life: What's this supposed to mean? Perhaps you'd like to see thousands of Israelis die in order to punish AR15.com member who support Israel. Are you still in the 9th grade or what?
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I say it to illustrate my point that neither side is correct, and that in sheer spite of hardline supporters on this board, I am taking the opposing view. Helps stimulate [hopefully] intellegent conversation. Call this trolling, if you like.
Obviously you never seen the battle field.
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You are correct.
You my friend are a certified couch commando idiot! [flame]
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If you could kindly elaborate on why combat experience is necessary in arguing the Israel-Palestinian debate, I would be eternally grateful. Edited to fix some Yoda-esque phrasings and grammatical issues.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:38:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By kc0hak:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: If suicide bombers were coming into America and blowing up Americans every other day we would change our tune in one second. The PLO is anti American and chants death to America , do you see any Israelis doing this , I think it is time to get off of the fence and chose sides. 100 wounded , it's the bad guys fault, they deserve what they get.
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2 points: 1) I know several Palistinians/Arabs on a friendly conversational basis. They've all told me that the street demonstrations against the US are a result of US aid to Israel, and that should the US stop aid, most hardliners would lose support. They still won't like American intrusion on their lives, but it'll be less of a problem when they don't see a symbol of American imperialism sitting right on what they perceive to be their land. 2) Of course the Israelis don't chant "Down with the USA". They're too busy finding new ways to get US funding so they can fill their coffers. If you look at it closely, Israel is USELESS to the US's intrests. They control no natural resources, no trade routes; their tech industry is supported in majority by US funding; and they're constantly trying to sell OUR tech to the biggest threat in our future, China.
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[:K] Got to call Troll on this one. [;)]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:38:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Never. Not even if thimble brained folks are given the right to vote!
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Count my thimble minded vote cast against yours.
But you just keep on hoping, Son![:D]
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I'll make sure to, dad.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:43:06 PM EST
Did it occur to anybody here who's criticizing Israel for using "excessive force" that we just killed thousands (quite frankly I believe probably tens of thousands) of "civilians" in Afghanistan during our ATTEMPT to kill a few hundred hard-core terrorists. Remember, as Bush, etc. said in the beginning, we weren't going to Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban (we did, oops!), or to harm the "peace loving people of Afghanistan" (I guess the villages we carpet bombed off the map were 100% non-peace loving. And besides, all those dirt farmers who have no idea where the place called "New York" is pose a huge terrorist threat to us!). But surprise, we did these things. Now before the ignoramuses jump on my back, I'm glad we did. We did what we had to do. Unfortunately we did it in an extremely heavy-handed way. The alternative would have been for many more of our soldiers to die going after Al Qaeda. Americans *have* to accept that this use of force is necessary. Because, for heaven's sake, if what Israel is doing/has done/will do to the various Arabic citizens of several countries who call themselves "Palestinians" is a "war crime" or "barbaric" or "overkill," then the amount of collateral damage WE have caused in recent conflicts is positively Hitlerian in comparison.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:46:32 PM EST
KcOhak, because when you have been shot at by some guy who has a wife and kids at home, and you got to kill him before he kills you, you learn real fast, war is no good, but good must be the final outcome. To kill a man is not a good thing, and anyone who has done it knows this , because at night when he goes to bed and thinks about this, he realizes, to be right is what it is all about. Your just a young snot trolling at this point I think. When the American flag goes by at a parade I think about all those who have gone to the grave to give you the right to your goofball opinions. Maybe you should think about them. Anyway , back to the point, this is the situation Israel is in now.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:52:00 PM EST
Zak - kc0hak - folks like yourselves are why America's headed down the shitter. Christ almighty, libs are dumb as dirt. "...Arabs..... told me that the street demonstrations against the US are a result of US aid to Israel, and that should the US stop aid, most hardliners would lose support. They still won't like American intrusion on their lives, but it'll be less of a problem when they don't see a symbol of American imperialism sitting right on what they perceive to be their land." American Imperialism? HAHAHA!!!!! What - USVI? - Puerto Rico? Yeah - that US Imperialism IRON FIST! HA! Oh - and you think that Arabs should dictate US policy? "Do what we want, US, and we won't kill you any more". Laughable. This is the best nation on earth - period. Boat people don't risk their lives to get to any Arab shitholes.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:00:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 7:03:13 PM EST by Cincinnatus]
Originally Posted By kc0hak:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: If you wish for the Palestinians to be victorious, remember this: When you show up at the victory party, you'll be seated next to Osama, Saddam, the Mullahs of Iran, the Islamic radicals of Pakistan, and all of Al Qaeda. When they then raise their glasses to toast, "Now it's America's turn to die".... ....will you raise your glass, too?
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That's beautiful. I need to get a copy of the book you stole that from.
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That's mine, thank you. What the hell would YOU do with a book, anyway?
A Palistinian state isn't necessary paved with the blood of Americans, nor does it require the support of hardliners. It just takes the US to withdraw support from a hardline state that refuses to compromise.
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If the weak palestinians find that suicide bombing is the way to impose their will, what will we do if they want US to do something? Will you advise that we just do what they say? That we "compromise"? Face why you REALLY want the Palestinians to win. Be honest with yourself. It will help you think more clearly. We support Israel, because thet're the good guys. That you can't see that is a shame. Were I to ask you WHO the good guys were in the conflict.... YOU wouldn't say the Palestinians. No doubt you'd say something about how they're both the same, and that you hope they kill eachother. Moral relativism at its finest.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:01:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 7:02:05 PM EST by kc0hak]
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: KcOhak, because when you have been shot at by some guy who has a wife and kids at home, and you got to kill him before he kills you, you learn real fast, war is no good, but good must be the final outcome.
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Your reply is appreciated, but this concept does not require combat experience. Everyone accepts this is the truth, but everyone debates what is the "good".
To kill a man is not a good thing, and anyone who has done it knows this , because at night when he goes to bed and thinks about this, he realizes, to be right is what it is all about.
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Certainly, but your "right" is not the same as another's. And when your idea conflicts with another's in a serious, serious way, the only resolutions are separation or destruction. Hence my support of separate states. Nobody's gonna carpet bomb anyone else, so you might as well minimise your conflicts, because the other side's not gonna disappear, period.
Your just a young snot trolling at this point I think.
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Can't argue with that.
When the American flag goes by at a parade I think about all those who have gone to the grave to give you the right to your goofball opinions.
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They gave their lives for EVERYBODY's right to think and say as they please. I can't go into combat, die, and have it declared that my death was for one group. Everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion; the most you can do is try to change it. In another world, if our views were switched, I could argue that your point is stupid, and have the exact merit in my arguement; specifically, none. I don't appreciate you calling my opinions "goofball". I think they have merit, and being a logical person, you ought to consider them seriously, as I have considered yours.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:03:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 7:04:06 PM EST by bountyhunter]
KcOhak, what merit????????????????
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:11:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tate: Zak - kc0hak - folks like yourselves are why America's headed down the shitter. Christ almighty, libs are dumb as dirt. "...Arabs..... told me that the street demonstrations against the US are a result of US aid to Israel, and that should the US stop aid, most hardliners would lose support. They still won't like American intrusion on their lives, but it'll be less of a problem when they don't see a symbol of American imperialism sitting right on what they perceive to be their land." American Imperialism? HAHAHA!!!!! What - USVI? - Puerto Rico? Yeah - that US Imperialism IRON FIST! HA! Oh - and you think that Arabs should dictate US policy? "Do what we want, US, and we won't kill you any more". Laughable. This is the best nation on earth - period. Boat people don't risk their lives to get to any Arab shitholes.
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Alas! My long lost brother has emerged from the darkened heap! In other words...Ditto, man!
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:12:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 7:16:59 PM EST by kc0hak]
Originally Posted By Tate: Zak - kc0hak - folks like yourselves are why America's headed down the shitter.
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I'm glad to oblige.
Christ almighty, libs are dumb as dirt.
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I'm not a lib; I just happen not to share the exact same views on all subjects as whatever political group you're affliated with. I would say that my views are for the most part, republican in nature.
American Imperialism? HAHAHA!!!!! What - USVI? - Puerto Rico?
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No, I don't mean it in a blind, flag waving, "we want rights, but don't want to give back", or "Duh [insert group] man bein o-pressin me" way. I mean it in the sense of the definition; extending one's influence to countries exterior to your own through economic or political means. I don't see it this way, but if you're an Arab, it sure looks that way to you. A country far away is trying to change your traditional way of life, and using a local "puppet" to do its bidding.
Oh - and you think that Arabs should dictate US policy? "Do what we want, US, and we won't kill you any more". Laughable.
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No, I mean the opposite. No country should control another's affairs. The arguement posed is more close to "Stop interfering in our matters, and we'll refrain from stopping you ourselves"
This is the best nation on earth - period.
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I'd agree, but not based on an automatic nationalist-oriented neuro programming.(Not directing this towards you). Something could be said for Sealand, though... Free ultra high speed Net access for the duration of your employment; but I digress.
Boat people don't risk their lives to get to any Arab shitholes.
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Course not.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:23:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By kc0hak: You're right- there are no clean fights. That's why the Palistinians are using suicide bombings. Vicious cycle. The Palistinians have known for a while that they can't fight a clean war against a disproportionately well equipped enemy. I can only hope the Palistinians win in the long run. (If only to piss off every knee-jerk Palistine hater on the board)
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[:K] [-=(_)=-]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:25:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Now before we even go there, I am Polish, but if you asked me what I am, I would say I am a American, so I am not against any Arab Americans as long as they realize that they are American people, If Poland rose up and said screw America I would say , screw them, because I am a American
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Despite the fact that I disagree with just about everything else you've posted in this thread, as a fellow Pole I have to say: Well said, sir. Our country would be a better place if more imigrants behaved like my grandparents (and whatever generation of your family migrated here) and actually adopted this country the way it adopted them. Reminds me of grade school, where our teacher was discussing ethnicity, but instead called it [i]nationality[/i]. A whole class period went by while she insisted my "nationality" was Polish, and I kept correcting her and saying "No, ma'am, I'm an [i]American[/i] with polish ancestors." Would it be presumptuous of me to assume you dislike being called a "Polish-American?"
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:30:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Zak, you are so far off the mark, you've missed the back stop, a drive by is a senseless kind of thing, being done by gangbangers, or other types of goofballs, this is a country fighting for it's existence.
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I'm willing to bet cold hard cash that if you ask the gangbangers they'll claim they were fighting for their existence against a hated enemy that MUST be destroyed. The phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" seems to apply in this case... BTW, I've never said (nor meant to imply) that Israel didn't have the right to fight its war any way it wants to--only that its choice of tactics is just as bad as its "morally inferior" enemy, and that there is NO WAY my tax dollars should be arming their troops.
Maybe when you graduate you will understand.
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Excuse me? Just exactly how old do you assume I am?
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:30:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zak:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Now before we even go there, I am Polish, but if you asked me what I am, I would say I am a American, so I am not against any Arab Americans as long as they realize that they are American people, If Poland rose up and said screw America I would say , screw them, because I am a American
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Despite the fact that I disagree with just about everything else you've posted in this thread, as a fellow Pole I have to say: Well said, sir. Our country would be a better place if more imigrants behaved like my grandparents (and whatever generation of your family migrated here) and actually adopted this country the way it adopted them. Reminds me of grade school, where our teacher was discussing ethnicity, but instead called it [i]nationality[/i]. A whole class period went by while she insisted my "nationality" was Polish, and I kept correcting her and saying "No, ma'am, I'm an [i]American[/i] with polish ancestors." Would it be presumptuous of me to assume you dislike being called a "Polish-American?"
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No
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:32:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By kc0hak:
Originally Posted By Tate: Zak - kc0hak - folks like yourselves are why America's headed down the shitter.
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I'm glad to oblige.
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You're [b]glad to oblige[/b] 'America's slide down the shitter'? What in the Hell are you saying that for? You're glad that America is headed downhill? What a seriously flawed piece of work you are! There's nothing, absolutely nothing, that you have said here tonight that is the least bit enlightening in any way. Your discussion is worthless, it is without any depth, it is totally without 'merit', and it is a horrible waste of bandwidth.
I'm not a lib; I just happen not to share the exact same views on all subjects as whatever political group you're affliated with. I would say that my views are for the most part, republican in nature.
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Bullsh|t, not 'republican' with a small 'r', not 'Republican' with a capital 'R', and certainly not 'republican' in any classical sense. You sound even worse than the typical liberal idiot, and I had not thought that was possible.
I don't see it this way, but if you're an Arab, it sure looks that way to you.
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Only if you are a very stupid Arab. One that is totally unaware of the history of the Middle East for, say, the past 3,000 years, or, even the last 54 years.
A country far away is trying to change your traditional way of life, and using a local "puppet" to do its bidding.
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As I say, only a very stupid Arab would hold such a view. Israel was beating the crap outta Arabs long before the United States decided to get involved in their conflict. As a matter of fact, the US maintained an arms embargo against Israel for the first twenty years of its existence. Pretty stupid for an Arab not to know [u]that[/u]!
No country should control another's affairs.
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Get the US out of Afghanistan, eh? Did you feel this way before Sept 11th, or did you just lately receive this epiphany? Pretty convenient, eh? [:D] Eric The(You'reBeginningToBoreMe,GoAwayTroll)Hun[>­]:)]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:38:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By SSD: If I knew there was a terrorist on my block, I will take care of him, that would be my duty.
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I'd like to think I'd do the same.
Ths innocent bystander did not know. No comparisons here.
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Actually, now that you mention it, I find the comparison to be even stronger--people who live in neighborhoods infested by gangbangers KNOW they are there, yet seem to do little about it. By your own logic--since they don't go out and remove the gangbangers--they deserve what they get, right?
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:39:13 PM EST
Now that it's purely personal, and the argument is over, I'll be heading off. Thanks for the chat, Eric, others. Hope to be collecting on that Vanilla Coke soon, Dad.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:42:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tate: Zak - kc0hak - folks like yourselves are why America's headed down the shitter.
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Normally, I like a more reasoned, intelligent response, but dude, fuck off. America is NOT "going down the shitter" because I don't happen to agree with the policies of Israel. Go buy a fucking clue.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:45:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gunner1X: In other words...Ditto, man!
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Stuff like this just cracks me up. I don't agree with you on the middle-east "situation" and I'm a liberal who is destroying this country from within. At least I haven't been called an anti-semite yet, but I'm sure that's coming soon.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:46:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By kc0hak: Now that it's purely personal, and the argument is over, I'll be heading off. Thanks for the chat, Eric, others. Hope to be collecting on that Vanilla Coke soon, Dad.
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[>(]
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:50:09 PM EST
If you agree that it is Ok to kill a few civilians for the better good, then that puts the actions of Tim Mcveigh in a new light. He killed a few civilians, but he was shooting for those evil ATF agents..... Just they knew he was gunning for them.
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