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Posted: 8/2/2017 9:04:22 PM EST
I like shooting at stuff, and I also like beating people at things... but I don't like shotguns, and I don't like being beat. With that being said, are two gun competitions ever hosted? Or is it strictly 3 gun? By two gun I mean carbine and pistol, not shotgun and scout rifle like some of you would prefer.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:09:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2017 9:10:03 PM EST by T3hFantom]
Yes there is. Do you use facebook? There is a group called uspsa-washington state shooters that sometimes posts about 2 gun matches around the state.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:10:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By T3hFantom:
Yes there is. Do you use facebook? There is a group called uspsa-washington practical shooters that sometimes posts about 2 gun matches.
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I should
Probably update my profile, I live in the country's armpit. Aka Columbus, GA
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:10:09 PM EST
Just shoot 3 gun and stop sucking with a shotgun
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:11:05 PM EST
I just did my first 3 gun last weekend and got 5th out of 20.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:11:16 PM EST
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Originally Posted By mban2:


I should
Probably update my profile, I live in the country's armpit. Aka Columbus, GA
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It was already decided that Gary, Indiana is the armpit of America.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:11:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2017 9:11:57 PM EST by Hahns10mm]
Check out InRangeTV on youtube. Ian and Karl do a lot of two gun matches. Looks really fun.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:12:12 PM EST
Yep lots of 2-gun stuff out there for those that don't like the shotgun.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:13:15 PM EST
Yeah, They are both a little far from me and I have a hundred things to do around the property. I hope to get in on some matches in the future. I hope you find some local to you.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_13/547986_2G-ACM---2-Gun-Action-Challenge-Match.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_13/615132_August-AZ2GUN-monthly-match-announcement.html

Some cool videos and really talented guys.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:13:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Hahns10mm:
Check out InRangeTV on youtube. Ian and Karl do a lot of two gun matches. Looks really fun.
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Yep check out their harder than hell 2 gun matches.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:15:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
Just shoot 3 gun and stop sucking with a shotgun
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I love shotguns but three gun shotguns have gotten retarded. The race handguns and rifles i can see being useful in real life but the shotguns are full derp.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:18:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Yarael:
Yep check out their harder than hell 2 gun matches.
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Originally Posted By Yarael:
Originally Posted By Hahns10mm:
Check out InRangeTV on youtube. Ian and Karl do a lot of two gun matches. Looks really fun.
Yep check out their harder than hell 2 gun matches.
Now this looks like fun! I really like to remain complacent and not learn new skills like shotgun.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:18:55 PM EST
Where are you in Washington?

FNRL (Friday Night Rifle League) a weekly indoor two gun shoot used to be held at WSI, Wades and most recently at West Coast Armory. I think it's currently searching for a new home. The format was usually carbine with a transition to pistol. I think Wades has a bi weekly pistol caliber carbine shoot. Rifle calibers seem to be allowed after you shoot a few safely.

There are definitely events out there.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:19:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
I love shotguns but three gun shotguns have gotten retarded. The race handguns and rifles i can see being useful in real life but the shotguns are full derp.
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
Originally Posted By 03RN:
Just shoot 3 gun and stop sucking with a shotgun
I love shotguns but three gun shotguns have gotten retarded. The race handguns and rifles i can see being useful in real life but the shotguns are full derp.
Maybe at the pro level but my 590a1 with 7 round tube beat out race benellis with 10-14 round tubes at a local shoot.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:21:40 PM EST
I even had a noob moment when I set the rifle on the table

Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:25:11 PM EST
Most people have a rifle and pistol that would be competitive in 3 gun competitions. Most people do not have a shotgun that would be competitive. If there was more two gun (no shotgun), there would be many more people interested.

I have found a major reason people don't get into competitions is the gear requirements. Most people don't want to invest in something to compete unless they are sure they are going to like it.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:29:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pepe-lepew:
Most people have a rifle and pistol that would be competitive in 3 gun competitions. Most people do not have a shotgun that would be competitive. If there was more two gun (no shotgun), there would be many more people interested.

I have found a major reason people don't get into competitions is the gear requirements. Most people don't want to invest in something to compete unless they are sure they are going to like it.
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I think the major reason is people are afraid to show the world their deficits.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:46:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
I think the major reason is people are afraid to show the world their deficits.
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
Originally Posted By pepe-lepew:
Most people have a rifle and pistol that would be competitive in 3 gun competitions. Most people do not have a shotgun that would be competitive. If there was more two gun (no shotgun), there would be many more people interested.

I have found a major reason people don't get into competitions is the gear requirements. Most people don't want to invest in something to compete unless they are sure they are going to like it.
I think the major reason is people are afraid to show the world their deficits.
I think a lot of people would like to get into the sport but there are a lot of white new balance wearing pricks that are so worried about the rules that the new guys give up.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:57:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
Just shoot 3 gun and stop sucking with a shotgun
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This is the correct answer.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 9:59:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:

I love shotguns but three gun shotguns have gotten retarded. The race handguns and rifles i can see being useful in real life but the shotguns are full derp.
View Quote
It's almost as if race guns are for racing or something...

Who knew?
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:03:16 PM EST
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:

I think a lot of people would like to get into the sport but there are a lot of white new balance wearing pricks that are so worried about the rules that the new guys give up.
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Most people I have seen getting into pistol sports, do it for the fun. Most of them know they will never be a master in steel or USPSA. They do however value personal skill over the gear race game. For example, USPSA has a big turnout for production and limited. Both classes can be done for relatively low cost compared to Open class.

I value consistent rules. I cringe when you get rule nazi's that scare off new shooters by yelling at them how they screw up. There is always ways to apply the rules with dignity and respect. Some people take it as a power trip and need to be pulled aside and talked to when they go over the line.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:04:31 PM EST
I never understood the shotgun portion of 3-gun. 2-gun with pistol and rifle/carbine would make more sense for any real world scenarios.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:05:30 PM EST
I would be more interested in 2 gun than 3 gun.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:09:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
Just shoot 3 gun and stop sucking with a shotgun
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Man up and learn the shotgun.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:10:24 PM EST
I have a rifle and pistol that would be suitable for entry level competition. I don't own any shotguns and don't want to spend money on even an inexpensive one.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:11:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NotanATFagent:

It was already decided that Gary, Indiana is the armpit of America.
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IMO Gary is the ass hole of America or at least the crotch area
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:14:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:


I think the major reason is people are afraid to show the world their deficits.
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Geez dude we get it. You shot three gun one time and you really liked it. OP clearly said he doesn't like shot guns which is perfectly fine. Why don't you just leave at that and go find somewhere to post that video of you doing dead lifts?
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:18:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:


I think the major reason is people are afraid to show the world their deficits.
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Or they just have no use for a shotgun outside of breaching.

Make the 3rd gun a grenade launcher and they might be on to something.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:19:40 PM EST
Both of my local shooting clubs do 3-gun style matches, 2-gun style matches, and pistol matches.

I feel you on thinking a lot of the guns are a bit over the top, but the beauty of the sport is, there are classes for folks that want to run duty-style weapons as well. And keep in mind, your average local shooter, probably isn't toting a $4000 benelli. I find some of the shotgun portions of stages to be the most fun. Only having 9 in the tube with 16 targets forces you to be good on your reloads and accurate. Plus a slug target thrown in sometimes for good measure tests your abilities at a bit further range.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:27:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:


I think the major reason is people are afraid to show the world their deficits.
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I shot 3 gun for about 5 years and quit when all of the quad load and other ridiculous shell caddies came into play. I still enjoy carbine matches.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:27:34 PM EST
Leave the gear war to the open shooters.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:30:23 PM EST
Florida Defensive Carbine Club is going on maybe 15 years here in NE Florida. It's 2 gun. I haven't shot it in a long time, but it is awesome.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:30:29 PM EST
Two gun exists because the 'competitor' types ruined 3 gun, but the shotgun in it worst of all. Made it all about points, with little about tactics or field conditions. But the shotgun turned into nothing but a 'Gear Race.'

I've done a bit of 'Action Pistol,' and some of 3 Gun. It's not what I hoped it would be. You get more points by running all the way up to the targets for headshots, vs keeping or adding distance. Unless that's not allowed. Everything 'gamey' that many really want to not happen has to be directly prohibited or the 'competitors' will game the shit out of it.

Idk, half way ruined for me over all.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 10:30:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Rickesis:

I shot 3 gun for about 5 years and quit when all of the quad load and other ridiculous shell caddies came into play. I still enjoy carbine matches.
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I think this is the beauty of local level matches. Nobody really cares if you're loading from quad caddies or a cargo pocket, a 5 round card on the stock, and your back pocket. You aren't gonna win most likely, but you will, without question, have fun. The amount of fun the guy in 1st place and the guy in 32nd place had are likely not related one bit to their place in the final scores.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 11:40:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CavScout8:
Two gun exists because the 'competitor' types ruined 3 gun, but the shotgun in it worst of all. Made it all about points, with little about tactics or field conditions. But the shotgun turned into nothing but a 'Gear Race.'

I've done a bit of 'Action Pistol,' and some of 3 Gun. It's not what I hoped it would be. You get more points by running all the way up to the targets for headshots, vs keeping or adding distance. Unless that's not allowed. Everything 'gamey' that many really want to not happen has to be directly prohibited or the 'competitors' will game the shit out of it.

Idk, half way ruined for me over all.
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So serious competitors being competitive in a competition ruined it for you?

Ok, then....
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 11:42:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
I even had a noob moment when I set the rifle on the table

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH5p2Df-F-k
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So I gotta ask.... What's with all the gear?

This may be the first time I've ever seen a pistol lanyard used in 3-Gun, ever.
Link Posted: 8/2/2017 11:53:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
So I gotta ask.... What's with all the gear?

This may be the first time I've ever seen a pistol lanyard used in 3-Gun, ever.
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
Originally Posted By 03RN:
I even had a noob moment when I set the rifle on the table

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH5p2Df-F-k
So I gotta ask.... What's with all the gear?

This may be the first time I've ever seen a pistol lanyard used in 3-Gun, ever.
He is Marin Core 

He thinks he did well but in reality the plates just saw the very large man with the 1911 and said "Fuck this!" and fell down 

I was hoping he'd stick the bayonet on the 20" tho 

Next time please! 
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:04:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:


I think the major reason is people are afraid to show the world their deficits.
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No. I just don't want to compete with fine tuned semi auto race guns that wouldn't last a day in the field and their retarded out of touch with reality methods of reloading. Fuck shotguns in competition.
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:25:27 AM EST
Yup 2 gun is a thing! Shooting the Wyoming Governor's Multigun match this weekend.

Competition Dynamics
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:28:44 AM EST
Range here in Jersey does .22lr two-gun. Sure there are more out there.
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:32:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
I just did my first 3 gun last weekend and got 5th out of 20.
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Some of us think a 20 round tube on a shotgun is gay
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:33:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:


So serious competitors being competitive in a competition ruined it for you?

Ok, then....
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It was originally meant to test actual combat skills. Civilians that needs a hardcore 'manly' hobby came along and took it over. Then to boost scores, they bought better and better gear instead of training with service type gear.

They will lighten up a trigger pull until it would be considered unsafe in ANY other use. They engage targets in scenarios, and treat them as they never would dream of in real life. It would be fine for a game, but them don't get confused between competition and real world, if that's what you consider as valuable.

The biggest failure of my local 'Action Pistol' matches is that there's no instructing/coach hardly. Most show up every week, never getting any better. Complete plateau. I get that it's not for that, but it's a compete wasted opportunity for supposed goal of building people's skills and interest.

Most of the people who seem to do the best, do some of the least coaching. Like they are hoarding the skill. They do recognize formal training though. They recognize my current structure ways, and inquire. SO they do know what 'right looks like.'
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:34:18 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mban2:


I should
Probably update my profile, I live in the country's armpit. Aka Columbus, GA
View Quote
Phenix City is worse
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:35:27 AM EST
All shotgun portions of 3-gun matches should simply be just racking the action, because the sound is all that matters  ...then back to pistol and carbine
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:36:47 AM EST
Nationally, the closest thing was the USCA, US Carbine Association that was started by the guys that did the Florida shoot. AFAIK, it's dead. I think it didn't get the crossover from existing 3-gunners to keep it going, IMO. So, I don't think a dedicated 2-gun sport is the solution.

But, having shot at Safariland Expedition, I now think having a 2-gun Division is the answer. Your existing 3-gun match stays the same, just add the 2-gun division. Shotgun, rifle, pistol, or PCC. Any of those 2 on any stage on any legal target. For match directors and stage designers, your match stays the same except no flying clays.
But, now, you have new shooters that can shoot it just with their rifle and pistol and experienced shooters like myself that will shoot it to allow me a choice of when I'd rather shoot my PCC than my shotgun. It opens up a lot of stage strategies.

I encourage all local match directors to please make it happen.
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 12:44:27 AM EST
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Originally Posted By tacocat:


Geez dude we get it. You shot three gun one time and you really liked it. OP clearly said he doesn't like shot guns which is perfectly fine. Why don't you just leave at that and go find somewhere to post that video of you doing dead lifts?
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Link Posted: 8/3/2017 1:13:17 AM EST
Yup. As mentioned, FNRL.
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 1:54:52 AM EST
 Also a lot of the good stuff in Wa is set up on a few facebook groups, not on forums, this one in particular (though lots of people lurk it.)


 Best bet is to hit ranges, ask around and get vouched into some of the local cliques.
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 5:30:33 AM EST
I've been shooting 3 gun for about 3 decades. I'm happy to see some local 2 gun matches popping up recently. I think they will bring in a lot more new competitors. I've never been crazy about the shotgun because it's about 10% shooting skill and 90% loading skill. I have a shotgun for home defense, but if I ever get attacked by a huge biker gang or a hoard of zombies I'm not going to reload the shotgun, I'm going to pick up a rifle or handgun and that's how 3-gun should be run imho. You shoot it dry and transition. Fortunately there has been a movement here recently to make paper targets rifle or pistol and steel pistol or shotgun which is a big improvement.
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 6:43:14 AM EST
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Originally Posted By tacocat:
Geez dude we get it. You shot three gun one time and you really liked it. OP clearly said he doesn't like shot guns which is perfectly fine. Why don't you just leave at that and go find somewhere to post that video of you doing dead lifts?
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Originally Posted By tacocat:
Originally Posted By 03RN:


I think the major reason is people are afraid to show the world their deficits.
Geez dude we get it. You shot three gun one time and you really liked it. OP clearly said he doesn't like shot guns which is perfectly fine. Why don't you just leave at that and go find somewhere to post that video of you doing dead lifts?
Triggered much?

Start a farm strength thread, I'll be around shortly.
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 6:45:57 AM EST
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:

I love shotguns but three gun shotguns have gotten retarded. The race handguns and rifles i can see being useful in real life but the shotguns are full derp.
View Quote
Why? They are better.
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