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Posted: 10/20/2013 3:05:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2013 3:06:51 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:06:46 PM EST



in for the answer.


Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:06:54 PM EST
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:06:58 PM EST
Pistol! got for it!
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:07:24 PM EST
good luck with that
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:07:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:08:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:09:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.
View Quote

I don't think that's a pistol grip.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:09:10 PM EST
thigh gap is 18" I think, will have to measure
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:09:20 PM EST
If it's over 26" OAL, and the barrel is a smoothbore, it's kosher.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:09:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2013 3:12:01 PM EST by EffingThirteener]
Redacted upon further information. Seems like a neat trick, but I don't think I want to try it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:09:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.
View Quote


If it's a smoothbore, it would likely be considered a "smoothbore pistol" and hence an AOW. If the barrel were longer, it would likely fall into the amorphous title I category of "it's a normal firearm but not a rifle, shotgun, or pistol".

If it's rifled... it might just be considered a pistol and be gtg.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:09:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:10:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:10:18 PM EST
Heh.

I was just reading another thread where people were discussing some ridiculous stocks used to skirt CA law or something and was just thinking how silly we must look if our founders could see us now.


Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:10:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:10:59 PM EST
Maybe, if the overall length is over 26" but the barrel is less than 18" AND it has never had a stock, someone effectively tricked the ATF in to admitting that such a gun is a "firearm" not a pistol/handgun or a rifle/shotgun. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the test case, but people are taking advantage of the ATFs admittion.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:11:05 PM EST
Her shirt reads "Senior 04", so yes, legal!
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:11:33 PM EST
That is a AOW
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:12:33 PM EST
I think if it's over 26" OAL and a virgin receiver it's considered a "firearm" and not a SBS as far as NFA goes.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:12:38 PM EST
Somebody's dag is gonna be shot.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:12:40 PM EST
Is this person located in NY state?
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:12:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2013 3:14:20 PM EST by groovyrascal]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brboyer:

I don't think that's a pistol grip.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brboyer:
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.

I don't think that's a pistol grip.


Doesn't matter. Smooth bore has to have an 18" bbl in any configuration. Or get a stamp.

I seem to recall a few years back someone got a smooth bore smith revolver. Factory mistake and they had to either get it registered as an AOW or SBS or return it to s&w for a new bbl.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:12:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2013 3:15:28 PM EST by GUNZERKER]
It's Legal



ETA: Beat. Still want one
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:13:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2013 3:17:34 PM EST by DontBuryMe]
Yup, AOW. Looks like the 14" model that Mossberg manufactures.

Edited for a herpin' and a derpin'.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:13:55 PM EST
if its legal then my factory pistol grip mossberg 500 is getting a furniture change
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:14:05 PM EST
I wouldn't trust an ATF "you know what" to be very discerning regarding the details of your interpretation.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:14:12 PM EST
It's not a shotgun so it's legal.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:14:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.
View Quote


Negative. Shotgun is legal.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:14:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2013 3:17:13 PM EST by stonedv8]
One would think if that was legal you would see them for sale either on gunbroker or gun stores or the like.

With the way the Serbu's draw attention being an AOW and requiring a stamp, this would be a good way to circumvent a stamp/ATF involvement and still have a nice little beater trunk/truck gun IMO.

I'm in the thread to find out more, pending some actual factual evidence per Some ATF rules quoting, I would like to build me one.

****ninja edit! now seeing the above website, it seems there is some clarification***
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:14:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Freebeer:
if its legal then my factory pistol grip mossberg 500 is getting a furniture change
View Quote

Do it just don't post pictures.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:14:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:


Doesn't matter. Smooth bore has to have an 18" bbl in any configuration. No. Or get a stamp.

I seem to recall a few years back someone got a smooth bore smith revolver. Factory mistake and they had to either get it registered as an AOW or SBS or return it to s&w for a new bbl.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:
Originally Posted By brboyer:
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.

I don't think that's a pistol grip.


Doesn't matter. Smooth bore has to have an 18" bbl in any configuration. No. Or get a stamp.

I seem to recall a few years back someone got a smooth bore smith revolver. Factory mistake and they had to either get it registered as an AOW or SBS or return it to s&w for a new bbl.

Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:15 PM EST
That is an AOW if built on a virgin receiver.

26 USC 5845(e) Any other weapon

The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

That can be transferred to an individual (State dependent) on a Form 4 from an 02 FFL for $5 as an AOW.

IF you build it on a virgin receiver as an AOW, you need to pay $200 and put it on a Form 1.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gmtmaster:


Negative. Shotgun is legal.
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Originally Posted By gmtmaster:
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.


Negative. Shotgun is legal.


Doesn't it need a stamp is the bbl is under 18"?
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:19 PM EST
Who cares.

The real question is:

Is SHE legal?
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GUNZERKER:
It's Legal

http://Shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

View Quote


Yep, this.

Forgot about the OAL exempting it from AOW status.

Still, would probably draw questions if ever stopped by not-so-friendly LEOs and may not be legal under state laws.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:24 PM EST
Its not a "shotgun."

if its over 26" its not an AOW either. Its just a "firearm"

its even california legal IIRC.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:43 PM EST
yes sir captain obvious sir
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:48 PM EST
To be legal it has to be a "firearm" meaning it isnt a shotgun or pistol or rifle per ATF. 18 inch rule applies to shotgun only.........that gun is a firearm by definition..

as long as overall length is 26.1 inches or more it is kosher and there is an ATF letter floating around specifically stating this fact.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:15:58 PM EST
AOW
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:16:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shotar:
If the barrel is rifled, it's a handgun, if it is unrifled, and under 18", it must be registered as an AOW, ( any other weapon) under the NFA.
View Quote


unless its 26" long.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:17:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2013 3:18:34 PM EST by Danj]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By nicholasgentges:
That is a AOW
http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

manufacturer claims no, I don't buy it either but I have never read up on this stuff as it would be illegal in NY anyway
Couldn't it be put on a pistol permit?

Eta: I think maybe not.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:17:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Walkure:


If it's a smoothbore, it would likely be considered a "smoothbore pistol" and hence an AOW. If the barrel were longer, it would likely fall into the amorphous title I category of "it's a normal firearm but not a rifle, shotgun, or pistol".

If it's rifled... it might just be considered a pistol and be gtg.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Walkure:
Originally Posted By groovyrascal:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.


If it's a smoothbore, it would likely be considered a "smoothbore pistol" and hence an AOW. If the barrel were longer, it would likely fall into the amorphous title I category of "it's a normal firearm but not a rifle, shotgun, or pistol".

If it's rifled... it might just be considered a pistol and be gtg.


Its not a pistol because it is not designed or intended to be fired with one hand.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:19:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ObsoleteMan:
Her shirt reads "Senior 04", so yes, legal!
View Quote


That's the same shirt my senior class had in 2004. I don't recognize her though ....
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:19:58 PM EST

Its not a pistol because it is not designed or intended to be fired with one hand.


This x1000
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:19:58 PM EST
congratulations, you guys have completely confused me
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:20:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By para_frame:
Maybe, if the overall length is over 26" but the barrel is less than 18" AND it has never had a stock, someone effectively tricked the ATF in to admitting that such a gun is a "firearm" not a pistol/handgun or a rifle/shotgun. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the test case, but people are taking advantage of the ATFs admittion.
View Quote


Yep. becomming pretty common actually. especially now that pistol grip 870's are readily available and not limited to the Mossberg 500 PG as the starting point.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:20:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nicholasgentges:
That is a AOW
View Quote


Why?
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 3:20:25 PM EST
If it never had a stock.
If it's over 26".
If it's not concealed.
If it's smooth bore.

It might be legal. Depends on you local laws.
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