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Posted: 5/13/2004 9:29:02 AM EST
Guards made porn pics & tapes of themselves in the prison, in front of the prisoners.


So, how are the morons of the left going to continue arguing that the abuse of the prisoners was part of a systematic plan, now that we know that the abuse was part of a fairly scummy sexual escapade?
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 9:33:42 AM EST
Who actually believed that Englands story was remotly true to begin with. That takes a pretty big leap of faith for me.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 9:40:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 9:40:46 AM EST by Va_Dinger]
Come on guys, its tough to defend people who perform these types of sick acts. No matter who the victim is, some of this crap is dam disgusting. If it was an American jail the sick bitch would be in jail already. I know what the Islamic bastards have done to some Americans is bad, but we can't defend scumbags like these people.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 9:49:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 9:50:28 AM EST by eodtech2000]
I said last week she was a barracks ho, looks like my characterization of her was pretty accurate. The movies don't surprise me either, when I was in the Army at K Quad Schofield Barracks, several "barracks" movies made their rounds about the battalion. Usually a Pac clerk was the star!
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 9:51:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Guards made porn pics & tapes of themselves in the prison, in front of the prisoners.


So, how are the morons of the left going to continue arguing that the abuse of the prisoners was part of a systematic plan, now that we know that the abuse was part of a fairly scummy sexual escapade?



Well, I'm not saying anything one way or another, but a caller on Rush today gave some insight that I find a little interesting.

The caller, name Irene, claims to have grown up in Israel and says that she knows a lot about muslim culture. She said that from knowing many muslims around her that they are fanatical and don't fear death. Because of that, it is very difficult to make them talk. She said that if you want to get a muslim to talk, the best way to do that is to humiliate them. Nakedness is very humiliating for them and so is picture taking. Combine the two and you've got some really humiliating things to make them go through. Make them simulate sex acts and now you've begun to humiliate them even further.

Now, I don't know if this is really true or not, but it does make you wonder that exactly what she said is what was done in the prison. I guess it's a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg? If this really is the way to get islamic extremists to crack, then don't you find it odd that this is exactly the way in which they were "abused"? Seems that a higher up, who had interrogation tactics specifically for dealing with islamic extremists must have been giving the orders.

Notice the quotes, if this is the only way to get them to talk, and getting them to talk would save American lives then I don't consider it abuse at all and what was done to them was justified. However, if this was merely just US soldiers doing things to prisoners for fun, then I think that's sick and twisted and they should be punished.

Either way, I don't think any "higher ups" should be court marshaled. They either were doing their job right or weren't involved. Some "higher up" will sadly have to be the fall guy though. Thanks to the anti-american extemist democrats in congress.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 9:55:23 AM EST
again, how in the WORLD did they think taking PHOTOS would be a good idea???
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 9:58:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By jblachly:
again, how in the WORLD did they think taking PHOTOS would be a good idea???



I think its easy to see by the photos that their not a very "bright" bunch of people.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:00:06 AM EST
Well, that certainly puts a different spin on it.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:01:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By jblachly:
again, how in the WORLD did they think taking PHOTOS would be a good idea???



Read my above post. If taking photos is something that humiliates them and makes them talk then that is probably why they did it. I don't know enough about what makes muslims talk or enough about what happened in that prison to say this is fact or anything. I'm just throwing out a possibility here.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:04:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By jblachly:
again, how in the WORLD did they think taking PHOTOS would be a good idea???



Read my above post. If taking photos is something that humiliates them and makes them talk then that is probably why they did it. I don't know enough about what makes muslims talk or enough about what happened in that prison to say this is fact or anything. I'm just throwing out a possibility here.



So why not use a camera WITHOUT film? This means these morons actually paid money for development.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:05:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By jblachly:
again, how in the WORLD did they think taking PHOTOS would be a good idea???



Read my above post. If taking photos is something that humiliates them and makes them talk then that is probably why they did it. I don't know enough about what makes muslims talk or enough about what happened in that prison to say this is fact or anything. I'm just throwing out a possibility here.



How does that explain the sex video's?
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:06:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 10:06:56 AM EST by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By crurifragium:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By jblachly:
again, how in the WORLD did they think taking PHOTOS would be a good idea???



Read my above post. If taking photos is something that humiliates them and makes them talk then that is probably why they did it. I don't know enough about what makes muslims talk or enough about what happened in that prison to say this is fact or anything. I'm just throwing out a possibility here.



So why not use a camera WITHOUT film? This means these morons actually paid money for development.



I didn't know it was a film camera. They weren't digital? Either way, I think the point is that the muslims supposedly hate to have their picture taken and SHOWN to them (I forgot and left that out above). So, that means that they'd have to print the picture out or develop film. I think it makes it especially humiliating that the pictures were not only of them, but the fact that they were naked and doing sex acts.

The sex videos fall under this same scenario. They probably made the videos to play back to the prisoners to break them.

Again, just speculating here.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:12:07 AM EST
This sounds really hot.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:14:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

The sex videos fall under this same scenario. They probably made the videos to play back to the prisoners to break them.




"Tell me where Abdullah stays, or I'll show you a video of a homely chick sucking my cock" I think not.

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:16:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Come on guys, its tough to defend people who perform these types of sick acts. No matter who the victim is, some of this crap is dam disgusting. If it was an American jail the sick bitch would be in jail already. I know what the Islamic bastards have done to some Americans is bad, but we can't defend scumbags like these people.




I agree. This kind of stuff happens in prisons here in the United States every day.




-LS
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:17:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

The sex videos fall under this same scenario. They probably made the videos to play back to the prisoners to break them.




"Tell me where Abdullah stays, or I'll show you a video of a homely chick sucking my cock" I think not.




Ok, I assumed by sex videos you meant sex videos of the prisoners. Since I haven't seen the videos I don't know what they are of. If they are of US military doing it to US military, then yes that doesn't make any sense. Anyway, it was just a thought. I'm not saying I was necessarily right.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:17:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By longshot_va:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Come on guys, its tough to defend people who perform these types of sick acts. No matter who the victim is, some of this crap is dam disgusting. If it was an American jail the sick bitch would be in jail already. I know what the Islamic bastards have done to some Americans is bad, but we can't defend scumbags like these people.




I agree. This kind of stuff happens in prisons here in the United States every day.




-LS



That in itself is sad.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:17:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By 762mmMAN:
This sounds really hot.





You should get elected to Congress. Then you could get to watch that stuff all day AND get paid for their time!!!!


-LS
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:20:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:20:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 10:21:29 AM EST by NewbHunter]
I do find this portion of that article to be quite ironic though:


Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who also characterized the photos as "disgusting," agreed, noting, "It's hard to believe that this actually is taking place in a military facility."


Especially coming from Diane Feinstein who's OWN STATE has much more graphic and sexually perverse porno legally filmed and taking place in her own state than probably any other state in the country.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:21:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:23:41 AM EST
Well that might not make the prisoner talk but the threat of having his picture of him engaged in mock gay sex posted in his village might be persuading...
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:25:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:27:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 10:27:54 AM EST by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By shotar:
If however they were engaged in psychological warfare and the intent was to humiliate the islamic terrorists into compliance, even if photos were taken in a " Talk " or will distribute the photo of the infidel woman as your master " sort of way, then I could not only condone but encourage the actions. The real criminal is the one who actually released the photos. Therefore its not the act perhaps that is right or wrong, but the reason for the act.




The linked story indicates that the trove of photos and videos in which the abuse of Iraqis is depicted includes photos of the guards performing various solo and group activities not involving the prisoners, but sometimes taking place in the presence of the prisoners. So again, is this an interrogation technique?

"Talk, or we'll show you pictures of Americans screwing." "Give it up, or my buddies and I will fuck each other again."
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:44:54 AM EST
Things must get REALLY BORING over there to let "Lynndie England" ride your Pony!!!.....
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:46:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
According to our former president, and many here.....it was just sex right? That makes it a private matter between the individuals and their spouses right and no concern of ours or the publics, right?

Heck, I thought lots of kinky porn pics and vids were right up the ally of two thirds of the members of this board alone.



Well...that all depends on what your definition of the word IS is
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:50:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 10:51:23 AM EST by Cincinnatus]
Yes, no doubt it was a joint CIA/Maryland National Guard, Top Secret Interrogation Plan.
All created by Cheney and Rumsfeld in Dick's underground laboratory.
Here's the plan:

1) Chem Lights up the Iraqis' butts (Dick's idea).
2) Then you get all of the fat, undisciplined Maryland National Guardsmen to mastubate and have sex with each other, and FILM IT!
3) and then, well hmmmm...... I don't know.

The plan just sort of fizzles there.
It's a work in progress.

<­BR>

Perhap­s, JUST perhaps this is simply a case of a bunch of unsat, undisciplined Army reservists, acting like the unsat, undisciplined trash that they appear to be, along with a total lack of NCO and Officer leadership.
Perhaps.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:53:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:54:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:55:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 10:58:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
I do find this portion of that article to be quite ironic though:


Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who also characterized the photos as "disgusting," agreed, noting, "It's hard to believe that this actually is taking place in a military facility."


Especially coming from Diane Feinstein who's OWN STATE has much more graphic and sexually perverse porno legally filmed and taking place in her own state than probably any other state in the country.




Particularly since she's one of the Kunts who want the military to have even more MOS's open to women.

I'll bet a lot of ex-GI's said or thought "Barracks Ho" when they saw the pic of that PFC. What kind of fucked up chain of command was that?

Oh yeah, they relieved the General already. What was her name again?
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 11:02:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 11:07:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 11:08:37 AM EST by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By Paul:
Back to the topic - if photographs were taken they should have been taken by official Army photographers using military equipment not by a bunch of yahoos with their little digital snap shot cameras. Command policy there should be like it is here at my command - no personal cameras allowed without the written consent of the security manager and commanding officer.



Oh, that surely would stop them from using their own cameras. Anybody who has spent any time in the military knows that stops nobody.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 11:38:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By longshot_va:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Come on guys, its tough to defend people who perform these types of sick acts. No matter who the victim is, some of this crap is dam disgusting. If it was an American jail the sick bitch would be in jail already. I know what the Islamic bastards have done to some Americans is bad, but we can't defend scumbags like these people.




I agree. This kind of stuff happens in prisons here in the United States every day.




-LS



That in itself is sad.




So when are the Senate hearing to investigate this outrage????

-LS
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 11:41:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 11:43:01 AM EST by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By longshot_va:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By longshot_va:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Come on guys, its tough to defend people who perform these types of sick acts. No matter who the victim is, some of this crap is dam disgusting. If it was an American jail the sick bitch would be in jail already. I know what the Islamic bastards have done to some Americans is bad, but we can't defend scumbags like these people.




I agree. This kind of stuff happens in prisons here in the United States every day.




-LS



That in itself is sad.




So when are the Senate hearing to investigate this outrage????

-LS



Exactly, it seems that congress immediately scrambles to set up a sanctioned meeting to watch porn these days, but they could care less when one of our own gets his head slowly and brutally sawn off. They could also care less about prisoner abuse in our own prisons. Why? Well, because they're prisoners dummy! You're not supposed to care what happens to prisoners because they deserve it right?
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 11:59:03 AM EST
Why not just get the prisoners drunk? Or at lest threaten to get them drunk?



...or would that be considered a waist of good booze?
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 12:32:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 12:37:53 PM EST by AR15fan]
I was telling people a week ago that this was about sexual kinks, not intelligence gathering. The National Guardsmen and Reservist got board with fvcking eachother, so they started fvcking with the prisoners too. Including forcing them to perform sex acts on eachother, rape, and forceable sodomy.

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 12:54:11 PM EST
See what happens when "Normal Americans"start hanging out with all those Iraqi whackos in prison. You get the "I was a whore in a moslem prison porn."

Relax we will all be able to see it on the internet in a couple of weeks.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 1:10:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By TUMOR:
Things must get REALLY BORING over there to let "Lynndie England" ride your Pony!!!.....



Yikes, Pamela Anderson she's not.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:58:59 PM EST




"Tell me where Abdullah stays, or I'll show you a video of a homely chick sucking my cock" I think not.





"Talk, or we'll show you pictures of Americans screwing." "Give it up, or my buddies and I will fuck each other again."


LMFAO
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:03:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:05:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By TUMOR:
Things must get REALLY BORING over there to let "Lynndie England" ride your Pony!!!.....



Boring? Hell I would have to be much worse off than bored. Sex with Lynndie England borders on beastiality. I can see how it would be such a traumatic experience for those prisoners to witness.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:12:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
24.123.69.58/images/lydeng.jpg



MOTHER OF GOD!

MAKE IT STOP!

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:23:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 4:25:05 PM EST by Hank_Rearden1]
(sarcastic voice)

So what's the big deal... I thought liberals love free non-consequential sex and that everyone should be able to do it with one another and film it without being harassed... isn't this what teachers in our public school shows and teach our kids-- COME ON (Ted Kennedy voice) -- how can anyone be ashamed of putting nude men prisoners together and making them blow one another... what's wrong with you, gay sex and pornography is pure and beautiful, free speech... why should anyone be embarrased by any this.

(Sarcastic, fat, drunken, lying- Ted Kennedy voice turned off)



Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:10:31 PM EST
I tend to agree with Cincinattus. The following may also be factors to consider:

1. Failure of the senior NCO corp and weak command leadership in the MP unit.
2. Fuzzy chain of command, troops not really knowing who is in charge or who is calling the shots (see #1)
3. A military culture that tells you to only follow direct lawfull orders; but encourages and rewards thinking outside the box, personal initiative, having a can-do attitude, and sometimes even blind damn obedience.

Combine all this with the loose rules associated with the CIA, FBI, and contractor "spooks", the urgency of war, and the haste in which the program was established and it was an accident waiting to happen.

I'm not going to jump to too many conclusions yet. Last I heard on the news, the kinky sex sessions were being downplayed as either overblown (pardon the pun) or only one isolated incident. Gen Taguda, who did the investigation, had praise for two particular units who ran tight prisons. PFC Englands unit was the worst, leadership wise.

Back in Vietnam (My Lai), Lt Calley ended up taking the brunt of the blame for that, not the individual trigger pullers. I think in this situation, with what I currenlt know, the blame should be placed squarely on the commanders Karpinskis shoulders.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:32:32 PM EST
One of the Iraqi "victims" has said to the press that he was never interogated. They were roused out of their cells in the middle of the night and forced to participate on the margins of a sex orgy.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 6:07:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 6:12:30 PM EST by muddydog]
they are doing the same thing with cuban whores at GITMO..

i hate to say it..but

if its causing the JAWAS to break...sobeit..

i like PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE....

if it was done purely as a deed for the servicemen and gal...then HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM...

++++EDITED....
my god...i just saw that pic of her..

that takes cake..

sort of a throwback to the CRO-MAGNON era..

especially since i've been watching some of the discovery channels new stuff..about prehistoric man.

truly a beast...
no man should have ever touched that..not even in a prison environment..
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 7:02:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By muddydog:
they are doing the same thing with cuban whores at GITMO..




I can tell you with great emphasis that we did nothing of the kind. No sex shows, no torture, no nude gay orgies.

Sorry to burst that bubble.

As for these used buttplugs, the quicker they are in a prison uniform of their own the better.

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 7:11:14 PM EST
They're folllowing orders from command. Command got their orders from spook interrogators.


Example: "Hey, make Apu's night real hard, were gonna ask him some questions tomorrow. Oh, and BTW, he shot a Corporal last week."

Combine that with little to no proper supervision and you wind up with chemlites in Iraqi ass.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 3:18:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 3:29:47 AM EST by Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
They're folllowing orders from command. Command got their orders from spook interrogators.


Example: "Hey, make Apu's night real hard, were gonna ask him some questions tomorrow. Oh, and BTW, he shot a Corporal last week."

Combine that with little to no proper supervision and you wind up with chemlites in Iraqi ass.


...and I suppose Private England interpretted these orders to mean:
Act like a whore, have sex with multiple partners in front of the prisoners, and film it?????

Yeah, sure.

She did that because she was ordered to do it, uh huh.
Not because she's just a skanky West Virginian Trailer Park, barracks Ho.
No, couldn't be that.

And IF these orders came from the CIA, then wasn't this a Top Secret operation?
Their lame defense means that the pictures they took and then spread around, are evidence of Criminal OpSec violations, and perhaps even espionage.

I think her lawyers would be wise, if they just admitted the truth.
She's a Hick Skank, dumb as a rock, and couldn't help herself.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 3:21:05 AM EST
You can thank Klinton for opening the doors for fuck-ups like these clown shoes.
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