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Posted: 6/16/2007 4:17:02 PM EST
They simply cannot afford to have Hamas controlling Gaza.

HH
-------------------------------------

Israel plans attack on Gaza

Uzi Mahnaimi
timesonline.co.uk

ISRAEL’s new defence minister Ehud Barak is planning an attack on Gaza within weeks to crush the Hamas militants who have seized power there.

According to senior Israeli military sources, the plan calls for 20,000 troops to destroy much of Hamas’s military capability in days.

The raid would be triggered by Hamas rocket attacks against Israel or a resumption of suicide bombings.

Barak, who is expected to become defence minister tomorrow, has already demanded detailed plans to deploy two armoured divisions and an infantry division, accompanied by assault drones and F-16 jets, against Hamas.

The Israeli forces would expect to be confronted by about 12,000 Hamas fighters with arms confiscated from the Fatah faction that they defeated in last week’s three-day civil war in Gaza.

Details of the plan emerged as Fatah forces in the West Bank stormed Hamas-run buildings, including the parliament in Ramallah, where they tried to seize the deputy speaker.

Israeli officials believe their forces would face even tougher resistance in Gaza than they encountered during last summer’s war against Hezbollah in south Lebanon.

A source close to Barak said that Israel could not tolerate an aggressive “Hamastan” on its border and an attack seemed unavoidable.

“The question is not if but how and when,” he said.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:19:31 PM EST
A source close to Barak said that Israel could not tolerate an aggressive “Hamastan” on its border and an attack seemed unavoidable.


How long has that been going on now ?
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:21:16 PM EST
Pfffft.

Even when they are "at peace," 90% of ME countries are fighting.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:22:56 PM EST
Could be the beginning of a long, ferocious war in the ME. Let's hope it doesn't devolve into WWIII.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:23:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ninian:
A source close to Barak said that Israel could not tolerate an aggressive “Hamastan” on its border and an attack seemed unavoidable.


How long has that been going on now ?


This is a new problem. Your sworn enemy who refuses to recognize your right to exist now controls Gaza with no counter-balance whatsoever.

It'd be like AQ controlling on of our states....simply unacceptable.

HH
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:28:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:29:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By joelad:
Could be the beginning of a long, ferocious war in the ME. Let's hope it doesn't devolve into WWIII.


Fortunately, there is ZERO chance of anyone with global-power-projection capability becoming involved in this....

However, from a strategic point of view, the more 'fronts' Al Queda has to fight on, against SEPARATE national armies, the better for us...

Iraq
Lebanon
Gazastan (or whatever)
Afghanistan
The PI
And so on...

Stretch AQ & Iran out as far as possible, making it (A) harder for Iran to defend itself, and (B) near impossible for them to carry out global terrorism, when they're tied up at home...
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:30:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By joelad:
Could be the beginning of a long, ferocious war in the ME. Let's hope it doesn't devolve into WWIII.


That war started since the introduction of Israel in 1948
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:31:59 PM EST
Short of ethnic cleansing, I don't see how the Israelis can really win.

If the Israelis go into Gaza, then the occupation becomes a war of attrition. The will of the Israelis will expire long before that of the Palestinians.

Link Posted: 6/16/2007 4:36:38 PM EST
20K IDF's verses 12K Hamas fighters...and the goal is to destroy most of Hamas' army.

FOX News will be interesting to watch in the coming weeks.

HH
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:21:04 PM EST
Clinton's peace for land deal sure was a big success...

Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:26:46 PM EST
Who's supplying the weapons and money for this "civil war"?
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:27:33 PM EST
drop a few daisy cutter bombs and end it quick
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:29:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By CLIP67:
Clinton's peace for land deal sure was a big success...



To the hippies, it was a great success until Israel fucked it all up.

To any rational human being, Clinton's land-for-nothing deal was a miscalculation. You can't make peace with death cultists.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:30:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Who's supplying the weapons and money for this "civil war"?


Hamas has a head start:


...12,000 Hamas fighters with arms confiscated from the Fatah faction that they defeated in last week’s three-day civil war in Gaza.


Not sure how much, but better than nothing.

HH
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:30:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:32:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2007 5:41:50 PM EST by HoustonHusker]

Originally Posted By BrandonP:

Originally Posted By CLIP67:
Clinton's peace for land deal sure was a big success...



To the hippies, it was a great success until Israel fucked it all up.

To any rational human being, Clinton's land-for-nothing deal was a miscalculation. You can't make peace with death cultists.


Edited for my stupidity.

HH

Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:36:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:

Originally Posted By BrandonP:

Originally Posted By CLIP67:
Clinton's peace for land deal sure was a big success...



To the hippies, it was a great success until Israel fucked it all up.

To any rational human being, Clinton's land-for-nothing deal was a miscalculation. You can't make peace with death cultists.


How do you figure Israel screwed up? Barak was willing to give the store away to Arafat and ARAFAT REFUSED.

HH



Brandon is saying that hippies will blame Israel.. regardless of the facts.

Ie; "It has to be those evil jews... they've always started it, they violate people's rights!!!"
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:38:01 PM EST
Well, looks like they are ready for some more hot Summer action over there. Wonder if any of Syria's saber rattling will materialize into something else (with Iran's urging of course) if the SHTF in Gaza?
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:40:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:

Originally Posted By BrandonP:

Originally Posted By CLIP67:
Clinton's peace for land deal sure was a big success...



To the hippies, it was a great success until Israel fucked it all up.

To any rational human being, Clinton's land-for-nothing deal was a miscalculation. You can't make peace with death cultists.


How do you figure Israel screwed up? Barak was willing to give the store away to Arafat and ARAFAT REFUSED.

HH



Brandon is saying that hippies will blame Israel.. regardless of the facts.

Ie; "It has to be those evil jews... they've always started it, they violate people's rights!!!"


Thanks VooDoo. My apologies to totally screwing up the meaning of Brandon's post.

Sorry Brandon!

HH
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:44:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Well, looks like they are ready for some more hot Summer action over there. Wonder if any of Syria's saber rattling will materialize into something else (with Iran's urging of course) if the SHTF in Gaza?


I do know that the IDF has been hesitant in the past few weeks to devote much of anything to the problem so they wouldn't get blindsided by Hez or Syria. Now, it appears the problem is bigger than the risk they could've taken to help Fatah out in Gaza.

Rooting out Hamas ain't gonna be fun.

HH

Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:44:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Who's supplying the weapons and money for this "civil war"?


Who's always behind the proxy wars in the World? The United States and the Russian's!We back the pro west Fattah..They back anti-west Hamas..Just like old times,Nothing's changed in the least.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 5:53:40 PM EST


I choose Israel each and every time.

I don't care what they do...or how they do it.

Let's getther done..............
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 6:45:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:
Short of ethnic cleansing, I don't see how the Israelis can really win.

If the Israelis go into Gaza, then the occupation becomes a war of attrition. The will of the Israelis will expire long before that of the Palestinians.



The Izzys kill enough Hamas that Fatah can re-establish control...

Link Posted: 6/16/2007 6:50:27 PM EST
Glad to hear this, Hamas will never learn, Isreal is going to kickome ass if i lived in gaza id be packing my shit
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 6:58:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Who's supplying the weapons and money for this "civil war"?


Every islamic country gives money, I'd bet on it.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 7:01:15 PM EST
It's too bad the technology doesn't exist for Israel to slice Gaza off and let it slide into the Mediterranean. I wish we could do it here for Commifornia too!

Link Posted: 6/16/2007 7:20:25 PM EST
This may be the second distraction the Syrians need to make a play at the Golan Heights.


Lebanon's army is busy fighting Abu-Akbars in the refugee camps, and if the Israelis have to commit 3 divisions to Gaza......well, the opportunity for foolishness is there.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 7:23:45 PM EST
.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 7:25:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By CletusRoundbelly:
This may be the second distraction the Syrians need to make a play at the Golan Heights.


Lebanon's army is busy fighting Abu-Akbars in the refugee camps, and if the Israelis have to commit 3 divisions to Gaza......well, the opportunity for foolishness is there.


Very interesting point. I'm sure Israel sees this, too, and we'll find out soon enough if someone else gets froggy.

Hamas is probably going to get their butts kicked badly...as long as Hez and Syria stay away.

HH
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 7:27:29 PM EST
i think this is all irans evil plan. get israel stuck in another crappy summer war, and then let hijinks ensue.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 7:30:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By njJoniGuy:
It's too bad the technology doesn't exist for Israel to slice Gaza off and let it slide into the Mediterranean. I wish we could do it here for Commifornia too!



STFU you ignorant pompous..Let me guess your bundling up your opinion of the biggest state in the union over a few SoCal cities? Nice way to Dragnet 40million people jackass..But Jersey's gotta be the place to be right?Real scenic I bet..and smells just fucking dandy!
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 7:49:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:

Originally Posted By CletusRoundbelly:
This may be the second distraction the Syrians need to make a play at the Golan Heights.


Lebanon's army is busy fighting Abu-Akbars in the refugee camps, and if the Israelis have to commit 3 divisions to Gaza......well, the opportunity for foolishness is there.


Very interesting point. I'm sure Israel sees this, too, and we'll find out soon enough if someone else gets froggy.

Hamas is probably going to get their butts kicked badly...as long as Hez and Syria stay away.

HH


What are the odds more rockets start to sail toward Israel out of Lebanon if and when the fireworks begin in Gaza? I know the situation is not quite the same as it was last Summer, as the Lebanese are actively fighting jihadis and there's supposedly a security force there between Israel and Lebanon. But I figure the bad guys still have enough control in southern Lebanon (as well as rockets) and the security force too ineffective (totally ineffective) that it wouldn't at all be difficult for them to shower Israel with more barrages of rockets.

If that were to happen, that's where things really start to get hairy. I am not sure Syria would attempt any moves if it was just Gaza in play. But if Israel gets into a situation where they are fighting in Gaza and have action in Lebanon too....then they might just get the nerve to start a 3rd front.

I guess we'll see how it all plays out as the year goes on. But I guess we may soon see just what Syria's intentions are....whether they are all mouth or whether they're prepared to attack into the Golan Heights as they've been suggesting. If for some reason Israel again finds itself dealing with two fronts at once (Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon), then we can say Syria is totally full of shit if they don't try something. That would be about as good as it could get for Syria as far as opening goes.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 7:55:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By KeMiCaLs:

Originally Posted By njJoniGuy:
It's too bad the technology doesn't exist for Israel to slice Gaza off and let it slide into the Mediterranean. I wish we could do it here for Commifornia too!



STFU you ignorant pompous..Let me guess your bundling up your opinion of the biggest state in the union over a few SoCal cities? Nice way to Dragnet 40million people jackass..But Jersey's gotta be the place to be right?Real scenic I bet..and smells just fucking dandy!


You ladies going to have a fucking n00b fight now?

The topic is 'Israel: Kicking the Ass of Hamas for Fun and Profit.'

Not 'Teeny Bopper Bitchfight 15.'
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 3:48:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 3:49:10 AM EST by jayd]
height=8
Originally Posted By mattimeo:
You ladies going to have a fucking n00b fight now?
The topic is 'Israel: Kicking the Ass of Hamas for Fun and Profit.'
Not 'Teeny Bopper Bitchfight 15.'


http://jovan.ru/pics2/owned.jpg
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 3:54:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 4:08:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:

Originally Posted By BrandonP:

Originally Posted By CLIP67:
Clinton's peace for land deal sure was a big success...



To the hippies, it was a great success until Israel fucked it all up.

To any rational human being, Clinton's land-for-nothing deal was a miscalculation. You can't make peace with death cultists.


How do you figure Israel screwed up? Barak was willing to give the store away to Arafat and ARAFAT REFUSED.

HH



Brandon is saying that hippies will blame Israel.. regardless of the facts.

Ie; "It has to be those evil jews... they've always started it, they violate people's rights!!!"


Thanks VooDoo. My apologies to totally screwing up the meaning of Brandon's post.

Sorry Brandon!

HH


No harm no foul mate.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 4:16:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Who's supplying the weapons and money for this "civil war"?


Every islamic country gives money, I'd bet on it.

+ the US. We provided weapons and training to Fatah security forces for what good it did them.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:06:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:

Originally Posted By CletusRoundbelly:
This may be the second distraction the Syrians need to make a play at the Golan Heights.


Lebanon's army is busy fighting Abu-Akbars in the refugee camps, and if the Israelis have to commit 3 divisions to Gaza......well, the opportunity for foolishness is there.


Very interesting point. I'm sure Israel sees this, too, and we'll find out soon enough if someone else gets froggy.

Hamas is probably going to get their butts kicked badly...as long as Hez and Syria stay away.

HH


What are the odds more rockets start to sail toward Israel out of Lebanon if and when the fireworks begin in Gaza? I know the situation is not quite the same as it was last Summer, as the Lebanese are actively fighting jihadis and there's supposedly a security force there between Israel and Lebanon. But I figure the bad guys still have enough control in southern Lebanon (as well as rockets) and the security force too ineffective (totally ineffective) that it wouldn't at all be difficult for them to shower Israel with more barrages of rockets.

If that were to happen, that's where things really start to get hairy. I am not sure Syria would attempt any moves if it was just Gaza in play. But if Israel gets into a situation where they are fighting in Gaza and have action in Lebanon too....then they might just get the nerve to start a 3rd front.

I guess we'll see how it all plays out as the year goes on. But I guess we may soon see just what Syria's intentions are....whether they are all mouth or whether they're prepared to attack into the Golan Heights as they've been suggesting. If for some reason Israel again finds itself dealing with two fronts at once (Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon), then we can say Syria is totally full of shit if they don't try something. That would be about as good as it could get for Syria as far as opening goes.


That scenario would put Israel in a horrible situation, and it very well could happen, too. I wonder if they'd move a large part of their forces to the northern borders just to let the enemy know they're ready for anything.

HH
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:15:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:

Originally Posted By CletusRoundbelly:
This may be the second distraction the Syrians need to make a play at the Golan Heights.


Lebanon's army is busy fighting Abu-Akbars in the refugee camps, and if the Israelis have to commit 3 divisions to Gaza......well, the opportunity for foolishness is there.


Very interesting point. I'm sure Israel sees this, too, and we'll find out soon enough if someone else gets froggy.

Hamas is probably going to get their butts kicked badly...as long as Hez and Syria stay away.

HH


What are the odds more rockets start to sail toward Israel out of Lebanon if and when the fireworks begin in Gaza? I know the situation is not quite the same as it was last Summer, as the Lebanese are actively fighting jihadis and there's supposedly a security force there between Israel and Lebanon. But I figure the bad guys still have enough control in southern Lebanon (as well as rockets) and the security force too ineffective (totally ineffective) that it wouldn't at all be difficult for them to shower Israel with more barrages of rockets.

If that were to happen, that's where things really start to get hairy. I am not sure Syria would attempt any moves if it was just Gaza in play. But if Israel gets into a situation where they are fighting in Gaza and have action in Lebanon too....then they might just get the nerve to start a 3rd front.

I guess we'll see how it all plays out as the year goes on. But I guess we may soon see just what Syria's intentions are....whether they are all mouth or whether they're prepared to attack into the Golan Heights as they've been suggesting. If for some reason Israel again finds itself dealing with two fronts at once (Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon), then we can say Syria is totally full of shit if they don't try something. That would be about as good as it could get for Syria as far as opening goes.


CH, check this out....very curious timing.

HH
---------------------------------------

Up to 4 Katyusha rockets fired at northern Israel; none hurt
By YAAKOV KATZ, JPOST.COM STAFF AND AP


Four Katyusha rockets struck the town of Kiryat Shmona in northern Israel Sunday afternoon, causing damage but no injuries.

Two or three rockets landed in Kiryat Shmona while one hit Lebanese territory.

In response, one government official who was traveling with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in New York said that Israel would show restraint in its response to a rocket attack.

"This is an attempt to provoke Israel into a response," the official said. "Israel will not succumb to this provocation but will monitor the situation carefully." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation.

The identity of the attackers has not been confirmed, and the estimates within the IDF was that the rockets were fired not by Hizbullah but by a Palestinian splinter group, possibly one that is affiliated with Hamas, operating from Lebanese soil.

Hizbullah had no connection at all to the Katyusha attack, the guerilla organization announced Sunday evening.

The Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) reported that the rockets were launched by a Palestinian group, while Lebanese television said that the rockets were fired from the Lebanese village of Taibeh.

The privately owned Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation LBC channel said the village of Taibeh overlooks Kiryat Shmona.

UNIFIL and LAF troops set up checkpoints throughout southern Lebanon in an attempt to capture the perpetarators of the attack, Channel 2 reported.

A short while later, the Lebanese army discovered an additional rocket that was set to be launched on Israel and prevented it from being fired, Lebanon's military said in a statement.

The army blamed the attack on "unknown elements," the statement said.

Immediately following the attack, the MDA chief in the area raised the level of alert throughout northern Israel to its highest level. MDA teams treated one woman who suffered from shock.

Defense Minister Amir Peretz updated Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, currently in New York, on the attack and convened security officials for a special meeting, scheduled to take place at 7:00 p.m., to discuss the developments in the North as well as the South.

One Kiryat Shmona resident who witnessed the Katyusha strike described what she saw in an interview with Channel 2.

"I heard a huge boom, and saw a giant mushroom cloud," she said. "I can't believe we are going back to the same situation that we had one year ago."

The mayor of the town, Haim Barbivai, echoed her sentiment, calling for a tough response from both the Israeli and Lebanese governments.

"Heaven help us if we have another summer like the last one. That would be a tragedy," he told Channel 2.

In late 2005, several Katyusha rockets were fired into Israel, but later were found to have been launched not by Hizbullah but by a Palestinian group affiliated with al-Qaida.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:23:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By joelad:
Could be the beginning of a long, ferocious war in the ME. Let's hope it doesn't devolve into WWIII.


Might as well get it on now, I'd rather it happen while I'm still relatively young enough to fend for myself through all of it, or head for the mountains if the domestic shtf ever happens because of it all, ect.. I don't want to be older and have creaky knees and a soar back and feel helpless.
I vote we just get it on now.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:26:58 AM EST
Good interview with Bibi...he pulls no punches and he'd be the enemies worst nightmare IMO.

HH

=====================

ynetnews.com

Netanyahu: I warned of Hamastan


Opposition leader says PA crisis result of weak Israeli policies, calls on government to isolate Gaza. Asked about Barak as defense minister, he says, 'I'll be sleeping much better when I know the government's policy has changed'

Amnon Mernada Published: 06.17.07, 07:49 / Israel News

"I warned this would happen. Before the last elections and my warnings were ignored. I said then that Hamastan would rise into existence and it has done just that," opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu told Ynet on Sunday as he follows the situation in the Palestinian Authority and particularly in Gaza.



Netanyahu said he saw a direct link between Israel's disengagement from Gaza in 2005 and the current situation there.

Olmert:

'Israel can talk to a PA without Hamas' / Ronny Sofer

En route to Washington PM addresses crisis in Palestinian Authority: 'We can look at it as a setback but there is a possibility that this is a new opportunity'. New PA situation expected to top agenda in talks with Bush
Full story





"What we're seeing in Gaza is the inevitable result of our weak, defeatist policies and withdrawal. Every piece of land we evacuate is seized by radical Islam backed by Iran and rockets are launched from there against us," he noted.



"Just like there was every intention to move forward with a unilateral disengagement from Judea and Samaria, from areas that control Jerusalem and the Tel Aviv metropolitan area. Fortunately, that plan is currently off the agenda. Unilateral withdrawal is not the road to peace and security. What I said two years ago is now clear to everyone."



Was there a way to prevent the current situation?



"Of course. Why isn't there a Hamastan in Judea and Samaria? Because the IDF is there. Of course, we should aspire to reach diplomatic agreements with the Palestinians, but only if there is a real partner for peace and only if there are security arrangements. Both did not exist during the disengagement, which in fact paved the way for Hamas' rise to power and for the political and then military takeover of the Gaza Strip.



"The unilateral withdrawal from Lebanon created 'Hizbullahstan' – the first Iranian base in northern Israel, and now we got 'Hamastan' – the second Iranian base in southern Israel."



Netanyahu believes that Israel's security problems are not the army's problems.




"This is a result of an erroneous policy of Israel's leaders, or actually of the prime ministers since the withdrawal from Lebanon and onward," hinting at former Prime Minister Ehud Barak who ordered the IDF to withdraw from Gaza and is now about to be appointed defense minister.



Is there a way to solve what is happening in Gaza today? If you were prime minister, what would you do?




"First of all, I would besiege Gaza, strengthen the military siege on Gaza and the economic and diplomatic isolation of the Hamas regime. Over time, Israel will not be able to allow the existence and strengthening of an Iranian base near Be'er Sheva and Tel Aviv.



"We can and it is possible to recruit neighboring countries like Egypt and Jordan, with the help of the United States, in order to tighten the siege on Hamas and undermine the stability of its regime. The goal should eventually lead to the destruction of the Hamas rule and to its replacement with moderate forces."




Netanyahu added that he would not send IDF ground forces to the Strip just yet. "At the moment I would wait."




According to the opposition leader, if the "evil" does not stop, this would eventually lead to Hamas arming itself with missiles which will be able to reach "far beyond Ashkelon and deep into Israel."




As for the Philadelphi route, he said, "I believe it would also have to be closed. The best thing would of course be if Egypt would take part in this mission, which is also important for them. We have to find the appropriate solution. At the moment I would suggest strengthening the forces around and preparing for different possibilities rather than acting with haste."



How should Israel treat Fatah?




"I believe there are more moderate elements in the Palestinian society, and they are definitely represented by Abu Mazen (Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas). The problem is that they are weak. Not in terms of weapons or financial means. They are weak in terms of using their national willpower in order to fight for their future, in the face of the radicals who are threatening both them and us.




"We have to hope that they become stronger, and must also assume that they won't, and do all it takes in order to stabilize and prevent a situation like what happened in Judea and Samaria. This can be done by leaving the IDF there and not removing it, and secondly, by working to recruit Jordan to help us stabilize the Palestinian territories west of Jordan in terms of security."



Do you sleep better with Ehud Barak as defense minister?




"I will sleep much quietly when I'll know the policy has changed, and to this moment it is not clear to me what the government's policy is. That is why we are calling for new elections, in which the people would be able to choose between our way, which has proven to be responsible and sane, which anticipated this situation, and is related to reality.





"The disengagement policy was in fact a disengagement from reality. A sort of policy ignoring the danger, a sort of 'after me the deluge,' and the deluge is indeed here."



Do you feel like someone who can say 'I told you so'?




"I regret the fact that each of my warnings came true. I would rather have a different reality. We are in need of a different, sober leadership, which does not zigzag between weakness and adventurousness, which can correctly read the development of things. This is what we were lacking then, and unfortunately I believe that we also lacking it today."
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:28:43 AM EST
+1 to the guys who said that the US and Russia is the ones supplying weapons to today's wars.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:29:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 8:31:33 AM EST by T2]
For me an EASY subject !!

Hamas kills my military in Lebanon.

Israel kills my military on the USS Liberty, sells US technology to China and spies on the United states.


Hamas

vs.

Israel



I CANNOT LOSE !!!!


YEAH (both teams) FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT !!!



T
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:35:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:

Originally Posted By joelad:
Could be the beginning of a long, ferocious war in the ME. Let's hope it doesn't devolve into WWIII.


Might as well get it on now, I'd rather it happen while I'm still relatively young enough to fend for myself through all of it, or head for the mountains if the domestic shtf ever happens because of it all, ect.. I don't want to be older and have creaky knees and a soar back and feel helpless.
I vote we just get it on now.



Agreed. If there be war, let it be now - in my time, so that my child may have peace.



-K
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:38:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 8:40:01 AM EST by Submariner]

Originally Posted By T2:
For me an EASY subject !!

Hamas kills my military in Lebanon.

Israel kills my military on the USS Liberty, sells US technology to China and spies on the United states.

Hamas

vs.

Israel

I CANNOT LOSE !!!!

YEAH (both teams) FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT !!!

T


But can we please stop sending them money and technology in the meantime?

Added: Couldn't the Izzies just cut the power and water and then let the sewers back up?
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:44:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hemi-Cuda:

Originally Posted By joelad:
Could be the beginning of a long, ferocious war in the ME. Let's hope it doesn't devolve into WWIII.


That war started since the introduction of Israel in 1948




That war started since the introduction of Israel in 1948


We might go back to Rothschild and 1929 but that would requite thought I'm not willing to invest.

---------------------------------------------------------------

1948........

was that the year all those Palestinians got on those leaky freighters and went to Europe to kill the remaining Jews ??

So that was the beginning of the Middle East conflict.


T


(Jeeesh........someone got on some leaky freighters and went somewhere to begin killing someone. I mean there WAS an 'Exodus'..............right ?? I'm often confused when I read history here.)
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:50:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 8:51:18 AM EST by T2]

Originally Posted By Submariner:

Originally Posted By T2:
For me an EASY subject !!

Hamas kills my military in Lebanon.

Israel kills my military on the USS Liberty, sells US technology to China and spies on the United states.

Hamas

vs.

Israel

I CANNOT LOSE !!!!

YEAH (both teams) FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT !!!

T


But can we please stop sending them money and technology in the meantime?

Added: Couldn't the Izzies just cut the power and water and then let the sewers back up?


A GOOD IDEA !! Israel cuts the power and water lets the sewers back-up AND continues to charge for those services !!!

Israel have already taken million upon million of Palestinian tax money so this little deal could be icing on an already sizable Israeli cake.


T
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:55:22 AM EST
Israel has no option but to crush Hamas and the new Hamas-Stan.

To accept the creation of a fundamentalist Islamic State on it's borders would be to cut it's own throat.

Hamsa-Stan is a zero tolerance situation for Israel.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:58:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Submariner:


But can we please stop sending them money and technology in the meantime?



Subs,

this is another area of confusion for me.

Several post here that Israel wants to stop receiving ANY money from the US taxpayer.

With that thought in mind, I am, again, confused as to why Israel continues to receive monies from the US taxpayer. Maybe we threaten Israel and make them take the money ????


T
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 9:01:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
Israel has no option but to crush Hamas and the new Hamas-Stan.

To accept the creation of a fundamentalist Islamic State on it's borders would be to cut it's own throat.

Hamsa-Stan is a zero tolerance situation for Israel.


...and that clearly is the bottom line. In one of the British papers, Barak says he wants to 'crush' Hamas in Gaza, and I believe him.

HH
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