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Posted: 3/7/2002 8:14:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: You've got to read these and be outraged, if you are an American! [url]http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml[/url] [url] http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744&contrassID=/has%5C[/url] DaMan The US is controlled by Israel, I mean if this was any other country (say iraq) the US would have gone to war with them, but they seem to turn a blind eye toward Israe, heck I think those israeli politicians probably have NO alligence to america... |
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Posted: 3/7/2002 9:51:24 PM EDT
[#2]
How many planes full of American civilians have Jews flown into buildings full of American civilians lately?
How many Jews have walked into restaurants and stores full of civilians and set off explosives lately? Where's the real threat? |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 4:57:56 AM EDT
[#3]
I should be outraged? Why?
In one article, An Israeli company that had an interest in providing communications monitoring services to our governmental agencies was found to have been infiltrated by Criminals and possibly former operatives of Israeli intelligence, who had been subverted by organized crime. This intrusion under a better leadership for our country was discovered and is being taken care of with the cooperation of Both US and Israeli authorities. That is what cooperating partners are supposed to do when they discover the sort of intrusion that was found. The fault here is with our government for implementing technologies and programs that we did not have sufficient expertise to understand. The smarter spy will get his information, in this case it appears that the smarter spies were employed by organized crime. It is therefore incumbent on us to have the smarter spies. In the second Israel based employees of a US owned company apparently received some sort of pre warning of the events of 911, They employees notified their superiors who contacted the Israeli authorities who contacted the FBI and are continuing to cooperate in the investigation. Sounds like right down the line everyone did the good honorable and right thing. Why should this outrage me at all? |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 6:44:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: I should be outraged? Why? Why should this outrage me at all? The Israelis dump a bunch of horse crap on our heads! But that's OK to dual-loyalists like Shotar! He comes up smiling and saying its's great, "Because with all that crap, there's bound to be a pony nearby!" I'm glad you posted your take on the articles, Shotar. Because it shows the length you'll go to in denying Israel's spying on the US [b]for her own interests[/b]! But, Eric is worse! He still maintains that Jonathon Pollard is innocent! [:P] DaMan Here's portion of the first article you were referring to: Read it again! You might understand it better this time. [b]U.S. Police and Intelligence Hit by Spy Network[/b] Charles R. Smith Wednesday, Dec. 19, 2001 Spies Tap Police and Government Phones In the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, the FBI has stumbled on the largest espionage ring ever discovered inside the United States. The U.S. Justice Department is now holding nearly 100 Israeli citizens with direct ties to foreign military, criminal and intelligence services. The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned companies that currently perform almost all the official wiretaps for U.S. local, state and federal law enforcement. The U.S. law enforcement wiretaps, authorized by the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), appear to have been breached by organized crime units working inside Israel and the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad. Both Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were warned on Oct. 18 in a hand-delivered letter from local, state and federal law enforcement officials. The warning stated, "Law enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted." The spy ring enabled criminals to use reverse wiretaps against U.S. intelligence and law enforcement operations. The illegal monitoring may have resulted in the deaths of several informants and reportedly spoiled planned anti-drug raids on crime syndicates. The discovery of a major spy ring inside the United States is straining the already tense relations with Israel. Although, Israel denied any involvement with the penetration of the U.S. wiretap system, the CIA and FBI are investigating the direct government ties to the former Israeli military and intelligence officials now being held by the Justice Department. Israeli Company Provides U.S. Wiretaps One company reported to be under investigation is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm. Comverse provides almost all the wiretapping equipment and software for U.S. law enforcement. Custom computers and software made by Comverse are tied into the U.S. phone network in order to intercept, record and store wiretapped calls, and at the same time transmit them to investigators. The penetration of Comverse reportedly allowed criminals to wiretap law enforcement communications in reverse and foil authorized wiretaps with advance warning. One major drug bust operation planned by the Los Angeles police was foiled by what now appear to be reverse wiretaps placed on law enforcement phones by the criminal spy ring. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 6:56:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Gosh, you must have missed the one about the spy ring in Bentonvill, Arkansas. They were trying to infiltrate Wal-Mart and fix prices, there-by causing America to suffer an economic collapse!! Oh the humanity!! The outrage!!
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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:03:45 AM EDT
[#6]
[b]Part I [/b] of a Fox News four part series that got spiked.
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/elevatorbrewing/houston52.htm[/url] DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:04:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: I should be outraged? Why? Why should this outrage me at all? The Israelis dump a bunch of horse crap on our heads! But that's OK to dual-loyalists like Shotar! He comes up smiling and saying its's great, "Because with all that crap, there's bound to be a pony nearby!" I'm glad you posted your take on the articles, Shotar. Because it shows the length you'll go to in denying Israel's spying on the US [b]for her own interests[/b]! But, Eric is worse! He still maintains that Jonathon Pollard is innocent! [:P] DaMan Here's portion of the first article you were referring to: Read it again! You might understand it better this time. [b]U.S. Police and Intelligence Hit by Spy Network[/b] Charles R. Smith Wednesday, Dec. 19, 2001 Spies Tap Police and Government Phones In the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, the FBI has stumbled on the largest espionage ring ever discovered inside the United States. The U.S. Justice Department is now holding nearly 100 Israeli citizens with direct ties to foreign military, criminal and intelligence services. The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned companies that currently perform almost all the official wiretaps for U.S. local, state and federal law enforcement. The U.S. law enforcement wiretaps, authorized by the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), appear to have been breached by organized crime units working inside Israel and the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad. Both Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were warned on Oct. 18 in a hand-delivered letter from local, state and federal law enforcement officials. The warning stated, "Law enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted." The spy ring enabled criminals to use reverse wiretaps against U.S. intelligence and law enforcement operations. The illegal monitoring may have resulted in the deaths of several informants and reportedly spoiled planned anti-drug raids on crime syndicates. The discovery of a major spy ring inside the United States is straining the already tense relations with Israel. Although, Israel denied any involvement with the penetration of the U.S. wiretap system, the CIA and FBI are investigating the direct government ties to the former Israeli military and intelligence officials now being held by the Justice Department. Israeli Company Provides U.S. Wiretaps One company reported to be under investigation is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm. Comverse provides almost all the wiretapping equipment and software for U.S. law enforcement. Custom computers and software made by Comverse are tied into the U.S. phone network in order to intercept, record and store wiretapped calls, and at the same time transmit them to investigators. The penetration of Comverse reportedly allowed criminals to wiretap law enforcement communications in reverse and foil authorized wiretaps with advance warning. One major drug bust operation planned by the Los Angeles police was foiled by what now appear to be reverse wiretaps placed on law enforcement phones by the criminal spy ring. Dual citizenships but undivided loyalty. To Israel. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:28:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: I should be outraged? Why? Why should this outrage me at all? The Israelis dump a bunch of horse crap on our heads! But that's OK to dual-loyalists like Shotar! He comes up smiling and saying its's great, "Because with all that crap, [size=6]there's bound to be a pony nearby!"[/size=6] (emphasis added by garandman) Now that's comedy!!!!!! With all that crap, there just HAS TO BE a pony nearby!!! I'm gonna look for the pony in all this crap!!!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA For my money, ANYONE spying on us ain't our friends. But I guess for some of you, with Israel ([b]assuming the truth is as the article indicates[/b]) its OK cuz their our ONLY friend in the Middle east. I spoze y'all let the guy next door spy on your nekkid wife too, since he's not as bad as the idiot down the street from him. We KNOW the news networks are biased, and omit stories at will (Bernard Goldberg's "Bias" is proof of this) . I suggest ya'll take a look at the ownership of the networks and the NYT, and then decide who has a REASON to bias the stories that get coverage, and decide which stories get omitted all together. Israel spies on us, and we call them "friends." the Commies used to have a few sayings this reminds me of - "They'll give us the noose to hang them with." - Brezhnyevh (sp?) "Spit in their faces, and they'll call it 'dew'." - Mao (I beleive) the "they" they were speaking of?? The USA. Our naievete' as a nation knows no bounds. But we keep searchin' fer that elusive pony. [:D] |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:37:33 AM EDT
[#9]
Here the home page for the four part FOX series on Israeli spying:
[url]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/blackmail.html[/url] DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:45:46 AM EDT
[#10]
And the next time Eric the Hun comes up with images of Palestinians rejoicicing and "uluating" when hearing news of 911.... I think he show go read the article below!
Evidently Palestinians weren't the only ones celebrating the 911 attack! [url]http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=75266∓contrassID=2[/url] DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 8:37:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Please note my whole response, and read the whole article, Not Duhman's snipped segments. He is of course asking that I be outraged at the Israeli government in the context of the articles written.
In one article the US and Israeli governments are cooperating to uncover criminals that infiltrated and subverted a contractor for the US Government. In the Other article It is pointed out that certain Israeli citizens may have received information about 911 and then notified the proper authorities in the US and Israel about the information they received. Seems the intelligence level around here decreases as those that work are away. Why should this cause me to be outraged at the whole Israeli people? At the criminals certainly, at the previous administration who brought us these programs, probably, but not at the Israelis. I tend to base my outrage on facts, not conjecture. I am certainly no less loyal an American than anyone else on this board, but I do read the articles and can certainly discern fact from innuendo. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 9:24:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:In one article the US and Israeli governments are cooperating to uncover criminals that infiltrated and subverted a contractor for the US Government. In the Other article It is pointed out that certain Israeli citizens may have received information about 911 and then notified the proper authorities in the US and Israel about the information they received. The Israeli government is cooperating with the US to uncover the spies they sent to collect intelligence information (Mossad)and were discovered by the FBI? [b]Isn't that just sweet of them??! What friends![/b] But youknow what? I didn't see any mention of the Israeli govenment "co-operating" n rounding up the spies. [b]be you could point the part out to us, eh, Shotar[/b]! Nice try.....but it [b]still looks like horse crap to me[/b]! [b]WHERE'S THE PONY, SHOTAR[/b]??!! [:P] Quotes from the article: The U.S. Justice Department is now holding nearly 100 Israeli citizens with direct ties to [b]foreign military[/b], criminal and [b]intelligence services[/b]. The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned companies that currently perform almost all the official wiretaps for U.S. local, state and federal law enforcement. ..... appear to have been breached by [b]organized crime units working [b]inside Israel[/b] and the [b]Israeli intelligence service, MOSSAD.[/b] The spy ring enabled criminals to use reverse wiretaps against [b]U.S. intelligence[/b] and law enforcement operations. Israel denied any involvement with the penetration of the U.S. wiretap system, the CIA and FBI are investigating the [b]direct government ties[/b] to the former [b]Israeli military and intelligence officials[/b] now being held by the Justice Department. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 9:25:22 AM EDT
[#13]
By Allah, would you guys stop arguing??!
I'm having a bad day. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 9:27:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I tend to base my outrage on facts, not conjecture. .....I do read the articles and can certainly discern fact from innuendo. OK, here's some FACTS for ya.... From teh article....(emphasis added by me) [i]Spies Tap Police and Government Phones In the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, the FBI has stumbled on the largest espionage ring ever discovered inside the United States. The U.S. Justice Department is now holding nearly [/i] [size=4]100 Israeli citizens [/size=4] [i]with direct ties to foreign military, criminal and intelligence services. The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned companies that currently perform almost [/i] [b]all the official wiretaps for U.S. local, state and federal law enforcement.[/b][i] The U.S. law enforcement wiretaps, authorized by the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), appear to have been breached by[/i] [b] organized crime units working inside Israel and the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad.[/b] [i]The spy ring enabled criminals to use reverse wiretaps [/i] [b]against U.S. intelligence and law enforcement operations.[/b][i] The illegal monitoring may have resulted in the [/i][b][i]deaths of several informants ...[/i] Let's recap here.... Foreign nationals.... ...tied to organized crime.... ....who set up a front organization to create a monopoly on ALL out wiretapping activities in the ENTIRE US.... ....making it the LARGEST espionage ring EVER in this country.... ....used reverse wiretaps on US intelligenceand law enforcment agencies.... ...which led to the deaths of several US operatives..... ...oh and they had ties within Israel and the Mossad. If you JUST replace Israel with "China" you'd be frothing at the mouth. But since its Israel, no biggie. ALL of the above are UNDISPUTED FACTS. So, I'm waiting fer that "outrage" that you "tend to base on facts..." waiting....waiting....waiting..... Ahhhhh, fergit it. I know you are gonna claim the reporter musta got it worng, or this is from a Hamas news agency, or somebody with an anti-Israel bias put this fabrication together, or the MOST OBVIOUS thing here, that I am an anti-Semite, but facts are facts. Your problem (I presume) is that you have as a STARTING point for your belieif system "Israel is NOT capable of evil." Ohh, (you are thinking) maybe they made a mistake, or they got caught up in something against their will, or the story is biased, or the most obvious thing here, I am an anti_semite, and those are all your excuses. But you REFUSE to accept that maybe...just maybe....Israel ain't the Pollyannish friend to us we've been led to beleive she is. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 9:51:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Does [i]anybody[/i] not think that [i]any[/i] country with any intel capability at all is not spying on us?
Those that think only the declared enemies of the US and the like are engaged in espionage against the US are the naive ones. Personally, I think that the Intelligence services of [i]any[/i] other country would be derelict in their duty if they [i]did not[/i] attempt to spy on the US. That's the real world. Do I "like" it? Of course not. But that's the way it's always been, and always will be. I can't imagine a sentient person being surprised that a nation nominally friendly to us, such as Israel, Britain, Germany, Australia, et.al., is spying on the US. I'd be surprised if they [i]weren't[/i]! |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 10:01:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Does [i]anybody[/i] not think that [i]any[/i] country with any intel capability at all is not spying on us? You, know, raf! That excuse for Israels spying and intelligence gathering in the US has been [b]just a tad overworked[/b]! If Britain had a total monopoly on the tapping of US citizens, businesses and government agencies, and was using it for illegal purposes and espionage, [b]YOU'D BE SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF YOU LUNGS![/b] [b]BUT IT'S OK FOR ISRAEL TO DO THAT[/b]! DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 10:08:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Re-read my post, DaMan. I said I didn't like the situation. Learn to read before you type.
Edited to add: And [i]DON'T EVEN THINK[/i] of trying to tar me with some pro/anti (name some group label). I'm for the US and its interests, first, last, and always! |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 10:16:31 AM EDT
[#18]
When Slick and The HildaBeast took over bout 9 yrs ago, the first thing they
did was fire every Federal Judge they could and replaced them with their own. Next they went for the Justice Dept, The FBI, Secret Service, CIA, DEA, and every agency and gutted them again replacing them with their own kind.. The good guys ran for cover...how many said da hell wid it and pulled the pin? From what I heard ..many Next major US companies with defense contracts are sending our most sensitive techology to China...a conduit to the middle east...as well as our most unfavored nations..N Korea, Vietnam, etc etc...The same for certain weapons system.. Now whether you choose to believe this or not Israel is our [b]best[/b] allie in the Middle East...we are fresh outta friends in this world if you havent noticed...lets talk about spies...Tens of thousands of Chinese students in Universities...maybe you dont realize it ..but the most sensitive research in bio weapons, electronics, and various other defense realated research happens in Universities (the atomic bomb was made at the Univ of Chicago) and thats where the Chinese spies are...in the Universities..they are even senior researchers..heads of projects...govt. employees.. Then lets talk about the immigration policies of the Clintlers...millions without background checks..milions on visas...just dissapeared...whistleblowers in immigration harrased..Our country is awash in potential terrorists and terror cells not to mention what comes into our country daily.. Israel still needs to look out for itself..to stay alive..She is our best hope in the Middle East...if she is spying inside CONUS is it not possible that given the traitors inside our own government that she can provide our best people with intel gotten from spying on the worst of us...and will...... just my opinion..but I wouldnt sell Israel too short..given the history of our own leadership under the clintons and friends...for they are still in power..and are not patriots..again imo |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 10:18:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Does [i]anybody[/i] not think that [i]any[/i] country with any intel capability at all is not spying on us? That's the real world. Do I "like" it? Of course not. But that's the way it's always been, and always will be. People DIED man!!!!! THAT is the REAL world. BECAUSE of their hostile actions. I don't think a shrug of the shoulders and an "Oh well" is appropriate here. Those that think only the declared enemies of the US and the like are engaged in espionage against the US are the naive ones. Personally, I think that the Intelligence services of [i]any[/i] other country would be derelict in their duty if they [i]did not[/i] attempt to spy on the US. I can't imagine a sentient person being surprised that a nation nominally friendly to us, such as Israel, Britain, Germany, Australia, et.al., is spying on the US. I'd be surprised if they [i]weren't[/i]! Well, I imagine you were pretty "naieve" too then when China was stealing our nuclear secrets, and you gave a big "Oh well - they are just doing their job." Right? You weren't mad at China then were you?? Cuz the ONLY difference here is that China has OPENLY sworn to destroy us. Israel hasn't voiced her intentions. China was just "doin' her job," right? FRIENDS DON'T SPY ON FRIENDS. Do you let your "friends" peek in on your naked wife, saying "Hey - they're just 'being guys' - that's what guys do." I don't think so. I'm sorry, but from my vantage point, the inexplicable willingness to give Israel a pass here is coming from somewhere else. Where I don't know and won't speculate. No flames intended, just befuddled. By RAF: I accidentally entered this topic whilst making a reply to it. My bad, but I hope I left it unaltered. Please let me know if I accidentally altered it. My apologies. RAF. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 10:28:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Nation states have no permanent friends and no permanent enemies, only interests.
Any nation not looking after its own interests will not long survive in the international jungle. The fact that other nations, whether nominally "friendly" or nominally "unfriendly" are spying on us is neither unexpected nor novel. They are simply looking to their own interests, pure and simple. Just as the US does. Anybody think the US doesn't have intel ops in Britain, Germany, Japan, and Israel, just to name a few? |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 10:53:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Does [i]anybody[/i] not think that [i]any[/i] country with any intel capability at all is not spying on us? That's the real world. Do I "like" it? Of course not. But that's the way it's always been, and always will be. People DIED man!!!!! THAT is the REAL world. BECAUSE of their hostile actions. I don't think a shrug of the shoulders and an "Oh well" is appropriate here. Read what I said again. I simply acknowledge reality. I NEVER said I approved of any anti-US actions. Those that think only the declared enemies of the US and the like are engaged in espionage against the US are the naive ones. Personally, I think that the Intelligence services of [i]any[/i] other country would be derelict in their duty if they [i]did not[/i] attempt to spy on the US. I can't imagine a sentient person being surprised that a nation nominally friendly to us, such as Israel, Britain, Germany, Australia, et.al., is spying on the US. I'd be surprised if they [i]weren't[/i]! Well, I imagine you were pretty "naieve" too then when China was stealing our nuclear secrets, and you gave a big "Oh well - they are just doing their job." Right? You weren't mad at China then were you?? Cuz the ONLY difference here is that China has OPENLY sworn to destroy us. Israel hasn't voiced her intentions. China was just "doin' her job," right? Please show ONE WORD stated by me that approves of anti-American activity. You are trying to put words in my mouth, and that's B.S. FRIENDS DON'T SPY ON FRIENDS. Do you let your "friends" peek in on your naked wife, saying "Hey - they're just 'being guys' - that's what guys do." I don't think so. I'm sorry, but from my vantage point, the inexplicable willingness to give Israel a pass here is coming from somewhere else. Where I don't know and won't speculate. My G/F has the sense to draw the blinds, because she knows some people might look, even friends, inadvertently. Again, I'm giving NO ONE a pass here, simply stating how the real world works, like or not. No flames intended, just befuddled. That's not a flame, Garandman, that's you accusing me of condoning espionage against the US, and implicitly of being treasonous. Let me make this very clear: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT NOR REASON TO MAKE SUCH A CHARGE. An retraction and apology is in order Garandman. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 10:55:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Well, RAF -
I saw that. [}:D] |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 11:01:08 AM EDT
[#23]
What, my goof? Look at your post again.
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Posted: 3/8/2002 11:12:03 AM EDT
[#24]
RAF _
I NEVER EVER said you were unpatriotic, so I have NOTHING to apologize for. Here's what I said. FIRST - When you say "That's just the way it is" re: Israel spying on us, I equate that with "Oh well." and a shrug of the shoulders. When I say "That's just teh way it is" I'm talking about the rust spot on the front fender of my truck - NOT the death of US operatives which was CAUSED by the espionage of a supposedly friendly nation. Its a HUGE disconnect I'm sensing here. SECOND - Israel spies on us, and you say "That's teh way it is." Well China also spied on us. I ask rhetorically "Did you also regard that as 'That's the way it is.'"??? My recollection is you DID NOT. Like the rest of us, you were outraged. AS I could remember NOT specifically, I didn't want to ASSUME you said something you didn't, or put words in your mouth. So I addressed it rhetorically with a question. With Israel, spying on us I get an "Oh well" from you. With China, spying on us gets a reaction of outrage from you. Those two positions are contradictory, IMO. I'm not trying to say you approved of China, I'm saying you were outraged by China, but give Israel a pass. THAT is a contradiction, IMO. If you re-read what I wrote, you'll see that. Now as far as me accusing you of "condoning of espionage" you can clear that up. You can simply produce here a scathing imdictment of Israel spying on us, blaming them for teh death of our operatives, SAME as I recall you did with China. Thus far you haven't. Thus far, even though you KNOW our people died because of their espionage, you are saying "That's the way it goes." And I am befuddled by it. MAINLY Because I [size=6]KNOW [/size=6] you (as much as I can know you via the internet), to be as patriotic as I am. Don't read in what isn't there. I'm addressing your logic, NOT your patriotism. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 11:21:13 AM EDT
[#25]
OK, all, for the record:
I disapprove of any and all foreign intelligence ops conducted against the US by whatever party. Always have, always will. I can't believe that it was necessary to say that. NOTHING I have ever said could POSSIBLY be construed otherwise. Next thing, you'll be asking for a "loyalty oath", OR MAYBE TO SEE MY PASSPORT. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 11:31:45 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: OK, all, for the record: I disapprove of any and all foreign intelligence ops conducted against the US by whatever party. Always have, always will. I can't believe that it was necessary to say that. NOTHING I have ever said could POSSIBLY be construed otherwise. . No one asked you for that because that's a given. Its EASY to make a generalized statement like that. In fact, round here, it'd be tought to NOT do that. I want to hear what I described above.To quote myself: You can simply produce here a scathing imdictment of Israel spying on us, blaming them for teh death of our operatives, SAME as I recall you did with China. Thus far you haven't. Name Israel specifically. Blame them for the death of our people. As you would have if it were China??? Rediculuous for me to request you to have to name names and assign specific blame?? SURE IT IS. But my experience is those with the brown noses for Israel CANNOT bring themselves to do it - to simply acknowledge the truth. Is it wrong for me to put you thru a litmus test?? Maybe. Just do it for MY sake. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 11:42:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: OK, all, for the record: I disapprove of any and all foreign intelligence ops conducted against the US by whatever party. Always have, always will. I can't believe that it was necessary to say that. NOTHING I have ever said could POSSIBLY be construed otherwise. . No one asked you for that because that's a given. Its EASY to make a generalized statement like that. In fact, round here, it'd be tought to NOT do that. I want to hear what I described above.To quote myself: You can simply produce here a scathing imdictment of Israel spying on us, blaming them for teh death of our operatives, SAME as I recall you did with China. Thus far you haven't. Name Israel specifically. Blame them for the death of our people. As you would have if it were China??? Rediculuous for me to request you to have to name names and assign specific blame?? SURE IT IS. But my experience is those with the brown noses for Israel CANNOT bring themselves to do it - to simply acknowledge the truth. Is it wrong for me to put you thru a litmus test?? Maybe. Just do it for MY sake. Oh, bullshit! My statement above applies to ALL countries and groups, NONE excluded. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 12:29:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: And the next time Eric the Hun comes up with images of Palestinians rejoicicing and "uluating" when hearing news of 911.... I think he show go read the article below! Evidently Palestinians weren't the only ones celebrating the 911 attack! [url]http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=75266∓contrassID=2[/url] DaMan In the reportage Ha'aretz said that they were filming the the smoke from WTC site... In Ramallah people were dancing of joy... a little difference... Dudeman... |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 12:32:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: OK, all, for the record: I disapprove of any and all foreign intelligence ops conducted against the US by whatever party. Always have, always will. I can't believe that it was necessary to say that. NOTHING I have ever said could POSSIBLY be construed otherwise. . No one asked you for that because that's a given. Its EASY to make a generalized statement like that. In fact, round here, it'd be tought to NOT do that. I want to hear what I described above.To quote myself: You can simply produce here a scathing imdictment of Israel spying on us, blaming them for teh death of our operatives, SAME as I recall you did with China. Thus far you haven't. Name Israel specifically. Blame them for the death of our people. As you would have if it were China??? Rediculuous for me to request you to have to name names and assign specific blame?? SURE IT IS. But my experience is those with the brown noses for Israel CANNOT bring themselves to do it - to simply acknowledge the truth. Is it wrong for me to put you thru a litmus test?? Maybe. Just do it for MY sake. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 12:46:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: In the reportage Ha'aretz said that they were filming the the smoke from WTC site... In Ramallah people were dancing of joy... a little difference..... Read the last paragragh, Paolo my friend! "The Foreign Ministry said in response that it had been informed by the consulate in New York that the FBI had arrested the five ([b]Israelis[/b]) for "puzzling behavior." They are said to have had been caught videotaping the disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as cries of [b]joy and mockery[/b]." DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 12:46:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: originally by garandman; I want to hear what I described above.To quote myself: You can simply produce here a scathing imdictment of Israel spying on us, blaming them for teh death of our operatives, SAME as I recall you did with China. Thus far you haven't. Name Israel specifically. Blame them for the death of our people. As you would have if it were China. Rediculous for me to request you to have to name names and assign specific blame?? SURE IT IS. But my experience is those with the brown noses for Israel CANNOT bring themselves to do it - to simply acknowledge the truth. Oh, bullshit! My statement above applies to ALL countries and groups, NONE excluded. Here - use my pooper scooper for that "bovine excrement" you just stepped in. [}:D] You are making my point for me. Just simply make the statement I described above. All you would be doing is acknowledging the truth. its liberating to do - really, it is. (As I recall) You did it with Red China. You did it with Robert Hansen. You did it with just about anyone else who spied on the US. BUT YOU CAN'T DO IT WITH ISRAEL. [:D] Its almost comical to watch you ignoring the massive pink elephant standing in your living room [:D] [:D] Its kinda like when your girlfrind says "I wanna hear you say the words 'I love you.'" I just wanna hear you say the words about Israel (and I don't mean another "I love you, Israel." [}:D]Already heard PLENTY of those. [:D] |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 12:52:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Rediculuous for me to request you to have to name names and assign specific blame?? SURE IT IS. But my experience is those with the brown noses for Israel CANNOT bring themselves to do it - to simply acknowledge the truth. Is it wrong for me to put you thru a litmus test?? Maybe. Just do it for MY sake. I dance to NOBODY'S tune. My answer was unequivocal, as was my re-statement. Troll somebody else. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 1:21:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I DANCE TO NOBODY'S tune. My answer was unequivocal, as was my re-statement. Troll somebody else. raf, me thinks "you protest too much"! And against the wrong people! Garandman is not "trolling" he's speaking his mind! I think your, "EVERYBODY SPIES AGAINST THE US.....WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL?" - type comments don't have a receptive audience with most patriotic Americans! DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 1:26:52 PM EDT
[#34]
You guys are in part correct. After additional thought on the matter I am certainly angry that a sensitive government contract was given to a foreign company. It is clear that the infiltrators and subverters here were probably not howver authorized agents of the Israeli government, but were in fact Paid for and supported by Organized Crime. That is my contention. They are therefore clandestine criminals. At that point, unlike some others, their nationality is really of no interest to me. Only that they were criminals who subverted their work to the detriment of the American people. That does in fact outrage me. I do not however subscribe to the Theory that this was some broad based act by the Israeli government. You are right also in that I have never really understood dual citizenship. Must be very confusing for the person. It is however my hope that we keep these kinds of projects in house in the future. Alot seems to have gone on in the last 8 years that will take alot of work to get fixed in this area.
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Posted: 3/8/2002 1:30:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: I DANCE TO NOBODY'S tune. My answer was unequivocal, as was my re-statement. Troll somebody else. raf, me thinks "you protest too much"! And against the wrong people! Garandman is not "trolling" he's speaking his mind! I think your, "EVERYBODY SPIES AGAINST THE US.....WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL?" - type comments don't have a receptive audience with most patriotic Americans! DaMan Never said that, DaMan. A much more apt paraphrasing would be "Everybody spies against the US....What's the surprise?" Don't try to put words in my mouth that I never said, bub. And I, like any other patriotic American DON'T like it. But unlike some perpetual naifs, I'm not astonished by it, either. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 1:34:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: You guys are in part correct. After additional thought on the matter I am certainly angry that a sensitive government contract was given to a foreign company. It is clear that the infiltrators and subverters here were probably not howver authorized agents of the Israeli government..... Oh no! [size=2]Another rogue operation of the[/size=2] [size=4]MOSSAD[/size=4]! [b]Don't you hate it when the Israeli government can't keep them under control[/b]?!!!! [:P] Another nice try, shotar! DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 1:46:43 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm pretty much ignorant in discussions like this but they are definately interesting and enlightening. I'm going to go with what 9divdoc said though.....
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Posted: 3/8/2002 2:03:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: In the reportage Ha'aretz said that they were filming the the smoke from WTC site... In Ramallah people were dancing of joy... a little difference..... Read the last paragragh, Paolo my friend! "The Foreign Ministry said in response that it had been informed by the consulate in New York that the FBI had arrested the five ([b]Israelis[/b]) for "puzzling behavior." They are said to have had been caught videotaping the disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as cries of [b]joy and mockery[/b]." DaMan I guess that anybody in USA speaks correctely Hebrew... tell me one thing... if I was on that roof yelling excited in ITALIAN can you intepret the difference between: "Oh merda... Ma è terribile quello che è successo laggiù!" and "Cazzo! Come sono sono contento che li abbiano buttati giu!" Can you? |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 2:08:19 PM EDT
[#39]
I think the anger in this thread should be aimed at the people in our government that were responsible for allowing this to happen.
I also don't believe that this is a mistake or oversight, that pill is to big to swallow. "Several U.S. privacy and security advocates contend the fault actually lies in the CALEA legislation passed by Congress that allowed the spy ring to operate so effectively. Lisa Dean, vice president for technology policy at Free Congress Foundation, delivered a scathing critique of the breach of the U.S. law enforcement wiretap system." "We are exercising our 'I told you so' rights on this," said Dean. That we were warned by credible sources and still chose to use the flawed programs and technologies with out even checking out what the other experts claimed were dangerous holes in the system, tells me that there is no NWO conspiracy, it's real and living in our most delicate and important government offices, and it's agenda is being pushed by UN/Commie critters in the House and Senate. FDR " nothing happens in politics by chance" |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 2:20:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: "The Foreign Ministry said in response that it had been informed by the consulate in New York that the FBI had arrested the five ([b]Israelis[/b]) for "puzzling behavior." They are said to have had been caught videotaping the disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as cries of [b]joy and mockery[/b]." DaMan I guess that anybody in USA speaks correctely Hebrew... tell me one thing... if I was on that roof yelling excited in ITALIAN can you intepret the difference between: "Oh merda... Ma è terribile quello che è successo laggiù!" and "Cazzo! Come sono sono contento che li abbiano buttati giu!" Can you? Again ..... a stretch! I can tell by the body language, facial expressions, and gestures between grief and joy! No matter the language! Can't YOU? DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 2:23:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: "The Foreign Ministry said in response that it had been informed by the consulate in New York that the FBI had arrested the five ([b]Israelis[/b]) for "puzzling behavior." They are said to have had been caught videotaping the disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as cries of [b]joy and mockery[/b]." DaMan I guess that anybody in USA speaks correctely Hebrew... tell me one thing... if I was on that roof yelling excited in ITALIAN can you intepret the difference between: "Oh merda... Ma è terribile quello che è successo laggiù!" and "Cazzo! Come sono sono contento che li abbiano buttati giu!" Can you? ________________________________________________ Again ..... a stretch, Paolo! I can tell by the body language, facial expressions, and gestures between grief and joy! No matter the language! Can't YOU? DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 2:31:45 PM EDT
[#42]
But investigators within the DEA, INS and FBI have all told Fox News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying through Comverse is considered career suicide. This statement is extremely troublesome. A handful of former U.S. law enforcement officials involved in awarding Comverse government contracts over the years now work for the company. Numerous sources say some of those individuals were asked to leave government service under what knowledgeable sources call "troublesome circumstances" that remain under administrative review within the Justice Department. This is par for the course with federal employees involved in procurement. One must admit Israel certainly has quite a lot of influence in this country. In my mind, this is not a good thing. |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 5:48:30 PM EDT
[#43]
This spiked series from FOX explains it the best!
[url]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/blackmail.html[/url] DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:03:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Post from DreckMan -
This spiked series from FOX explains it the best! DreckMan! You really think that 'whatreallyhappened.com' is the kind of website that anyone with more than an ounce of good sense should ever depend on for getting [u]any[/u] good and reliable information? On [u]any[/u] subject? [url]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/[/url] Hmmm, let's see some interesting articles, letters, and stories posted on that website: 'America Has Always Been A Terrorist State' [url]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reader2.html[/url] The website's 'Quote of the Day': "The right wing benefited so much from September 11 that, if I were still a conspiratorialist, I would believe they'd done it." --Norman Mailer 'Al Qaeda Says US Concealing True Number of Casualties in War' [url]http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=06032002-040453-7519r[/url] DreckMan, you present us with some of the most idiotic left-wing, anti-US, pro-terrorist websites imaginable! Surely you don't believe that [i][b]'dreck'[/b][/i], now do you? Of course, you do![:D] They speak your language. They even got your drool down pat! Eric The(GreatlyAmused)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:20:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Eric, reductio ad absurdum!
I didn't post or recommend any of those articles you tried to credit to me! I said the spiked FOX series found at the site below was the best source on the subject! [url]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/blackmail.html[/url] Not any of the articles [b]YOU[/b] quoted! Nice try to slime me again! Got any new names to call me when you get frustrated? [:P] DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:42:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Post from DreckMan -
Eric, reductio ad absurdum! And just how have you refuted anything! Simply saying the phrase doesn't mean a friggin thing! [b]Show your work![/b] I didn't post or recommend any of those articles you tried to credit to me! Oh but you did, mein kleine Schvantz! You even listed the website as the host for the Fox News story you said was spiked! You can't take back your recommendation of the source now! Once you've been caught with such dreadful websites marked as your 'favorites! Just looking down the list of articles, letters, and stories proved to be a vurtual treasure trove of DreckMan positions on just about every conceivable pinhead fantasy that a fevered little brain could imagine! But just let the others look for themselves - they can draw their own conclusions! I said the spiked FOX series found at the site below was the best source on the subject! But [b]Fox News[/b] doesn't even stand behind the story, Dreckman, they 'spiked' it! Remember? Not any of the articles YOU quoted! Nice try to slime me again! Far be it from me to slime you! It's your BS sources that are slime. Well, [u]maybe[/u] a lot more than that, eh, Dreckman? Got any new names to call me when you get frustrated? Nope, I'll stick with DreckMan for the time being, since it seems to capture all of the essence of your posts! DaPendsMan, DaMascusMan, and the others will be resurrected whenever they seem appropriate! You just give me soooo much material, how can I help but rag you? [:D] Eric The(Rag,Rag,Rag)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 8:16:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: But [b]Fox News[/b] doesn't even stand behind the story, Dreckman, they 'spiked' it! Remember? Well, [u]maybe[/u] a lot more than that, eh, Dreckman? Got any new names to call me when you get frustrated? Nope, I'll stick with DreckMan for the time being, since it seems to capture all of the essence of your posts! DaPendsMan, DaMascusMan, and the others will be resurrected whenever they seem appropriate! You just give me soooo much material, how can I help but rag you? [:D] Eric The(Rag,Rag,Rag)Hun Eric, sorry the spiked FOX Series pisses you off so much that you have to go into a childish rant complete with name calling! [url]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/blackmail.html[/url] You really hate that [b]don't[/b] you? [:P] Tough luck! DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 8:27:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Post from DreckMan -
Eric, sorry the spiked FOX Series pisses you off so much that you have to go into a childish rant complete with name calling! I don't call you names because I'm pissed off! I call you names because I like to! [url]www.whatreallyhappened.com/blackmail.html[/url] You really hate that don't you? Nonsense, I love that they spiked it! It was a non-story from the get-go and Fox News had the good sense to drop it! Yippee! Tough luck! Yeah, it's so bad I could ululate![:D] Except, you'd have to show me how! That's not my language, or my culture! But do you [u]really[/u] like all those other pinheaded articles, letters, and stories on that 'WhatReally(Didn't)Happen.com'? Maybe it's [u]your[/u] patriotism that needs to be reviewed, DreckMan? Friends don't let friends read such [b]dreck![/b] And here you are directing your friends to that site! Have you no shame?[:D] Of course not! You prove it all the time! Shall I post some more pinhead liberal/socialist crapola from that site? Eric The(Maybe?)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 8:36:29 PM EDT
[#49]
[url]www.whatreallyhappened.com/blackmail.html[/url]
Thanks! Nice rant, Eric! [:P] DaMan |
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Posted: 3/8/2002 8:55:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Post from DreckMan -
Thanks! Nice rant, Eric! Coming from you, rantmaster, I suppose that's high praise indeed! Where are those [u]really[/u] silly articles, letters, and stories from WhatReallyHappened.com? I just want you to talk about them! BTW you don't see anything wrong with that website? Surely you found something you can disagree with on factual grounds? Nope? Eric The(HeHe!IDidn'tThinkYouWould!)Hun[>]:)] |
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