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Posted: 3/4/2008 5:44:50 AM EDT
apnews.excite.com/article/20080304/D8V6JUU80.html

Israel Can Defend Itself Against Iran

Mar 4, 7:21 AM (ET)


JERUSALEM (AP) - Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Tuesday that Israel has the "might and power" to defend itself against any threat from Iran, indicating a willingness to use military force if necessary against Tehran's nuclear ambitions.

Olmert spoke after Iran defiantly vowed to continue its nuclear program, despite new sanctions the U.N. imposed on Tehran on Monday for refusing to suspend uranimum enrichment, a process necessary to build an atomic bomb.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly called for Israel to be "wiped off the map," and there is evidence Iran bankrolls extremist anti-Israel groups like Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in the Palestinian areas.

"Israel definitely sees itself threatened by Iran," Olmert said in a tour of northern Israel. "Israel has the might and power to defend itself against any threat."

But he quickly added, "I don't think the Iranian matter is primarily Israel's responsibility. It is the responsibility of the United States and the leading countries in the international community that are convinced Iran constitutes a threat."

Israel has always said it favored a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear affair, and did not see itself taking the lead in the campaign against Tehran's efforts to achieve nuclear capabilities.

On Tuesday, Olmert said the international community had to take additional steps to stop Iran's nuclear program, which Tehran insists is peaceful. He did not say what he thought those steps should be.

Israel considers Iran a serious threat because of its nuclear program and its arsenal of long-range missiles, which can be fitted with nuclear warheads and are capable of striking the Jewish state.



Link Posted: 3/4/2008 5:50:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 5:51:50 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…


Not the same thing at all.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 5:52:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Israel could wipe most of the ME off the map if it was provoked enough to do so.  I don't think Iran would be too difficult for them.

Whether you believe the Israelites are God's chosen people or not, having not lost a battle in over 5000 years is a pretty impressive record.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 5:54:30 AM EDT
[#4]
If push came to shove, I believe Israel could hold it's own.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:02:53 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…


Pretty much.  

Israel doesn't have the ability to fight a "war on terror" or even a protracted war on its own.  Most of Israel's power is in propaganda and manipulation in getting the USA to pay for and do things.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:04:40 AM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…


Ignorant.

Israel has shown restraint in fighting the palis.  At any given moment, Israel could own every inch of real estate in the middle east.  But that is not point.  They are not animals and do not target the civilian population like their enemies.  If they were not concerned for innocent lives, Israel could get rid of the PLO and Hezbellah problems overnight.  But, that is not acceptable to their standards for preserving life.  

Israel has a record of pulling off the most spectacular raids and rescues in the history of armed conflict.  Their record is better than any other western nations' special operations teams- including the US and UK.  I'm not saying that they are better soldiers, so don't get your knickers in a bunch.  But they have proven themselves as masters of open war.  They are the only country in the middle east with nuclear weapons and could have turned Iran into a sheet of glass any time they wanted.  If it comes to hostilities with Iran, there is no doubt that Israel would eliminate the threat.

BTW: how long did it take you guys to completely halt the actions of the IRA?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:07:02 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…


It took the Brits a few extra days to make good with Ireland and that was mainly do to the Irish economic boom in high tech.

And we still have that Mexico issue that will never go away.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:07:07 AM EDT
[#8]
Hopefully they take out Iran's nuke facilities so we don't end up in another war.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:07:30 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:


BTW: how long did it take you guys to completely halt the actions of the IRA?


Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:09:07 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
Hopefully they stealthily take out Iran's nuke facilities (again) just like they did in the early 80's so we don't end up in another war.


Fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:09:29 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
But he quickly added, "I don't think the Iranian matter is primarily Israel's responsibility. It is the responsibility of the United States and the leading countries in the international community that are convinced Iran constitutes a threat."

Israel has always said it favored a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear affair, and did not see itself taking the lead in the campaign against Tehran's efforts to achieve nuclear capabilities.


In other words, they are just blowing hot air and want us to take care of this for their peace of mind.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:12:01 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
But he quickly added, "I don't think the Iranian matter is primarily Israel's responsibility. It is the responsibility of the United States and the leading countries in the international community that are convinced Iran constitutes a threat."

Israel has always said it favored a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear affair, and did not see itself taking the lead in the campaign against Tehran's efforts to achieve nuclear capabilities.


In other words, they are just blowing hot air and want us to take care of this for their peace of mind.


I disagree with your conclusion.  Israel knows that Iran will completely ignore any diplomatic gestures offered by any group led by Israel.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:12:53 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
Hopefully they take out Iran's nuke facilities so we don't end up in another war.



They do not have the capability to do that… period.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:13:32 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
Israel could wipe most of the ME off the map if it was provoked enough to do so.



Only by using nuclear weapons… they won't.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:14:54 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

At any given moment, Israel could own every inch of real estate in the middle east.  



No they couldn't… Israel's combat power is now a shadow of it's former strength. Go count up how many strike aircraft they have these days.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:17:02 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…


Pretty much.  

Israel doesn't have the ability to fight a "war on terror" or even a protracted war on its own.  Most of Israel's power is in propaganda and manipulation in getting the USA to pay for and do things.


Fail.

Israel doesn't want to commit genocide so they use restraint when dealing with Hamas and the Hezzies.

If Israel's power was solely in "proaganda", its enemies who have no compunction against waging genocidal warfare would have killed every Jew in the middle east by now.

Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:17:05 AM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
But he quickly added, "I don't think the Iranian matter is primarily Israel's responsibility. It is the responsibility of the United States and the leading countries in the international community that are convinced Iran constitutes a threat."

Israel has always said it favored a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear affair, and did not see itself taking the lead in the campaign against Tehran's efforts to achieve nuclear capabilities.


In other words, they are just blowing hot air and want us to take care of this for their peace of mind.



Pretty much…

Israeli Diplomacy 101: Made a loud noise and tell other people to sort the problem or they'll make a huge mess for them to sort out.


Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:18:31 AM EDT
[#18]
height=8
Quoted:
Israel could wipe most of the ME off the map if it was provoked enough to do so.  I don't think Iran would be too difficult for them.

Whether you believe the Israelites are God's chosen people or not, having not lost a battle in over 5000 years is a pretty impressive record.


Did you somehow miss large swaths of the Old Testament?  Samaria was enslaved by Assyria, Judah got it's butt raped by Babylon, and Rome seemed to run the show for a thousand years.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:18:43 AM EDT
[#19]
Israel lost their balls a while ago.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:19:00 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

At any given moment, Israel could own every inch of real estate in the middle east.  



No they couldn't… Israel's combat power is now a shadow of it's former strength. Go count up how many strike aircraft they have these days.


So you're comparing the IDF to the Royal Navy?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:20:04 AM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

At any given moment, Israel could own every inch of real estate in the middle east.  



No they couldn't… Israel's combat power is now a shadow of it's former strength. Go count up how many strike aircraft they have these days.


So you're comparing the IDF to the Royal Navy?



Ah, your losing the argument so resort to bait and switch…
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:21:54 AM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:
Israel lost their balls a while ago.



Lebanon was a disaster for the myth of IDF invincibility…

Israel blinked first. Hizbullah are still there in Lebanon in strength, Israel is not.

Image is everything in ME politics.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:29:33 AM EDT
[#23]
double tap
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:29:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Israel current airforce fighter/strike capability

Dedicated long range Strike Aircraft

F-15I - 25
F16I - @25

Fighters

F-15 A/B/C - 65
F-16 A/B/C/D - 220

Tankers

KC-707 - 5
C130H - 5


And with the force the IDF are going to 'own' the entire ME?

Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:29:35 AM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Israel lost their balls a while ago.



Lebanon was a disaster for the myth of IDF invincibility…

Israel blinked first. Hizbullah are still there in Lebanon in strength, Israel is not.

Image is everything in ME politics.


You are correct about image.  It was the politico's in Israel who lost the lebanon fiasco.

Just like here with Vietnam and their atttempt to do so in Iraq.

TXL
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:29:51 AM EDT
[#26]
I think the Jewish people have a very good memory of what can happen if they allow another power dominate them.  i think Israel would fight like the meanest cornered dog you can imagine as the fight they would be fighting is not one for political gain.  It would be a fight for survival itself and if that happens, I expect there will be lots of glass in Iran and any other country that decides they want a piece of that fight.

I think this is why Iran wants nukes of their own so bad.  If they have Nukes then Israel would need to know that they could not use nukes against Iran in a fight or Iran would nuke Israel in return.  With a Mutual Assured Destruction, well then the fighting would need to be strictly conventional and in that fight technology advantages can only gain you so much when facing huge populations around you that want to kill you.

I exoect that the war we are fighting in the Middle East is minor compared to a war we will need to fight some day.  At least it will not be Sadam trying to nuke Israel and Iran is far enough away to make them less of a threat then if it were Iraq that was causing the problems.

Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:36:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:37:58 AM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…


Ignorant.

Israel has shown restraint in fighting the palis.  At any given moment, Israel could own every inch of real estate in the middle east.  But that is not point.  They are not animals and do not target the civilian population like their enemies.  If they were not concerned for innocent lives, Israel could get rid of the PLO and Hezbellah problems overnight.  But, that is not acceptable to their standards for preserving life.  

Israel has a record of pulling off the most spectacular raids and rescues in the history of armed conflict.  Their record is better than any other western nations' special operations teams- including the US and UK.  I'm not saying that they are better soldiers, so don't get your knickers in a bunch.  But they have proven themselves as masters of open war.  They are the only country in the middle east with nuclear weapons and could have turned Iran into a sheet of glass any time they wanted.  If it comes to hostilities with Iran, there is no doubt that Israel would eliminate the threat.

BTW: how long did it take you guys to completely halt the actions of the IRA?


+1
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:38:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Israel could kill 100.000 of the Rocket People from Gaza and their little dogs too in 3 hours with conventional bombs and rockets ! So 3 WAVES OF 75 Israeli PLANES EACH (With Air Refuel from USAF over Iraq and also USAF Fighter protection from Iranian Chasers on return leg) sounds about right to stop Irans Nuke Production for another 5-10 years would be Nice ?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:43:20 AM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:
Israel could kill 100.000 of the Rocket People from Gaza and their little dogs too in 3 hours with conventional bombs and rockets ! So 3 WAVES OF 75 Israeli PLANES EACH (With Air Refuel from USAF over Iraq and also USAF Fighter protection from Iranian Chasers on return leg) sounds about right to stop Irans Nuke Production for another 5-10 years would be Nice ?


Great plan… now there is no effective air cover over Israel what's to stop the Syrians and anyone else in the region bombing and rocketing the crap out of Israel?


Greater plan… now you have a general all out war war in the ME.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:54:20 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
But he quickly added, "I don't think the Iranian matter is primarily Israel's responsibility. It is the responsibility of the United States and the leading countries in the international community that are convinced Iran constitutes a threat."

Israel has always said it favored a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear affair, and did not see itself taking the lead in the campaign against Tehran's efforts to achieve nuclear capabilities.


In other words, they are just blowing hot air and want us to take care of this for their peace of mind.



Sanctions would work to avoid a lot of misery if only China and Russia would agree to them. It would be great if the US could get them to change their minds.

Link Posted: 3/4/2008 6:57:25 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
But he quickly added, "I don't think the Iranian matter is primarily Israel's responsibility. It is the responsibility of the United States and the leading countries in the international community that are convinced Iran constitutes a threat."

Israel has always said it favored a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear affair, and did not see itself taking the lead in the campaign against Tehran's efforts to achieve nuclear capabilities.


In other words, they are just blowing hot air and want us to take care of this for their peace of mind.



Sanctions would work to avoid a lot of misery if only China and Russia would agree to them. It would be great if the US could get them to change their minds.




Well GW wasn't thinking very strategically when he recognized Kosovan independence now was he… Vlad Putin is pissed and is not going to be exactly 'receptive' to any US requests for sanctions or requests to stop selling arms to Iran.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:06:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Ummm. doesnt israel have like over 100 ICBM fueled and ready to go? I figured that would be enough to wipe out iran, syria and north korea all at once?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:06:52 AM EDT
[#34]

Greater plan… now you have a general all out war war in the ME.


After the 2006 Debacle in Lebanon, all Israel is doing is presiding over a bunch of "frozen" conflicts, right now.  Like the U.S., Israel is at war with Iran, regardless if it wishes to recognize that fact.

We have chosen our strategy in dealing with the Iranians, and it remains to be seen what the Izzies will choose.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:10:18 AM EDT
[#35]

Sanctions would work to avoid a lot of misery if only China and Russia would agree to them. It would be great if the US could get them to change their minds.


Sanctions have never succeeded in getting a nation to disarm with WMD.  Only recognition of self interest by the nation that owns WMD (South Africa) or could potentially do so (Japan) keeps them from arming.

The Iranian WMD program will only be accomplished by regime change.  The questions now will be
1) What is the nature of an Iranian regime the U.S. could live with
2) What methods will we use
and
3) What is our timeline?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:16:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Does the IDF not have F4s and their version of the Mirage in storage for a rainy day or for reserve units still?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:18:59 AM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…


Yep.

Israel is very limited in its ability to project its power all the way to Iran.
Especially when you look at the countries in between.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:20:23 AM EDT
[#38]
I think the aircraft listed as fighters could be used in an ordinance hauling role.

The IAF used training aircraft armed with rockets against the Egyptians.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:20:54 AM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:
Ummm. doesnt israel have like over 100 ICBM fueled and ready to go? I figured that would be enough to wipe out iran, syria and north korea all at once?



They have IRBM's that ca just reach the far side of Iran, possibly… but realistically, if Israel is going to be firing them downrange at Iran they are going to find that someone at the Strategic Missile Forces HQ in Kuntsevo is going to picking up a red phone and asking for his 'Go Codes'.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:22:47 AM EDT
[#40]

Quoted:
Does the IDF not have F4s and their version of the Mirage in storage for a rainy day or for reserve units still?



And those old clunkers life expectancy against double digit SAMS is how long?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:24:53 AM EDT
[#41]
No, I completely agree, but an F4 could still provide some sort of emergency CAP over the homeland if need be.  



Im suprised the IDF has not ordered more F15Is.  50 strike fighters is stupid, but then again, we have 40 out of a planned 183 Raptors to defend the entire North American continient.  
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:26:02 AM EDT
[#42]
Wiki says the F-4 2000s were retired in 2004.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:26:47 AM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:
......Great plan… now there is no effective air cover over Israel what's to stop the Syrians and anyone else in the region bombing and rocketing the crap out of Israel?


Greater plan… now you have a general all out war war in the ME.


Nuclear Deterrent
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:28:40 AM EDT
[#44]
I think we should sell them a bunch of surplus F-15A models right now from the USAF, especial that were or are based in Florida lol.




Now we just need a used car sales person with a plaid jacket to sell it to the IDF, payback for selling secrets to the PLA lol.  
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:33:14 AM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
......Great plan… now there is no effective air cover over Israel what's to stop the Syrians and anyone else in the region bombing and rocketing the crap out of Israel?


Greater plan… now you have a general all out war war in the ME.


Nuclear Deterrent


Is only useful against other nukes.
Israel won't meet a non-nuclear attack with a nuclear response.
Won't happen and everybody knows it.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:35:42 AM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:
Israel doesn't want to commit genocide so they use restraint when dealing with Hamas and the Hezzies.


How did Israel's 'war" with Lebanon go last year?

Don't blame Israel's problems on 'restraint", the plain fact is they do not have the capability of stopping terrorism.


Quoted:
If Israel's power was solely in "proaganda", its enemies who have no compunction against waging genocidal warfare would have killed every Jew in the middle east by now.


Israel does not equal "jews" in any of this discussion.  It is a nation in the middle east.  You statement is false in that there are people of the jewish faith who live in other ME countries.  
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:37:25 AM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
......Great plan… now there is no effective air cover over Israel what's to stop the Syrians and anyone else in the region bombing and rocketing the crap out of Israel?


Greater plan… now you have a general all out war war in the ME.


Nuclear Deterrent


Is only useful against other nukes.
Israel won't meet a non-nuclear attack with a nuclear response.
Won't happen and everybody knows it.


Not entirely true.

They would meet a biological or chemical attack with a nuclear response.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:41:11 AM EDT
[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
......Great plan… now there is no effective air cover over Israel what's to stop the Syrians and anyone else in the region bombing and rocketing the crap out of Israel?


Greater plan… now you have a general all out war war in the ME.


Nuclear Deterrent


Is only useful against other nukes.
Israel won't meet a non-nuclear attack with a nuclear response.
Won't happen and everybody knows it.


I don't know.
I think they would do what ever it takes to survive.
I certainly isn't in their best interests to use nukes.
But if their country was going to be wiped off the map in a conventional attack they would.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 7:41:30 AM EDT
[#49]

Quoted:
Israel can't even stop home made firework rockets coming over it's borders currently…


Hell we can't stop people from just walking over ours, whats your point?
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 8:01:56 AM EDT
[#50]
OK, here's your KNOWN target set… mostly hardened now with reasonably good SAM defences.







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