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Posted: 10/31/2006 5:54:30 PM EDT
Israel may follow Lebanese example and flout UN 1701

tovah lazaroff and hilary leila krieger,
THE JERUSALEM POST
Oct. 31, 2006

www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1161811246951&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

Israel warned on Tuesday that it might rethink its adherence to the cease-fire resolution that ended Lebanon war this summer, following a United Nations report that Syria was smuggling arms to Hizbullah in Lebanon.

It's the first time since the war that the UN had made such a clear statement with regard to the failure to disarm Hizbullah.

The report flies in the face of the commitment Syrian President Bashar Assad made to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan that Damascus would comply with the arms embargo against Hizbullah and would support UN Security Council Resolution 1701, which calls for it to be disarmed.

"If Lebanon cannot implement its side of the resolution, obviously Israel would be entitled to rethink the implementation of our commitments," Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday.

He said the arms embargo was a critical element of Resolution 1701 and that the smuggling constituted a "core violation."

Prime Minister's Office spokeswoman Miri Eisin said: "Until the Syrian-Lebanese border issue is resolved, we will continue to reserve our right to self defense."

While Israel continues to insist it is fulfilling all its obligations under the cease-fire and Resolution 1701, France and the European Union are charging Israel with breaching them by continuing to conduct surveillance flights over Lebanon.

"We consider that these overflights constitute a violation of Lebanese sovereignty," a spokesman for the French Foreign Ministry said.

On Tuesday, IAF planes flew low over Hizbullah strongholds in south Beirut in the heaviest show of air power over Lebanon since August 14.

Regev said the flights were "a response to the failure of the Lebanese side to implement its core commitments. When there are illicit arms transfers and no mechanism to [impede] them, we have cause to monitor such transfers."

The Security Council on Monday called both to disband militia groups and to respect Lebanon's sovereignty and integrity, but it did not take Israel to task for the overflights. The UN has, however, asked Israel to stop the flights in the past.

The Security Council did note with regret that non-Lebanese militias in that country had not been disbanded or disarmed.

Speaking to the press after the meeting, the UN's envoy for Syria and Lebanon, Terje Roed-Larsen, reported that Syria was smuggling weapons into Lebanon.

Representatives of the Lebanese government "have stated publicly and also in conversations with us that there have been arms coming across the border into Lebanon," said Larsen.

"The consistent position of the government of Syria has been that, 'Yes, there might be arms smuggling over the border, but this is arms smuggling and the border is porous and very difficult to control,'" he said.

The UN had not received any information on quantities and types of weapons or where they came from, however, and it could not confirm the Lebanese government reports because UN troops had not been asked by the Lebanese army to monitor the border, he said.

Roed-Larsen called the situation in Lebanon "worrisome."

"The political rhetoric shows that there are very high tensions, and I think we have to look at the situation in Lebanon with all caution. And there are reasons for being worried about where this is heading," he said.

Defense Minister Amir Peretz said Tuesday night that Israel was witnessing attempts by Syria, Iran and Hizbullah to undermine the stability of the Lebanese government.

At the Security Council on Monday US Ambassador to the UN John R. Bolton lashed out at both Syria and Iran for destabilizing Lebanon.

"We call on Syria and Iran to abide by their obligations to respect Lebanon's sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity and political independence. Syria's obligations in this regard are particularly important as it is the one country other than Israel that borders Lebanon," said Bolton.

Regev called on the international community to block the illicit arms transfers. He said the UN resolutions regarding Lebanon were very specific about the need to prevent the flow of arms to Hizbullah.

"Israel pulled out of Lebanon, we pulled out our ground forces, and in doing so we implemented our core resolutions under 1701," he said. "There's a serious question about the Lebanese side's core commitments."

Peretz also spoke on Tuesday of the failure to disarm Hizbullah and the dangers of Iran and Syria, and he said an important split was developing between those radical Muslim countries and more moderate ones such as Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

He said the Saudi peace plan adopted by the Arab league in 2002 that calls for Israel to withdraw to the Green Line could be a basis for negotiations with such moderate Arab countries and the Palestinians. He also said that such negotiations could help shore up Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in his power struggle against Hamas.

AP contributed to this report.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:58:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Sorry, double standard in effect - they won't be allowed to
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:01:38 PM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
Sorry, double standard in effect - they won't be allowed to


What's the UN going to;Pass resolution 1702 saying "Bad Israel. Shame on you"?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:02:18 PM EDT
[#3]
They are just talking... they don't want a repeat of what happened last time.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:10:11 PM EDT
[#4]

... following a United Nations report that Syria was smuggling arms to Hizbullah in Lebanon.


Even the UN knows that they suck.  They release a report stating that they haven't gotten anything done.  Wonder what that cost?

Impotent bastards.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:12:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Why do people still pretend that the U.N. has a purpose beyond imbezzlement of U.S. money, corruption, graft, and doing everything it can to aid terrorists, third world dictators, and the French?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:17:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Israel should go ahead and ignore the UN. After all, it's just the UN. What are they going to do? Send a horde of blue helmets into Israel to conduct an inspection?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:31:37 PM EDT
[#7]
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:41:51 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Wow. The 88's are usually a little more timid.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:43:57 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted: israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done. Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying
I hope so because I want to see Israel beat them again. Then we can trade American weaponry in exchange for Israeli babes so that the IDF won't run low on munitions.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:50:44 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

... following a United Nations report that Syria was smuggling arms to Hizbullah in Lebanon.


Even the UN knows that they suck.  They release a report stating that they haven't gotten anything done.  Wonder what that cost?

Impotent bastards.


Nothing in UN resolution 1701 called for any measures to be taken in disarming Hezbollah or stopping arms smuggling. The UN force is doing exactly what it was told to by the UN Security Council.

Lets not forget the primary party that wrote the resolution was the US with France also contributing.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:52:09 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Hopefully once they've done that they'll drop by your house and cut your head off.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:54:20 PM EDT
[#12]
It boggles the mind on how ineffectual the UN is. How much longer till countries just give up on trying to solve problems thru it?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:54:47 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Wow. The 88's are usually a little more timid.
Niether side is about to live up to thier side of the resolution,it was a waste of time to begin with,The chosen ones were kicked to fuck out of the promised land once,we put them back there under duress and against the best judgement of our president at the time,I wish everyone would just drop the biblical crap,they are surrounded by people that don't freaking want them there,that is the bottom line.We were wrong to put them there,we've been repaid by our bestest friend isreal spying on us and selling our crap to the highest bidder,I say let them have it out and deal with whoever wins,They can be trusted no more than anyone else.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:57:39 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Yeah that worked out SO well the LAST few times they tried.....why don't you go over and volunteer with Hezzbollocks, I'm sure they'd be glad to have someone of your *caliber*.



Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:59:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Olmert doesn't have the balls to do it.  He's a gutless wonder and will NOT follow through to the end.

This is all talk...blah blah blah...nothing will happen as long as Olmert is running the show.  If you even hear him make a promise again, just realize that the exact opposite will happen.

Not, Bibi on the other hand.....


HH
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:02:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:02:52 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying
'

Troll, troll, troll your boat gently down the stream....



HH
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:08:29 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted: israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done. Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying
I hope so because I want to see Israel beat them again. Then we can trade American weaponry in exchange for Israeli babes so that the IDF won't run low on munitions.


Why? So they can turn around and sell it to some rouge nation? In case you don't know it, that is their specialty. They have sold many of our secrets to China and no president has had the balls to stop arms trading with israel. You can have all the fugly israel "babes" you want, hell, go to hollywood, there are plenty of jew women there for the picking.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:14:34 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted: israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done. Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying
I hope so because I want to see Israel beat them again. Then we can trade American weaponry in exchange for Israeli babes so that the IDF won't run low on munitions.


Why? So they can turn around and sell it to some rouge nation? In case you don't know it, that is their specialty. They have sold many of our secrets to China and no president has had the balls to stop arms trading with israel. You can have all the fugly israel "babes" you want, hell, go to hollywood, there are plenty of jew women there for the picking.


Proof, please?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:17:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:20:29 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted: israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done. Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying
I hope so because I want to see Israel beat them again. Then we can trade American weaponry in exchange for Israeli babes so that the IDF won't run low on munitions.


Why? So they can turn around and sell it to some rouge nation? In case you don't know it, that is their specialty. They have sold many of our secrets to China and no president has had the balls to stop arms trading with israel. You can have all the fugly israel "babes" you want, hell, go to hollywood, there are plenty of jew women there for the picking.


Proof, please?



SURE....

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0509-07.htm
Perhaps the most troubling of all is the Israeli/Chinese arms relationship. Israel is China's second largest supplier of arms. Coincidentally, the newest addition to the Chinese air force, the F-10 multi-role fighter, is an almost identical version of the Lavi (Lion). The Lavi was a joint Israeli-American design based upon the F-16 for manufacture in Israel, but financed mostly with American aid. Plagued by cost overruns, it was canceled in 1987, but not before the U.S. spent $1.5 billion on the project.

Last April, when the Navy EP-3E surveillance plane was forced to land in China after a Chinese F-8 fighter flew into its propeller, photos show Israeli built Python 3 missiles under the fighter's wings.

If Israeli weapons sales to China induce misgivings, including the most recent U.S. blocked sale of Israel's Phalcon airborne radar, the beneficiaries of Chinese arms transfers of Israeli-American technology are even more disturbing. In 1996, as disclosed in the UN Register of Conventional Arms, China sold over 100 missiles and launchers to Iran, along with a handful of combat aircraft and warships. Even worse, in 1997 the New York Daily News reported that Iraq had deployed Israeli-developed, Chinese PL-8 missiles in the no-fly zones, endangering American pilots.

Americans deserve to know where their money is being spent, and how money allocated for friends and technology shared with friends can all too easily end up in the wrong hands, threatening all parties involved. At a minimum, discussions on a new security framework for the Middle East should include plans to monitor and restrict Israeli transfers of U.S.-origin military equipment to potential adversaries. Otherwise, this deadly technology could come back to haunt U.S. and Israeli forces in future conflicts.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FL21Ak01.html
US up in arms over Sino-Israel ties
By Sudha Ramachandran

BANGALORE - Israel's relationship with its closest ally, the United States, seems to have hit a rough patch, with Washington apparently upset with Israel's clandestine dealings with China. The spat is not new, however. It has its roots in a decade-old issue. Old suspicions have returned. It is an explosion into the public domain of a row that has been going on for a few years.

The quarrel is over Israel's alleged concealing from Washington of an upgrade of a major weapons system it sold to China more than a decade ago. The United States claims that by upgrading the system, Israel violated its commitment not to transfer US technology to China without Washington's permission. Israel, however, insists that the upgrade was really just routine maintenance of a system that had originally been sold to China with US approval.

What appears to have propelled this simmering tension into the open is a clash of personalities. According to reports in the media, US Under Secretary of Defense Doug Feith believes that Israeli Defense Ministry director general Amos Yaron misled him on the arms sale to China. On Wednesday, Israeli media reported that Feith had demanded Yaron's resignation (the Pentagon has subsequently denied this).

This clash of personalities is a minor matter and can be sorted out. That is not the case with the underlying issue of concern to the US - Sino-Israel military cooperation.

Israel is China's second-largest arms supplier (the first being Russia). Although diplomatic relations between Israel and China were established only in 1992, military ties go back to the early 1980s. Until formal diplomatic ties were established, the military relationship was covert. Israel sold about US$4 billion worth of arms to China during the covert courtship. In the 1990s, the Sino-Israel military relationship grew rapidly. In fact, arms sales contributed to the strengthening of diplomatic engagement.

The military relationship hit a trough in 2000, however, when Israel came under pressure from the US to scrap a $250 million deal to sell China the Phalcon, an airborne radar system equipped with advanced Israeli-made aeronautics on board a Russian-made plane. Washington's argument was that providing Beijing access to the technology would upset the military balance between China and Taiwan and threaten US interests in the region. When the US Congress threatened to cut the $2.8 billion it gives Israel annually if the deal went ahead, Israel buckled and scrapped it.

For years, the US government has expressed concerns over Israel illegally transferring technology to China. During the Gulf War, the US gave Israel Patriot missiles as protection against Iraqi Scud missiles. In 1992, a US intelligence report revealed that soon after the end of the Gulf War, Israel had sold Patriot anti-missile data to China. Israel denied the intelligence report.

Washington has also alleged on several occasions that Israel violated agreements by exporting restricted US technology it buys with yearly US subsidies. This was the case with the largely US-funded Lavi fighter-plane program. Israel, the Americans believe, passed on technology to Beijing. China's F-10 fighter jet is believed to be almost identical to the Lavi.

Washington has also expressed concern from time to time that Israel's arms trade with China could result in its military technology falling into the "wrong hands" - such as Iran's, for instance. But this argument rings rather hollow considering that the US itself supplies Pakistan with high-tech weaponry, despite Pakistan's "all-weather friendship" with China and Islamabad's abysmal record on the issue of nuclear and missile proliferation and its supply of military technology and know-how to Washington's foes.

Israel's damaged reputation
Unlike previous occasions when suspicions were expressed more quietly, with the Phalcon deal the issue erupted into the open. The cancellation of the Phalcon deal damaged Israel's image and interests to a considerable extent. It eroded Israel's credibility as a weapons supplier in the international arms market and it laid bare to the world Israel's susceptibility to US pressure.

The cancellation of the Phalcon deal not surprisingly led to a chill in Sino-Israel relations. Israel subsequently forked out $350 million in compensation to China, and there were no known arms sales through 2003. Back in 2002, a deal for Israeli communication satellites was signed. Early this year, an Israeli delegation went to China for talks on rebuilding military ties. Reports suggested that Israel and China were even considering reopening the Phalcon deal.

The military relationship is important for both countries. China is keen to have access to Israel's high-quality defense products and services, and the relationship with Israel has enabled it to acquire "dual-use technology" that the US and Europe have been reluctant to provide.

Israel, which is among the world's top exporters of arms, is keen on its military ties with China for several reasons. According to Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at the Bar Ilan University in Tel Aviv and consultant to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and National Security Council, since Israel does not sell arms to the Arab countries or Iran, it has fewer potential markets than other major players in the high-tech arms market. (However, a look at Israel's arms market over the past several decades indicates that the country has sold arms to regimes that other countries have been reluctant to trade with.)

Unlike most other arms manufacturers, Israel exports 75% of the total production of its military industries. Israel's military industry is dependent on exports for its survival. And arms sales to China are among its most lucrative businesses. Therefore, arms trade with China is very important, providing contracts for jobs as well as income to offset the high costs of maintaining Israel's technology and industrial base. Military trade has also paved the way for broader trade in other dual-use and high-tech goods. China's immense value as a trade partner for Israel's military industry is evident from Israel's engagement with China and Taiwan. In the early 1990s, Israel passed up defense deals with Taiwan so as not to damage its fledging relationship with China.

Eugene Kogan, a defense-industry analyst, writes in the Jamestown Foundation's China Brief that while Israel has rebuffed Taiwan's repeated attempts to revive relations with it, "when it comes to contact with China, the Israeli Ministry of Defense (MOD) promotes a clear-cut policy. China is an extremely important trade partner for the Israeli defense industry. As a result, the MOD, which oversees the arms trade with China, has ensured that Israel maintains a positive relationship with the PRC [People's Republic of China], while avoiding any contact with Taiwan which might disrupt this partnership."

The Israel-China military relationship also contributed to China softening its anti-Israel stance on the Israel-Palestine conflict. China's policy moved from its pro-Arab tilt to a more nuanced appreciation of the Israeli position. (Chinese criticism of Israel increased markedly after the cancellation of the Phalcon deal.)

What is interesting about China's military relationship with Israel is that Beijing has been able to increase engagement with Israel without alienating the Arabs. Even Iran hasn't protested Beijing's close military ties to Israel.

Israel has much to lose by angering the Chinese. But it has more to lose by angering the US. The cost of not complying with Washington's demands could result in a cutback on the nearly $2 billion in foreign military assistance that the US provides Israel annually. It could result in political and diplomatic costs, too, for Israel. It will have to do a fine balancing act if it wants to maintain its military ties with China without provoking Washington's ire.



NEED MORE? Just do a search on any of the major search engines
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:26:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Good, i am sick of this lettign the ME get away with anythign and everyone crapping on Israel


they are their own country, they are a nuclear power, let them do what needs to be done, no-one else will it seems
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:28:56 PM EDT
[#23]


They need to put somebody like Feiglin into office who isn't going to beat around the bush trying to appease the world that hates them.

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:37:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Everyone seems to forget that isreal was taken by the MURDER of every living person that originally occupied the area.This was at the hands of the jews.And this is by there own holy books!!!The region has always been disputed and always will be.Nothing we can do will ever stop this.Let there be a winner,get the shit over with,and don't trust the winner no matter what!!!
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:40:36 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:
Everyone seems to forget that isreal was taken by the MURDER of every living person that originally occupied the area.This was at the hands of the jews.And this is by there own holy books!!!The region has always been disputed and always will be.Nothing we can do will ever stop this.Let there be a winner,get the shit over with,and don't trust the winner no matter what!!!


Um...better pick up a history book buddy.

There were just as many Jews displaced from Arab lands as Arab displaced from Israel.

And no, not everyone was murdered. If ethnic cleansing was at all a goal of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza would not be full of Palestinians, nor would there be a shitload of Israeli arabs.

Any more BS to spread around, or...?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:47:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Excuse the fuck outta me homeboy,but the jews raised their armies for fourty years and delt the region total conquest,every man woman child, and animal was slayed in thier occupation.It's you who obviously doesn't do history!!!! The latest incarnation of isreal was begrudgingly agreed to by our leadership after WW2 as more of a poor jews so sorry for the holocaust land grant.I'm not going to deny the hardships the jews suffered,but I am not about to candy coat the way the land was originally taken either,it most certainly was genocide!!!
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:47:52 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Israel will never be booted from the land that belongs to them, syria is treading on thin ice, sooner or later damascus will be left a ruinous heap...  and i will throw a party


Ummm... its disputed who owns it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:50:51 PM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Israel will never be booted from the land that belongs to them, syria is treading on thin ice, sooner or later damascus will be left a ruinous heap...  and i will throw a party


Ummm... its disputed who owns it.


Not really, the Israeli's have it, therefore it is theirs.  That whole possession thing is 10/10ths of the law when it comes to nations.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:52:50 PM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Israel will never be booted from the land that belongs to them, syria is treading on thin ice, sooner or later damascus will be left a ruinous heap...  and i will throw a party


Ummm... its disputed who owns it.


Not really, the Israeli's have it, therefore it is theirs.  That whole possession thing is 10/10ths of the law when it comes to nations.


Maybe... but they will never have safety or security "in their land" until they strike a deal with the Arabs and return to them a least a portion of what the Israelis took from them.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:58:04 PM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Israel will never be booted from the land that belongs to them, syria is treading on thin ice, sooner or later damascus will be left a ruinous heap...  and i will throw a party


Ummm... its disputed who owns it.


Not really, the Israeli's have it, therefore it is theirs.  That whole possession thing is 10/10ths of the law when it comes to nations.


Maybe... but they will never have safety or security "in their land" until they strike a deal with the Arabs and return to them a least a portion of what the Israelis took from them.


All the Arabs understand is violence.

The day after Israel gave the Palestinians Gaza, the Palestinians celebrated by launching rocket attacks into Israel.

They see concessions as a sign of weakness. Like Egypt and Jordan, they will just need to learn to accept Israel's existence.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 8:21:02 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Israel will never be booted from the land that belongs to them, syria is treading on thin ice, sooner or later damascus will be left a ruinous heap...  and i will throw a party


Ummm... its disputed who owns it.


Not really, the Israeli's have it, therefore it is theirs.  That whole possession thing is 10/10ths of the law when it comes to nations.


Maybe... but they will never have safety or security "in their land" until they strike a deal with the Arabs and return to them a least a portion of what the Israelis took from them.


All the Arabs understand is violence.

The day after Israel gave the Palestinians Gaza, the Palestinians celebrated by launching rocket attacks into Israel.

They see concessions as a sign of weakness. Like Egypt and Jordan, they will just need to learn to accept Israel's existence.


You got a lot of time to kill before that happens.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 10:06:40 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done.

Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying


Israel will never be booted from the land that belongs to them, syria is treading on thin ice, sooner or later damascus will be left a ruinous heap...  and i will throw a party


Ummm... its disputed who owns it.


Not really, the Israeli's have it, therefore it is theirs.  That whole possession thing is 10/10ths of the law when it comes to nations.


Maybe... but they will never have safety or security "in their land" until they strike a deal with the Arabs and return to them a least a portion of what the Israelis took from them.


"If we were just nice to the bad guys and tried to make friends with them, maybe they'd stop shitting on us every chance they get. No, wait, they did it again. Let's try talking again."

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 10:12:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Olmert is a pussy and was the anchor around their necks last time around

When is the next election over there?

Im sure you will see a much more hardline Gov voted in
they will not make the same mistake with a half assed war again

they must think they are the US now LOL
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:14:28 AM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted: israel needs their collective asses kicked sometime SOON and tossed out of their so-called "promised land". Maybe Palestine, Egypt and Syria can come to see things eye-to-eye and get things done. Party at Cyclone-7's when they do, I'm buying
I hope so because I want to see Israel beat them again. Then we can trade American weaponry in exchange for Israeli babes so that the IDF won't run low on munitions.


Why? So they can turn around and sell it to some rouge nation? In case you don't know it, that is their specialty. They have sold many of our secrets to China and no president has had the balls to stop arms trading with israel. You can have all the fugly israel "babes" you want, hell, go to hollywood, there are plenty of jew women there for the picking.


Proof, please?



SURE....

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0509-07.htmPerhaps the most troubling of all is the Israeli/Chinese arms relationship. Israel is China's second largest supplier of arms. Coincidentally, the newest addition to the Chinese air force, the F-10 multi-role fighter, is an almost identical version of the Lavi (Lion). The Lavi was a joint Israeli-American design based upon the F-16 for manufacture in Israel, but financed mostly with American aid. Plagued by cost overruns, it was canceled in 1987, but not before the U.S. spent $1.5 billion on the project.

Last April, when the Navy EP-3E surveillance plane was forced to land in China after a Chinese F-8 fighter flew into its propeller, photos show Israeli built Python 3 missiles under the fighter's wings.

If Israeli weapons sales to China induce misgivings, including the most recent U.S. blocked sale of Israel's Phalcon airborne radar, the beneficiaries of Chinese arms transfers of Israeli-American technology are even more disturbing. In 1996, as disclosed in the UN Register of Conventional Arms, China sold over 100 missiles and launchers to Iran, along with a handful of combat aircraft and warships. Even worse, in 1997 the New York Daily News reported that Iraq had deployed Israeli-developed, Chinese PL-8 missiles in the no-fly zones, endangering American pilots.

Americans deserve to know where their money is being spent, and how money allocated for friends and technology shared with friends can all too easily end up in the wrong hands, threatening all parties involved. At a minimum, discussions on a new security framework for the Middle East should include plans to monitor and restrict Israeli transfers of U.S.-origin military equipment to potential adversaries. Otherwise, this deadly technology could come back to haunt U.S. and Israeli forces in future conflicts.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FL21Ak01.html
US up in arms over Sino-Israel ties
By Sudha Ramachandran

BANGALORE - Israel's relationship with its closest ally, the United States, seems to have hit a rough patch, with Washington apparently upset with Israel's clandestine dealings with China. The spat is not new, however. It has its roots in a decade-old issue. Old suspicions have returned. It is an explosion into the public domain of a row that has been going on for a few years.

The quarrel is over Israel's alleged concealing from Washington of an upgrade of a major weapons system it sold to China more than a decade ago. The United States claims that by upgrading the system, Israel violated its commitment not to transfer US technology to China without Washington's permission. Israel, however, insists that the upgrade was really just routine maintenance of a system that had originally been sold to China with US approval.

What appears to have propelled this simmering tension into the open is a clash of personalities. According to reports in the media, US Under Secretary of Defense Doug Feith believes that Israeli Defense Ministry director general Amos Yaron misled him on the arms sale to China. On Wednesday, Israeli media reported that Feith had demanded Yaron's resignation (the Pentagon has subsequently denied this).

This clash of personalities is a minor matter and can be sorted out. That is not the case with the underlying issue of concern to the US - Sino-Israel military cooperation.

Israel is China's second-largest arms supplier (the first being Russia). Although diplomatic relations between Israel and China were established only in 1992, military ties go back to the early 1980s. Until formal diplomatic ties were established, the military relationship was covert. Israel sold about US$4 billion worth of arms to China during the covert courtship. In the 1990s, the Sino-Israel military relationship grew rapidly. In fact, arms sales contributed to the strengthening of diplomatic engagement.

The military relationship hit a trough in 2000, however, when Israel came under pressure from the US to scrap a $250 million deal to sell China the Phalcon, an airborne radar system equipped with advanced Israeli-made aeronautics on board a Russian-made plane. Washington's argument was that providing Beijing access to the technology would upset the military balance between China and Taiwan and threaten US interests in the region. When the US Congress threatened to cut the $2.8 billion it gives Israel annually if the deal went ahead, Israel buckled and scrapped it.

For years, the US government has expressed concerns over Israel illegally transferring technology to China. During the Gulf War, the US gave Israel Patriot missiles as protection against Iraqi Scud missiles. In 1992, a US intelligence report revealed that soon after the end of the Gulf War, Israel had sold Patriot anti-missile data to China. Israel denied the intelligence report.

Washington has also alleged on several occasions that Israel violated agreements by exporting restricted US technology it buys with yearly US subsidies. This was the case with the largely US-funded Lavi fighter-plane program. Israel, the Americans believe, passed on technology to Beijing. China's F-10 fighter jet is believed to be almost identical to the Lavi.

Washington has also expressed concern from time to time that Israel's arms trade with China could result in its military technology falling into the "wrong hands" - such as Iran's, for instance. But this argument rings rather hollow considering that the US itself supplies Pakistan with high-tech weaponry, despite Pakistan's "all-weather friendship" with China and Islamabad's abysmal record on the issue of nuclear and missile proliferation and its supply of military technology and know-how to Washington's foes.

Israel's damaged reputation
Unlike previous occasions when suspicions were expressed more quietly, with the Phalcon deal the issue erupted into the open. The cancellation of the Phalcon deal damaged Israel's image and interests to a considerable extent. It eroded Israel's credibility as a weapons supplier in the international arms market and it laid bare to the world Israel's susceptibility to US pressure.

The cancellation of the Phalcon deal not surprisingly led to a chill in Sino-Israel relations. Israel subsequently forked out $350 million in compensation to China, and there were no known arms sales through 2003. Back in 2002, a deal for Israeli communication satellites was signed. Early this year, an Israeli delegation went to China for talks on rebuilding military ties. Reports suggested that Israel and China were even considering reopening the Phalcon deal.

The military relationship is important for both countries. China is keen to have access to Israel's high-quality defense products and services, and the relationship with Israel has enabled it to acquire "dual-use technology" that the US and Europe have been reluctant to provide.

Israel, which is among the world's top exporters of arms, is keen on its military ties with China for several reasons. According to Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at the Bar Ilan University in Tel Aviv and consultant to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and National Security Council, since Israel does not sell arms to the Arab countries or Iran, it has fewer potential markets than other major players in the high-tech arms market. (However, a look at Israel's arms market over the past several decades indicates that the country has sold arms to regimes that other countries have been reluctant to trade with.)

Unlike most other arms manufacturers, Israel exports 75% of the total production of its military industries. Israel's military industry is dependent on exports for its survival. And arms sales to China are among its most lucrative businesses. Therefore, arms trade with China is very important, providing contracts for jobs as well as income to offset the high costs of maintaining Israel's technology and industrial base. Military trade has also paved the way for broader trade in other dual-use and high-tech goods. China's immense value as a trade partner for Israel's military industry is evident from Israel's engagement with China and Taiwan. In the early 1990s, Israel passed up defense deals with Taiwan so as not to damage its fledging relationship with China.

Eugene Kogan, a defense-industry analyst, writes in the Jamestown Foundation's China Brief that while Israel has rebuffed Taiwan's repeated attempts to revive relations with it, "when it comes to contact with China, the Israeli Ministry of Defense (MOD) promotes a clear-cut policy. China is an extremely important trade partner for the Israeli defense industry. As a result, the MOD, which oversees the arms trade with China, has ensured that Israel maintains a positive relationship with the PRC [People's Republic of China], while avoiding any contact with Taiwan which might disrupt this partnership."

The Israel-China military relationship also contributed to China softening its anti-Israel stance on the Israel-Palestine conflict. China's policy moved from its pro-Arab tilt to a more nuanced appreciation of the Israeli position. (Chinese criticism of Israel increased markedly after the cancellation of the Phalcon deal.)

What is interesting about China's military relationship with Israel is that Beijing has been able to increase engagement with Israel without alienating the Arabs. Even Iran hasn't protested Beijing's close military ties to Israel.

Israel has much to lose by angering the Chinese. But it has more to lose by angering the US. The cost of not complying with Washington's demands could result in a cutback on the nearly $2 billion in foreign military assistance that the US provides Israel annually. It could result in political and diplomatic costs, too, for Israel. It will have to do a fine balancing act if it wants to maintain its military ties with China without provoking Washington's ire.



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The highlighted part in red is all you need to read.  Interesting source "progressive" news.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:23:43 AM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:
Everyone seems to forget that isreal was taken by the MURDER of every living person that originally occupied the area.This was at the hands of the jews.And this is by there own holy books!!!The region has always been disputed and always will be.Nothing we can do will ever stop this.Let there be a winner,get the shit over with,and don't trust the winner no matter what!!!


They have medication that could probably help you a great deal.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:25:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:26:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:29:40 AM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Everyone seems to forget that isreal was taken by the MURDER of every living person that originally occupied the area.This was at the hands of the jews.And this is by there own holy books!!!



well this has my vote for most uninformed post of the year.


He's actually tied with himself on his prior post...is that possible?
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:31:23 AM EDT
[#39]
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